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I was playing Path of Radiance and had a few questions…


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I’m about to start C12 on Normal, if it matters.

1) Can I get away with using both Mia and Zihark, in the long term?

2) How screwed am I for not using laguz? I did field Mordecai once to recruit Zihark.

3) How screwed am I for not using Rolf? I did give him BEXP, bringing him to lvl 7 but I’m pretty sure this is definitely not enough even for taking down the crows.

4) How screwed am I for not using Mist? Rhys has been doing his job (his job being healing people) fine since he joined.

5) What is the strategy for forging weapons? Do I just take a highest-Wt weapon a character is able to wield without taking AS penalties and buff its Mt and crit rate? Or are there other considerations to keep in mind?

6) Ditto for BEXP. Do I give it to those trailing behind? Do I push those at 99 XP over the threshold? Or am I supposed to do something completely different?

7) My Ike is already lvl 16, did I overfeed him? How soon does he promote?

8) If I’m going to use Calill later on, whom of Soren or Ilyana should I not have spent XP on? Did it go entirely to waste?

9) Should I continue to use Kieran, even if I already have an axe cavalierpaladin in Titania?

Here are my guys and gals anyway, except both laguz and Sothe, who are almost completely unchanged:

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I’m about to start C12 on Normal, if it matters.

1) Can I get away with using both Mia and Zihark, in the long term?
You can use both if you want. They're comparable till the end. Zihark has the better affinity though.

2) How screwed am I for not using laguz? I did field Mordecai once to recruit Zihark.
They're ok but never really needed. You can get along without them. Mordecai will become like a knight while Lethe is faster but weaker.

3) How screwed am I for not using Rolf? I did give him BEXP, bringing him to lvl 7 but I’m pretty sure this is definitely not enough even for taking down the crows.
Rolf is one of the worst units in game which doesn't automatically mean he's bad. He joins in midgame at level 1. Also the S bow is pretty bad. You can get along without an archer in this game. The best bow user is Astrid. She joins at level 1 even later, but she's mounted and gets doubled experience for having paragon.

4) How screwed am I for not using Mist? Rhys has been doing his job (his job being healing people) fine since he joined.
Mist is needed as back up for beating one certain boss later.

5) What is the strategy for forging weapons? Do I just take a highest-Wt weapon a character is able to wield without taking AS penalties and buff its Mt and crit rate? Or are there other considerations to keep in mind?
Idk what the point of forging weight is. I think higher weight will give more weapon exp.? Anyways only go for might and accuracy. If you have money left, then buff crit as well.

6) Ditto for BEXP. Do I give it to those trailing behind? Do I push those at 99 XP over the threshold? Or am I supposed to do something completely different?
Unlike in the sequel the bexp. levels are random. Use them if someone is underleveled to let catch them up.

7) My Ike is already lvl 16, did I overfeed him? How soon does he promote?
Ike will autopromote at the end of chapter 17, so I'd say a bit overleveled. Just use him for poking not to give him too much exp.

8) If I’m going to use Calill later on, whom of Soren or Ilyana should I not have spent XP on? Did it go entirely to waste?
Calill is a good prepromoted unit. She can use heavier tomes but no staves. If you're going to use her, you don't really need Ilyana anymore because Calill will cover her anima weapon rankes. Soren, on the other hand, is still useful because of adept, support with Ike and having preference in wind magic.

9) Should I continue to use Kieran, even if I already have an axe cavalierpaladin in Titania?
Each mounted is great so you can use both. However Kieran will have better potential at the end because Titania won't equal her low bases anymore despite her great growths.

Here are my guys and gals anyway, except both laguz and Sothe, who are almost completely unchanged:

 

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48 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

I’m about to start C12 on Normal, if it matters.

1) Can I get away with using both Mia and Zihark, in the long term?

You can, there's no harm in it.

2) How screwed am I for not using laguz? I did field Mordecai once to recruit Zihark.

Not screwed at all, you can beat the game without touching a single Laguz unit.

3) How screwed am I for not using Rolf? I did give him BEXP, bringing him to lvl 7 but I’m pretty sure this is definitely not enough even for taking down the crows.

Not screwed, some people don't bother using him generally.  However, he is vital to use to recruit someone later in the game.

4) How screwed am I for not using Mist? Rhys has been doing his job (his job being healing people) fine since he joined.

Kinda screwed because she's EXTREMELY vital in a boss fight later.  Both she and Rolf can also be used to recruit another character later.

5) What is the strategy for forging weapons? Do I just take a highest-Wt weapon a character is able to wield without taking AS penalties and buff its Mt and crit rate? Or are there other considerations to keep in mind?

I'm drawing a blank on this one, I normally don't forge anything.

6) Ditto for BEXP. Do I give it to those trailing behind? Do I push those at 99 XP over the threshold? Or am I supposed to do something completely different?

Use it for underleveled characters since it's treated normally unlike in Radiant Dawn.

7) My Ike is already lvl 16, did I overfeed him? How soon does he promote?

A bit overleveled, but it's okay.  He promotes at the end of Chapter 17 I believe.

8) If I’m going to use Calill later on, whom of Soren or Ilyana should I not have spent XP on? Did it go entirely to waste?

Both Soren and Ilyana are pretty good so I can't really say for sure.  Some prefer Soren though because of Adept so I guess you shouldn't have spent XP on Ilyana.  Again, both are good so it's really a personal preference here.

9) Should I continue to use Kieran, even if I already have an axe cavalierpaladin in Titania?

Kieran is a solid unit, even if you continue to use Titania, he'll be good.

Here are my guys and gals anyway, except both laguz and Sothe, who are almost completely unchanged:

Hope my rather bad-ish answers help out. xP

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I managed to complete the boss fight with a level 1 mist (by using the first occult scroll on ike and getting lucky with aether procs), so I would not say she is required. YOu can also just run away from the boss fight, but you miss out on the rewards.

As for forging, adding weight does nothing positive. It is impossible to increase the amount of bexp a weapon gives.

Edited by sirmola
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Re: forging, my bad for a weird and incomprehensible wording, sorry for that.

I meant if, e. g., a character can wield iron lances without penalty, I should buff an iron lance up to level of a steel one and in terms of Mt and adding crit, hit and so on.

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1. Either is fine, honestly. But I tend to drop both for

Spoiler

Stefan. He is swole as fuck in terms of stats, weapons, and skills, but the way to recruit him is weird

2. They are decent, but you will be fine without them.

3. Rolf isn't great. If you care about bow wielders, use Astrid.

4. Mist is borderline essentially for a boss later... but you don't have to beat that specific boss so....

5. I don't really have advice

6. Use it to buff underleveled units

7. It doesn't matter imo. At the end of Chapter 17.

8. Use all 3 if you want. Soren has a rough start, but he gets good when he gets rolling. But wind is hot garbage. Illyana is decent all around, but I don't think her skills/stats are quite as good as Soren's. But thunder magic is the best. So make your own judgement from there. Calill is a goddess amongst men in terms of what magic she can use.... but she can't use staves. I like all 3 alot, personally.

9. Use both. No real downside imo.

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As a general rule, units with a mount (especially if it has wings) are better than units without, simply because there is basically no downside to balance out the higher mobility and canto (move after attacking). Even effective weaponry is hardly an issue because the multiplyer is only x2 instead of x3. Also, axes and lances are better than swords and bows, thanks to forgeable hand axes and javelins. The weapon triangle is less of a deal than in most other FE games since your characters are almost always vastly superiour to the enemy.

Because of that, unit diversity is not particularly important. There isn't really a bonus in having a member of every class in the game on your team, other than maybe a better feng shui, I guess. ;) So if you wanted to play super efficient, it's usually better to drop your infantry sword users and keep your mounted axe users in. But honestly, other than more BEXP thanks to lower turncounts, the impact of your team composition is rather small since almost everyone is perfectly capable of killing almost every enemy.

So, as a even more general rule, it's almost impossible to get screwed by suboptimal unit choice or even super unlucky level-ups. As others have said, Rolf is considered to be one of the worst, if not the worst combat unit in the game, but with a little BEXP infusion, he should still be doing quite well. Actually, it might even be helpful to have him at a somewhat reasonable level since he's needed to recruit someone later in the game in a map that has (at least on hard mode, not sure about normal) several long-range tome users on it.

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I wouldn't say you're screwed by not using Rolf or a laguz unit, but I do say you're missing out on some good people. Lethe is an amazing unit as is Ranulf when he joins later, and as for Rolf, no, he's not the best in the game, but he's better than Shinon who comes back too late and a fine investment if you don't want to bother with Astrid who also joins too late, imo. I always use him and Soren against the raven laguz in that pirate raven chapter.

But yeah, you do need Rolf to recruit someone later (and you will need one of him or Mist to recruit someone else), and Rolf has a really good support with one of the later game units. And you will need Mist to back up Ike against one of the bosses.

Definitely use Kieran! Yours looks like he might be speed blessed and Kieran rocks anyway. :D He's always my best knight in both Tellius games, actually. He just has good growths, but you can or can't use his Gamble skill. In fact, I'd probably just get rid of it to make room for something better.

Edited by Anacybele
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Just completed Ch17. That definitely was a fun ride and a great opportunity for training!

This seems a blessed Mia:

1kRU8vI.png

And this seems a screwed Zihark:

QtViFvL.png

I’m rather sad for the guy.

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Zihark is 3 points behind in strength (and -2 in skill, but who cares), so yeah, that's pretty bad. Mia is 5 point over her Str average, so "blessed" doesn't even begin to descibe her. :D

Normally, the differences between them are rather minor - Zihark's averages are a bit better, but it's nothing too significant.

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1 I don't like either at the point of the game where enemies finally get accurate and too bulky, but that takes so long in this game. Like swordmasters in the GBA games I'd probably let their level ups decide. (esp if you consider true hit compared to displayed hit) FE9 is really low difficulty so you can carry a bad leveled swordmaster if you want, but yeah.

2 I think the laguz were designed as intentional temporary units, since you get so many and they are always about on-level but hard to improve. You can make long term use of them, but you lose next to nothing by ignoring them.

3 The map where he recruits someone is really linear, so you can just use 2 people to wall (even ike should be bulky enough) I don't consider it a hard recruitment even with level 1 rolf. He's redeemable with big forges, but he's never going to be a superstar.

4. One cleric is fine. Winning the optional battle is fun for story reasons, but if you have continue to train promoted Ike at the rate you've been training unpromoted ike then the bonus you get won't matter for the final chapter. Also the dancer in this game can heal, so using two healers+any promoted mage+the dancer would be ridiculous overkill.

5 Forge heavy weapons. AS doesn't prevent many charathers from doubling, and being able to chomp through enemies is fine. The main thing people have reservations with are forges for the magic users, but I really don't see it as a problem in practice. Handaxes>Javelins>Steel>everything else You have tons of money in this game. so just roll it.

6 In RD BXP level ups have special properties. In PoR, they have have the same properties as normal level ups (so I would say that overall it's much better on unpromoted units). There are a couple of the "even good" charathers that I like to give 2 levels right after recruiting them, but in the context of normal mode you don't need to optimize it.

7. Don't worry about overfeeding, this game is relatively experiencece rich.

8 Both Soren and Illayna have downsides, but with the enemy stats in this game it doesn't matter too much outside of efficiency runs. IMO Calill is the most practical magic user in the game even if she doesn't have the overated growth potential of the others. Her high starting weapon ranks especially are a relief not to mention having some bulk compared to the scrawny couple. Specifically Illyana can get speed screwed some of the time, but generally she'll still manage to do fine. Soren's downsides is of course his atrocious build, but his speed can grow so high that even with speed penalties he can use the heavy tomes and double. There is kind of mid-game phase where he doesn't have the stats to overcome the penalities and should use light wt tomes, but it doesn't last long.

9.. You can safely use multiple paladins in Path of Radiance. They all turn out well.

 

Edited by Reality
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Mia capped Str at 20/5. Yeah.

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I dropped Zihark because he turned out rather weak and required burning through his killing edge in order to actually kill people.
I recruited Shinon with Rolf just fine, now I don’t have to use him ever again (for this playthrough at least).
I forgot that Volke auto-promotes after C19, he only was lvl 11 at the moment. That’s a pity.
I did replace Rhys with Mist and did train her up, she doesn’t seem very remarkable yet.
I’m going to try out using all three sages (except Tormod because I didn’t even touch him) for C21, with Ena being a dragon and weak to thunder.
Transformed knight ring Reyson is a thing of beauty, worthy of getting into Jugdral.

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1) Can I get away with using both Mia and Zihark, in the long term?

Yes. You can. Both are solid mid-tier units and fairly good. Mia > Zihark.

2) How screwed am I for not using laguz? I did field Mordecai once to recruit Zihark.

Not screwed at all. Lethe has terrible growth rates, Mordi is slow to transform, and Muarim is meh. Their weapons don't upgrade either leaving them at basically steel. The hawks are just bad as well. Reyson is the only 'good' Laguz you should always consider using.

3) How screwed am I for not using Rolf? I did give him BEXP, bringing him to lvl 7 but I’m pretty sure this is definitely not enough even for taking down the crows.

Not screwed at all. Aside from Ike you're not screwed for not raising up any one unit. Especially on Normal where you can have a Laguz King kill the final boss. If you need another bow user Boyd will learn them, Astrid starts with them, and you can have a paladin pick them up as a secondary weapon on promotion.

4) How screwed am I for not using Mist? Rhys has been doing his job (his job being healing people) fine since he joined.

Not screwed at all. You only 'need' one healer and the sages can pick up staves on promotion (and it's highly recommended over knives).

5) What is the strategy for forging weapons? Do I just take a highest-Wt weapon a character is able to wield without taking AS penalties and buff its Mt and crit rate? Or are there other considerations to keep in mind?

There is no 'strategy', but handaxes, thunder tomes, and silver weapons are 'the best'. Max out MT at the least. WT is useless aside from maybe decreasing the weight of a thunder-tome for Soren.

6) Ditto for BEXP. Do I give it to those trailing behind? Do I push those at 99 XP over the threshold? Or am I supposed to do something completely different?

It's up to you. If you're looking to BEXP abuse be sure to save beforehand and try to get units close to the level-up threshold.

7) My Ike is already lvl 16, did I overfeed him? How soon does he promote?

Eh. A 'bit', but it's no problem. Let him cap out then focus on your other units till he gets his automatic promotion.

8) If I’m going to use Calill later on, whom of Soren or Ilyana should I not have spent XP on? Did it go entirely to waste?

Soren is considered to be better, but it's really up to you. Both are fairly good regardless.

9) Should I continue to use Kieran, even if I already have an axe cavalierpaladin in Titania?

Yes. All the paladins, except MAYBE Geoffery, are good. Even Geo is a solid choice on the whole.

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Don't worry too much about Volke. He's one of the weaker combat units anyway, thanks to knives being utter garbage in this game. Stealing might be a bit more awkward than it would be at 20/1, but you're not missing out on a powerhouse.

About Mist: If you want her to do something other than killing mages, you can try to get her sword rank high enough to use the Sonic Sword. But the main reasons to use Mist instead of Rhys are her higher speed and movement, as well as one boss battle in which she's the only available healer. Her combat is definitely sub-par, even if you grind her sword rank. Without the sonic sword, she desperately needs a steel forge and a not-screwed strength stat to do any work.

Edited by ping
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11 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

Just completed Ch17. That definitely was a fun ride and a great opportunity for training!

This seems a blessed Mia:

1kRU8vI.png

And this seems a screwed Zihark:

QtViFvL.png

I’m rather sad for the guy.

Yeah, your Zihark definitely got screwed. :( He's usually better than Mia because he's supposed to hit harder while still being speedy enough. But that's definitely not the case here.

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I don't understand why everyone hates Rolf. If you RNG abuse his BEXP (which is super easy to do) he becomes unstoppable. He is "usable" within 2 chapters of getting him if you just throw some BEXP his way. In later chapters I used him as a tank to soak hits since I didn't bother with Gatrie. He capped Str, skl, spd, def, and res as a 20/14 sniper. He is miles ahead of Shinon. I never bothered with Astrid because with Rolf you don't really need to.

Then again, I RNG abused just about every unit so all of them had 4 stats capped around the 20/14 mark (and sadly didn't transfer to Radiant Dawn because I couldn't hit 20 by the last chapter). But Rolf is always a badass in my POR playthroughs.

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6 minutes ago, cloudstrifex said:

I don't understand why everyone hates Rolf. If you RNG abuse his BEXP (which is super easy to do) he becomes unstoppable. He is "usable" within 2 chapters of getting him if you just throw some BEXP his way. In later chapters I used him as a tank to soak hits since I didn't bother with Gatrie. He capped Str, skl, spd, def, and res as a 20/14 sniper. He is miles ahead of Shinon. I never bothered with Astrid because with Rolf you don't really need to.

Then again, I RNG abused just about every unit so all of them had 4 stats capped around the 20/14 mark (and sadly didn't transfer to Radiant Dawn because I couldn't hit 20 by the last chapter). But Rolf is always a badass in my POR playthroughs.

The problem is more with bows than Rolf. With their lack of 1-range counters people looking for tier-list stuff will shy away swiftly and opt instead for someone with javelins or throwing axes, both of which are 1-2 ranged (rendering bows moot) and can be forged. Plus if they REALLY need a bow user Boyd gets them on promo, Astrid comes with Paragon and can get a melee weapon, and Oscar/Kieran can pick them up as well. So there really isn't much point in a dedicated bow user when between 2-4 of the 'best' units in the game can not only get bows but a melee weapon as well.

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1 minute ago, Snowy_One said:

The problem is more with bows than Rolf. With their lack of 1-range counters people looking for tier-list stuff will shy away swiftly and opt instead for someone with javelins or throwing axes, both of which are 1-2 ranged (rendering bows moot) and can be forged. Plus if they REALLY need a bow user Boyd gets them on promo, Astrid comes with Paragon and can get a melee weapon, and Oscar/Kieran can pick them up as well. So there really isn't much point in a dedicated bow user when between 2-4 of the 'best' units in the game can not only get bows but a melee weapon as well.

I can see that as a deterrent for sure. I use him differently I guess. For me he was a semi tank who could soak hits for weaker units and was also probably the best anti-mage unit in the game. I don't do LTC playthroughs so the lack of mount or melee weapon doesn't bother me really. I am about to replay on Hard Mode so I'll see if the same holds true.

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It's less that Rolf does particularly bad in combat, it's rather that (almost) everyone else is at least as good as he is at straight-up killing one enemy, and noone else except for Shinon (who is rather terrible when he rejoins) and Astrid until promotion has to bother with bowlock. Rolf's stats, while not bad, are just not any better than everybody else's, so if you're trying to play "efficiently", you'd prefer the unit that has also a horse/pegasus/wyvern and/or access to 1-2 ranged weapons. The ability to move after attacking, higher movement, flight and the ability to actually strike back when tanking hits is always more valuable than, well, not having any of them, not only in a LTC context.

But to repeat myself: Choosing a non-optimal team in PoR is hardly punishing, even on hard mode. It's a bit harder to get the highest BEXP numbers since those are usually tied to turncounts, but it's mostly a difference in speed, not in difficulty. Still, if someone asks for advice about his team, I find it more prudent to point him in the direction of the best candidates even if it's not at all necessary to limit yourself to them.

Edited by ping
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14 hours ago, ping said:

It's less that Rolf does particularly bad in combat, it's rather that (almost) everyone else is at least as good as he is at straight-up killing one enemy, and noone else except for Shinon (who is rather terrible when he rejoins) and Astrid until promotion has to bother with bowlock. Rolf's stats, while not bad, are just not any better than everybody else's, so if you're trying to play "efficiently", you'd prefer the unit that has also a horse/pegasus/wyvern and/or access to 1-2 ranged weapons. The ability to move after attacking, higher movement, flight and the ability to actually strike back when tanking hits is always more valuable than, well, not having any of them, not only in a LTC context.

But to repeat myself: Choosing a non-optimal team in PoR is hardly punishing, even on hard mode. It's a bit harder to get the highest BEXP numbers since those are usually tied to turncounts, but it's mostly a difference in speed, not in difficulty. Still, if someone asks for advice about his team, I find it more prudent to point him in the direction of the best candidates even if it's not at all necessary to limit yourself to them.

I get where you're coming from but in regards to people saying Rolf is "one of the worst units in the game" that is simply not true. OP isn't going to have any issues *not* using Rolf (except maybe to recruit you-know-who, but even then probably not) but he's definitely a great unit when you put the effort into him. OP didn't seem like using an optimal team was crucial to his playthrough. I think people obsess way too much over mounted units being the best or units not having melee option. As you said POR is pretty easy in general and you can use whoever you like. I tend to only use 1-2 mounted units in any given FE playthrough as I don't really care for them and never really have any trouble.

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Who is worse than Rolf though? Sothe, sure, but he's not really meant to be a combat unit. Maybe Volke when you only look at potential and ignore investment, since you can't forge knives (iirc). The Laguz have their issues with their transformation gauge, but they usually have something to make up for it. Lethe is a good fighter when she joins and transforms immediately; Mordy has Smite and can tank during longer fights; Janaff and Ulki can fly; Ranulf and Muarim can do reasonably well with the demiband.

And you haven't given me anything Rolf can do that sets him apart from other units. It can't be his stats, because they are nothing special. Effective damage against flyers sounds nice, but it's only x2 and he can only delete one (or two with Reyson) per turn, while other units can severely weaken or kill multiple enemies in one enemy phase.

You can argue about how much of an advantage a mount and 1-2 range are. I highly disagree with you, since Canto is amazing in the Tellius games and PoR isn't only very EP-oriented thanks to its wimpy enemies, but also rewards the player for wrapping up fights quickly by BEXP. But even if I didn't - you can't deny that these are advantages, and Rolf doesn't have any. And, at the same time, mounted units have comparable stats (bases, growths and caps) to infantry units, and generally no downsides whatsoever to offset the advantages that they undeniably have. And what does Rolf have? Longbow access, I guess, but that doesn't even make up for his lower movement, not to mention that longbows aren't exactly OP in PoR.

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Bows are pretty bad in FE9 combined that they only do double damage. The S bow is literally a joke. Unlike Astrid he's neither mounted, nor he can get levels as fast as her.
Sure, Sothe is worse in combat than him because Rolf can do chip damage from range at least. On the other hand Sothe he can end some chapters quicker for searching in the sand and opening chests.

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Agree to disagree I guess. In a game like PoR which is quite easy I don't see the need to care so much about BEXP or using mounted units over infantry (unless you are purposely going for LTC). Like I said Rolf is a great anti mage due to his high strength and resistance, and usually caps the most stats out of any character in my playthroughs. Bows may not be the best but you can put him behind units to counter long range magic or physical weapons and he will usually kill enemies when counter attacking.

My point which I stated multiple times is that he's far from useless or "worst unit in the game" which is what a lot of people have said. RNG abuse of BEXP can make any character useful. It's just a difference in playstyle.

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You are kinda dodging my point though. I call Rolf one of the worst units in the game not because I wouldn't think he can contribute - he can, but so does everyone else in the game, and usually better. You still haven't come up with any unit that is actually worse than Rolf.

And frankly, Rolf isn't an outstanding mage killer. A base Res of 2 and a growth rate of 25% is probably slightly higher than average, but since his HP is rather on the low side of things, it all balances out. His Str is more or less average, as well - it's actually lower than Marcia's before Rolf's higher promotion bonus lets him almost catch up. It's almost identical to Astrids (-1 base, same growths, +1 promo gain for Rolf) and clearly inferior to Str-oriented units such as Kieran or Boyd. In fact, Boyd's Str lead is so substantial that it all but negates the power difference between a Hand Axe and a Silver Bow.

Speaking of which - while Rolf has to keep right at the edge of the range of enemy mages to be able to counter them, Boyd (or anyone else with Javelins or Hand Axes) can easily waltz right in and potentially counter-kill multiple enemies and severely weaken some that might have high HP and/or defense. Now you may again argue that this is a playstyle that not everyone uses, but it's still an advantage most (non-laguz, non-swordmaster) units have over Rolf, while he does not have any special abilities to his name - not magekilling anyway, as I tried to show in the previous paragraph.

You're bringing up that PoR is easy which is true, but I don't see how that affects Rolf's standing compared to other playable characters in the game. Sure, it makes him way, waaay more usable than bottom-tier units from other games such as Wendy, Sophia, Fiona or Lyre. In fact, I'd even say that the general weakness of PoR's enemies might be part of the reason why Rolf is worse, not different to other units. For example, in FE6, wyvern riders are a legitimate thread, so access to bows is actually worth something. And since hitrates with Javelins and Hand Axes are usually shaky (and their power is low and they cannot be forged), they don't completely obsolete bows. But none of that is true for PoR, so bows are pretty much worse in every way than lances and axes.

So, tl;dr: No, Rolf is not unuseable. But yes, he is one of the worst units in the game.

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