Explosion at Manchester Arena

[Time the Crestfallen]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/manchester-arena-explosions-two-loud-10478734

This was an Ariana Grande concert; a teen pop-star.

Someone nail-bombed an arena full of pre-teen/teenagers, killing at least 20 people.

Jesus...

[Moblin Major General]

16 minutes ago, Mortarion said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/manchester-arena-explosions-two-loud-10478734

This was an Ariana Grande concert; a teen pop-star.

Someone nail-bombed an arena full of pre-teen/teenagers, killing at least 20 people.

Jesus...

Killing children in places they shouldn't have to feel vulnerable is low and sickening. Children died for what? I am really asking this question, as any rhetorical remark cheapens the disgust and shock this brings. To make things worse, this may encourage the Conservatives to expedite Brexit purely out of jingoism.

[Tetragrammaton]

8 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Killing children in places they shouldn't have to feel vulnerable is low and sickening. Children died for what? I am really asking this question, as any rhetorical remark cheapens the disgust and shock this brings. To make things worse, this may encourage the Conservatives to expedite Brexit purely out of jingoism.

Talking about terrorism.

There are children soldiers in battlefield so please don't be naive to believe they will show mercy to their enemies children.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

It really looks like a suicide-attack.
However it's still unclear, if it's connected to the IS.

Anyways this is definitely the worst attack lately since lots of young people were involved.

Edit: IS claimed that they're responsible for this, but there's no proof for it yet.
 

Edited May 23, 2017 by アリサ ラインフォルト

[SetoBakura]

One of the articles i read had a quote from someone who was there, and she said there was no security check or anything to get into the arena.  She said they just scanned your ticket and that was it.  I don't know if that is normal procedure over in the UK or if they took a lax approach because of the nature of the concert and fan base, but here in the US, you go through a metal detector before entering an arena/stadium.

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by SetoBakura

[Water Mage]

If I'm being honest, I actually have doubts that the IS is the one responsible for this attack, despite them claiming responsibility for it. 

That being said, trying to advantage of such a tragic incident that killed even children is pretty despicable itself.

[Time the Crestfallen]

10 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Killing children in places they shouldn't have to feel vulnerable is low and sickening. Children died for what? I am really asking this question, as any rhetorical remark cheapens the disgust and shock this brings. To make things worse, this may encourage the Conservatives to expedite Brexit purely out of jingoism.

They don't call it terrorism for nothing. If you can't go to a teen-pop concert without the risk of injury/death, they've done their job.

2 hours ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

Edit: IS confirmed they're responsible for this.
 

IS would claim responsibility for the common cold and spilt milk if they could get away with it. I'd rather wait until we know who the perpetrator is before making any conclusions.

[Elieson]

After the bombingsg in soccer stadiums that Europe has already seen, I hate to be a jerk about this but I expect that UK would have high standards for arena entry (security). Is it confirmed how "secure" things were?

[Res]

2 hours ago, SetoBakura said:

One of the articles i read had a quote from someone who was there, and she said there was no security check or anything to get into the arena.  She said they just scanned your ticket and that was it.  I don't know if that is normal procedure over in the UK or if they took a lax approach because of the nature of the concert and fan base, but here in the US, you go through a metal detector before entering an arena/stadium.

Last time I attended a concert in the UK there was no security check.

The only times I recall encountering security checks are in London in their museums/art galleries.

[Water Mage]

20 minutes ago, Res said:

Last time I attended a concert in the UK there was no security check.

The only times I recall encountering security checks are in London in their museums/art galleries.

I was reading one of the interviews of the people there, and one person does mention that there was no security check in the show that day.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Water Mage

[Tryhard]

14 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Killing children in places they shouldn't have to feel vulnerable is low and sickening. Children died for what? I am really asking this question, as any rhetorical remark cheapens the disgust and shock this brings.

I think Europe in general sees terrorists very differently.

http://jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/Naught-but-an-Irritation-572119364

[Moblin Major General]

39 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

I think Europe in general sees terrorists very differently.

http://jollyjack.deviantart.com/art/Naught-but-an-Irritation-572119364

Well, when you have to deal with a power-hungry tyrant every 2 or 3 lifetimes, you become ambivalent to just about everything else in the world. The United States is basically untouchable (Canada and Mexico would be stupid to stir up shit), so terrorists relish in the fact that most of the US is too busy looking at Russia through a telescope to notice the assassin behind them, knife in hand.

[Shoblongoo]

10 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

 The United States is basically untouchable.

Ohhhhhhhhhh no we're not.

 

[Moblin Major General]

Just now, Shoblongoo said:

Ohhhhhhhhhh no we're not.

We were invaded only once, over 200 years ago, by the British in a war that, on the whole, was totally inconsequential to them. Sure, we could be nuked into oblivion, but exactly what would that accomplish? Absolutely jack shit, that's what.

[Shoblongoo]

2 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

We were invaded only once, over 200 years ago, by the British in a war that, on the whole, was totally inconsequential to them. Sure, we could be nuked into oblivion, but exactly what would that accomplish? Absolutely jack shit, that's what.

 

Ehhhhhh. 200 years on top isn’t all that impressive in the grand scheme of things, TBH.  

That’s like…half a Dynasty in the span of Chinese history…

One length of …okay…this new-fangled ‘Empire’ has all the gold and all the weapons; it owns everything now. Anddddd its gone... in Hebrew/Arab/Persian history…

And…what…20% of the history of ‘unconquerable’ Rome???

…more-to-the-point…

America has no shortage of home-grown radicals. Most of the same security vulnerabilities as Europe (our one advantage being that we don’t share a land border with the Middle East). And ALOT more guns floating around, for any radicalized wingnut who wants to carry out a mass killing to stockpile.

I think the difference in America and our attitude is that we’re such a violent country and have so many mass killings on a regular basis—when these types of attacks happen here, it doesn’t have the same kind of resounding impact on the national psyche.
 

Like, we’re just use to turning on the news every few months and hearing: “Unidentified gunman opens fire on downtown strip; 20 reported dead.” It happens so often. It doesn’t phase us anymore.

You literally have to hijack an airplane, crash it into one of our skyscrapers, and kill 3,000 people to make us go “Ok…That’s a problem…”  

…Conversely, in Taiwan, its national news and the worst thing that’s happened in 20 years if a crazy guy with a knife stabs 4 people, before being subdued…

History is long, memories are short, and nothing happens in a vacuum

Edited May 23, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[Tryhard]

17 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Like, we’re just use to turning on the news every few months and hearing: “Unidentified gunman opens fire on downtown strip; 20 reported dead.” It happens so often. It doesn’t phase us anymore.

You literally have to hijack an airplane, crash it into one of our skyscrapers, and kill 3,000 people to make us go “Ok…That’s a problem…”  

…Conversely, in Taiwan, its national news and the worst thing that’s happened in 20 years if a crazy guy with a knife stabs 4 people, before being subdued…

History is long, memories are short, and nothing happens in a vacuum

While you're right about mass shootings, you're lying if you think no-one pays attention to regular terrorist attacks (in comparison unreasonably considering how many mass shootings occur and all people care about is when it is done for terroristic purposes) in the US.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Tryhard

[Shoblongoo]

23 hours ago, Tryhard said:

While you're right about mass shootings, you're lying if you think no-one pays attention to regular terrorist attacks (in comparison unreasonably considering how many mass shootings occur and all people care about is when it is done for terroristic purposes) in the US.

…Here’s what I’ve noticed about the way people respond to these kinds of stories in America, and I don’t know if this is true in European countries. I hope it isn’t. Because its symptomatic of everything that’s wrong with our politics right now, and why our 200 year streak probably isn’t going to last a whole lot longer.

Whenever there is breaking news of an attack…the first thing people want to know is is it terrorism is the attacker a religiously-motivated Muslim?

 

If [YES]

…we don’t call the attack a ‘crime’. We call it ‘terrorism.’ Not only the attacker himself is impugned, but entire groups of non-guilty persons by way of his actions. The rightwing immediately turns us into a its-our-people-vs-their-people story and plays up the anti-Immigrant + anti-Muslim angle and moves for more refugee bans and deportations, while the Left downplays the significance of the attack  or need for any corrective policy and accuses the right of being politically exploitative.   

 

If [NO]

…we don’t call it ‘terrorism.’ We call it a ‘crime.’ The attacker is identified as ‘mentally ill’ and his actions are surmised to be the product of a defective mind; it is said that his actions are the consequence of a society that does not provide adequate services for the mentally ill and where people like the attacker “fall through the cracks.” The left says it’s a tragedy and calls for corrective policy in the form of increased gun control + public funding for mental health services, while the right downplays and accuses the left of being politically exploitative.

And there’s never a meeting-of-the-minds. Never a moment for sober thought and serious reflection.

…This is why we can’t have nice things…

Edited May 24, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[Time the Crestfallen]

3 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

…Here’s what I’ve noticed about the way people respond to these kinds of stories in America, and I don’t know if this is true in European countries. I hope it isn’t. Because its symptomatic of everything that’s wrong with our politics right now, and why our 200 year streak probably isn’t going to last a whole lot longer.

Whenever there is breaking news of an attack…the first thing people want to know is is it terrorism is the attacker a religiously-motivated Muslim?

<Snip>

And everything that goes against the narrative is ignored; like the fact that IS has killed far more Muslims then Westerners and all the Christian terrorist groups (Anti-Balaka for example) in Africa and other places we don't give a shit about.

[Ein]

Another Muslim cleansing his soul of his past sins through jihad by killing the kafir.

[Shoblongoo]

18 hours ago, Mortarion said:

And everything that goes against the narrative is ignored; like the fact that IS has killed far more Muslims then Westerners and all the Christian terrorist groups (Anti-Balaka for example) in Africa and other places we don't give a shit about.

Notice how you never here them do the "...well this guy was obviously mentally ill..." dance when its a jihadist. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Shoblongoo

[Tryhard]

21 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

…Here’s what I’ve noticed about the way people respond to these kinds of stories in America, and I don’t know if this is true in European countries. I hope it isn’t. Because its symptomatic of everything that’s wrong with our politics right now, and why our 200 year streak probably isn’t going to last a whole lot longer.

Whenever there is breaking news of an attack…the first thing people want to know is is it terrorism is the attacker a religiously-motivated Muslim?

 

If [YES]

…we don’t call the attack a ‘crime’. We call it ‘terrorism.’ Not only the attacker himself is impugned, but entire groups of non-guilty persons by way of his actions. The rightwing immediately turns us into a its-our-people-vs-their-people story and plays up the anti-Immigrant + anti-Muslimism angle and moves for more refugee bans and deportations, while the Left downplays the significance of the attack  or need for any corrective policy and accuses the right of being politically exploitative.   

 

If [NO]

…we don’t call it ‘terrorism.’ We call it a ‘crime.’ The attacker is identified as ‘mentally ill’ and his actions are surmised to be the product of a defective mind; it is said that his actions are the consequence of a society that does not provide adequate services for the mentally ill and where people like the attacker “fall through the cracks.” The left says it’s a tragedy and calls for corrective policy in the form of increased gun control + public funding for mental health services, while the right downplays and accuses the left of being politically exploitative.

And there’s never a meeting-of-the-minds. Never a moment for sober thought and serious reflection.

…This is why we can’t have nice things…

You have a point, but at the same time I do think there's a difference in calling for common sense gun control laws (since guns are not going to be abolished in the US soon) that even Independent and Republican voters can get behind, and some vague attempt at we need to curb immigration or refugees or increase deportation without really giving the specifics on how this would be achieved. It seems like the right would be content with just banning immigration from majorly Muslim countries like Trump tried to do which isn't reasonable at all in my opinion, and while I would be willing to hear an argument on stricter refugee and immigration policy, many people don't know that the procedure is already quite strict to do legally.

[Res]

The U.S. continues to leak information on the attack...

Edit: It's also worth noting that, as in many other terrorist attacks, the suspect was born and raised in the U.K.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Res

[eclipse]

4 hours ago, Ein said:

Another Muslim cleansing his soul of his past sins through jihad by killing the kafir.

Look, we get it, you're not fond of Islam.  So, I'm going to ask you to either show a shitton of restraint while commenting on such things, or I start issuing warnings.  At least post something pertinent to the attack, rather than some broad sweeping claim.

4 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Notice how you never here them do the "...well this guy was obviously mentally ill..." dance when its a jihadist. 

You seem to have A Point.  Otherwise, you wouldn't post two walls, both of which randomly become unreadable on the Night Forest theme.  If you can find a way to get it across, respectfully, go for it.

3 hours ago, Res said:

The U.S. continues to leak information on the attack...

Edit: It's also worth noting that, as in many other terrorist attacks, the suspect was born and raised in the U.K.

This doesn't surprise me in the least.

---

My condolences to everyone that had to deal with this mess.  I'll reserve my opinions of the perpetrator until there's more info available.

[Flee Fleet!]

On 5/24/2017 at 2:15 AM, Shoblongoo said:

If [NO]

…we don’t call it ‘terrorism.’ We call it a ‘crime.’ The attacker is identified as ‘mentally ill’ and his actions are surmised to be the product of a defective mind; it is said that his actions are the consequence of a society that does not provide adequate services for the mentally ill and where people like the attacker “fall through the cracks.” The left says it’s a tragedy and calls for corrective policy in the form of increased gun control + public funding for mental health services, while the right downplays and accuses the left of being politically exploitative.

That actually reminds me of the time when some guy killed a muslim family and then intentionally got himself arrested by the police, claiming that he did it because of a "parking dispute". And then some investigation and what not happened and apparently the "parking dispute" thing was a lie, and there was even a TED talk of one of the family members of the victims stating how there never was a parking dispute to begin with.

 

Anyways, my condolences to the family of the victims in this attack. One of the more prominent of the victims was an 8 year old girl, who I'm especially sad for. Because really (and I may sound weird saying this), but killing children just seems like a desperate tactic to get attention. And I'm "partially fine" with an adult getting killed because at least they lived a long enough life to experience the world, whereas a child would barely ever experience life to the fullest.

[Camus The Dark Knight]

Quote

And I'm "partially fine" with an adult getting killed because at least they lived a long enough life to experience the world

"partially fine"?

What does that mean exactly?