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So, tomorrow I will get my game...

I want don't want to open up many topics, as I got unwanted spoilers in CQ / Awakening before...

For my first playthrough in Hard, what should I turn my villagers into?

Tobin > Mage
Gray > Merc
Kliff > Cav
Faye > Cleric

Atlas > Merc

I've seen some topics, telling me above. But most aren't too sure about Kliff. Are archers bad in this game? Even with big movement? Will they promote in horsemen? Or snipers?

Any other good units I can wait for? Or should I try to get most of my villagers? (names are not spoilers :D )

Last, are level-ups set? Like in Fates Lunatic? Or can I try min/maxing? Thanks.

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A lot of people say to make Kliff a mage, and he also gets interesting spells, so there's that possibility.

I've also heard that Faye does well as a Pegasus Knight too, but gets interesting spells as a Cleric as well.

 

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I went with Kliff as mage since he's pretty good as one.  Archers are getting mixed reception from what I can tell.  They're useful to chip away at enemies though, so that's always a plus.  They promote into Sniper which then promote into Bow Knights, all of which are useful in their own right.

I will always suggest to promote as soon as you can, there's really no point in maxing a character to 20 or whatever and then promoting, just promote.

You'll also discover which characters gel with your style more than others, so have fun with them. =]

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Faye - Making her a cleric should be really good, she gains Physic pretty early which is one of the best healing spells, and having a second healer in Alm's route should help a lot. (I'm doing hard mode right now, and I'm doing well with only Silque, but having two healers would help a lot).

Kliff - People make him a mage because he gets good spells, thunder being one (1-3 range helps). But he does well in other classes because of his good Spd growth. 

Tobin - He does not get a lot of spells as a mage, but he does get Physic later. 

Gray - Merc or Cav is good for him. He has a higher attack growth than the other villagers, so he wants to deal damage.

 

Atlas - He's in a bad spot, his highest growths are Atk and HP, and he joins late. Merc is good for him because you want to improve his speed.

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@SSJDennis

I recommend... (based off Hard Classic and starting Chapter 4)

Gray -> Mercenary (He practically always wants to be a Mercenary, I find it difficult to picture him as anything else.)
Tobin -> Archer (Some may prefer Tobin as a Mage, but my Archer Tobin is like Legolas and kicks so much ***. It's a matter of preference - do you like having a strong early spellcaster that can eventually learn Physic or do you like to attack stuff at long range?)
Kliff -> Mage (I personally love Kliff as a mage due to his wide variety of spells, and being paired up with Tobin helps a lot with his Hit Rates [since magic hit rate is locked.] I think I may have shown some favoritism towards Kliff because he is comparable to Mae in my current run [although Mae still hits harder due to her ATT])
Faye -> Cleric (While I personally run Cavalier Faye, I hear Mathilda is one of the better characters of the game and she is a female Paladin. Also, Alm has plenty of Cavalier characters, so having another Cavalier may be redundant. // As for being a Cleric, the extra heals can go a long way and Faye can learn the "Anew" spell which allows her to "dance" for an ally. // Another possibility is Mage for early Seraphim to help Alm's party deal with Terrors when they show up. // Lastly, there is Pegasus Knight as that class seems to showcase Faye a lot in the promotional materials, but arguably there is Clair as a Pegasus Knight and she shows up fairly early.)
TLDR Faye: Cleric > Mage > Pegasus Knight > Cavalier 

Atlas -> Mercenary (I found the stat boosts upon promotion too good to pass up, even though I originally planned on making him an Archer. Then again, I really don't plan on having Atlas on my main team and Celica already has tons of Mercenaries, so yeah...)

* * * * *

As for units, I'll leave the latecomers out as they tend to be good when they join up, and planning that far ahead is a little crazy.

Good Units - Alm
- General: Aside from the villagers, most of Alm's best units come later for him, past mid-game. This is important as Alm's only other healer comes in late, leaving Silque to heal everyone unless Faye is made a Cleric or a Sage/Priestess has been promoted. Also, the best mages come around midgame for Alm, as well as some awesome Cavaliers during the late game.
- Clair: Sole Pegasus Knight. She will require some training, but she can turn into a beast if managed well. // Clair is obtained early on.
- Mathilda: Clive calls Mathilda a "Goddess of the Battlefield" and I can somewhat see why. She has excellent stats upon joining Alm and serves as a Female Paladin. // Mathilda is obtained about halfway through the game.
- Luthier & Delthea: Pretty good mages who join up around mid-game, but Delthea has a special recruitment requirement.

Good Units - Celica
- General: Celica has most of her party around mid-game, with two units being unlocked late game (including the only Cavalier). Out of her main initial party, Mae and Saber are the main standout characters. Boey can be retired, although Mae can be missing his support bonus. // Honestly, I think almost everyone in Celica's roster is viable, it is more just a matter of playstyle and what group you want to run (Valbar's group or the Whitewing Sisters). I am mostly running Valbar's trio and the three of them are carrying my team when Saber is not doing the heavy lifting or when Mae is not nuking everything (with Boey acting as a cheerleader, Mae likes the +10 Hit Rate from supports). I guess I just find three Pegasus Knights to be a little overkill...
- Sonya vs Deen: Do you want another Mage in an army full of Mages or another Mercenary in an army full of Mercenaries? I personally chose Sonya to recruit as she has some pretty good spells, and I could have used Deen's equipment sooner since I looted his stuff. That, and I like Sonya a bit more than Deen.

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Kliff isn't as good as a mage as he was in Gaiden, I think.

Tobin fulfills a better earlygame significantly, gets Excalibur at level 6 while Kliff is waiting until level 9, has 6 base speed as opposed to Kliff's shaky start (and 1AS with fire if he's promoted immediately). Since he rushes Excalibur fairly soon, hit rates with it become less of an issue, while Kliff has the hit support to help him out. Tobin also gets a +3/+7/+12% critical support with Gray which helps when you're stacking Excalibur for critical. While Kliff's spell list also gets him Thunder, Arrow and Aura and that does suck for Tobin, Tobin gets Physic which is really nice. Kliff would probably eventually outstrip Tobin, but mages become less useful as the game progresses in some regards anyway.

I think what you said in your OP is pretty good. You could make the case for Archer Kliff as well, but Cavalier is a good choice. It's not as if Kliff does bad as anything really.

Edited by Tryhard
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Thanks guys!

I only can't make up my mind with Kliff. Cavalier also sounds pretty good and not many others I meet, right?

Or second mage, along with Tobin? Archer just seems meh. Just saw the base stats. Kliff will most likely never double in that class.

Second Merc also doesn't seem rewarding to me, though the speed boost is great.

Any major chapters that would justify archer, mage or cav? Leaning mostly to mage at the moment.

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11 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Thanks guys!

I only can't make up my mind with Kliff. Cavalier also sounds pretty good and not many others I meet, right?

Or second mage, along with Tobin? Archer just seems meh. Just saw the base stats. Kliff will most likely never double in that class.

Second Merc also doesn't seem rewarding to me, though the speed boost is great.

Any major chapters that would justify archer, mage or cav? Leaning mostly to mage at the moment.

I'd say Mage, if only to have an easier time with that Leather Shield Mercenary in act 1. 

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20 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Thanks guys!

I only can't make up my mind with Kliff. Cavalier also sounds pretty good and not many others I meet, right?

Or second mage, along with Tobin? Archer just seems meh. Just saw the base stats. Kliff will most likely never double in that class.

Second Merc also doesn't seem rewarding to me, though the speed boost is great.

Any major chapters that would justify archer, mage or cav? Leaning mostly to mage at the moment.

Kliff actually has a pretty solid Spd growth (a personal of 60%) compared to the default Archers you get.

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Gray is the best Merc

Tobin can be a great Archer, or an okay Mage

Kliff is fantastic as anything, but his spell list as Mage is super useful

Faye has a ton of Strength, and gets good spells as both Cleric or Mage, so either of those is best

People say Atlas is best as Merc, but I stand with my boy Soldier Atlas.

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Grey has become the only mercenary in my current run. His using a Brave Sword as a dreadfighter, and his staying true to his class' name.

Tobin as an archer has been quite reliable dealing critical hits due his huge skill and supports.

I made Kliff a mage and I'm not disappointed with my decission. Having a mage from the start will allow you to deal with enemies in terrain that grants evasion.

Faye became a priestess for extra healing and now she's a heavy hitter as well. I think she got truly blessed by Mila with her Attack going beyond 20 when other characters were struggling to reach 15, but that helped once she got Physic, since she can reach almost every corner of every map, and with the dracoshield she isn't actually targeted by enemies.

Atlas was made yet another merc in the mercenary route... And now he cleans maps by himself. He's roughly on par with Saber being one class tier below (he's now a myrmidon and Saber is a dreadfighter), plus I like his winning move with a sword, I don't know if it changes when he uses a different weapon. His strength is off the map and his skill and speed might have been blessed as well. You might want to make him a cavalier since you'll have none at the moment, but those desert maps really hurt his perormance as one, and for mobility you already have Palla and Catria.

I'm still at chapter 3, so I don't know if my choices were correct or not, but after a while, you get used to the play style and everything goes easily.

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1 hour ago, SSJDennis said:

Thanks guys!

I only can't make up my mind with Kliff. Cavalier also sounds pretty good and not many others I meet, right?

Or second mage, along with Tobin? Archer just seems meh. Just saw the base stats. Kliff will most likely never double in that class.

Second Merc also doesn't seem rewarding to me, though the speed boost is great.

Any major chapters that would justify archer, mage or cav? Leaning mostly to mage at the moment.

In Alm's route you get a good amount of Cavaliers. Four by end of Act 4. Archers you only get one, Python, so having an extra archer could be very helpful. Not many Mercs in Alm's route, so that is another good option. You get a fair amount of mages, but you can never have enough :D. 

I suggest either archer or mage, you only get one archer, so a second helps. Kliff gets great spells as a mage, and give him a Mage Ring boosts his range up to that of an archer. 

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3 hours ago, SSJDennis said:

Thanks guys!

I only can't make up my mind with Kliff. Cavalier also sounds pretty good and not many others I meet, right?

Or second mage, along with Tobin? Archer just seems meh. Just saw the base stats. Kliff will most likely never double in that class.

Second Merc also doesn't seem rewarding to me, though the speed boost is great.

Any major chapters that would justify archer, mage or cav? Leaning mostly to mage at the moment.

I'd say basically: Kliff still has a 60% speed growth, so he'll really be good at whatever, but he's poor early especially if unlucky and if you're not dumping the speed well uses into him. As a mage with Fire if you promote him immediately he has 1AS, which is not good. Archer is more a long term class because he'll be doubling eventually (and can at least be safe at range for a while), which maybe can not be said of Python.

Essentially: Kliff does well as anything, but not sure if Mage is necessarily his "best" class, and he's going to have it rough early regardless, and can struggle with power gains (Bow Knight and Gold Knight have 16 and 18 base power respectively which may be gains for him). He gets extra spells and Thunder/Arrow is nice for three range, usually two will suffice and those aren't as efficient as Excalibur, which Tobin learns first. Tobin does his job decently either as a Mage or Archer, but Kliff will end up being better in either (but Tobin has utility with Physic as a Sage, so I would advise Tobin Mage and Kliff Archer, but it really matters little)

Just pick a preference. Hard is really not that difficult in this game.

Edited by Tryhard
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I went with Cliff being a cavalier because well honestly I just wanted an early game cavalier.

Faye I made a mage and man that seems to have been a great idea I think cleric would work great as well.

Robin I made into an archer I found that accuracy can be shaky but currently I have both Robin and Python in their 3rd tier archer class and they are reliable most of the time. Usually I only have trouble if the targeted enemy has some kind of terrain advantage. In short I've had a lot of fun with them in this game, they have proved to be very good at eliminating mages while the mages can't counter. If the mage is in the forest though or a supplies tile forget it.

Grey I made into a merc. Seriously what did you expect? The man is practically begging to be be one

Some other time I want to try a run where all my villagers are made either into cavaliers or mercs,buuut I'm scared of Leather Shield Mercenary.

Frankly I think your promotion plan is solid and it should work well for you. Hey I have an idea, we should develop a Alm and Grey solo challenge for Alm's part of the game and a Celica and Saber solo for hers. I don't know how well this would work but it's an interesting idea at least.

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Promote Robin and Kliff to archers, and then you don't need any strategy in chapter 4 and 5. They just clear all enemies while taking little damage.

Actually I didn't know the existence of Python before I cleared the game.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great... So I made Kliff a cav, mainly because he didn't gain any speed in his two level ups. But, I think I was wrong. Even with the early Iron Lance he isn't much help to me.

Should I restart and go Archer? The early Steel Bow is now unused, which also doesn't feel right.

Clair also doing 1... just 1 damage each hit... She is supposed to be a magekiller then? Guess pegs are weaker due to the counters of Archers.

I do like Mage Tobin, should I rig some early speed level ups for him? What level to safely double most enemies early on?

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9 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Great... So I made Kliff a cav, mainly because he didn't gain any speed in his two level ups. But, I think I was wrong. Even with the early Iron Lance he isn't much help to me.

Should I restart and go Archer? The early Steel Bow is now unused, which also doesn't feel right.

Clair also doing 1... just 1 damage each hit... She is supposed to be a magekiller then? Guess pegs are weaker due to the counters of Archers.

I do like Mage Tobin, should I rig some early speed level ups for him? What level to safely double most enemies early on?

Cav!Kliff is pretty much equal to Archer!Kliff, I myself went with Archer since his supports really help with Hit, but Cavalier will be more useful initially due to the better bases. Kliff will be fine for Spd here soon no matter what you do, his 60% growth makes him pretty tough to get screwed. Mage!Tobe should be good for Speed once he gets Excalibur, but don't be afraid to drop a few points of Speed on him from lion wells if he's struggling with Speed, since he will be putting in serious work for most of the early-mid game.

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Atlas does get Rescue as a Sage, so that's an option for him, he's the only one other than Faye to get it. And I went with Archer myself- if his Speed is going to be so low everything doubles him, might as well make it so he never has to be hit by anything in the first place. 

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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Archers are frustrating at first, since their hit rate is typically quite low, but I found the pay-off worth it; a sniper/bow knight in later game is really useful. Tobin was my archer and as a bow knight he has a super high crit rate and can reach and one-shot a lot of the enemies before they have the chance to dash in and do damage to my units in the back. 

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3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Atlas does get Rescue as a Sage, so that's an option for him, he's the only one other than Faye to get it.

Atlas as a magic unit? Didn't hear that before. How are the other "clerics" compared to him?

Other useful skills he learns? How many Warp users does this game have? Can Alm recruit Atlas?

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25 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Atlas as a magic unit? Didn't hear that before. How are the other "clerics" compared to him?

Other useful skills he learns? How many Warp users does this game have? Can Alm recruit Atlas?

Rescue is all Atlas gets of note- but Faye is the only other choice for it, and you may want her to be something else. His other spells are just Fire, Saggitae (at level 8- the earliest of any character other than Deen), and Recover- the basic stuff. As for Warp users, only Silque and Tatiana get it, and Alm can't recruit Atlas- unless killing him on Classic mode and then reviving him with Alm is a thing- character transferring via death and revival was in the original Gaiden I believe. Could someone check and tell me if it is? 

Even if Atlas can't go over to Alm's group, attack-and-Rescue is still a nifty thing, just not quite as potent without Warp. And if you're going to play Act 6- then there's that too. And with his 55 Atk growth factoring in the +5 of Mage plus his base of 14 Atk, Atlas should be able to Rescue over a good distance by the time he learns it as a level 4 Sage.

 

As a side note, Kamui, if you went through the process of sending him back to Villager gets Freeze (another spell only Faye otherwise has), Deen shares Silence with Mae, and Saber curiously enough gets Seraphim.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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39 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Atlas as a magic unit? Didn't hear that before. How are the other "clerics" compared to him?

Other useful skills he learns? How many Warp users does this game have? Can Alm recruit Atlas?

Mage!Atlas is purely gotten for Rescue, and the fact that his pow is so good (14 base pow with I think a 50% growth in it) makes it so he has a HUGE rescue range, which helps Celica's units as other than Mage!Atlas, there would be no Rescue user and considering that no one on Celica's Route has Warp and the larger maps post chapter 2 having a Rescue is nice as this speeds up the gameplay very drastically. But, this implies that you want to train Atlas - which takes backtracking to the Seabound Shrine for his promotion (which mind you, causes a whole load of map spawns to happen), and a lot of exp for him to reach lvl 12 to Sage promo so he can get Rescue.

Alm cannot get Atlas by the way.

The choices you have are pretty standard in a less casual run.

Merc!Gray is the one merc you have and the best of the villagers for the class, as both Tobin and Kliff have much better things to do than trying to fight for the Lightning Sword. Having 2 DFs in Alm's Route isn't a bad thing but I found that to not be needed.

Mage!Tobin is chosen because of Tobin's great 6 base speed, and the fact that he only needs 2 speed wellspring uses to double most of Chapter 1's enemies with Fire (has 3 wt btw) that the Lightning Sword and your other units can't take out cleanly. In addition to that, Tobin gets Excalibur at lvl 6, which means he can snowball to Sage promotion at the same time as you'd be getting the other villagers that are in a 3 tier class line to T3 such as the Merc and Cav lines (which is the shrine in Chapter 3 btw).

Cav!Kliff is chosen as he has the bulk, and speed to snowball with the Ridersbane much better than Clair does due to her very "existant" physical bulk in a game where 00% of the enemies you face in the first half of the midgame are physical classes, and thanks to the natural bulk of the Cav line and his 40% def growth, Kliff will end up much bulkier than Clair could ever muster. Also, he sees a promotion at the same time as Merc!Gray and Mage!Tobin, but he gets 9 mov and 18 base pow as a GK, which basically fixes his only issue of pow and keeping up with comabt powerhouses such as Alm, Dread FIghter!Villager, Mathilda, and the 2 prepromoted GKs Alm gets (avoiding spoilers as much as I can here). But, he's able to go into GK when Mathilda just starts to join you, which makes him really relevant until the end of the game.

Cleric!Faye is chosen because having Warp + Rescue and early Physic makes it so you're able to be a lot more flexiblility in strats. Warp + Rescue strat is particularly important in one particular map (we all know the one), and without it, that map suddenly becomes a whole lot more troublesome  than it should be. Also, Cleirc!Faye and Silque can heal each other so they can continue doing cleric things prior to getting a ring of some kind with Recovery.

Also, cross route resurrection isn't a thing here. Otherwise, you'd just resurrect Leon and completely bench Python right then and there like in Gaiden cross resurrection runs.

Edited by N30
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