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Just got this game and I like it a lot so far.


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5 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

It's not Ike and he's not in the game, so which one of us realistically thought it had any chance at all?

Oh hell, it was worth a shot.

Isn't Alm sort of like Ike? Both have humble beginnings, lack refinement in conversation, and scale really well gameplaywise. You'd think those who like one would take a liking to the other.

 

Of course, I like neither.

Also, amiibo.

Edited by MrSmokestack
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1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

Isn't Alm sort of like Ike? Both have humble beginnings, lack refinement in conversation, and scale really well gameplaywise. You'd think those who like one would take a liking to the other.

I love Alm. I find that I care less and less for Ike as time goes on.

At the end of the day, Alm was always a noble even if he didn't know it - fans of peasants Ike will always hold that against Alm.

Gameplay wise they are both incredibly dominant units.

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21 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

There's so much Gaiden has in store for Ana yet, if it's this bad already.

I wonder how she'll react when she gets ambushed by the Necrodragons on Alm's route in Act 4. Or those two specific maps where Upheaval happens.

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5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I wonder how she'll react when she gets ambushed by the Necrodragons on Alm's route in Act 4. Or those two specific maps where Upheaval happens.

Even earlier than that:

-The first cantor she comes across on the boat map.

-Or even keeping the Whitewings and Valbar's men alive on their respective maps.

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Just now, MrSmokestack said:

-Or even keeping the Whitewings and Valbar's men alive on their respective maps.

I can understand keeping Valbar's men alive on that map because Leon just loved getting killed when i did that map on my first playthrough. But keeping the Whitewings alive on their map was never really hard. I just had Saber, Mae, and Boey start at the spot closest to the Whitewings. By that time, Saber was a Myrmidon already so the Brigands were just target practice for him.

 

2 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

-The first cantor she comes across on the boat map.

Speaking of Cantors, wait until she has to deal with Dolth. Necrodragon Cantors are fun. Well, it actually was fun for me, since Falcon Knight Palla+forged Blessed Lance easily kills any Terror that isn't a Fiend. Best part is that Palla herself took little damage in return, even from Necrodragons. Again though, Fiends are a different story. Those things are probably the scariest Terror in the game, design-wise and gameplay-wise.

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Okay, can we not talk about people behind their backs? Seriously, I get it, this game has surprises for me and it's a lot more different than I thought it'd be. I admit I messed up early because I was caught totally off guard by the differences. Doesn't mean all of you have to poke so much fun at it.

Edited by Anacybele
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15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I can understand keeping Valbar's men alive on that map because Leon just loved getting killed when i did that map on my first playthrough. But keeping the Whitewings alive on their map was never really hard. I just had Saber, Mae, and Boey start at the spot closest to the Whitewings. By that time, Saber was a Myrmidon already so the Brigands were just target practice for him.

 

Fiends are a different story. Those things are probably the scariest Terror in the game, design-wise and gameplay-wise.

The Whitewings dying could still happen if you didn't know that you can Physic them. It'll happen somehow. There's always a way.

Running 0 mages could almost be a thing if Fiends didn't exist. Either attack them with magic or don't fight them at all. And the latter isn't always possible.

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I'd not even count this game as a classic FE game, but rather as a SRPG with FE elements.
Anyways this game has actual a story, a really good one, unlike the previous parts for the 3DS.

Gameplaywise it leaves to be a desired a little bit.
The map design is poor for the most part, mechanics like weapon triangle don't exist, inventory is limited to one space for everyone. Also the huge terrain boost is annoying (mainly the opponent benefits from it). It's a remake so to expect several changes would be a mess and ruin the nostalgy of the original FE2. However some nice features like skills or bexp. were added. 

As for someone who dislikes FE2 because of its clunkiness and slow gameplay, I still enjoyed Echoes. The story was told very well although I really disliked Celica's role in part 4 + 5. And some issues of the gameplay were fixed. Not the best FE part overall, but still a decent one. It's definitely my favorite of the 3DS parts although Conquest's gameplay was still really good.

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6 hours ago, Anacybele said:

And white magic is healing? Game didn't make that obvious at all. Again, poor design.

If I may point out, the reason why it wasn't explained in the original gaiden was of cartridge limitations. The reason it wasn't explained in Echoes is because Final Fantasy's been out for 30 years and has made white magic synonymous with restoration and healing.

 

Also a tip. Silque's invoke is broken. Not like it doesn't work. It. Breaks. The. Game. Like it's an invoke to take into the final battle.

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1 hour ago, Thran Starcrod said:

If I may point out, the reason why it wasn't explained in the original gaiden was of cartridge limitations. The reason it wasn't explained in Echoes is because Final Fantasy's been out for 30 years and has made white magic synonymous with restoration and healing.

And even if SoV is the first game ever that uses White Magic as synonym of healing, it wouldn't be bad game design either. The White Magic option appears every time in the menu when performing an action, you can simply check it, see the options, and quickly realize what it means. You can choose to perform an action, or cancel out of the menu and do something else.

Sometimes players have to find out things on their own by exploring their options. You can't expect the game to make everything so obvious.

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5 hours ago, Jave said:

Sometimes players have to find out things on their own by exploring their options. You can't expect the game to make everything so obvious.

This. I would feel pretty insulted if the game had to hold my hand and explain all the caveats as well as basic actions and commands before finally letting me out of the bird's nest, complete with unskippable cutscenes and dialogue coughFE7cough

If anything, it's bad game design if it's so obscure or complex that the game has to explain it. Learning how the game works for yourself is only half the fun.

Edited by MrSmokestack
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8 hours ago, Thran Starcrod said:

If I may point out, the reason why it wasn't explained in the original gaiden was of cartridge limitations. The reason it wasn't explained in Echoes is because Final Fantasy's been out for 30 years and has made white magic synonymous with restoration and healing.

 

Also a tip. Silque's invoke is broken. Not like it doesn't work. It. Breaks. The. Game. Like it's an invoke to take into the final battle.

Except I never played Final Fantasy. Not everyone has played it.

Also, seriously, people? I say ONE little thing should've been a bit more obvious and I'm suddenly wanting the whole game to hold my hand? Way to seriously twist my words.

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Except I never played Final Fantasy. Not everyone has played it.

I was being nice earlier in comparison to everyone here basically calling you an idiot. That right there is twisting my goddamn words. If you don't like your words being twisted, don't twist mine. If I wanted to tell you that I think you played final fantasy or that everyone played final fantasy, I'd have said it directly. What I implied is that Final Fantasy is 30 years old, it is very popular, and it is very wide spread. Many JRPGs take inspiration from Final Fantasy, including Fire Emblem. At this point most people should safely know that white magic is restorative and black magic is offensive. Even if they have no final fantasy knowledge, over here in the west, white has connotations of goodness, purity, and light, black has connotations of evil, corruption, and darkness. One could easily infer without being told that white magic will help which includes restoration. And even if for some reason that failed, pressing the A button just one more time would've brought up the menu for Silque which says Nosferatu 0, Recover 1. 

 

I realize that not everyone has grown up gaming in the same era as me, the era where tutorials flat out didn't exist, where we had to figure things out on our own. So I am biased towards games like that, but calling it bad game design is uncalled for. It'd be one thing if you had to do something convoluted and complex, not something simple such as selecting an option in a menu.

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42 minutes ago, Thran Starcrod said:

I was being nice earlier in comparison to everyone here basically calling you an idiot. That right there is twisting my goddamn words. If you don't like your words being twisted, don't twist mine. If I wanted to tell you that I think you played final fantasy or that everyone played final fantasy, I'd have said it directly. What I implied is that Final Fantasy is 30 years old, it is very popular, and it is very wide spread. Many JRPGs take inspiration from Final Fantasy, including Fire Emblem. At this point most people should safely know that white magic is restorative and black magic is offensive. Even if they have no final fantasy knowledge, over here in the west, white has connotations of goodness, purity, and light, black has connotations of evil, corruption, and darkness. One could easily infer without being told that white magic will help which includes restoration. And even if for some reason that failed, pressing the A button just one more time would've brought up the menu for Silque which says Nosferatu 0, Recover 1. 

 

I realize that not everyone has grown up gaming in the same era as me, the era where tutorials flat out didn't exist, where we had to figure things out on our own. So I am biased towards games like that, but calling it bad game design is uncalled for. It'd be one thing if you had to do something convoluted and complex, not something simple such as selecting an option in a menu.

...What? Sorry, but where did I twist anything? That was never my intention and I have no idea what you're talking about. I would never intentionally twist anyone's words like that.

And you can disagree with me, fine, but my opinion on that white magic thing won't change and just because you disagree doesn't mean it's uncalled for.

I'm just going to ask for this thread to be locked. People have derailed it too much. @eclipse Could you work your mod magic, please?

Edited by Anacybele
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@Anacybele Sorry, but this isn't just a case of disagreement on opinions; it's a disagreement on logic. After reading through this and watching an LP up to the end of act 3, I do think your lack of using white magic is on your lack of curiosity and not "bad game design".

Let's say W. Magic indeed wasn't obvious. In that case, I have to ask; why were you not curious as to what W. Magic was initially? Why not click it and see what it is? If you were having trouble finding the healing spells, by process of elimination, you should have checked the only option you never used when setting a healer up next to a damaged unit. The only other options were likely either B. Magic (if you were even nearby an enemy to use Nosferatu), Items, and Wait.

Besides, I imagine you understood what B. Magic was as offensive magic, so what's the opposite of damaging? Healing. And even then, the in-game guide's always there for you if you are unable to figure something out.

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Not to be rude, but your view on the game changed scary fast. The simple fact that you met an unit like the SSGSS Mercenary and called the game "extremely hard" and that you didn't like it anymore makes me think you didn't pay much attention. In Echoes, barely any enemy has any resistance and you can see that right off the first Brigand encounter, and every other encounter in the thief shrine. Having the ability to make 1 or more units of your choice a Mage is not only a necessity for a majority of Act 1, but kinda expected when you visit your first Mila Shrine.

On the white magic subject, even if you didn't know what "White Magic" is, the name "Recover" leaves very little to the imagination. And even if you never played Final Fantasy, you have probably heard of "Black Mage" or "White Mage" or the respective magic types. The names are not even subtle. White Magic has become a known video game trope to any gamer who even knows remotely of JRPGs or the like.

Sorry if I sounded rude in any way.

 

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2 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...What? Sorry, but where did I twist anything? That was never my intention and I have no idea what you're talking about. I would never intentionally twist anyone's words like that.

And you can disagree with me, fine, but my opinion on that white magic thing won't change and just because you disagree doesn't mean it's uncalled for.

I'm just going to ask for this thread to be locked. People have derailed it too much. @eclipse Could you work your mod magic, please?

Doesn't it ever strike you as odd how often you clash with people? Ana, you're always the first person to spit venom, and always the first to be offended by anyone saying anything you interpret as disrespectful.

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1 minute ago, Thane said:

Doesn't it ever strike you as odd how often you clash with people? Ana, you're always the first person to spit venom, and always the first to be offended by anyone saying anything you interpret as disrespectful.

Um, of course. Why shouldn't I be offended at something that I think is disrespectful?

Also, careful, you're kind of coming off as basically saying "fuck off." But I don't think that's your intention, so I'm not getting offended here.

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1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Um, of course. Why shouldn't I be offended at something that I think is disrespectful?

Because you lash out like a baby. I don't know why everyone always treats you with kiddie gloves, but your rudeness and childishness is sickening. 

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3 minutes ago, Thane said:

Because you lash out like a baby. I don't know why everyone always treats you with kiddie gloves, but your rudeness and childishness is sickening. 

Where? Seriously, where do I "lash out like a baby"? Because getting offended =/= "lashing out like a baby." Also, insulting me doesn't make you any better, so I ask you to stop.

I'm not childish, btw.

Edited by Anacybele
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You know, Ana, if you really want to get this thread locked consider that there are many other mods here besides eclipse. She may be a mod, but she's also very busy and is not your go-to fix-it button.

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4 hours ago, Thran Starcrod said:

I was being nice earlier in comparison to everyone here basically calling you an idiot. That right there is twisting my goddamn words. If you don't like your words being twisted, don't twist mine. If I wanted to tell you that I think you played final fantasy or that everyone played final fantasy, I'd have said it directly. What I implied is that Final Fantasy is 30 years old, it is very popular, and it is very wide spread. Many JRPGs take inspiration from Final Fantasy, including Fire Emblem. At this point most people should safely know that white magic is restorative and black magic is offensive. Even if they have no final fantasy knowledge, over here in the west, white has connotations of goodness, purity, and light, black has connotations of evil, corruption, and darkness. One could easily infer without being told that white magic will help which includes restoration. And even if for some reason that failed, pressing the A button just one more time would've brought up the menu for Silque which says Nosferatu 0, Recover 1. 

 

I realize that not everyone has grown up gaming in the same era as me, the era where tutorials flat out didn't exist, where we had to figure things out on our own. So I am biased towards games like that, but calling it bad game design is uncalled for. It'd be one thing if you had to do something convoluted and complex, not something simple such as selecting an option in a menu.

I don't think Ana's comment on twisting words was directed at you. Rather, it was a general statement toward everyone else that were making fun of her for apparently not being aware of what was common knowledge. At least, thats how I saw it, anyway

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

...What? Sorry, but where did I twist anything? That was never my intention and I have no idea what you're talking about. I would never intentionally twist anyone's words like that.

And you can disagree with me, fine, but my opinion on that white magic thing won't change and just because you disagree doesn't mean it's uncalled for.

I'm just going to ask for this thread to be locked. People have derailed it too much. @eclipse Could you work your mod magic, please?

Keyword, intentionally. Sometimes one's interpretation most definitely can be a twist of what was actually being said, but thats more a failure of communication than actively manipulating someone's words against them. From mere observation, a good amount of your clashing with others happen because of this that only get worse cause you seem to take on this inflexibility with your stance for one reason or another. The bolded being an example, since the concept of white magic isn't an opinion; it is fact and has been fact for over 30 years. That you didn't know of it, along with not bothering to figure it out is moreso your own problem than the game, itself.

Granted it is poor practice for any company to make assumptions, it is equally poor practice on your part for not making the effort to figuring out something so simple

Edited by Motendra
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7 minutes ago, Motendra said:

I don't think Ana's comment on twisting words was directed at you. Rather, it was a general statement toward everyone else that were making fun of her for apparently not being aware of what was common knowledge.

Keyword, intentionally. Sometimes one's interpretation most definitely can be a twist of what was actually being said, but thats more a failure of communication than actively manipulating someone's words against them. From mere observation, a good amount of your clashing with others happen because of this that only get worse cause you seem to take on this inflexibility with your stance for one reason or another. The bolded being an example, since the concept of white magic isn't an opinion; it is fact and has been fact for over 30 years. That you didn't know of it, along with not bothering to figure it out is moreso your own problem than the game, itself.

Granted it is poor practice for any company to make assumptions, it is equally poor practice on your part for not making the effort to figuring out something so simple

Sorry, I didn't mean that I disagreed with white magic being healing. I meant that I disagreed that IS didn't need to make it a little more obvious that it IS healing. Because I had no idea and maybe other players didn't either. They shouldn't just assume that every FE player has played Final Fantasy or something.

And yeah, that comment about twisting words was a general statement directed mainly at people who were making fun of me.

But really, conflicts like this are why I've stopped bothering with friendship or conversing heavily with people I don't already know well. I just get made fun of or end up getting into an argument or some other crap. I can't ever seem to have friendly relations with people because it turns into an argument or something. I don't even intentionally make that happen (why would I?). I'll do my best to keep the friends I already have, but I won't be making anymore of them. Don't need the trouble in my life. I'm better off without it. Screw anymore friendship.

Now then, I'm still waiting for this thread to be locked... I guess eclipse hasn't been online yet or maybe doesn't have control over this section.

 

Edited by Anacybele
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Hey @Anacybele, I got some questions for the game that it could be helpful.

  1. Which characters are your favorite in Echoes: Shadows of Valentia?
  2. For Celica's Route in Act 3, to pick Deen or Sonya for Celica's party (Deen is in the Northern Desert and Sonya is in the Southern Desert), which of the two do you prefer to pick to be kept alive while you fight the other one? Deen has the Brave Sword, he is a Myrmidon, & Deen has a support with Jesse, and Sonya has the Excalibur spell, she is a Mage, she has a support with Genny, and she is the youngest daughter of Jedah that didn't turned into a Witch by Duma like her two sisters.
  3. What Arts Combat Skill is your favorite so far?
  4. Did you know that Valbar has the same voice actor as Frederick?
  5. What do you think of Berkut and Frenand (the two added villains in the game) so far?
Edited by King Marth 64
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