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maninbluejumpsuit

Should I use Seth...?

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I sort of have a stigma against using pre-promotes since I'm one of those 'promote at 20' kinds of people.

Late-game, how would Seth hold up compared to a trained Forde in this method?

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Better tbqh. Seth is incredible - he has great bases and good growths. He's actually capable of soloing the game while carrying Eirika.

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The question of "Should I use Seth?" isn't a question of "Is he good", but a question of "Do you want this game to be remotely challenging?" He is that good. Despite having monstrous base stats, his growths are on par with a regular early game Cavalier, so if you let him, Seth can almost solo the entire game. His mere presence basically invalidates the three Cavaliers you get, as well as Amelia's Cav route.

On Ephraim's route, he has more competition from Duessel, but just use the two together and it all just plays itself.

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23 minutes ago, maninbluejumpsuit said:

Late-game, how would Seth hold up compared to a trained Forde in this method?

Are you using Seth the whole game or are you just throwing base Seth into the fray in the Late-game?

Seth is obviously amazing. Forde can be anywhere from better than Seth to much worse depending on how he gains stats.

On average, they should be basically interchangeable If they are both fully leveled.

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Seth's growths are actually quite a bit better then those of the other Cavaliers. So yeah, as has been stated, Seth on lv. 20 is pretty much equal to the other Cavaliers on 20/20.

Edited by BrightBow

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7 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Are you using Seth the whole game or are you just throwing base Seth into the fray in the Late-game?

Seth is obviously amazing. Forde can be anywhere from better than Seth to much worse depending on how he gains stats.

On average, they should be basically interchangeable If they are both fully leveled.

Was thinking on using him when Franz/main lord has the same-ish stats, which would be around the route split.

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1 minute ago, maninbluejumpsuit said:

Was thinking on using him when Franz/main lord has the same-ish stats, which would be around the route split.

Stats-wise, the lords should be able to catch up, but Seth is still on a horse. Franz is good, but because of how he grows, he never truly catches up to Seth.

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One of the reasons why Seth stays overpowered throughout the game is the way boss XP is calculated. IIRC, Seth gains forty-something XP for each bosskill, so letting him kill all the bosses is not only much easier than trying to feed them to your growth units, but also a very good long-time investment.

As others have said, Seth would bit worse statwise than the other paladins if they caught up to him in levels. But by feeding off the bosses, he'll stay far, far ahead on the level curve, especially since the game is way too short to reach level 20/20 (unless you grind for days, of course).

Edited by ping

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Seth is the strongest unit in the game on a no-grind run, and will be comparable to a trained cavalier when looking at 20/20 averages (if you could level units beyond 20, Seth would outdo Franz in all but slightly Speed and much in Luck).

Immediately after the route split begins, Seth might be a little on the broken side still, but not so much. He won't be able to double Mercs or Myrms sans AS loss on their part for instance. He'll be very good filler.

If you want to overuse him before the route split, he might be able to cripple (and not kill) the knights in C8 with an Iron Sword or Lance, thus making them easier to feed to your growth units. Baiting Joshua for recruitment or sending him alone along the west side of C5 might also be decent things he can do without taking out too many baddies. Lastly, if you don't want to send Vanessa to protect the villagers in C6 from the Bael, Seth can make it just in time, give him a Vulnerary or two though because I recall a horseslayer being somewhere along the way.

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As a fun fact, Seth actually has the 4th best growth rate total in the game, only coming in lower than Eirika, Ephrahim, and Myrrh. Comparing him to the other potential Paladins (Forde, Franz, Kyle, and Amelia) he smacks them or is at worst equal in every single category bar speed (which he loses by 5%), and has a whopping 15% Def growth (for a total of 40%) on Kyle, who has the best defense out of all the cavs (at 25%). 

People aren't kidding when they say Seth literally breaks the game in half simply by existing. 

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5 hours ago, maninbluejumpsuit said:

I sort of have a stigma against using pre-promotes since I'm one of those 'promote at 20' kinds of people.

Late-game, how would Seth hold up compared to a trained Forde in this method?

Use him, it is an act of complete foolishness not to use him. He has perfect bases, great growths, he is available as soon as you begin the game, he kills bosses, all he needs is a javelin to get rolling, and he has a pony. No character will ever surpass Seth, period. I suggest you to forget about level 20 and promote as soon as possible, if you are really stingy, level 13. Having Franz and Vanessa promoted before the route split is the greatest thing that can happen to you, as well as promoting Gerik on arrival so he can get a pony. Promoting Forde at level 10 gives you an extra dude in the Phantom Ship as well.

Edited by L9999

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Seth is an incredible unit. He's very useful to have around, especially in the beginning chapters. Came in handy more than once when I was just beginning to play Sacred Stones!

He's one of those very few pre-promoted-early-on gems that don't lose quality over the course of the game, which I found very cool. I like him as a character and his relationship with Eirika, so I was happy to keep him for the entirety of my playthrough. :3

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Probably too late to contribute usefully, but there's no reason to hold Seth back until other characters compare reasonably with him. In fact, if you do so, you'll probably find Seth to be fairly unremarkable, since, uh, by the definition of when you're using him it's when he is comparable to others. If you start using him sooner, he can do a ton of work for you. You don't have to go crazy and give him every single kill, of course that's bad for the rest of your team (but yet it still works since Seth is that dang good), but he can pick up boss kills, kill any annoying enemies or just pick off one or two enemies in each group you encounter. Between the Prologue and chapter 8, his EXP gain is not heavily penalised, and he still gets about 4-6 EXP per kill IIRC, as well as 50+ EXP from boss kills, so killing at least the bosses and a few other enemies with Seth is recommendable. If you do this, he should be comfortably about level 6-7 going into chapter 9, with those chapters having been nice and painless thanks to Seth's contribution, AND everyone else's EXP gains no more heavily hindered than using any other character would have been. It's win-win all around.

 

Another thing I'd like to note, a lot of people are pointing out how he compares well to the other Cavs at max level, and while that's somewhat true (I'd say Amelia, Franz and Kyle are better, although not by much), the important bit is that doesn't even matter in main game. Thanks to Seth's early level lead, if he's used throughout the game he can comfortably end up in the -/16 to -/20 level range by the end of the game, while most other characters typically end up more around 20/10 to 20/12, and perhaps even lower for Trainees/Knoll/L'Arachel etc. So he has a good ~6 level lead still at the end of the game, and that's significant enough that even then, the other Cavaliers still don't catch up to him, at all - nor do really any other characters, for that matter. So he ends up not just being the best character early in the game, but the best character throughout the entire game. It's crazy.

 

On 5/13/2017 at 10:23 PM, Deltre said:

As a fun fact, Seth actually has the 4th best growth rate total in the game, only coming in lower than Eirika, Ephrahim, and Myrrh. Comparing him to the other potential Paladins (Forde, Franz, Kyle, and Amelia) he smacks them or is at worst equal in every single category bar speed (which he loses by 5%), and has a whopping 15% Def growth (for a total of 40%) on Kyle, who has the best defense out of all the cavs (at 25%). 

People aren't kidding when they say Seth literally breaks the game in half simply by existing. 

Perhaps a minor point, but his growths are the 5th highest, not 4th. Myrrh (580%), Tethys (355%), Eirika (350%) and Ephraim (345%) are the charcters higher than his 325% total. And on top of that, even more minor perhaps, but highest and best aren't necessarily the same thing. I'd say he has perhaps the 3rd or 4th best growths - beating Tethys and possibly Eirika's growths out of those top sets. Or to phrase that a little more explicitly, I feel that Seth's 20% HP, 10% STR and 10% DEF growth leads are about comparable or slightly better compared to Eirika's 15% SKL, 15% SPD and 35% LUK growth leads; even though they're smaller growth leads they're in mostly more important stats.

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Alright, I’m going to say this now, Seth can literally solo the entire game by himself.

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I generally dislike using pre-promotes because they don't get as much experience as lower-level units, but defeating the boss of chapter 4 gives 100 experience even to Seth anyway. (Entombed bosses give a ton of experience and should only be killed by your highest-level character, because that character will probably get 100 experience too.)

Edited by Paper Jam

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