I need some feedback for my ideas involving an FE game I intend to make.

[Zerxen]

I intend to make my own fangame sometime in the future (debating whether it should be a hack or not) and am currently brainstorming various ideas for gameplay. I intend on making the game as balanced as possible and some ideas I had include the following:

-Mounted units nerfed by being weapon locked until promotion as well as having a slight movement penalty in indoor terrain.

-No reclassing but branched promotions a la Sacred Stones.

-Automatic promotion upon reaching Level 21. but items will exist that can induce early promotion.

-Skills are learned upon levelling up like the 3DS era games, but various characters can utilize skills from other classes by having them as personal skills (i.e. Myrmidon having Gamble).

-Hidden weapons present, but nerfed in terms of might and exist mostly for debuffing stats.

-Light magic making a comeback and tomes existing to buff a unit's stats whereas certain Dark Magic tomes debuff in contrast.

-Weapon durability making a comeback; broken weapons repairable similar to FE4.

-Different chapter objectives ranging from Seize, Escape, Defend, etc. Unique chapters like stealth missions and having the Lord seize multiple points in the map will exist.

-Two different Lords exist, one of which utilizing Dark Magic.

-Griffon riders from FE13 making a comeback (I wanted a sword-flier to parallel Wyvern riders and Pegasus Knights). Since Pegasus Knights have higher Speed and Res whereas Wyvern Riders had higher Strength and Defense, I envisioned Griffon Riders as some sort of jack of all stats type of class. Since Griffon riders were mostly a support unit, I thought of a skill where they maintained their Skill and Speed stats while carrying a unit in favor of them having debuffed Defense and Res.

-Removal of pair up, return of rescue.

-No rally skills or statboosters. 

I included the class tree below:

Spoiler

Sword users

-Mercenary <-> Hero or Bow Knight

-Myrmidon <-> Swordmaster or Rogue (uses Swords and Hidden Weapons)

-Cavaliers (Mounted sword users) <-> Paladin or Great Knight

-Guardian (Sword armors) <-> Templar (Uses Swords and Lances) or Great Knight (Uses Axes,Swords, and lances)

-Griffon rider (Flying sword units) <-> Griffon Lord (uses Swords and Axes) or Wyvern Lord (Uses Axes and Lances)

Lance users

-Soldier <-> Halberdier or General

-Knight <-> General or Great Knight

-Pegasus Knight <-> Falcon Knight (uses Lances and Swords) or Phoenix Knight (Uses Lances and Bows)

-Highlander (Mounted lance users) <-> Duke Knight (Uses Lances and Axes) or Paladin

Axe users

-Fighter <-> Berserker or Hero

-Barbarian <-> Warrior or Berserker

-Wyvern Rider <-> Wyvern Lord (uses Axes and Lances) or Griffon Lord

-Sergeant (Axe Armors) <-> Lieutenant (Uses Axes and Swords) or General

-Cataphract (Mounted axe users) <-> Great Knight or Duke Knight

Others

-Archer <-> Sniper or Phoenix Knight

-Hunter<-> Bow Knight or Warrior

-Thief (uses Hidden Weapons) <-> Rogue

-Dancer (uses Hidden Weapons; does not promote)

Magic users

-Mage <-> Sage or Mage Knight (Uses Anima Magic and Swords)

-Shaman <-> Sorcerer or Mage Knight

-Cleric <-> War Monk (uses Staves and Bows) or Sage

-Troubadours <-> Valkyrie or War Monk

I was thinking of adding a Raider class that uses Axes and have them promote to Marauder class, gaining a mount and Bow usage, though I realized that there would be too much Axe users in this tree in comparison to Sword and Lances and I am not too sure how to implement them to Cataphracts. Had this stayed, it would have served as an alternative promotion for Nomads.

-I also thought about adding a Diplomat class for the non Dark Mage Lord that would eventually promote to Ambassador, no idea what weapon I would give but I wouldn't give it Sword out redundancy. I was thinking perhaps Lance.

-ATM, I do not know how I can implement Monks to this class tree. I want unisex classes to exist but at the same time, I do not want Monks to share the same line as Cleric. At the same time, I do not know what I could place as an alternative promotion for Thieves as Dancer is the only other class to use Hidden Weapons.

Someone please critique these ideas.

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Zerxen

[PlaYeRaNoN]

If your lord is an diplomat, how about a non-offensive or indirect "weapon"? Like a bashing board shield or magic? A lance is good though. 

I have no clue for the monks, as there is no use in creating a different class if their starting "weapon" is going to be the same. So this, maybe? It's not perfect by any means.

Traditionnal occidental clerics: They start off with using staves. Possible promotions include:

• Sage(staves+anima magic);
• Templar/war monk (staves+bow).

The more tanky pilgrim/monk: Starts off with either cestus/gauntlets. Promotes to:

• Saint (cestus+staves);
• (War) monks (ceastus+ axes).

That's all I got for now, but you're off to a good start. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by PlaYeRaNoN

[Zerxen]

1 hour ago, PlaYeRaNoN said:

If your lord is an diplomat, how about a non-offensive or indirect "weapon"? Like a bashing board shield or magic? A lance is good though. 

I have no clue for the monks, as there is no use in creating a different class if their starting "weapon" is going to be the same. So this, maybe? It's not perfect by any means.

Traditionnal occidental clerics: They start off with using staves. Possible promotions include:

• Sage(staves+anima magic);
• Templar/war monk (staves+bow).

The more tanky pilgrim/monk: Starts off with either cestus/gauntlets. Promotes to:

• Saint (cestus+staves);
• (War) monks (ceastus+ axes).

That's all I got for now, but you're off to a good start. 

I like your ideas and thanks for the feedback. When I said Monks, I referred to the GBA ones, intending to bring back Light Magic and gaining staff use upon promotion.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Zerxen

[PlaYeRaNoN]

2 minutes ago, Zerxen said:

I like your ideas and thanks for the feedback. When I said Monks, I referred to the GBA ones, intending to bring back Light Magic.

Ah, that's true. It's been awhile since I played those. Still, I don't know why it is that I had a more "martial artist" vision of the monks... 

It could be a good way of shaking things up, though. In the end, it's up to you to pick what you like and mix things up between all classes involved (mages, clerics, monks and troubadours) to make your healers and magic users distinct. As for thieves, could it be possible to do it this way?

The thief uses either hidden weapons or swords and unlocks locks (possible implementation of picklocking skill levels, but it may very well prove to be unnecessarily complicated.)

• Rogue (Hidden weapons/dagger+sword);
• Assassin (Hidden weapons/dagger+bows);
• (maybe) Bow knight/Espion (sword+bow)?

Anyways, your ideas in terms for gameplay mechanics seem to be solid! On a side note, and take this as a grain of salt (since I'm not well versed in programming) but making a hack of the game closest to your vision seems to be a more viable route than building from the ground up. I presume you already have a pitch for your story, no?

[Zerxen]

1 hour ago, PlaYeRaNoN said:

Ah, that's true. It's been awhile since I played those. Still, I don't know why it is that I had a more "martial artist" vision of the monks... 

It could be a good way of shaking things up, though. In the end, it's up to you to pick what you like and mix things up between all classes involved (mages, clerics, monks and troubadours) to make your healers and magic users distinct. As for thieves, could it be possible to do it this way?

The thief uses either hidden weapons or swords and unlocks locks (possible implementation of picklocking skill levels, but it may very well prove to be unnecessarily complicated.)

• Rogue (Hidden weapons/dagger+sword);
• Assassin (Hidden weapons/dagger+bows);
• (maybe) Bow knight/Espion (sword+bow)?

Anyways, your ideas in terms for gameplay mechanics seem to be solid! On a side note, and take this as a grain of salt (since I'm not well versed in programming) but making a hack of the game closest to your vision seems to be a more viable route than building from the ground up. I presume you already have a pitch for your story, no?

I am currently in the process of crafting together characters and names for nations/kingdoms for the game. I have a rough draft of the story but I will be honest, it is quite generic for FE, basically involving nation A attacking nation B and a war ensuing.

My initial pitch for Pirate Emblem the story involved a crew of seafarers on the hunt for the divine treasure known as the Fire Emblem. While stopping by a port belonging to Peprea, they are receive word from the locals that Shackleton, the newly appointed Emperor of Edrain, plans on launching a wide scale attack due to tensions with Peprea over resources.  Shackleton was a former crewmember years ago, scurrying off one day with the ship's treasures in order to rise in the social hiearchy, eventually finding himself ruling Edrain. The crew, bearing a grudge against Shackleton, decide to bear arms against Edrain and protect Peprea.The lord of the story would be the crew's captain, an arrogant man who slowly grows sympathetic towards others as he witnesses the hardships of war. The gameplay  of Pirate Emblem would be reminiscent of Thracia 776, providing the player with limited gold and reintroducing the capture mechanic. Because the main characters are pirates, they practice stealing from the enemy's inventory, using captured weapons for battle or selling them for funds. The player's decision to capture a boss unit would affect the story and unlock potential gaiden chapters. Though I liked this pitch, I am quite unsure how to make a rom hack of Thracia's engine. In addition, I did not know how to implement Mages, Clerics, Cavaliers, etc into a pirate setting. I also hate boat maps.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Zerxen

[PlaYeRaNoN]

10 hours ago, Zerxen said:

I am currently in the process of crafting together characters and names for nations/kingdoms for the game. I have a rough draft of the story but I will be honest, it is quite generic for FE, basically involving nation A attacking nation B and a war ensuing.

My initial pitch for Pirate Emblem the story involved a crew of seafarers on the hunt for the divine treasure known as the Fire Emblem. While stopping by a port belonging to Peprea, they are receive word from the locals that Shackleton, the newly appointed Emperor of Edrain, plans on launching a wide scale attack due to tensions with Peprea over resources.  Shackleton was a former crewmember years ago, scurrying off one day with the ship's treasures in order to rise in the social hiearchy, eventually finding himself ruling Edrain. The crew, bearing a grudge against Shackleton, decide to bear arms against Edrain and protect Peprea.The lord of the story would be the crew's captain, an arrogant man who slowly grows sympathetic towards others as he witnesses the hardships of war. The gameplay  of Pirate Emblem would be reminiscent of Thracia 776, providing the player with limited gold and reintroducing the capture mechanic. Because the main characters are pirates, they practice stealing from the enemy's inventory, using captured weapons for battle or selling them for funds. The player's decision to capture a boss unit would affect the story and unlock potential gaiden chapters. Though I liked this pitch, I am quite unsure how to make a rom hack of Thracia's engine. In addition, I did not know how to implement Mages, Clerics, Cavaliers, etc into a pirate setting. I also hate boat maps.

There are many reasons to go to war, you could mix them up. Some options include fighting for:

• Land (not enough for their growing population);
• Ressources/economic opportunities (new business roads/sea routes, market trades, spices, gold...);
• Politics (countries you're allied with are in need or have been attacked);
• Retaliation against (perpetual?) criminal/terrorist acts;
• Violation of laws and treaty;
• Religious tensions and
• Power & glory, of course!

 Units mounted on horses might prove to be lore or game-breaking, depending on your campaign. If you only have boat/sea maps it could be redundant anyways, so you could implement maps taking place in forteresses, cities, castles, on islands (stranted perhaps?)... as long as you find a viable reason to do so, which I am sure sure you will. 

You could make mages a rare and valuable asset in the world you build, maybe? And any peculiar classes could join you because they have ties with your crew in a way or another: family, friends, captives, refugees... DEBTS. \ ٩( ᐛ )و / 

Or it could be because they want to fight to protect the country. Your crew should be a valuable asset to the war; at some point the leader(s) of Peprea would be forced to investigate on them and their meddling/helping during the war, possibly striking a deal or alliance. 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by PlaYeRaNoN

[Zerxen]

27 minutes ago, PlaYeRaNoN said:

There are many reasons to go to war, you could mix them up. Some options include fighting for:

• Lands (not enough for their growing population);
• Ressources or economic opportunities (new business roads/sea routes, market trades, spices, gold...);
• Politics (countries you're allied with are in need or have been attacked);
• Retaliation against (perpetual?) criminal/terrorist acts;
• Violation of laws and treaty;
• Religious tensions; 
• Power & glory, of course.

 Units mounted on horses might prove to be lore or game-breaking, depending on your campaign. If you only have boat/sea maps it could be redundant anyways, so you could implement maps taking place in forteresses, islands, cities, castles... as long as you find a viable reason to do so, which I am sure sure you will. 

You could make mages a rare and valuable asset in the world you build, maybe? And any peculiar classes could join you because they have ties with your crew in a way or another: family, friends, captives, refugees... DEBTS. \ ٩( ᐛ )و / 

Or it could be because they want to fight to protect the country. Your crew should be a valuable asset to the war; at some point the leader(s) of Peprea would be forced to investigate on them and their meddling/helping during the war, possibly striking a deal or alliance. 

 

The more I think about it, I was more pleased with the idea of my original pitch. I like the idea of Peprean officials recognizing the crew's influence in the tide of war so an alliance could be forged between the groups, with Peprean soldiers joining the crew and justifying the prescence of cavaliers, pegasus knights, clerics, etc as playable units. I also like the idea of the Fire Emblem being stored within Edrain and the crew stumbling upon it during a battle with Shackleton. The chapters in the game can take place on islands and fortresses so I suppose boat maps don't have to be dominant.

Problem is, I do not know how to make a rom hack of Thracia's engine. 

[PlaYeRaNoN]

21 minutes ago, Zerxen said:

The more I think about it, I was more pleased with the idea of my original pitch. I like the idea of Peprean officials recognizing the crew's influence in the tide of war so an alliance could be forged between the groups, with Peprean soldiers joining the crew and justifying the prescence of cavaliers, pegasus knights, clerics, etc as playable units. I also like the idea of the Fire Emblem being stored within Edrain and the crew stumbling upon it during a battle with Shackleton. The chapters in the game can take place on islands and fortresses so I suppose boat maps don't have to be dominant.

Problem is, I do not know how to make a rom hack of Thracia's engine. 

Eeeeh... sorry, neither do I.

I can help you brainstorm ideas, but can't provide hacking or programming advice yet. (6_6) The most frequently hacked games are usually FE 7, 8 and 11, as you probably know. I'm not sure there's  a lot of ressources are avaible for Thracia, but I have seen some: Forum//Ressource Directory//Tutorials 

Otherwise I can't really provide any more help other than ideas for story and gameplay. 

[Zerxen]

1 hour ago, PlaYeRaNoN said:

Eeeeh... sorry, neither do I.

I can help you brainstorm ideas, but can't provide hacking or programming advice yet. (6_6) The most frequently hacked games are usually FE 7, 8 and 11, as you probably know. I'm not sure there's  a lot of ressources are avaible for Thracia, but I have seen some: Forum//Ressource Directory//Tutorials 

Otherwise I can't really provide any more help other than ideas for story and gameplay. 

Can I hear more ideas from you for either of the pitches? Even if the game may not get made, it is still fun to fantasize and brainstorm gameplay ideas (possible mechanics, classes, character ideas, anything). And yeah I do realize GBA hacks are more commonplace so FE5 hacking is a big challenge, though I don't think it is impossible.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Zerxen

[Tequila]

If Capture is your sole reason for hacking FE5, rejoice! There's a hack for it in FE8 (which is, not coincidentally, what I would recommend as a base rom).

[PlaYeRaNoN]

Just now, Zerxen said:

Can I hear more ideas from you for either of the pitches? Even if the game may not get made, it is still fun to fantasize and brainstorm. And yeah I do realize GBA hacks are more commonplace so FE5 hacking is a big challenge, though I don't think it is impossible.

I think it is possible, but it's gonna take a lot of time and patience. Is it your first try? I know the feeling of getting too ambitious only to be flabbergasted by the amount of work those projects are going to take. =A= Tactical games like FE are hard to make, but it does have to be perfect right away: how about starting with the goal of making a "prologue prototype" to present to the others? You could update the game as you get feedback.

Take it slow, start with "simple" objectives like establishing a solid script, possible branching paths and developping your characters. You are still in the pre-production phase: familiarize yourself with the hacking tools and go at your own pace. You might have to bend your project to fit your limitations and ressources, though.

Otherwise I'll be happy to give some ideas. But first, what themes and core ideas do you want to explore in terms of story? Do you want it to be an epic tale or a feel-good power fantasy? Do you want to explore psychology and the horrors of war, or simply show the wonders your world has to offer? For example, Fates themes would be probably be family, friendship, conquest, trust & betrayal and *cough-inconsequential-cough* choices.

[Zerxen]

57 minutes ago, PlaYeRaNoN said:

I think it is possible, but it's gonna take a lot of time and patience. Is it your first try? I know the feeling of getting too ambitious only to be flabbergasted by the amount of work those projects are going to take. =A= Tactical games like FE are hard to make, but it does have to be perfect right away: how about starting with the goal of making a "prologue prototype" to present to the others? You could update the game as you get feedback.

Take it slow, start with "simple" objectives like establishing a solid script, possible branching paths and developping your characters. You are still in the pre-production phase: familiarize yourself with the hacking tools and go at your own pace. You might have to bend your project to fit your limitations and ressources, though.

Otherwise I'll be happy to give some ideas. But first, what themes and core ideas do you want to explore in terms of story? Do you want it to be an epic tale or a feel-good power fantasy? Do you want to explore psychology and the horrors of war, or simply show the wonders your world has to offer? For example, Fates themes would be probably be family, friendship, conquest, trust & betrayal and *cough-inconsequential-cough* choices.

I am going to be perfectly honest here: I am not certain that I want to create an entire game. 

When I started this topic, I was trying to outline my visions for an ideal FE game I would make. I was trying to share my ideas and concepts and get feedback on it to see how balanced it sounds (I wanted a game to be as balanced as possible). After receiving some feedback and potential ideas from others like you, I would maybe try to learn how to hack, assuming I had the time to do so. I do not currently have time now, but I was intending on saving this topic for myself and use the information here in the near-future. 

I apologize if I got your hopes up but the truth is that I do not have genuine ambition for building a game. I mostly wanted others to critique my ideas for a hypothethetical game. I unknowingly left out the hypothetical part and neglected to mention it up until this point.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Zerxen

[PlaYeRaNoN]

1 hour ago, Zerxen said:

I am going to be perfectly honest here: I am not certain that I want to create an entire game. 

When I started this topic, I was trying to outline my visions for an ideal FE game I would make. I was trying to share my ideas and concepts and get feedback on it to see how balanced it sounds (I wanted a game to be as balanced as possible). After receiving some feedback and potential ideas from others like you, I would maybe try to learn how to hack, assuming I had the time to do so. I do not currently have time now, but I was intending on saving this topic for myself and use the information here in the near-future. 

I apologize if I got your hopes up but the truth is that I do not have genuine ambition for building a game. I mostly wanted others to critique my ideas for a hypothethetical game. I unknowingly left out the hypothetical part and neglected to mention it up until this point.

Oh no no, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have assumed as much either, it probably made you incomfortable. I might very well be over-stepping boundaries here, though I'm still up for some brainstorming- feel free to pick and choose those you like. So what the kind of tone you want to give your story?

[Zerxen]

1 hour ago, PlaYeRaNoN said:

Oh no no, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have assumed as much either, it probably made you incomfortable. I might very well be over-stepping boundaries here, though I'm still up for some brainstorming- feel free to pick and choose those you like. So what the kind of tone you want to give your story?

I suppose we're both at fault here, one way or another. In regards to the story, I am not quite sure. I would like for it to have some sort of political intrigue behind it while covering the effects of war on people, for better or for worse, with the trope of external forces corrupting people being absent. To clarify, I would like to see the protagonist to intially be arrogant, growing considerate and sympathetic as the plot progresses while some characters, once decent people, partake in morally questionable acts out of distress. Of course, that leaves the Fire Emblem as a plot device and I am not sure how it should exist. 

I would also like to see a story that involves themes of alliances and trust. For instance, there could be a nation that holds too much political power and all the neighboring nations form an alliance to overthrow its leader. The alliance proves to be unstable due to conflicting interests- no idea how to continue that.

To sum up, there are so many story and thematic concepts I'd like to see in a Fire Emblem game and various unused settings IS can use besides Medieval Europe. Deep down, I feel that I can settle for anything as long as the game has its own identity that sets it apart from other games while maintaining decent story telling and legitimate characterization. A unique sense of identity, good lore, and balanced gameplay would suffice for my ideal FE.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Zerxen