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Over on Reddit I've been doing a number of gameplay analysis posts on varies topics. So I'd thought to link them here so anyone who doesn't go on Reddit or does and missed the posts have a chance to see them and potentially benefit from them

Heads up some general assumptions made in all the posts is that the game is played on HM without a lot of grinding.

Ram Village Mages - A look at Tobin, Faye and Kliff as Mages and their effectiveness.

Item Merchants - An analysis of what items you should pass between routes.

The Villager Atlas - Looking into all the promotion options of Atlas and his performance in each class

Forging - Going over all the options the player has for forging

Weapon Skill - Reviewing the more relevant and useful weapon arts for the main game.

Leveling Clerics - Understanding how far a player should actively level their healers.

The Villager Tobin - Taking a crack at analyzing all Tobin's promotion options.

Lion Well Boosts - Some recommendations on how to use the free Lion Well boosts.

The Villager Faye - Analyzing  all of Faye's promotion options.

The Villager Kliff - A review of Kliff's promotion options and his effectiveness in each class.

Sonya vs Dean - Comparing the two units you have to choose between

 

Those are all I have done so far. I'll link more as I make them which is probably about 1 a day until the Western release. Hope these have been helpful to some of you!

Edited by Shephen

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Thought I recognized that username.

I'm rolling "canon classes" for all the Villagers anyways. 

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5 hours ago, Shephen said:

Over on Reddit I've been doing a number of gameplay analysis posts on varies topics. So I'd thought to link them here so anyone who doesn't go on Reddit or does and missed the posts have a chance to see them and potentially benefit from them

Heads up some general assumptions made in all the posts is that the game is played on HM without a lot of grinding.

Ram Village Mages - A look at Tobin, Faye and Kliff as Mages and their effectiveness.

Item Merchants - An analysis of what items you should pass between routes.

The Villager Atlas - Looking into all the promotion options of Atlas and his performance in each class

 

Those are all I have done so far. I'll link more as I make them which is probably about 1 a day until the Western release. Hope these have been helpful to some of you!

Hm, that take on the Villagers is really interesting! It's nice to hear about actual in-game functionality rather than just on-paper theorizing or basing Echoes on Gaiden while ignoring the new mechanics, namely the higher difficulties.

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4 hours ago, Wayward Alchemist said:

Hm, that take on the Villagers is really interesting! It's nice to hear about actual in-game functionality rather than just on-paper theorizing or basing Echoes on Gaiden while ignoring the new mechanics, namely the higher difficulties.

Yeah the boosted HM enemy stats, changed exp gain, growth changes, and introduction of forging does change the dynamic of the game a lot from the original Gaiden. Mage!Kliff is an example of something that really falls apart when you start matching it up to HM enemy stats and the drop in effectiveness as the game progresses as other units get much better.

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3 minutes ago, Shephen said:

Double post, but I have new analysis up. This one is on forging in SoV

Hope you enjoy

Are you going to do an article about weapon skills? I am really curious about what weapons I should give units. Should physical units hold on to only one kind of weapon for the entire game considering that skills are tied to weapons only. 

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3 minutes ago, Leif said:

Are you going to do an article about weapon skills? I am really curious about what weapons I should give units. Should physical units hold on to only one kind of weapon for the entire game considering that skills are tied to weapons only. 

I can do an analysis on the good weapon skills and their use in a playthrough. Skills are only a relatively minor thing to combat aside from Twin Lions or Hunter Volley, so they shouldn't deter you from changing equipment on physical units. Most of a weapon's use comes from its normal combat, with the skills just being a bonus.

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1 minute ago, Shephen said:

I can do an analysis on the good weapon skills and their use in a playthrough. Skills are only a relatively minor thing to combat aside from Twin Lions or Hunter Volley, so they shouldn't deter you from changing equipment on physical units. Most of a weapon's use comes from its normal combat, with the skills just being a bonus.

Yeah, i did hear that Skills aren't really needed in this game, but they are nice to have, and are useful for when you're struggling to kill an enemy.

I will say i prefer Echoes' method of Skill use over how Skills are used in previous games. It's nice having the choice of when and where to use your Skills, as opposed to it just being RNG-based.

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Does it take a relatively long time to master weapon skills? I don't like how skills are greyed out in the UI when you don't have a particular weapon equipped, because I think it looks rather ugly. I want to give a particular character a set weapon, like Mathilda with a forged Ridersbane, and have them rely on it for the majority of the game. 

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This is going to be veeery useful when I get the game, thank you so much!

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@Shephen, sorry to add to the bombardment of questions, but how does Luthier preform in HM with his base stats? If I remember correctly they were already questionable by Gaiden's standards. On a similar note, is Python usable enough in HM?

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Luthier is perfectly fine on HM since he has Excalibur. Python is good, but he sucks in that period from his join until Sniper promo at the Forest Shrine. If you look around at my submission history on Reddit you could probably find the tier list I made for HM.

Edited by Shephen

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20 minutes ago, Shephen said:

Luthier is perfectly fine on HM since he has Excalibur. Python is good, but he sucks in that period from his join until Sniper promo at the Forest Shrine. If you look around at my submission history on Reddit you could probably find the tier list I made for HM.

One question on the tier list, what makes Forsyth so terrible? He's better than Lukas in just about every stat, I think he has less Def and Skl but more in almost everything else.

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11 minutes ago, Wayward Alchemist said:

One question on the tier list, what makes Forsyth so terrible? He's better than Lukas in just about every stat, I think he has less Def and Skl but more in almost everything else.

I think I can answer that: Lukas should already be promoted by the time he joins (as a level 5 soldier), and Baron's not a good enough class that you need two of.

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17 minutes ago, Wayward Alchemist said:

One question on the tier list, what makes Forsyth so terrible? He's better than Lukas in just about every stat, I think he has less Def and Skl but more in almost everything else.

Lukas has better availability and will most likely be promoted by Forsyth's join. So Forysth is stuck playing catch up to Lukas at the point when Lukas is starting lose usefulness due to things such as Clair, Mathilda, Alm and Myrm!Gray. Soldier is also just a bad class due to the 4 move and you'll never need more than Lukas for a tank if you need one at all.

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Do you have any possible guides on who to use your 2 villager forks on? Just curious on your thoughts

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It's this one, right?

I think my Catria actually got super blessed, because she ended up with the same Str Palla has by endgame, and my Palla got a little bit Speed screwed. But I can definitely see why Palla is rated better; her bulk is more important since dodge tanking is pretty much non-existent in this game, and her Speed should have been good enough to double the important things.

Is Delthea really that bad? I find that all she needs is a Speed Ring, and she's getting a lot of kills with Aura on the Paladins thrown around on Alm side. It also patches up her 4 Mov problem. Admittedly, she needs the optional encounters at the Fear Shrine to actually get enough levels to promote, but I found her firepower to be quite high even without promotion. She doesn't really need Excalibur when she's doubling with Aura imo, though the lack of Thunder or Arrow is annoying. She also basically has no Enemy Phase until promotion, and even then it's rough. But overall, I think she's an Est-type that's actually usable because of low Res enemies.

Also, unrelated to the list, but Chapter 6 Delthea is probably one of the best things.

On the other hand, Est herself needs so much babying, with that low Str and generally poor bases. She IS in the Peg line, so there's a limit to how bad she can be, but if Delthea is that low, I don't see any reason why Est should be higher up on the list.

Is Silque really that great? I had a lot of trouble using her, with the biggest problem being that Cleric!Faye completely steals most of Silque's EXP with Physics; why retreat to a 4 Mov healer when Faye has basically infinite range, especially with her high Atk growth? Warp is really good, but not only did it get nerfed, but Silque's shaky Atk growth hurt her Warp range even more. By the time I actually got Silque to promote, I was really close to getting Tatiana. Tatiana's Physics stole even more EXP from Silque, allowing Tatiana to get Warp and almost completely invalidating Silque. Tatiana has Fortify too, which is pretty important imo since Mega Quake happens more often than in OG Gaiden. I would personally have Silque switch places with Faye, unless Faye's other class options are also being factored into her placing; then the two would be in the same tier.

I personally found Clive to be even more useless than Lukas. He's so... average. He doesn't do well enough in the tanking department while Lukas is eating everything head on in Chapter 1 and early Chapter 3, and his low Spd combined with Horseslayer's weight just completely prevented him from getting kills. His Str is just okay, but again Lukas' is higher. When Lukas started falling off (which is about the time I got Mathilda iirc), Clair was starting to pick up, and Mathilda is Mathilda. I think Lukas' strong Chapter 1 contributions (but relatively little later on) are worth more than Clive's trickle of contribution spread out across the campaign.

Other than that, I think I agree with this list.

Edited by SatsumaFSoysoy

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4 minutes ago, Tsak said:

Do you have any possible guides on who to use your 2 villager forks on? Just curious on your thoughts

Don't have any and don't plan to make any for it mostly because I don't like since you basically need to grind or back track for it to be effective which I don't really like. Only recommendation I would make would be to give it Mae and give her the 3 Str so she could orko bandits after 1 Str proc and you can get a Falco/Paladin at the end of chapter 2 which is lol.

 

14 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Text

That is my list. Didn't post it here because I knew it would derail the thread as it appears to be doing so. But I'll respond to some of your points. Delthea just joins so late and you could give the Speed Ring to any mages or Tatiana(so she can get her white spells faster) and they would do the same thing as Delthea but better since they'd have much better bulk(or utility in Tatiana's case). Delthea just doesn't do anything special really. Silque has Warp which is really amazing. She gets it at lvl 7 1 level after Faye gets Physics so Faye dosen't really cut into Silque's growth much. Since she has warp she has the best claim to the 3 Atk boosts at Deliverance an she can have the Lyon shield passed over to increase her range. Warp is just really amazing even after the nerfs. Clives movement and Paladins stats are good and allow him to fight more than Lukas who can't make it to most action without a warp or rescue except in dungeons.

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Ah so you're all about efficiency and speed etc. I can dig it, I agree with most of your points in that regard. I can see Saber just being useful the whole game with no downtime. Same with Alm

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Meanwhile, this tier list means literally nothing to me, since i tend to use units based on whether i like them as characters, and since i'm liking all the playable characters in this game, everyone will have a chance to shine. So even if Forsyth is the worst character gameplay-wise, i'll probably find a way to make him good.

 

That being said, whenever i look at tier-lists of any kind, i usually use them as reference points so i can plan ahead on how to make the worst characters good, so thanks for the list.

Edited by Armagon

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7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

That being said, whenever i look at tier-lists of any kind, i usually use them as reference points so i can plan ahead on how to make the worst characters good, so thanks for the list.

That is one of the reasons I made the list. I said in the opening of the post, "This is meant for players unfamiliar with the game or would like an idea of the units. So use it as like a gist of the units and their performance in the game."

Glad you find it useful.

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8 minutes ago, Shephen said:

That is one of the reasons I made the list. I said in the opening of the post, "This is meant for players unfamiliar with the game or would like an idea of the units. So use it as like a gist of the units and their performance in the game."

Glad you find it useful.

I do have a question tho. In the opening of the tier list, you say "There is no crossing over aside from Faye and Kliff on Celica's side, who would be really bad if done so, which is pretty meaningless." Why is that? I feel like, particularly in the case of Faye, crossing her over to Celica's side can be useful, because you can make Faye a Cleric and Celica's side only has one Cleric in the form of Genny, so it'll be nice having two Clerics early on.

This is something i'll probably do in an eventual playthrough (so not my first playthrough) so i want to know what i'll be getting myself into.

I haven't thought about what i'd do if i cross over Kliff to Celica's side tho.

Edited by Armagon

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Just now, Armagon said:

I do have a question tho. In the opening of the tier list, you say "There is no crossing over aside from Faye and Kliff on Celica's side, who would be really bad if done so, which is pretty meaningless." Why is that? I feel like, particularly in the case of Faye, crossing her over to Celica's side can be useful, because you can make Faye a Cleric and Celica's side only has one Cleric in the form of Genny, so it'll be nice having two Clerics early on.

This is something i'll probably do in an eventual playthrough (so not my first playthrough) so i want to know what i'll be getting myself into.

I haven't thought about what i'd do if i cross over Kliff to Celica's side tho.

Faye would be super underleveled at that point and her stats would be really bad making her a liability for the most part. Genny is fine as a sole cleric on Celica's route since she can either use Invoke or Physics to get out of most situations. Celica also gets recover fairly early for the heals, a lot of equipment the army has gives passive recovery, and there is Nomah and promoted Mae/Boey for some more heals. Faye is more useful as a Cleric on Alm's side helping Silque who is the only healer until Tatiana or a Sage promotion both of which happen fairly late.

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6 minutes ago, Shephen said:

Faye would be super underleveled at that point and her stats would be really bad making her a liability for the most part. Genny is fine as a sole cleric on Celica's route since she can either use Invoke or Physics to get out of most situations. Celica also gets recover fairly early for the heals, a lot of equipment the army has gives passive recovery, and there is Nomah and promoted Mae/Boey for some more heals. Faye is more useful as a Cleric on Alm's side helping Silque who is the only healer until Tatiana or a Sage promotion both of which happen fairly late.

Yeah, i figured Faye's stats wouldn't be that great if she's recruited at the end of Act 2. Didn't know about Celica getting Recover early tho. She didn't get it when i played the original Gaiden but i probably didn't level her up enough.

What's Faye's best or recommended Class(es) if she were on Celica's side? Same question for Kliff.

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3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, i figured Faye's stats wouldn't be that great if she's recruited at the end of Act 2. Didn't know about Celica getting Recover early tho. She didn't get it when i played the original Gaiden but i probably didn't level her up enough.

What's Faye's best or recommended Class(es) if she were on Celica's side? Same question for Kliff.

Yeah Celica learns Recover at lvl 9, which is fairly easy for her to achieve.

 

Faye would be best as Peg since it would give Celica another flier that has similar availability to Palla and Catria. Cav could work as well for the movement boost and better bulk than Peg. Kliff would be best as a Cavalier since it patches his spd up a bit and gives him a mobility niche. All of his other classes would be really bad(Mage and Soldier) or outdone by other units in the route(Merc and Archer)

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