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The Best Fire Emblem Game Yet


Do you agree?  

64 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you feel like the game has more life than any of its predecessors?

    • Agreed!
      37
    • I Disagree
      27


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Forgive me if I cause any form of bias-held animosity by creating this topic but I beseech those who stumble upon this thread to read it from an objective standpoint. I also hold the past games in the highest praise since I delved into the Fire Emblem world.

I feel that I can say with the utmost confidence that Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia is the greatest FE game ever produced up to date. Many people had mixed and uncertain views on the release of this game since this wasn't the only episode of failure in the FE franchise when Shadow Dragon and New Mystery were released. I consider myself open minded and a very gray person. So I gave this game a chance; never having played Gaiden before I had no standards at all apart from the past games.

From Binding Blaze, Blazing Sword, Sacred Stones, Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, Awakening and Fates, I noticed the development and the progress made in giving the characters in the game more life, more detail and more... emotion. When Ninian gave her future to live a short life with Eliwood, when Ike held his father as Gawain drew his final breath, when Yune said one final goodbye to Tellius, when Lucina released her suppressed emotions in front of Chrom, and when Azura disappeared in front of Kamui, I was moved by all of them. The emotions became stronger and stronger as the series continued.

And when Echoes came out, I instantly knew how great of a game it would be. The gameplay in and of itself is extremely basic, but I knew that coming since it's a remake of the second game, in which features and mechanics were limited at best. But I always viewed the story as a more important element to games such as Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy, or even games like NieR: Automata, where one would think machines and androids would have no story or emotion. Intelligent Systems took the power of the game a step further, by giving the characters... a voice.

I never felt this much character and personality, nor the sentiment and impact of moments in the previous games than I did with Echoes. I haven't even finished the game in fact, and I already love even the minor characters. Tobin's cluelessness, Gray's smooth and chill demeanor, Mae's obnoxious and annoying energy, even Alm and Celica have so much life into them. I never imagined that you can add so much more depth to a game simply by giving the characters a voice, a REAL voice, not like simple voice scripts like "Oh!" "Haha!" "Thank you!" "Excuse me?"

Of course, even the gameplay is good. Despite me entering into the Fire Emblem world starting with the most sophisticated of the series mechanically and gameplay wise (the Tellius series), Echoes offers a very simple and refined, almost original form of Fire Emblem. I like that a lot as well. I feel that this simple addition of giving each characters, even minor ones like the villagers or townsfolk, just gave the game so much more life. And it's almost as if I'm in the game itself.

I've always been impressed by Fire Emblem, but truly, what a masterpiece this game is. And it definitely shows that the Fire Emblem legacy is still live and kicking! 

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In terms of story/writing I am definitely enjoying this game more than pretty much every other FE.

But the maps are kinda... Gaiden... and as Jedi said hold it back.  It's not really something they could avoid as this is a remake, but still.

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It feels more like an RPG overall than an FE, which isn't entirely a bad thing, its just not much of a tactics game that way.

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I'm at Act 3 (just defeated Deen), it's a good game; it's not a game I see myself coming back to in the future because I feel like once I complete it the first time, I pretty much gone through what the game has to offer. Doesn't really open itself up to fun challenge runs.

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While I think all of the non-gameplay elements like the writing, voice acting, art style, etc. are fantastic, Echoes is brought down for me by the amount of archaic and frustrating game design they retained from the original Gaiden.

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5 minutes ago, AzureSen said:

While I think all of the non-gameplay elements like the writing, voice acting, art style, etc. are fantastic, Echoes is brought down for me by the amount of archaic and frustrating game design they retained from the original Gaiden.

Welp, I don't have much to add here. I will say that some of the story elements bothered me a bit as well though, some of which could've been rather easily avoided. Echoes is a good experience, but it's unfortunately held back by a number of things, and I don't see myself returning for as many playthroughs as Awakening or even Fates.

It definitely sets the standard for the next Fire Emblem in terms of presentation though, that much is clear.

Edited by Thane
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It's pretty fantastic. The world building is great, the characters are full of personality and give looks into their pasts, which past FE games almost never did, the story is interesting, there's a bunch of fun mechanics, cool animations, good voice acting, FULL voice acting...  

Maps aren't a huge deal for me, and some maps in Echoes aren't even bad, but I can see how it could hurt someone's opinion of the game.

But with all the good this game brings, along with the nigh-confirmation of a bright future for the series, how can you call Echoes anything less than amazing?

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12 minutes ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

It's pretty fantastic. The world building is great, the characters are full of personality and give looks into their pasts, which past FE games almost never did, the story is interesting, there's a bunch of fun mechanics, cool animations, good voice acting, FULL voice acting...  

Maps aren't a huge deal for me, and some maps in Echoes aren't even bad, but I can see how it could hurt someone's opinion of the game.

But with all the good this game brings, along with the nigh-confirmation of a bright future for the series, how can you call Echoes anything less than amazing?

Yeah, voices bring these characters to life quite well, I love pretty much the whole cast barring a few select things, they have so much personality.

Edited by Jedi
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1 hour ago, AzureSen said:

While I think all of the non-gameplay elements like the writing, voice acting, art style, etc. are fantastic, Echoes is brought down for me by the amount of archaic and frustrating game design they retained from the original Gaiden.

Pretty much this. Story, music and graphical style are great, but there are a few gripes here and there. Problems inherited from Gaiden aside, I also find even the added parts (such as weapons) not well-balanced. Also, why the horribly compressed 2D movies and the non-support of playing music while the 3DS is closed? It's weird that you can play music in the sound test of New Mystery and Fates, but not Awakening and Echoes. Just… why?

I have yet to see a proper Fire Emblem game that managed to satisfy me on all fronts. If I have to pick one, it'd be The Sacred Stones — not my absolute favorite, but it also doesn't have obvious flaws in parts that I deem important (balance between classes is a big one). But that's a rather biased view, by the fact that it's the first FE I played seriously.

EDIT - That's my assessment on whether Shadows of Valentia is the best Fire Emblem. My answer on the poll question itself is different.

"Do you feel like the game has more life than any of its predecessors?"

The answer to this is a resounding yes. It gives a much better sense of immersion than any of the previous games, including Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE (which has voice acting in story cutscenes but not the NPC dialogs).

Edited by nocturnal YL
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2 hours ago, AzureSen said:

While I think all of the non-gameplay elements like the writing, voice acting, art style, etc. are fantastic, Echoes is brought down for me by the amount of archaic and frustrating game design they retained from the original Gaiden.

I mean...yeah...this...

Its a remake of a game from 1992...gameplay wise, it is what it is... (its a homage to how ahead of its time Gaiden was that 25 years later, the original gameplay still even kinda-sorta-holds up) 

But they hit a home-run with the character-building, storytelling, immersion, and lore. 

And that's encouraging. Because it shows that when I.S. puts their effort into character-building and storytelling and immersion and lore instead of skin-ships and dressing rooms and bathhouses and pillow-talk, they still know how to do it right.

Something that was being seriously called into question after Fates.

Like if nothing else, its just good to know I.S. still has the talent pool and the creative vision to treat the story elements this well.

Because that means that between the team responsible for translating gaiden to echoes and the team responsible for designing and playtesting the conquest campaign--they have everything they need to create the perfect game, if they bring it all together. 

And its just a matter of getting the right heads in the same room, under the right set of direction.  

Edited by Shoblongoo
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I say it is not the "best Fire Emblem game" because there are some issues with it (some map designs and BS enemies [Cantors, Witches]), but the presentation is sooo good! I can rave all day about how amazing Echoes is in terms of presentation - the voice work is top notch, the music is amazing, and the art is beautiful. The character interactions really bring everyone to life, especially with characters such as Gray/Tobin/Lukas and Mae/Boey/Saber chipping in every now and then.

If future Fire Emblems takes Echoes and refines its formula, I'll be a happy man. Echoes is the happiest I've been with a Fire Emblem title and I love it more than Awakening and Fates (considering I started back in the day with Sacred Stones). If Sacred Stones is remade, I highly look forward to the finished product. To think all the music re-imagined and the characters all voiced...

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After playing echoes...tellius is no longer my sole favorite of them all (the two games I mean). Now they have actual competition in terms of what I've played. Considering that the tellius series was famous for it's brilliant characters and story, that is no small feat to achieve. I just hope fire emblem switch continues this trend of a focus on world building and fleshing out characters. It takes itself seriously and not seriously a lot and surprisingly it works for me considering I usually hate things that feel very light hearted in some aspects. Yeah some of the maps are kind of weird and barren but the story more than makes up for it.

Edited by Dinar87
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36 minutes ago, Sire said:

I say it is not the "best Fire Emblem game" because there are some issues with it (some map designs and BS enemies [Cantors, Witches]), but the presentation is sooo good! I can rave all day about how amazing Echoes is in terms of presentation - the voice work is top notch, the music is amazing, and the art is beautiful. The character interactions really bring everyone to life, especially with characters such as Gray/Tobin/Lukas and Mae/Boey/Saber chipping in every now and then.

If future Fire Emblems takes Echoes and refines its formula, I'll be a happy man. Echoes is the happiest I've been with a Fire Emblem title and I love it more than Awakening and Fates (considering I started back in the day with Sacred Stones). If Sacred Stones is remade, I highly look forward to the finished product. To think all the music re-imagined and the characters all voiced...

...so much of this games charm, I'm realizing, comes from that banter between  gray/tobin/lukas and mae/boey/saber. Its a character-driven story. 

Thats what was missing in fates. You didn't have that banter and that character driven story; everything was just one big cock-stroking for corrin, and every other character was defined purely be their relationship to corrin. 

You needed that gray/tobin/lukas dynamic between cliques like xander/camilla/leo/elise, ryoma/takumi/hinoka/sakura, laswlow/selena/odin, kagero/kaze/saizo.

Something to make the cast of characters feel like a cast of characters--not just one big dysfunctional Corrin harem. 

As to FE8

Theres two things I would really like to see if they ever remake that game:


NEEDED

1) Lunatic difficulty. Really--the only thing egregiously wrong with FE8 was that there was nothing hard about its hard mode. If they just add another level of difficulty above hard and appropriately tool  it to challenge veteran players that were looking for more of a challenge--they would have an almost flawless game


NOT NEEDED, BUT COULD MAKE THE GAME MORE INTERESTING THEN JUST A STRAIGHT-REMAKE 

2) A Celica/Alm style path-split. Where you actually hit Eirika's route and Ephraim's route in the same play-through, and have to divide your army between them; choosing after their reunion chapter which units accompany which lord, and then being unable to rejoin them until their path's converge after Jehanna.

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2 hours ago, nocturnal YL said:

Pretty much this. Story, music and graphical style are great, but there are a few gripes here and there. Problems inherited from Gaiden aside, I also find even the added parts (such as weapons) not well-balanced. Also, why the horribly compressed 2D movies and the non-support of playing music while the 3DS is closed? It's weird that you can play music in the sound test of New Mystery and Fates, but not Awakening and Echoes. Just… why?

I have yet to see a proper Fire Emblem game that managed to satisfy me on all fronts. If I have to pick one, it'd be The Sacred Stones — not my absolute favorite, but it also doesn't have obvious flaws in parts that I deem important (balance between classes is a big one). But that's a rather biased view, by the fact that it's the first FE I played seriously.

EDIT - That's my assessment on whether Shadows of Valentia is the best Fire Emblem. My answer on the poll question itself is different.

"Do you feel like the game has more life than any of its predecessors?"

The answer to this is a resounding yes. It gives a much better sense of immersion than any of the previous games, including Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE (which has voice acting in story cutscenes but not the NPC dialogs).

There actually IS a sound test! At the title screen, press up down left right up to unlock it. (some track names are spoilers though)

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1 hour ago, Thane said:

To everyone praising the story and not the storytelling, are you done with the whole game, or are you just going by what you've seen so far?

I just started Chapter 4. The storytelling (presentation) is great, but the story itself does have its flaws... (Spoilers Ahead)

Spoiler

1. Conrad - From what I've read - he is the Masked Knight and helps Celica out on occasion, but when he joins up that seems to be it. There does not seem to be a "payoff" for his entire arc, it just suddenly ends. If this is the case, that is a shame. I enjoyed the Masked Knight from what I've seen so far, and if there is no payoff I'll be a sad man.

2. Alm vs Celica - The argument between the two and their separate paths are supposed to be a thing, but even during the argument I had to side with Alm. Celica is deliberately hiding her true identity while Alm is simply fighting for what he believes in. It doesn't help that we get to see more of Alm after the argument than Celica as she quickly seems to refocus herself on her mission instead of Alm, while Alm laments he had so many things left to say to Celica. Sure, the two think of each other when they are apart, but I feel more for Alm than for Celica. (Arguably, Alm may have "set Celica off" or "pushed one of Celica's buttons" on accident since he didn't know, but still.)

Also, apparently the argument becomes moot when the ultimate goal of the game more or less is leaning towards Alm being right (and the master plan of Rudolf), as well as Celica making some poor judgements late in the storyline. I haven't gotten there yet and can understand Celica is under a lot of pressure (especially with time taking its toll on her), but Alm too has his pressures leading the Deliverance. Leading an army and fighting enemy soldiers that have a cause is far different than leading a merry band of pilgrims and fighting against pirates, slavers, cultists, and monsters.

3. Fernand - This is more of a "tell, not show" situation regarding his belief when dealing with his hatred for commoners. The player is told that Fernand's family died during an uprising, and while this can explain his character, it just doesn't feel right. I believe if Fernand's story was told through a Memory Prism (so a flashback seeing Fernand's family get murdered by peasants), this could have made him a bit more sympathetic. It would be even more sympathetic if his house tried to help the peasants, but it was not enough. As it stands, the lack of information makes me perceive Fernand as just a jerk who sided with the enemy and does not seem to have any redeeming qualities. (The DLC may help with some of this, as I think Fernand is playable in the Deliverance DLC, so he may have a glimmer of hope yet.)

4. Berkut and Rinea - Suffers from the same problem of Fernand by mostly being one-dimensional characters. Berkut is obsessed with power and the nobility like Fernand and does not seem to have any notable traits, while Rinea only exists to support Berkut's story arc. Maybe this will change as I progress through Chapter 4 and beyond, but so far I am not too impressed with Berkut.

Also, I hear that Alm suddenly forgives Berkut or something. Alm forgiving Fernand is something I can understand, but Berkut? After what he sacrifices? Alm, you may be a good guy and all, but do you need Gray to explain to you that Berkut is not really a candidate for redemption?...

5. Nomah - ...Why does he suddenly show up? I guess if he was supposed to be a secret bonus character, then that's fine, but story wise I have no idea why Nomah would show up in a temple that was previously flooded moments ago.

* * * * *

As for some good points though, I am liking the side arc with Clive thus far. He believed in the Deliverance and in Alm, but his faith started to waver after slowly unraveling the true heritage of Alm. The scene at the sluice was nice, especially since I managed to save Delthea. I look forward to how Clive's arc develops as the game progresses.

I am also enjoying Alm's story a bit more than Celica's. Liberating Zofia and Valentia is a more interesting story than an adventure to a temple with detours, then attempting to save a Goddess (although the latter may be interesting, I'll need to play it first though).

Edit: Remember that while I love the presentation of Echoes, Fates: Conquest and the Tellius games still have the best gameplay due to the varying objectives and awesome map designs.

Edited by Sire
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35 minutes ago, Thane said:

To everyone praising the story and not the storytelling, are you done with the whole game, or are you just going by what you've seen so far?

From what I've gathered from playing the remake and knowing all about the original, the story is about as good as any other FE's.  There are some elements I like late game, particularly one of the villains, who I think is a better antagonist than FE's standard fair of mad kings, scheming necromancers, "tragic heroes who stupidly choose to fight you for no good reason", and evil dragons.  Though I have no idea if they get much development as of yet...  They might just wind up as another Walhart.

I've gotten more than halfway through, and there are plenty of things I see that could be improved.  Fernand's dilemma, some bosses lacking an actual verbal interaction with the player (they just yell some lines before you fight, and then say something not really directed at anyone in particular in their dying breath), and some exposition dialogue where memory prisms could do a better job are some examples of this.  But it definitely isn't as bad as some in this regard.

Anyway, I do think this should be a new standard for presentation and storytelling in FE.  And I think the limited cast was a good thing, even if they still kinda fumbled that by limiting the dialogue of some.  Gameplay-wise, I like using the combat arts, though I wish there were some specific to certain characters like in Fates (and I mean aside from the Whitewings' Triangle Attack).  The maps... aren't the worst thing in the world, but they're certainly no Conquest.

This being said, I can neither confirm nor deny that this is the best FE.  It really has to do with what you value in the game.  All those who value the challenge in FE will be sorely disappointed in this game, because most "challenges" are more exercises in tedium.  Fans of story will enjoy the presentation, but tastes will vary otherwise.  For myself, I value all aspects of a game, and I appreciate it more when gameplay and story work in tandem.  I have yet to decide if Echoes does that well enough yet.  Also, I'm bad about listing best to worst; I simply can't decide upon an absolute "favorite".  I only have a group of favorites that I generally value approximately to each other, if that makes any sense at all.

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So, this is definitely my favorite FE, but I'd disagree with it being the "best". I've only finished Birthright, Revelations, and Awakening so my judgement can always be wrong. I'm never going to say there is a best unless I've played all of them.

I love the art, the voices, the storytelling, the characters, I kind of like "Acts" more than "chapters, a lot of things to like about it. But it feels a lot less like Fire Emblem to me. Pretty much because Gaiden wanted to be something else. It's not a bad thing that it's different, but it shouldn't set the bar for future Fire Emblems. I would like if they followed the current FE gameplay but I think Gaiden did a good job at giving us something new to work with. 

I kind of liked the open maps, but a little too much of it does me no good. Desert maps can go to hell though.

Edited by KongDude
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It's definitely the most fun I had with a FE game in a while. This came out long so I'm gonna spoiler tag it, plus I mention some details that may include light spoilers. I wouldn't say it's the best, but here's some things I though it did right:
 

Spoiler

 

Characters- the majority of the cast isn't one note, and this majority has personalities that have been shaped by their experiences and goals in life. They're well-rounded. The fact that supports are more limited now also helps, as we were able to dive in more to their desires and reactions, rather than rely on their clutch (gimmick) or have sexual tension. Although not all characters got a lot of support conversations, such as Genny and Luthier (they both have 1), it makes sense for their characters, because they're both introverted. Not every character is well-rounded though, and there's only one gimmick character (Faye). Although the villains do have more presence in this game compared to some recent titles, it seemed like they were trying to build some sympathy for them, but it wasn't developed to its potential. They tried though. Also Hidari did a great job designing them. The armor isn't as fanservice-y, and there's a lot of attention to detail (like the scratches on the armor of Valbar, who's been fighting). And the pastel and lighter colors nicely compliment the fact that this is a remake, so it isn't super flashy. Although I will admit some of the CGs and the breast plates were exceptions to this, but characters were still more considerably covered up. Lastly, the VA is so good. For an English dub, I though they did a really good job. Zeke, Berkut, and Lukas' baritone voices get to me. Also, Mae reminds me of Amy Poehler.

Storytelling- although there are problems with the story (what FE doesn't have this type of problem though), they had a really interesting and open way of telling it. Unlike the other 3DS games, we finally get cut scenes that feature only the villains again. We haven't really seen this since RD, so it's nice to see what's going on with the other side from time to time. The game itself feels more open, as events trigger at the pace of your progress. Although some of the origins of certain characters become too obvious, so you can pretty much guess what their origin is, despite them not knowing/keeping it a secret. This area isn't perfect, and I felt like there are some cases where memory cogs were needed though.

Forging- it's quick and easy.

Worldbuilding- we actually know the name of the continent, how the geography affects the countries in question, and the religious practices of certain areas. The villagers aren't stupid and apolitical, and can reveal interesting information about the town, enemy faction, etc. The little dialogue about the dungeon you're exploring is also a nice touch. Also, the game has a Greco-Roman aesthetic, which is fitting, because Roman Empire can be compared to the Rigelian empire.

Archers- they're actually really useful in this game without being broken. They're great because they have nice range, but they have less than stellar accuracy rates, and archers may have problems doubling certain enemies.

 

As for the areas that need improvement:

Spoiler

MAPS- y'all know the problem so NEXT.

Grinding- This is in every RPG, where you have to monotonously fight weak enemies to gain experience. It's not a huge problem, and maybe it's because I'm playing on normal, but there's no challenge to this, I'm not finished with the game yet, but there's only been 1 temple that provided that challenge, so I'm hoping the future temples provide this much needed challenge. I feel like the game punishes you for grinding, so it's better to not do it at times.

Story- there are some parts of the story that need work. Overall, it's pretty solid, but there's some discrepancies like @Sire pointed out. I don't really think they detract too much from the game, but there are issues though.

Dungeons- although it makes sense in this game, the dungeons seem more like caverns with an individual motif that's placed throughout, and some have dead ends that lead to no rewards for some reason. They're great for a first game, but if they're gonna be in future entries, I hope they're more than just caverns with a certain aesthetic. However, I don't find this a big problem, and some of them were pretty cool backstory-wise, especially with the Greco-Roman aesthetic of the game, so the mythology references in one particular dungeon were nice.

Sidequests- most of the time they were just fetch quests. I'm saying most mainly because I'm not sure if dungeons + rescuing Tatiana & Delthea count as sidequests. Plus, there were a couple of times that I found it more rewarding to keep a requested item rather than give it up.

Overall, I'm really enjoying this game though. A lot of people are saying it doesn't have a lot of replay-value, but I'd disagree. The villager promotion paths, certain characters, and the option to completely bypass certain events/characters can make it interesting gameplay-wise. But you do you. Although some aspects seem dated, this game is still polished pretty well. It's a strong title in the series though, and I think it shows how good the B Team can do a remake.

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Definitely tied for favorite. While I know other FE games are objectively better game-play wise, this is probably my personal favorite for that kind of stuff. I really do enjoy it and even the maps lmao. It really nailed the things I really like in not only a FE game, but a RPG game as well. So 10/10 would play again.

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Err...is there a it's really good, but not the best in my opinion option?

It's really good and I love that they remade what Gaiden was into a modern era with some modern Fire Emblem flair.  I kind of hope they include these traditional RPG stuff like visiting and looking around villages and talking to NPCs or teammates in future Fire Emblem games.  Even the way the story is presented and told is fantastic and is on par, for me, with the Tellius series.  Even the sidequests were a nice change of pace since you normally don't see these kinds of sidequests in FE games.

My biggest gripe is how repetitive fighting things in dungeons are.  While I like that they made dungeons open for exploration, things got kind of boring for me in dungeons.  And after a while, I get bored of fighting things in dungeons and I just do what I can to avoid them so I don't have to sit through it all again.  I don't quite know how they would remedy this, but it's not a huge deal in the overall game.  Oh and RNG screwed me over plenty of times, but that's just an FE thing.  Like c'mon Leon you had a 98 Hit and you missed!?

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I really like the game but I don't think I can put it over Awakening or Radiant Dawn which are my all time favorites. I like the voice acting a lot and I would love to see the team continue this trend. I will say it is strange to be so dependent on the RNG, see so many misses, and everything about the weapons. I think this game is a great jumping off point into fire emblem. I'm still torn on the dungeon exploration but I'm not done yet so I might change my mind on it. 

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