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Tempest Torture


Arthur97
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2 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Oh yes, I'd definitely like to see that, especially since all my dancers and my two main fighters have now maxed HM and have way too much SP, so there's no reason for me to grind with them... and I don't want another team because I tried that at the end and it was nowhere near as efficient. 

Tempest made me really regret grinding HM on the Kozaki maps since by the time Tempest came most of my main units already had max HM :/

I ended up filling up three entire rows of max HM (partway though my fourth) by the end of Tempest though, so at least it was still reasonably productive?

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2 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

Tempest made me really regret grinding HM on the Kozaki maps since by the time Tempest came most of my main units already had max HM :/

I ended up filling up three entire rows of max HM (partway though my fourth) by the end of Tempest though, so at least it was still reasonably productive?

Well, I maxed Soren and Cecilia, and was well on the way with Nino, so my green mages saw use. 

From earlier teams, M!Robin and Priscilla also got up to the 1500's, and Sanaki, Hector and my mage girls didn't do too badly either. 

I did some grinding at the end, but not as much as others. I can't complain about the HM I did get, though :) 

I do have to change my arena team fully, now, though... but I guess it makes me think outside the box. If I struggle, I can always go back to the usuals :)

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3 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Ampharos, not all of us are able to produce consistent deathless 5-map Lunatic.

All the more encouragement to improve your team and improve your game so that someday you, too, can smash 7-map Lunatic.

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

All the more encouragement to improve your team and improve your game so that someday you, too, can smash 7-map Lunatic.

Honestly, the problem area comes from whether we get Awakening bonus units and maps again or they choose a different theme. Ferox and That One Tree are terrible maps.

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I mean, it's been said time and again that no team can offer perfect coverage, but frankly your composition is weak if it's losing Lunatic 7 more than it's winning.

Edited by MrSmokestack
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You don't need to get through on your first team to get close to a perfect score, as long as you can get a good speed score.

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1 hour ago, phineas81707 said:

Honestly, the problem area comes from whether we get Awakening bonus units and maps again or they choose a different theme. Ferox and That One Tree are terrible maps.

If you have difficulty with getting the speed bonus, you can run two dancers and one or two infantry glass cannons. The game gives you two free Olivias and Nino is easy to summon. I love the tree map since it quickly taught me to abandon ponies in favor of using more dancers.

Ferox (I think you are talking about the snowy one) is ridiculously easy and quick since I can dance and wipe out the entire right hand side on turn one, and then kill the left in turn two or three depending on how they move.

The tree map takes a little longer, but it is not that bad since they usually give you a free kill near the tree to agro everyone else. It usually takes four turns at most for me if they have an enemy near the tree. If not, then it will take more since I need to dance my glass cannon to reach the enemy all the way on the top right.

I do not see anything wrong with the bonus units. Everyone gets the 1.2 bonus for free, and 1.4 bonus is a reward for people who support the game with money.

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2 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you have difficulty with getting the speed bonus, you can run two dancers and one or two infantry glass cannons. The game gives you two free Olivias and Nino is easy to summon. I love the tree map since it quickly taught me to abandon ponies in favor of using more dancers.

Ferox (I think you are talking about the snowy one) is ridiculously easy and quick since I can dance and wipe out the entire right hand side on turn one, and then kill the left in turn two or three depending on how they move.

The tree map takes a little longer, but it is not that bad since they usually give you a free kill near the tree to agro everyone else. It usually takes four turns at most for me if they have an enemy near the tree. If not, then it will take more since I need to dance my glass cannon to reach the enemy all the way on the top right.

I do not see anything wrong with the bonus units. Everyone gets the 1.2 bonus for free, and 1.4 bonus is a reward for people who support the game with money.

I have a Nino and a Linde, both with amazing (if annoyingly -Res) natures. And yet it still annoys me when people say Nino is easy to come by. That's my only Nino.

I'm complaining about the Arena map with the pipe seams walls that you have to destroy- and get pulled out of position because the AI isn't helping you. I had no idea the snowy one was based on Ferox, too.

My problem is that, while I have a pretty good Tharja, she only started getting inheritance with the Tempest, and I don't have the resources to give her more than Reposition and Triangle Adept 2. I don't know whether another set will be better or worse, though. (I also have Robin and Nowi, and I'm completely F2P).

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12 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not see anything wrong with the bonus units. Everyone gets the 1.2 bonus for free, and 1.4 bonus is a reward for people who support the game with money.

Speaking of multipliers, for how much Tempest was touted as a survival mode, I was a bit surprised to see Speed have a much bigger impact on the final score than Survival, since depending on the map and enemy composition, finishing quickly to get the maximum Spd bonus can be nigh impossible. Usually, Ferox and the infamous Tree map end up being the biggest offenders. Meanwhile, losing a unit gives a measly .05 drop in Survival as opposed to 0.1 in Speed for losing a turn.

If Tempest gets balanced the next time it runs, I mainly just want to see more maps get added to the rotation as well as tweak the Speed multiplier to be a bit more forgiving, while making the penalty on Survival more harsh to compensate. Free vs Paid bonus unit multiplier is fine as is, though.

Overall, I like how IS handled Tempest Trials. The grind is just a trait it shares with other gacha games rather than being a fault in and of itself.

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9 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

I have a Nino and a Linde, both with amazing (if annoyingly -Res) natures. And yet it still annoys me when people say Nino is easy to come by. That's my only Nino.

I'm complaining about the Arena map with the pipe seams walls that you have to destroy- and get pulled out of position because the AI isn't helping you. I had no idea the snowy one was based on Ferox, too.

My problem is that, while I have a pretty good Tharja, she only started getting inheritance with the Tempest, and I don't have the resources to give her more than Reposition and Triangle Adept 2. I don't know whether another set will be better or worse, though. (I also have Robin and Nowi, and I'm completely F2P).

Well, Nino is relatively easy to come by for most people. As long as you use Orbs efficiently and not sniping, Nino is fairly common.

For the Feroxi Arena, it does take a little while to set up. I break the two left most walls on my first turn, and kill the left most enemy on my second or third turn. Once I agro the rest of the enemies, it usually lasts one more turn and rarely two. It usually takes less than five turns for me. If their only ranged unit is a healer, it goes by a lot quicker since I just let my B!Cordelia break a wall and let their healer suicide.

 

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7 minutes ago, XRay said:

Well, Nino is relatively easy to come by for most people. As long as you use Orbs efficiently and not sniping, Nino is fairly common.

Ehhh ... theoretically this should be true, but sometimes you just have that one ridiculously common unit that you've never pulled. I still haven't gotten a Hinata or a Frederick since I started on my current file back in February. Which is kind of annoying, because Frederick has quite a few skills that I really want that are hard to get from anyone else.

For future Tempest events, I hope survivability is weighed higher than speed if only because of how much the developers themselves stressed permadeath. I'm otherwise happy with the mode because I got a lot of hero merit from it.

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4 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Ehhh ... theoretically this should be true, but sometimes you just have that one ridiculously common unit that you've never pulled. I still haven't gotten a Hinata or a Frederick since I started on my current file back in February. Which is kind of annoying, because Frederick has quite a few skills that I really want that are hard to get from anyone else.

Fun fact: I got my first Clarine in the Bridal pool. I also still lack Gordin among heroes I know to be 3*-4*.

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Just now, phineas81707 said:

Fun fact: I got my first Clarine in the Bridal pool. I also still lack Gordin among heroes I know to be 3*-4*.

I'd give you one of my Gordins if I could. That guy just keeps on showing up ... and showing up ... and showing up for me. I already have a +atk -HP Gordin that will suffice!

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1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

I'd give you one of my Gordins if I could. That guy just keeps on showing up ... and showing up ... and showing up for me. I already have a +atk -HP Gordin that will suffice!

So yeah, I checked the overall pool (Serenes is one of the only places that lists the 3-4* pool), and apart from Laslow (who I've only pulled pre-inheritance) and Draug (who I've only obtained for free), the only such characters I have never pulled are Gordin and Bartre.

So yeah, I wouldn't say that any one 3-4* character is 'easy' to have.

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49 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Speaking of multipliers, for how much Tempest was touted as a survival mode, I was a bit surprised to see Speed have a much bigger impact on the final score than Survival, since depending on the map and enemy composition, finishing quickly to get the maximum Spd bonus can be nigh impossible. Usually, Ferox and the infamous Tree map end up being the biggest offenders. Meanwhile, losing a unit gives a measly .05 drop in Survival as opposed to 0.1 in Speed for losing a turn.

If Tempest gets balanced the next time it runs, I mainly just want to see more maps get added to the rotation as well as tweak the Speed multiplier to be a bit more forgiving, while making the penalty on Survival more harsh to compensate. Free vs Paid bonus unit multiplier is fine as is, though.

Overall, I like how IS handled Tempest Trials. The grind is just a trait it shares with other gacha games rather than being a fault in and of itself.

I think that stems from a misunderstanding. Heroes already does plenty to incentivize survival, but Tempest was advertised specifically as a permadeath mode. To make that "permadeath" feature come into play (as opposed to in traditional FE games, where it's such a big issue that players just avoid it by not letting their characters die), Tempest incentivizes playing in ways that will risk letting characters get killed but offers enough rewards to make it so that that doesn't constitute a "failure" like it does in regular FE and regular Heroes. This means the "make backup teams with your surviving units" option actually gets used.

What that works out to is that incentivizing speed over survival to encourage sacrificing units where necessary is exactly what Tempest needs in order to function as it's supposed to. It's just that there's some misunderstandings about how it's supposed to function, because it's at odds with what we're used to thinking of "permadeath" as meaning.

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8 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

For future Tempest events, I hope survivability is weighed higher than speed if only because of how much the developers themselves stressed permadeath. I'm otherwise happy with the mode because I got a lot of hero merit from it.

I think they add maps in batches based on the story chapters. Unless they change the formula or add more chapters, I think we will be stuck with 10 maps for now per event. Mystery has two chapters, Binding/Blazing combined has two chapters, and Fates combined has two chapters.

I do not really mind how they handle bonus points as long as they give us bonus points. However, it does seem weird that they focus on low turn count rather than survival.

7 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

So yeah, I wouldn't say that any one 3-4* character is 'easy' to have.

I guess that is true. I do not remember staying F2P for very long, so I have harder time empathizing with F2P issues.

27 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I'd give you one of my Gordins if I could.

I would not mind if they added trading either. I can trade away all the B!Cordelias and B!Lyns I have for S!Camilla or a better B!Cordelia.

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10 minutes ago, Othin said:

What that works out to is that incentivizing speed over survival to encourage sacrificing units where necessary is exactly what Tempest needs in order to function as it's supposed to. It's just that there's some misunderstandings about how it's supposed to function, because it's at odds with what we're used to thinking of "permadeath" as meaning.

I'm gonna agree with this- in Advance Wars, a valid tactic is to leaving something 'expensive' but not particularly helpful in range of the enemy, so they waste attacks on that rather than the more dangerous units like capturing infantry. You'd never dream of doing the same in Fire Emblem because you can't just build another one, but permadeath is, in theory, supposed to be about balancing sacrifices like this with limited resources.

Ie. You wouldn't run a sacrifice in FE because you don't have the resources to swallow the loss when 'making up for losses with limited resources' is part of the war effort that, without it, neither Advance Wars nor Fire Emblem can really make up. Well, FE's weapon durability, maybe.

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5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

All the more encouragement to improve your team and improve your game so that someday you, too, can smash 7-map Lunatic.

I was doing 7 map deathless (or at least 'wipe'less) runs since my first* run, and even then I still couldn't be arsed to get any more than 50k.

The time investment is very high, even if it's more efficient for SP and HM from a stamina perspective, it's far less so in terms of a time perspective. (This is because you can just auto-battle for HM and SP in stratum, by deliberately fighting at the level your team can just auto through.)

 

Edit: *First in the sense of my first Lunatic 7-map run, I think I did hard and Lunatic 5-map first, just too see what it's like.

Edited by DehNutCase
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I missed 50k by a few hundred points... as my last match went overtime and was not counted. :\

It's all fine and good to say that the 50k and 99k were achievable, but even with regular deathless runs and regular play over the time of the Tempest Trials it was a total grind.

...one that could leave you feeling quite pissed off in the end. I just hope Quickened Pulse reappears at some point, sooner rather than later. :|

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19 hours ago, XRay said:

I think they add maps in batches based on the story chapters. Unless they change the formula or add more chapters, I think we will be stuck with 10 maps for now per event. Mystery has two chapters, Binding/Blazing combined has two chapters, and Fates combined has two chapters.

Actually, Mystery has 13 since it also has a xenologue.

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9 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Actually, Mystery has 13 since it also has a xenologue.

A Paralogue, but yeah. Blazing also has a Paralogue, so that brings Binding/Blazing up to 13 as well.

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Just now, Othin said:

A Paralogue, but yeah. Blazing also has a Paralogue, so that brings Binding/Blazing up to 13 as well.

I forgot about that one. Though I'm still calling Mystery for the next one. I also think "Marth" will be here to stay for the other trials too.

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"Tempest Torture", in every sense of the word. Next time, I'll definitely be far better equipped and timely. With that said, how much do you think will be between them? At the very least, I'd give it two weeks, if not a whole month (actually pretty reasonable). It makes you feel like you're earning your "money".

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I'm not sure if they'll put binding & blazing together like FE1 & 3 are.

Conquest & Birthright being put together would make sense, they're alternate takes on the same world in the same time. Also Fates gets the big name anyway.

Meanwhile SD & Mystery probably get thrown together (despite Sheena being the only Mystery exclusive character until the recent banner) since they share 90-100% of the cast depending on the version of mystery.

Alternatively, they may actually just go by "world". So instead of Trouble over Elibe, it would be Trouble over Blazing or Shadows over Binding. Instead of Fates, it would be Birthright, Conquest, Revelation separately. Even a Mystery tempest could excluse the latest maps since those are "World of Mystery Renewed" rather than "World of Mystery"

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