Is it just me, or archers aren't very good this game?

[maninbluejumpsuit]

1 hour ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

Can someone tell how to make them useful early on without investing too much coins for forging?

Also are Cliff or Gray better potential archers because Tobin completly failed?

The main issue with them is that they're slow and inaccurate, and in the beginning you don't have access to blacksmiths.

Before getting a killer bow, I think the archers are just a resounding 'meh' in most situations, and not much else you can do to fix it outside of dlc probably.

I think Gray can make a good archer later on with a killer bow for the same reason Atlas would; the only decent growths he has is atk, and HP, hunter's volley ignores their bad speed, and helps their average/bad skill with bonus hitrate. The thing is, I wouldn't want to give up dreadfighter Gray for a playthrough. May as well use Python; his bases are similar to Gray's, atk and skill growth are similar, but speed growth is notably better.

In a vacuum, Kliff would make a decent archer with slightly better growths in speed, and skill over Python, but lower atk growth. The issue is, *someone* needs to be a mage, and Kliff is pretty much the best candidate for it.

In my latest playthrough, I made both Gray, and Tobin mercs. Carting one killer bow-less archer per side until midgame was enough for me.

[FoxyGrandpa]

Kliff was a really good archer for me. Thanks to the hit support bonuses he gets from characters like Tobin, he is usually pretty accurate, even if the enemy is on a forrest tile or something similar. An issue with the archer class for him, however, is that his defensive growths are compromised.

A big issue for the archer class in this game in general is that all bows drop speed by a substantial amount. I decided to not even give some characters liike kliff a bow because of this issue.

[Djing]

I found archers to be my best units in this game due how deathly afraid i am of approaching mages.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

10 hours ago, maninbluejumpsuit said:

Before getting a killer bow, I think the archers are just a resounding 'meh' in most situations, and not much else you can do to fix it outside of dlc probably.

I think Gray can make a good archer later on with a killer bow for the same reason Atlas would; the only decent growths he has is atk, and HP, hunter's volley ignores their bad speed, and helps their average/bad skill with bonus hitrate. The thing is, I wouldn't want to give up dreadfighter Gray for a playthrough. May as well use Python; his bases are similar to Gray's, atk and skill growth are similar, but speed growth is notably better.

In a vacuum, Kliff would make a decent archer with slightly better growths in speed, and skill over Python, but lower atk growth. The issue is, *someone* needs to be a mage, and Kliff is pretty much the best candidate for it.

In my latest playthrough, I made both Gray, and Tobin mercs. Carting one killer bow-less archer per side until midgame was enough for me.

I see.

The main problem for me is that archers can't get much exp. early because - as I said - they miss often and can be used only in player phase to chip.
When you can forge it's normally too late for them to become useful unless I overgrind in dungeons what I don't do.

Even with a great forged bow they're only PP units. Semi decent mages with magic ring are already more useful in combat because of their better accuracy.

[TheGreatNothing]

You don't even know how many cantors I have assassinated with my archers. They're crazy useful against them. 

[r_n]

4 hours ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

I see.

The main problem for me is that archers can't get much exp. early because - as I said - they miss often and can be used only in player phase to chip.
When you can forge it's normally too late for them to become useful unless I overgrind in dungeons what I don't do.

Even with a great forged bow they're only PP units. Semi decent mages with magic ring are already more useful in combat because of their better accuracy.

Establish supports as soon as you can and try to keep them in their range; even though not all of them give hit rates (leon/valbar only gets +5 hit on the final support) the crit & avoid rates help a lot. Keep using iron & steel bows until you get curved/heavy shot: being able to guarantee a hit is great. I always brought mine into dungeons too, since bonus exp meant they could more easily stay relevant so long as they contribute even a little bit.

Even with shaky accuracy, they're still pretty useful on enemy phase. I usually had ~thunder's accuracy at worst unless the upper tier terrains were in play.

I did try to feed Python/Leon some kills early on but I was doing that for...everyone. so...

[ChibiToastExplosion]

2 hours ago, ThatOneWeakArcher said:

You don't even know how many cantors I have assassinated with my archers. They're crazy useful against them. 

This. I have never really had a unit as useful and sometimes to the point as overwhelmingly dominant as Tobin has been as a bow knight this run.

Seriously, Tobin can circle Nuibaba's temple and pick off the outer cantors one by one as the rest of your forces deal with the gargoyle spam. Tobin can accurately run up, snipe witches, pick off cantors, and chip at other range units.

Special props to a forged iron bow, which while is no killer bow, has a pretty useful skill to almost gaurantee a hit and iron bow is really accurate for a bow. Also cheap to forge.

[cabbage5k2]

Kliff's fantastic as an archer from my experience, his excellent speed growth's, good strength and defense growths, his hit rate boost support with Tobin, and his starting resistance of 8 means that many enemy arcanists/witches are killed swiftly, many enemy archers die swiftly, and he's excellent at chipping off beefier enemies so then other characters can land kills.  I've only been using a steel bow on him as well, so this is without using the killer bow.  He does have a pretty slow start though, and definitely benefits from some early stat boosting shrine support, but he shines pretty well in this roles regardless.  I'm only at the end of act 3 though, so this might change by end game material.

[maninbluejumpsuit]

10 hours ago, ThatOneWeakArcher said:

You don't even know how many cantors I have assassinated with my archers. They're crazy useful against them. 

Outside of random skirmishes, i'm pretty sure most of the worst cantors in game are encountered sitting on supplies for the +40 avo and heal. I had to assassinate them with excalibur mages.

Edited June 4, 2017 by maninbluejumpsuit

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

7 hours ago, r_n said:

Establish supports as soon as you can and try to keep them in their range; even though not all of them give hit rates (leon/valbar only gets +5 hit on the final support) the crit & avoid rates help a lot. Keep using iron & steel bows until you get curved/heavy shot: being able to guarantee a hit is great. I always brought mine into dungeons too, since bonus exp meant they could more easily stay relevant so long as they contribute even a little bit.

Even with shaky accuracy, they're still pretty useful on enemy phase. I usually had ~thunder's accuracy at worst unless the upper tier terrains were in play.

I did try to feed Python/Leon some kills early on but I was doing that for...everyone. so...

To my disappointment I noticed that most supports don't really improve the hitrate.
I think the A support of Tobin x Gray only gave Tobin +5% (if any). 
I used him mainly to drag out cantors, but as I stated before, he had issues to hit them. I think ~80-85% was the highest possible hitrate I've seen on him yet. 
Also giving him iron / steel bows screws him more than it helps him because he loses speed, and his speed isn't the best anyways. He tends to get doubled by bow knights and even witches. These weapons are only useful, if you can lower their weight which requires money. 


As for kantors:

• Enemy phase: I drag them out with archers. Can mages with magic ring counter from 3 or 4 range too?
• Player phase: I take them out with thunder and archers. But when I got the magic ring, I kill them only with a sage / priestess who has this equipped. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

Snipers (not so much Archers) are quite useful as artillery units in this game. Any stat issues mean little when they shoot from afar with no chance of being countered. They're pretty good by the series's standards.

[Locke087]

It is just you Archer are easily some of the best units in the game. I rank the classes as:

1. Alm and Celica 

2. Magic users

3. Archers

4. Peggy's 

5. Merc (mostly because Lighting Sword is OP)

6. Cav

7. Knights

[Emperor Hardin]

The default archers have somewhat low skill, but even then their skill growth has been raised tremendously.

Put any decent villager in the archer class and they will easily rise to greatness.

[bethany81707]

You could be worse. You could be like me and forget rockets archers can move and fire on the same turn.

[maninbluejumpsuit]

7 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

You could be worse. You could be like me and forget rockets archers can move and fire on the same turn.

Advance wars has been ded for years. How do you still have that habit? :/

[bethany81707]

6 hours ago, maninbluejumpsuit said:

Advance wars has been ded for years. How do you still have that habit? :/

I bought my first Advance Wars game at the same time as Echoes, and the former hooked me long enough to play all the way through to Green Earth before I wound up getting my first archer.

It also doesn't help that archers here have the same upper range as rockets, while most archers in FE manage the range of artillery at best.

Edited June 7, 2017 by phineas81707

[maninbluejumpsuit]

2 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

I bought my first Advance Wars game at the same time as Echoes, and the former hooked me long enough to play all the way through to Green Earth before I wound up getting my first archer.

It also doesn't help that archers here have the same upper range as rockets, while most archers in FE manage the range of artillery at best.

Oh. Well welcome to advance wars. For tactical gameplay, all of the games except for Dual strike are good.

Dual strike's power creep is silly between stealth fighters, and tag powers instantly crippling the enemy/outright winning. Eagle + Sami = 3 turns, and instant capture of any property.

Stealth fighters were stupid for their ability to attack every unit in the game (except a submerged submarine) for effective damage, and only worry about their fuel, and being attacked by fighters, and stealth fighters if they're even found at all.

Edited June 7, 2017 by maninbluejumpsuit