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Lloyd is actually pretty good?


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So, terrible artwork aside, lloyd seems to be an actually good unit.

he's tied for fifth highest speed in the game, and with regal blade's effect he jumps up to third, surpassing linde and lucina before applying skills like fury and life or death.

He also comes in at eighth highest attack, which jumps up to sixth, again with regal blade's effect.

So, he can out speed lucina and tie her for damage, as well as ryoma.

Not to shabby.

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I just can't get over that art -.-

I play for pretty art, not great units, so he's likely going to be consigned to 4* 40 on my account. I have many others to upgrade over him ^.^''

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I think  Regal blade is excellent weapon and being in Lloid having decent stats himself is indeed anything  but too shabby.

 

What is his max res anyway?Does he profit from Iceberg?

 

 

 

Edited by Tenzen12
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14 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

I think  Regal blade is excellent weapon and being in Lloid having decent stats himself is indeed anything  but too shabby.

 

What is his max res anyway?Does he profit from Iceberg?

 

 

 

Yes. Hugely. 

His max res is 30.

Only Eliwood and Fir have higher res for sword units.

Edited by dragonlordsd
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Considering swords with inbuilt distant counter have middling resistance. Lloyd might be good idea to put it on him instead most of other units. He has both good attack and speed so he could probably go without standard furry/death blow.

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His stats are pretty good actually (even if he was easy to defeat), but his defense is rather low for a melee unit.

He looks like an empty shell (both in terms of appearance and gameplay wise): there's a lot you can do for him but it requires heavy investment... and I definitely don't think I'd want to do that.

The simple thing would be to give him Fury and Vantage or Desperation, but I'm sure more creative builds can be invented.

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1 hour ago, Tenzen12 said:

Considering swords with inbuilt distant counter have middling resistance. Lloyd might be good idea to put it on him instead most of other units. He has both good attack and speed so he could probably go without standard furry/death blow.

I've been considering giving him Distant Counter due to how good he could be to bait mages. A Renais twin or anyone with Fortify Res/Rally Resistance can help buff that resistance even further. 

Edited by Lord-Zero
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I can't decide between fury, darting blow, or life and death.

probably not life and death, he doesn't need any less defense.

darting blow gives him a whopping 43 speed on attack, but fury would let him have 40 on both attack and defense.

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1 hour ago, DraceEmpressa said:

Because of his PRF weapon, it seems that  Dragon Fang is better to him than Glacies.

Interesting. Good to know.

Yeah, so far, Lloyd seems like a slightly better Lucina. He trades 5 defense and 2 less hp for 10 more resistance and 1 more speed.

The big loss for him is not having effective against dragons and renewal 2 combo.

Edited by dragonlordsd
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He's a higher risk/higher reward version of Fir. Or a less balanced/tanky version of Roy.

Less Speed/Def/Res compared to neutral Fir, but a whooping +7 attack and a 16 mt sword. Compared to Roy he flips how his sword bonus works, and loses some defence stats all around for some offence stats. Lucina is still a lot better than him (she can actually try to take a physical hit) and she has more long term survivability thanks to Falchion. 

He's not Navarre bad, but he's a very middle of the road swordy in a sea of swords considering he compares directly to Fir and Roy and well... Fir is pretty bad and Roy is merely slightly above average.

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1 hour ago, TheNiddo said:

He's a higher risk/higher reward version of Fir. Or a less balanced/tanky version of Roy.

Less Speed/Def/Res compared to neutral Fir, but a whooping +7 attack and a 16 mt sword. Compared to Roy he flips how his sword bonus works, and loses some defence stats all around for some offence stats. Lucina is still a lot better than him (she can actually try to take a physical hit) and she has more long term survivability thanks to Falchion. 

He's not Navarre bad, but he's a very middle of the road swordy in a sea of swords considering he compares directly to Fir and Roy and well... Fir is pretty bad and Roy is merely slightly above average.

I'm interested to see the math on how much more of a hit Lucina can take than he can. Because if it doesn't make a significant difference, he may actually be just outright better than her, and stat-wise, she was at the top of the swordy food chain. Other than Ike or Ryoma, there really aren't any generalist sword users around these days. Eirika is used, obviously, but she's a support unit more often than an outright attacker.

I don't think it matters a ton, since I'm not swapping out Ryoma for him, and I can't imagine anyone else doing so either, but he'll probably be necessary for the next arena season.

Probably.

Edited by dragonlordsd
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1 hour ago, dragonlordsd said:

I'm interested to see the math on how much more of a hit Lucina can take than he can. Because if it doesn't make a significant difference, he may actually be just outright better than her, and stat-wise, she was at the top of the swordy food chain. Other than Ike or Ryoma, there really aren't any generalist sword users around these days. Eirika is used, obviously, but she's a support unit more often than an outright attacker.

I don't think it matters a ton, since I'm not swapping out Ryoma for him, and I can't imagine anyone else doing so either, but he'll probably be necessary for the next arena season.

Probably.

She's beating him in literally everything but Res. +2 HP, +2 Strength, +1 Speed, +5 Def vs +11 Res. 5 less damage per physical hit + access to IVs (to get say, +Speed/-Res IV to avoid even more doubles/earn more doubles) means she's a lot more durable against physical attacks than him. Which is sad because she's not exactly a tank. And then add in the Falchion healing for kicks. Lloyd gets to tie her neutral strength and edge out her neutral speed against each opponent exactly once. Assuming nobody else hits them first. So in the majority of the battles Lucina is edging him out in offence as well.

That's the other thing people forget about when looking at GHB units sometimes: not having access to IVs. It can make quite the difference. 35 speed is good, but enough people can jack their speed up to above 40 with IVs + LaD or Fury that he's not immune to getting doubled and he's certainly not doubling as consistently as he might like to. He can use LaD himself sure but that really hurts one of his large selling points (Res) and takes his largest weakness (Def) into Felicia level territory. 41 + 15 = 56 damage, there are blues out there who can dish that out in one hit easily. A few reds can do it with +Attack IVs and a +Attack buff. So unless you're willing to gamble on that happening you aren't giving him LaD, meaning he gets Fury at best. Which is pretty nice on him but its also very commonly run so that puts his comparison vs most of the other swordsmen back to how they are before passives... and without him able to access IVs to keep up with them. 

-shrugs- He just falls a bit short, largely due to IVs. He's not a bad Distant Counter option though, if you want a unit that can wreck green mages. 

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5 minutes ago, TheNiddo said:

Lloyd gets to tie her neutral strength and edge out her neutral speed against each opponent exactly once.

Well, to be real, that one time is the only time you actually need, especially if Lloyd has Fury.

But yeah, I don't think Lloyd is in any way better than Lucina. He NEEDS the Regal Blade boost to have offenses on par with Lucina, while she gets other additional effects from her Falchion. Using up your legendary weapon's effect to only get 1 more Spd over Lucina is NOT a victory for Lloyd.

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I think most of these GHBs have been for the most part units who perform a specific Niche, rather than being good all around units. (barring SI).

Narcian: A blue unit destroyer, most specifically, lancers. 

Ursula: Horsies

Green Lady Robin: Conceptually, Reinhardt's bane. She can also hurt horsies in general, but she doesn't have one so they may use the escaping.

Lloyd: Resistant Navarre who doesnt get as much Criticals. Sympathy Ragnarok effect for those who didn't get Celica. "Green mage killer" WITH SI

(not sure his niche without SI. I mean, ya Bunny Camilla a little.)

Navarre: Extremely fast sword running at incredibly hihg speed. (Im missing something there) Haven't used Navarre

Zephiel and Michalis: Good units almost any time.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, rockocalypse said:

I think most of these GHBs have been for the most part units who perform a specific Niche, rather than being good all around units. (barring SI).

Narcian: A blue unit destroyer, most specifically, lancers. 

Ursula: Horsies

Green Lady Robin: Conceptually, Reinhardt's bane. She can also hurt horsies in general, but she doesn't have one so they may use the escaping.

Lloyd: Resistant Navarre who doesnt get as much Criticals. Sympathy Ragnarok effect for those who didn't get Celica. "Green mage killer" WITH SI

(not sure his niche without SI. I mean, ya Bunny Camilla a little.)

Navarre: Extremely fast sword running at incredibly hihg speed. (Im missing something there) Haven't used Navarre

Zephiel and Michalis: Good units almost any time.

 

 

You forgot to mention Xander, the free Distant Counter

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On 5/19/2017 at 5:01 PM, TheNiddo said:

She's beating him in literally everything but Res. +2 HP, +2 Strength, +1 Speed, +5 Def vs +11 Res. 5 less damage per physical hit + access to IVs (to get say, +Speed/-Res IV to avoid even more doubles/earn more doubles) means she's a lot more durable against physical attacks than him. Which is sad because she's not exactly a tank. And then add in the Falchion healing for kicks. Lloyd gets to tie her neutral strength and edge out her neutral speed against each opponent exactly once. Assuming nobody else hits them first. So in the majority of the battles Lucina is edging him out in offence as well.

That's the other thing people forget about when looking at GHB units sometimes: not having access to IVs. It can make quite the difference. 35 speed is good, but enough people can jack their speed up to above 40 with IVs + LaD or Fury that he's not immune to getting doubled and he's certainly not doubling as consistently as he might like to. He can use LaD himself sure but that really hurts one of his large selling points (Res) and takes his largest weakness (Def) into Felicia level territory. 41 + 15 = 56 damage, there are blues out there who can dish that out in one hit easily. A few reds can do it with +Attack IVs and a +Attack buff. So unless you're willing to gamble on that happening you aren't giving him LaD, meaning he gets Fury at best. Which is pretty nice on him but its also very commonly run so that puts his comparison vs most of the other swordsmen back to how they are before passives... and without him able to access IVs to keep up with them. 

-shrugs- He just falls a bit short, largely due to IVs. He's not a bad Distant Counter option though, if you want a unit that can wreck green mages. 

He technically has more speed and the same strength thanks to Regal Blade giving him +2/+2, which means he's at 34/37 to her 34/36. Now, this does only apply while the enemy is at full hp, but, on the other hand, it always applies while the enemy is at full hp, on both offense and defense. So, even if he's being attacked by Linde, he'll still get the benefits.

Agree with you on life and death though. Fury is a lot safer on him.

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Hm so assuming Linus is physically defensive, I think the four fangs emblem is very doable. Ursla with Raven tome, Lloyd with distant counter, and Jaffar with debuffs should be able to take out everything.  Unfortunately the only time I've found Jaffar to be useful is with a dancer..

If Linus is not physically defensive (would be suprising) the team would get destroyed by physical units.  

Blue, Red, Red, Nocolor is not the best but not the worst either.  

You could actually use Ursla's default weapon and Kagero's weapon in Jaffar (Weapon Triangle on both) to kill most anything but fliers.  Armored units could still be KOd by an Ursla most of the time. 

Also there's the fact that the way arena is set up you would only get to use this team when one of them is in the focus....

Edited by Lushen
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20 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Hm so assuming Linus is physically defensive, I think the four fangs emblem is very doable. Ursla with Raven tome, Lloyd with distant counter, and Jaffar with debuffs should be able to take out everything.  Unfortunately the only time I've found Jaffar to be useful is with a dancer..

If Linus is not physically defensive (would be suprising) the team would get destroyed by physical units.  

Blue, Red, Red, Nocolor is not the best but not the worst either.  

You could actually use Ursla's default weapon and Kagero's weapon in Jaffar (Weapon Triangle on both) to kill most anything but fliers.  Armored units could still be KOd by an Ursla most of the time. 

Also there's the fact that the way arena is set up you would only get to use this team when one of them is in the focus....

linus is a hero, so he could be a green

i believe his morph has a tomahawk, and lloyd has the regal blade that his morph had, so it's perfectly possible that he'll have the tomahawk in heroes

Edited by unique
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19 minutes ago, unique said:

linus is a hero, so he could be a green

i believe his morph has a tomahawk, and lloyd has the regal blade that his morph had, so it's perfectly possible that he'll have the tomahawk in heroes

Good point. And, whoever is in charge of GHB clearly really likes the four fangs considering 2 of them have already been released so I could see them creating more synergy by making him green. Additionally, they need more greens which I think is why Raven got an axe. 

Either way, he his defense is more important than his color in this case. 

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41 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Hm so assuming Linus is physically defensive, I think the four fangs emblem is very doable. Ursla with Raven tome, Lloyd with distant counter, and Jaffar with debuffs should be able to take out everything.  Unfortunately the only time I've found Jaffar to be useful is with a dancer..

I wonder whether Linus will have a tomahawk. Distant counter axe? I’ll take two!

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