The feel of the game.

[Jedi]

Now i've played Gaiden, it was kind of a slog with really cool ideas, and I'm glad to see SoV delivered, granting us cool stuff with a good UI, along with very solid voice acting and performances all around, not to mention tons of lovable characters. 

The pretty bad maps aside, when playing this (i'm still in Act 4, not quite done yet). I felt like I was more playing an RPG with Fire Emblem elements, and you know what? I like this feel, I like how the dungeons work, and I just really like mostly everything about this game. I also quite like how I can use the entire cast in a single playthrough without being penalized too heavily. 

I wouldn't mind if we got a sub series of FE that played like this game in particular, like a side RPG focused series, while still retaining FE elements, it plays more to the RPG aspect, like SoV does. (With better map design obviously).

But maybe thats asking too much, heres hoping we get more cool remakes.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Jedi

[Loki Laufeyson]

Nah, i like it too. I think im gonna be playing this game a lot. I love dungeon crawling and i love how everyone just comes to life. Each FE has its own vibe or feel to it that's unique. This one's really pleasant and a vibe i havent experienced in a game in a long time. The story is strong enough, and theres that reminiscent feel of Sacred Stones here too. (Yeah i know that game borrowed hella from Gaiden) The characters are lovely and well designed, and a distinct old school feel due to it being a remake. Im having a good time.  

[Emeraldfox]

It feels like a traditional RPG with Fire Emblem mechanics.

[Slumber]

I kept telling people that going into Echoes with the mentality that you're playing a more traditional turn-based JRPG, but on a grid, that they'd get way more enjoyment out of it.

I would be interested in a more RPG-like subseries, too, while the main series goes back to more strategy/tactical focus. I'd be fine with dungeon crawling in both, because SoV's dungeons have been their best attempt at making resource/EXP grinding a thing. If future FEs have some sort of grinding, dungeons are the way to go.

[Flower]

I think this game came close to what I expected from Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem as a theme combination, rather than actual Mirage Sessions which felt more like the Persona side of SMT + Fire Emblem. The way the title is made, it seems like there's a possibility that "Echoes" will be a strain of spinoffs for Fire Emblem, which would be pretty cool. Besides the map design, SoV turned out to be a really cool RPG in my opinion. :>

The same as Slumber, I've been telling people that the game feels like a tactical JRPG, even though it doesn't play 100% like how most people view Fire Emblem. I've just kind of been playing through it detached from the FE title and I feel as though I'm enjoying it a lot more when I don't try to compare it to anything else.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Flower

[property of nuvelle]

@Emeraldfox Amazing profile pic man.

I honestly feel the same. It's an FE game that doesn't exactly feel like an FE game, and it isn't a bad thing.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

JRPGs are a dime a dozen. A remake of Gaiden is the only Fire Emblem game I'd like to see in this style for the future. I've played dungeon crawlers with all these mechanics before, so it's not wowing me.

But I thought about what Echoes feels like. Most major maps are an absolute mess of units and terrain that looks like hell to go through. But you start slow, kill the enemies as they come, make some mistakes, turnwheel to correct it, and you've surmounted the odds. I think Conquest attempted this as well, but the answer to every problem was bait as few enemies at a time with Effie or Corrin. Turtling is boring, and only has room for one suitable answer. Echoes may not have an army filling out an entire map, but the units that are there are definitely going to hit yours all at once. I like the slow pace of fights that results from considering all your options

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

I'd actually be 100% fine if this kind of world map became the norm, except maybe without the forced skirmishes. I love the sense of progression on my path, and all the detours. I want to see a more advanced version of this, kinda like FFXV, but not really.

[Korath88]

When I heard the initial complaints about the gameplay, I was worried that it would end up being a frustrating slog to play through.

However, after beating the game, I can safely say that it is a really fun experience in its own right, despite not following traditional FE gameplay. From cheesing maps with warp, abusing mage rings, imitating save states with the turnwheel and having archers actually be essential units, it's one of the better gameplay experiences I've had, as I actually enjoy playing through it, unlike a certain other game *cough* Revelation *cough*

[HK Motendra]

You stole the words right out of my keyboard!

it might just be because RPGs are kinda my thing (particularly within action-adventure), but SoV is close enough; the closest I've ever seen in the series to being an actual RPG in a series that claims to be a Strategy RPG. Throughout the series, the strategy part has always been there, but something was always missing to me that, in the back of my subconscious mind my, kept my viewing of Fire Emblem as a whole to be just consecutive rounds of (heavily glorified, detailed and innovative) a game of chess.Granted, thats only when story and characters isn't being taken into account, but when it comes to both genres of strategy & RPG, Echoes, alone, delivers on both fronts in my opinion, that I hope can remain

[Sentinel07]

25 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I'd actually be 100% fine if this kind of world map became the norm, except maybe without the forced skirmishes. I love the sense of progression on my path, and all the detours. I want to see a more advanced version of this, kinda like FFXV, but not really.

I certainly would not mind another scenario with controlling two armies over two separate stories like this.

[Great Dane]

I like the feel of Echoes as a whole and how it can set up some simplistic, yet oddly satisfying maps. I think the story really hit it home though, it had a somewhat cheery start that slowly became a lot more moody and dark, but it transitioned well enough to keep me interested. I think it may be one of the best told stories in the series, and I certainly hope future games will meet it's standards. I think both went hand-in-hand enough to make me want to see the end of the game, even if I felt the encounters were getting a bit crazy in difficulty at times. Overall, I approve.

[Res]

I find the dungeons kind of neat, and yet they're rather repetitive and don't offer much new in the way of environments, so I could take them or leave them.

There's so much else the game gets right in terms of immersion, though. I really like the ability to look around the villages and buildings and to chat with non-party members. Some of my favourite parts have been in the small details - the Rigelian farmer who hates Zofians because he views them as lazy and as having riches offered to them on a silver plate. How Rigel might provide poor soil for many crops, but produces good wine. Alm's dorky commentary. 

I also like that certain supports/tidbits of information from your party members only open up after certain parts in the story. Fates' pacing had it totally wrong in this regard, especially with the inclusion of marriage and kids - you could have half your party marry and obtain half the kids before you even track down Ryoma in Birthright, for example. 

I've disliked some of the maps, but actually they are a great deal more realistic, especially as far as the siege maps go. 

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Yeah - this is why I loved the original Gaiden - I loved it for what it did different.

Echoes nails everything for me, and it love the maps and enemies everyone complains about. It's been a blast since I started.

Gonna wait until I'm completely finished, but I'm pretty sure this it's going to finish as my favorite FE. QoL was the only thing holding the original back for me (and it was still my third favorite even then).

[SuperIb]

I feel the same way about everything you said. I really do love this game and wouldn't mind more like it at all. It definitely helps if you like more traditional JRPG games, as I do.

2 hours ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Echoes nails everything for me, and it love the maps and enemies everyone complains about. It's been a blast since I started.

Same here. Honestly nothing bothered me except for the pronunciation of "Mila" which I got used to and "Archanea" which I refuse to accept lmao. I also wish that 1% was the minimum growth for RES but what can you do. Last complaint would be I wish we could either A. get more pitchforks or B. have any class other than Dread Fighter able to reclass to villager, at least for post game.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

7 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

Honestly nothing bothered me except for the pronunciation of "Mila" which I got used to and "Archanea" which I refuse to accept lmao.

How are they pronounced in English?

[SuperIb]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

How are they pronounced in English?

I thought "Mila" was pronounced "Me-lah" but they pronounce it "Mill-lah"

And as for Archanea, I thought it was pronounced "Arr-cane-ia" but they pronounce it "Arr-cah-neigh-a"

[Armagon]

8 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

I thought "Mila" was pronounced "Me-lah" but they pronounce it "Mill-lah"

And as for Archanea, I thought it was pronounced "Arr-cane-ia" but they pronounce it "Arr-cah-neigh-a"

I've actually always pronounced it as "Arr-cah-neigh-a."

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

24 minutes ago, SuperIb said:

I thought "Mila" was pronounced "Me-lah" but they pronounce it "Mill-lah"

And as for Archanea, I thought it was pronounced "Arr-cane-ia" but they pronounce it "Arr-cah-neigh-a"

Interesting. The way you pronounced Mila is closer to what it is in Japanese, but it's the opposite for Archanea.

Names are hard.

[The DanMan]

15 hours ago, Jedi said:

I felt like I was more playing an RPG with Fire Emblem elements

That's what has made it work for me-- SS and Awakening felt like FE with heavier RPG elements, and that really didn't work out. Seems like SoV being more towards the other extreme really worked out.

Now if only the plot was at least average JRPG fair instead of barely better than Awakening/Fates...

[BrightBow]

I always liked Gaiden's mechanics a lot, although I never managed to finish it. After finishing Echoes I feel confident in saying that this is only because of the NES era clunkyness, and that the game was indeed really well put together otherwise.

Later Fire Emblem games would take a lot from Gaiden but they were always really half-assed about it. Like, Sacred Stones is just Binding Blade with a world map tagged on. There isn't really a purpose for it other then having pointless random encounters.  So I am really happy that this remake ended up staying true to what Gaiden was about, that they avoided adding mechanics that simply don't belong there and instead added entirely new elements that actually fit well with Gaiden's design, like the dungeon crawling and the side quests.

So yeah, I would definitely like to see more games like this.

 

Edit:

42 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Now if only the plot was at least average JRPG fair instead of barely better than Awakening/Fates...

Well, I don't quite feel like I am yet capable to judge whetter the story is good or bad. But what I do know is that in Echoes I don't find myself hating the protagonists with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. Which means that by default I consider the game's story to be far superior to Awakening or Fates. The supposed heroes of those two games were such a special kind of awful that I still find it hard to comprehend that they weren't actually intended to be utterly loathsome.

Edited May 26, 2017 by BrightBow

[Slumber]

40 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Now if only the plot was at least average JRPG fair

You mean complete trash?

[The DanMan]

11 minutes ago, Slumber said:

You mean complete trash?

Can't really make that statement myself since the few I've been exposed to happen to have decent (not particularly good, but not particularly bad either) ones. 

SoV's story is just not good: it's got plot holes, vague backstories, mostly black and white morality, boring main characters. Outside of a somewhat strong start, there's nothing really positive I can say about it.
IS dropped the ball (Awakening), kicked it down a ditch (Fates), and then spit on it for good measure (SoV).

[Jedi]

59 minutes ago, Slumber said:

You mean complete trash?

I don't think thats really fair, especially considering typical JRPG fare is much stronger than your average WRPG. 

(That said both J and W have their supreme hits & misses, but I can't really accept you saying "average" is complete trash)

[Slumber]

57 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Can't really make that statement myself since the few I've been exposed to happen to have decent (not particularly good, but not particularly bad either) ones.

Then you can't say "it should be at least as good as the average JRPG", because while often fairly ambitious, JRPGs have some of the worst writing in video games. People just tend to get really attached to these stories because they're super melodramatic and last like, upwards of 50 hours. At some point you just have to assume the people still playing Kingdom Hearts for the story just have Stockholm syndrome. Even most of the the ones that "aren't very awful" also "aren't very good", like the most of the Kitase/Itou/Sakaguchi FFs, the Dragon Quest games. About comparable to Echoes. The JRPGs with awful stories far outweigh the JRPGs with actually good stories, and it brings the "average" JRPG story down with them.

Echoes has a serviceable story. Celica's characterization goes a bit too far in chapter 4/5, past what'd be believable for a sheltered girl who spent her life in a monastery, but it's far from the worst example of this I've seen in a video game. For sake of this argument, I'll compare Celica to a character very much like her.

Compare Celica to Yuna from FFX, a game with a story people say they like. Both are sheltered, naive young women who represent their game's major religion, and set out on a journey to bring peace to the land. Somewhere along their journeys, they both fall into the hands of obviously evil people who you wouldn't trust holding onto your cellphone, let alone your life and your friends' lives.

Celica, by and large, doesn't want an all-out war, and has been getting visions of Alm dying, Alm crying out as he murders his own father. We were given reasons as to why Celica would be super desperate to save him and bring peace to the war-torn continent, so she listens to Jedeh, who says he can help fix this. Celica basically has one meeting with Jedeh, where he tells her everything she wants to hear, then one where he tricks her and fucks her over.

Compare to Yuna, who similarly, wants to stop Sin from destroying Spira and killing people. So she decides that marrying a maester of Yevon will bring peace of mind to the people of Spira during Sin's decennial rampage, even though the guy couldn't be any more obviously evil unless his name was "Satan".

Turns out, the guy is evil as fuck. Yuna's first meeting with him involves a bunch of shady shit to fight Sin, and it ends with her and the party getting bad vibes from him. The second meeting has him making weird, creepy comments to everyone, and Yuna finds out he murdered his father. Their third meeting has Yuna getting kidnapped, and Seymour and his body guards try to murder the party, and this whole deal ends with Yuna and the party killing Seymour(He gets better). Yuna then willingly goes to their previously planned wedding which wasn't called off for whatever reason, in hopes that she can Send him... only for him to realize what she's doing because she does it in the dumbest way possible, and she runs away while her party gets taken captive again and set up for execution. This ends with the party killing him again(Again, he gets better). Yuna finally decides "Okay, this guy's not worth the effort, and the whole religion is corrupt and stupid. Let's just leave them alone and continue with what we were doing 15 hours ago."

I won't say that FFX's development of this story is good or bad since people really like that game and like Yuna(You can probably guess how I feel by my phrasing), but it is an example of something similar develops in a more typical JRPG story.

15 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I don't think thats really fair, especially considering typical JRPG fare is much stronger than your average WRPG. 

(That said both J and W have their supreme hits & misses, but I can't really accept you saying "average" is complete trash)

I don't even think I'd agree with that. Usually, the worst WRPG stories are just generic and boring. Usually not frustrating and infuriating, like, say... Final Fantasy XIII and its sequels, or Star Ocean 3-5. Not that they don't exist, but it doesn't seem to be as common. For every Witcher 3, we seem to get about two Fable 3s. For every one Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, we seem to get about three Kingdom Hearts.

That said, the bad JRPG stories tend to be more laughably enjoyable than the bad WRPG stories.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Slumber