SoV Unit Evaluation Day 24-25: ATLAS and Jesse

[Djing]

Python is a Killer Bow with a man attached to it. 

[SuperIb]

When Python has the 2nd highest Spd and Str in your Alm's party and actually has a Skl stat. Bless.

[joshcja]

Python: Nerd not a villager who comes hilariously underleveled with bad stats. Still he's an archer and KB is pretty busted so he'll see use sometimes. His growths are actually alright but his supports are non-existent. 4/10

Forscythe: Comes hilariously underleveled with bad stats and is a thwomp. 0/10 literally useless. That said he's hilarious and is fun to fork into usefulness.

[Dragrath]

Both Python and Forscythe may come underleveled but they haven't disappointed. Both have abnormally high speed growths for their respective classes which automatically gives them an edge if trained

Python in particular has excellent speed growth tied for 4th highest in the game and thus becomes the only archer that has a chance to reliably double enemies though pulling this off on faster enemies requires particular bow choices (2 weight ideally) admittedly it is only 55 as a growth but in Echoes that is actually amazing.

Forescythe initially comes with all the downsides of the soldier class namely shit movement and speed, but he has the highest res and has a decent chance to level speed unlike Both Lucas and Valbar. If trained he will for all intents and purposes leave Lucas in the dust. Sadly the 4 move is such a crippling blow as even though he can be good at combat he often arrives late to the battle like all other low movement units given some of the maps are very large and terrain heavy... (armor really makes this much much worse than other 4 move units)

[L9999]

Forsyth's deal is that he can't catch up. Half of Act 3 is the last time knights are useful outside of dungeons, and Forsyth happens to join right at the ending of act 1, as a soldier and when Lukas is already doing the wall thing. Dragging around 1 knight is one thing, but 2 is just too much, Silque and Faye can't waste time with this guys when you have other guys to warp around instead. He doesn't do anything in Zofia Castle and in Act 3 there are way better units to be using. I guess you could use him as witch bait but Clive can do that as well and he contributes something* sometimes. If you like the guy you can make him decent but it is too much investment on a character with a bad class and many other units who deserve/need training during Act 3, like Clair or the healer duo to explore the gargoyle dungeon. Forsyth gets a 1/10 from me, I didn't use him in Gaiden and I skipped him here as well.

Python

Damn, this guy rivals Boey in terms of purely awful bases. Doubled by everything in the map and on top of that innaccurate? Screw his growths, he won't be of any help when he arrives and you keep getting much better characters after he joins. You can live without an archer in Alm's route, its not like Celica route with BS cantors and archer/witch spam. I guess if the RNG blesses you with his so called good growths Python can turn out good but that is relying on an unreliable computer system. He gets a 3/10 from me. 

 

[SSJDennis]

Forsyth was pretty meh when he joined the army. My Lukas didn't promote yet, but was already better in every stat but HP and Res. Because Lukas was already far into level 6, he will most likely promote soon. Forsyth would still require more EXP, while my enemies are gaining "speed" fast. Lukas could at least double earlier. Now he is just a wall. Even when Forsyth might have better growths, I don't see him catching up. Lukas will just be promoting again, and shake him off again. Low movement is just bad when maps get bigger.

Python is actually quite decent, if you didn't pick an archer before. Just need a single fountain speed gain to double and ORKO the enemy archers in his starting level. This is, with the Steel Bow equipped. But if he is your first archer, he will be. Killing them and chipping some others will be pretty helpful. Others can pick off the kills and because you have no other archers, just keep giving him your bows. But, if you did turn any of the villagers into an archer, he will just become absolute. Don't feed that fountain drink and just use the better archer (Kliff).

 

[Raguna]

Whelp that clears up the characters of the first act. Time to move over some mountains and cross the ocean to where the next pair will find their place. The bickering couple of Mae and Boey are now at your discretion. 

Here's Mae, our hyper lady that most of us probably knew in middle school. Mae is essentially a glass cannon sporting stats and growths that you might expect of someone of her class. Her base kit and stats pretty much tell you where she excels and where she doesn't adding weight to my previous assumption. Her lowest stat tends to be skill  and due to the way magic in this game has fixed hitrates, she's the least impided by it, just don't expect her to crit too often which isn't something she really misses.  

In terms of her competition, she vastly outperforms Boey from the get go and contributes slightly more than Celica in the opening chapters. Her having thunder available from the start is a huge boon and her high res means she'll be perfect for the maps focused on magic enemies. She struggles however in maps where a decent number of units are archers with the first map while you head over to Grieth Fortress being a particular thorn on her side. Her low move of 4 will also never be fixed even by promotion and the promotion itself takes away Mae's asset of being able to hit from two spaces away on the enemy phase although it does increase her durability and the use of the ever powerful Seraphim.

Quick synopsis: She hits fast and strong but can't take an axe to the face. She's built to go in first and get protected by her allies as dodge-tanking like in Fates is at best unreliable. 

 

Our boy Boey who from what I remember is the only male student present in Novis. If Mae's the glass cannon, this guy is the cannon and like a cannon, he isn't really going to be doubling his shots in one round of combat. Boey arrives with a heavy emphasis on defense and HP but having to compete with the spell weight of even fire causes him to mostly do either chip damage or a final blow on enemies that survived some other hit. You could in theory also give him the spd shrine boosts from Novis but Genny and Celica make far better use of it than he does, but it's an option. 

Think of him as the magic version of a knight. He can get in, deal and take some damage and then get out, but this in itself is a gamble as while his HP is high, it will obviously keep going down. His potency will increase even further when he gains Sagittae for true chances of one-shots against certain enemies and if he's still in use by that point, his growth in skill should have grown big enough to reap the efforts of Excalibur. 

Overall he does okay, probably the weakest of the Novis bunch, but being a mage in a game riddled with low res enemies gives him use if nothing else. 

[joshcja]

May is uuuuh, there alright, useful enough early on but she falls on her neck harder than Ceilica once you hit the desert and winds up on-par with base Sonya. Promotion is a pipe dream but she see's enough combat to become shovebot/10 and is a suprisingly solid cav if forked. 4/10

Boey like Mae is a chiplord and a shovebot at base and not much else. Still see's deployment though and may actually promote by tower better lategame same function early game 5/10. Forked Archer Boey is a solid 10/10 though.

Edited June 14, 2017 by joshcja

[L9999]

Mae

She is overrated. As soon as Celica route starts you have to dump all the exp on Celica and Genny so they can get Seraphim and Invoke respectively fast, otherwise Barth's Fortress and dracozombie island are impossible to beat. Before you even think it you get Saber, Kamui and Leon, who all are deserving of training to make the later chapters easier. On Act 3 you get Palla and Catria, who are also deserving of training. That's the deal, Mae has too much competition the entire time. Mae's durability is absolute trash. Having suicidal magic along poor HP and defense is asking her to get killed as soon as the enemy phase start. Promoting her is the most painful experience since playing Gaiden, as she gains a pathetic amount of experience at every stage of the game. Also, 4 move. Absolutely pathetic when you have Dread Fighters and Falco Knights running about. So what does Mae contribute? Thunder spam on a couple dudes and Seraphim spam on Act 4. She is worthwhile filler but she will never do anything impressive or remarkable during the playthrough. 7/10.

Boey

This guy is garbage and bottom 5 in the game for sure. Despite having high defense his durability is bad because everything doubles him. Couple that with suicidal magic and the guy is already near death of a single fight on enemy phase. I guess he has utility to chip enemies but that is it. 1/10.

@joshcja Are you serious about Archer Boey? 

Edited June 14, 2017 by L9999

[FoxyGrandpa]

Mae from my experience was pretty good, though my Mae ended up getting really good stat gains in defense, which may have contributed to her usefulness. Her ability to ORKO most enemies in the early game was extremely useful in maps like Grieth's Fortress, where she was able to easily dispatch the snipers with Thunder. She falls off quite a bit in the later game though since her movement, range, and spells don't really improve too much after getting Aura, but she still has her uses with the recover spell once she promotes.

I gave Boey 2 Speed boost from the lion head statue in the early game, so he started out pretty decent there. However, my Boey got stat screwed hard, to the point where his only good stat was strength in the mid game. He ended up being a terrible front-lines unit since his defense was pretty low and he got doubled by everything. However, his 3 range chip damage from thunder was still incredibly useful since he could take between a third to a half of the enemies health, making him invaluable to help train weaker units like Est, who struggle to ORKO enemies early on. Once he promoted to a sage, his usefulness as a chipper improved due to the Arrow Spell Allowing him to chip 60-75% of the enemies health, which was extremely useful against the Hi-Knights use encounter later in the game. Recover Spell also gave him a bit of added utility as a healer. Overall, not as good as Mae or Celica, but he still is fairly useful.

On 6/10/2017 at 3:56 PM, L9999 said:

Python

Damn, this guy rivals Boey in terms of purely awful bases. Doubled by everything in the map and on top of that innaccurate? Screw his growths, he won't be of any help when he arrives and you keep getting much better characters after he joins. You can live without an archer in Alm's route, its not like Celica route with BS cantors and archer/witch spam. I guess if the RNG blesses you with his so called good growths Python can turn out good but that is relying on an unreliable computer system. He gets a 3/10 from me. 

 

Disagree with this statement completely. There are a several hordes of Sorcerers on Alm's Route and their ridiculous damage output makes them very dangerous for most standard units to go up against, especially if you can't kill them all in one round of combat. Archer's ability double attack them (assuming they have Mire) makes the class really valuable on Alm's route.

I will say that Kliff winding up being a significantly better Archer than Python for me since his Resistance, Speed and Skill stats were significantly higher (allowing him to go up against horders of Sorcerer's much more safely and wield heavier and less accurate Bows with less penalties) but Python was still a strong contributor for a majority of the game as a mage killer. Outside of his ability to kill mages, he's still decent for being able to deal decent chip damage to things like Terrors, Paladins, etc. 

[L9999]

On 2017-6-14 at 1:13 AM, FoxyGrandpa said:

Disagree with this statement completely. There are a several hordes of Sorcerers on Alm's Route and their ridiculous damage output makes them very dangerous for most standard units to go up against, especially if you can't kill them all in one round of combat. Archer's ability double attack them (assuming they have Mire) makes the class really valuable on Alm's route.

I will say that Kliff winding up being a significantly better Archer than Python for me since his Resistance, Speed and Skill stats were significantly higher (allowing him to go up against horders of Sorcerer's much more safely and wield heavier and less accurate Bows with less penalties) but Python was still a strong contributor for a majority of the game as a mage killer. Outside of his ability to kill mages, he's still decent for being able to deal decent chip damage to things like Terrors, Paladins, etc. 

I have played without archers, arcanist are not a big threat because their stats stink. Matilda and Cav!Kliff can kill them safely. Alm can kill them with Double Lion. Most characters in Alm's route have enough HP to survive them on enemy phase.

Edited June 15, 2017 by L9999

[joshcja]

4 hours ago, L9999 said:

 

@joshcja Are you serious about Archer Boey? 

Yes.

For a given value of serious.

Edited June 14, 2017 by joshcja

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm not finished the game yet (in Act 4) but I'm really surprised at some of the negative comments about the mages, who just seem extremely good so far (outside of low move, which yeah is definitely a problem, but at least they're worth it unlike armour knights). Terrain is a big thorn in your side in this game and mages ignore it. Most enemies have way lower Res than defence. Mages don't worry about inventory slots and can equip shields to shore up their durability.

Mae in particular has been my arguable MVP of Celica's route thus far (mine's slightly speed-blessed to be fair, so she can one-round virtually anything, but she's pretty speedy on average). Boey's stat spread is worse so he has much more trouble doubling but he's still decent enough.

[Etrurian emperor]

I don't entirely get the hate for Boey as a unit. He's a mage and with magic ignoring terrain and a lot of enemies having low resistance he will always have a role to play. He definitely starts to lag behind in the later chapters but by then he generally has the ability to heal which ensures he keeps having a use, healing units and weakening the enemy for other units to take down. He's not great by any means but I certainly found him passable. He definitely isn't a Python grade unit. 

Mae is good. Nothing more nothing less. In the later chapters she also starts lagging behind a bit but she also get Serephan and with so many enemies being Terrors its much less noticeable then Boey's decline in performance. 

Edited June 14, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Baldrick]

Boey's problem is his effective base 1, 30% growth speed. With the razor-thin doubling threshold, every point of speed is vital, and he's competing with Mae who has +3 in base in +10% in growth. It's also easier to patch up a poor defense than a poor speed.

[Interdimensional Observer]

47 minutes ago, David Boey said:

It's also easier to patch up a poor defense than a poor speed.

Yeah Steel Shield is pretty good. By itself, it offers +5 Def, and then you can spam Defensive for another +5 Def. So +10 Def total, that is pretty darn big. Sure you lose 2 Spd, and you can't use a weapon with it (nor attack on the player phase if you want to use Defensive), but that only serves to keep it balanced.

[Water Mage]

I feel like people don't look at all possibilities when talking about Mae and Boey. While Mae starts out very good, her performance tends to go down by Act 3. Boey, I feel like the opposite. He has a rough start, but can end up more useful than Mae. In a game where magic cost HP, a tanky unit like Boey is actually pretty valuable, particularly towards late game, where the HP costs for the spells gets higher and higher.

[L9999]

On 2017-6-14 at 9:10 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Yeah Steel Shield is pretty good. By itself, it offers +5 Def, and then you can spam Defensive for another +5 Def. So +10 Def total, that is pretty darn big. Sure you lose 2 Spd, and you can't use a weapon with it (nor attack on the player phase if you want to use Defensive), but that only serves to keep it balanced.

A mage with no speed is a waste of digital space. The point of having speed is to double and do more damage, because for those who don't look the enemy stats their resistance is not 0 the entire game. Mage's enemy phase is already bad because they drain their HP and have to use bricks like Fire, and you want them to get doubled and die faster? 

Edited June 16, 2017 by L9999

[MrSmokestack]

Spoiler

Skipped Python and Forsyth since I haven't used either of them. Though the consensus seems to be that they're mediocre at best so I didn't miss much

There isn't much else to say that hasn't already been noted thus far about the starting mages; both are effective contributors from the get-go with their ability to hit Res at range, especially with a mage ring. Supports prop up their shaky hit rates--albeit unaffected by terrain--and Boey even has Saggitae in lategame for good chip. Mae has Aura and Seraphim for deleting high Def terrors like fiends, and both carry standard fare in Recover for extra healing just as poison tiles and Upheaval start showing up.

However, the game provides fewer opportunities to train the pair without slowing down progress, and Sonya is likely to match their stats but at a lower level when she joins, so they tend to fall off from Act III onwards.

A Spd-screwed Mae is perhaps the saddest sight to behold. Pray such misfortune never falls upon you.

[Raguna]

Actually like said previously both units do well enough since in Echoes you don't really have a crap unit and they all contribute in a certain way. Mae and Boey just heavily suffer from movement when everyone on your team besides the mages and Valbar will be flying/galloping or moving at ninja speed which leaves them heavily lagging behind since unlike the slower units in Alm's route, they can't abuse Silque's warp to get them places. That said here's our next set who will contribute from start to finish.

Here's Genny the shy girl who for a second made me think they put Lana from FE 4 in here instead.  Genny is the only cleric and the most effective healer that you will ever have in Celica's group. She carries with her nice bases and generally average to great growths growth rates except in two stats that I will mention later. Her magic growth is absolutely ridiculous starting at 60% with the likelihood of it increasing helping her range out more and more as she increases it. Her ability to gain Invoke, Expel and the ever useful Seraphim as a Saint shouldn't be ignored either. 

For a quick comparison, you could say Silque is the bulky one compared to Genny's traditional healer role. She suffers from an incredibly low health pool and incredibly low defense at 1 which will not likely improve outside of a shrine or promotion. Her speed is also rather shaky and out of the starting four units in Celica's group. Genny is actually the best choice to dump the spd shrines for in the long run. She gains 5 move as a Saint so she'll keep up the pace better than Boey or Mae and lastly if you feel that she needs some protection, just set her with a leather/steel shield since she's built more as a possible crit nuke especially against Terrors  once her offensive capabilities stack up.

Saints are honestly some of the best classes in this game and Genny will likely see the most use of out your starting four-man squad even if it's just as a ranged heal bot. Now the other best class.

The merc Saber, he just kind of tags along on the ride for the hell of it. Saber joins as your first merc and physical unit built to tank the blows coming your way until you reach Valbar's group and he will pull his weight well.  

For the most part, he will exceed many expectations as his early  join time, great base stats and emphasis on defense gives him a decisive edge over his competition in the long run. Considering how crazy good the Dread Fighters's promotion gains are in str, skill, spd and move, Saber focusing on Defense gives him more durability in the long run and his nice 6 res will make him stand out more when compared to Kamui. Jesse while potentially coming out the strongest if trained, is hampered by the fact that he joins right when terrain is becoming harder to maneuver in. Deen actually makes the strongest case for competition against Saber but seeing as he won't be available for use if one picks Sonya over him and his later join time, Saber edges out. 

I'd say he's best unit on Celica's route as he keeps improving without one having to really have to go incredibly far for it. A unit that will be in your active party in dungeons from start to finish by his strengths alone.

[joshcja]

Genny gets some nice tech in physic, invoke(!), and the sant passives early on and holds her own in combat during act 2. Past that she falls off as a combat unit but physic and pseudo-fog keep her relevant all game long 8/10

Saber is the first merc on celica's route, he's not bringing anything special to the table but 1st merc is first merc 10/10.

[L9999]

Genny

She is no doubts a top 3 character in Celica's route, and this party of useless scrubs wouldn't be the same without her. As soon as she arrives she should be fed exp so she can learn Invoke. It may summon soldiers with awful stats, but here's the catch: The AI ALWAYS targets them. This allows to get through Barth's Island without being overpowered by all the pirates and it distracts the dracozombies in the Sea Shrine in case Celica can't ORKO them. What more can you ask? Yeah, Physic. Genny's magic base and growth are fantastic so her Physic will likely reach the whole screen on average, and it completely trivializes her training. Before ending Act 2 she should be promoted, and she no longer has to stick with Lolferatu on player phase, thanks to Genny's magic stat Seraphim hits really hard, perfect to kill the annoying gargoyles and bonewalkers. Saints have a very convenient skill that negates damage from swamps and she can also heal adjacent allies at the beginning of her turn. In terms of equipment Genny has dibs on the Leather Shield at the beginning and she may well be the sole user of the Holy Ring once Mae's usefulness has vanished. She gets a 10/10. 

Saber

He is a mercenary, he is guaranteed to be good. In the first boat maps he is the only one who can take hits and not get chipped to death, so he has utility as soon as he arrives. His promotion gains are ridiculous and his bases are good so you should never worry about getting RNG screwed. He will likely promote at the Sea Shrine and proceed to have the lead in level (and possibly stats) over the other mercenaries. As a Dread Fighter Saber doesn't give a damn about terrain, gets 7 movement, and more resistance. For equipment either a forged Blessed Sword or a Brave Sword get the job done, you will be trading those around frequently so it's not like its his prf weapon or anything. He gets a 9/10.

Edited June 17, 2017 by L9999

[MrSmokestack]

Oh, I love these two.

Genny is your only choice for a healer early on in Celica's route, and so she has a monopoly on all the healing exp. Early Physic is incredible as well as Invoke to deal with crowds, especially during Dolth Keep. Promotion keeps her up with Seraphim to contribute *some* combat against terrors, which is always welcome utility in Celica's route. Oh, and she's cute and one of my favorite units. What more could you ask for?

Easily the best unit in Celica's route, if not the entire game.

 

Saber makes for a pretty great Ogma. His bases keep him dependable even if his growths might leave him in the dust towards the end. Kamui does end up beating him out statistically, but this won't happen for quite a long time.

Plenty of Spd to never get doubled, decent Atk, and an actual Def and Res stat to go along with Dread Fighter and high Mov? Saber is a fantastic unit overall.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Impressions based on mid Act 4

Genny: She's not a very exciting unit and her fragility can be frustrating at points but Invoke and Physic are both pretty great. She's significantly better than Silque in my eyes, since having those > having Warp. I generally found Celica's maps way easier than Alm's maps and she's part of why.

Saber: I had to read up on things to see make sure I wasn't going crazy, but I'm not: Saber has the same base def as Celica/Boey (2 more HP than Celica). And unlike them he can't use a shield without turning his offence into garbage, and he needs to face counters to do damage. Dread Fighter's a cool promotion for sure (finally, a non-pegknight on Celica's route with good move! And magic tanking to boot!) but he's the least useful of the first five units at base IMO, so I don't really get the super-high scores. Certainly better than Kamui, though, who in turn is probably the best of the Valbar trio, so still a good unit.

[Alastor15243]

Genny: Physic/10, with easy access to a blessed ring allowing her to spam it like there's no tomorrow.

Saber: Easily the best all-around physical unit and the most durable all-around unit on Celica's path, beating out Valbar by virtue of not getting doubled by mages.