How about a story whose lords are an established couple?

[TheSS]

I am shipping trash and therefore all for this.

I haven't played SoV, so I don't know what that was like, but I do know it's important to me that this not be just an implied romance. Relationships in fiction that don't extend beyond the fact that they have feelings for each other irk me to no end.

[vanguard333]

18 hours ago, TheSS said:

I am shipping trash and therefore all for this.

I haven't played SoV, so I don't know what that was like, but I do know it's important to me that this not be just an implied romance. Relationships in fiction that don't extend beyond the fact that they have feelings for each other irk me to no end.

I hear you. If a writer has no idea how to keep two characters interesting after putting them together, then it's the writer's fault. I say this as someone currently writing a fantasy series where two of the main characters in the first book end up together (they stay together for the rest of the series, which, while I haven't figured out how many books it'll be yet, will most likely be more than five). ...And I guess I also say it as someone who hates lazy plot clichés like will-they-or-won't-they and on-again-off-again. It's unrealistic, lazy writing, and just dull (or worse: irritating) once you notice the cliché.

[TheSS]

6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I hear you. If a writer has no idea how to keep two characters interesting after putting them together, then it's the writer's fault. I say this as someone currently writing a fantasy series where two of the main characters in the first book end up together (they stay together for the rest of the series, which, while I haven't figured out how many books it'll be yet, will most likely be more than five). ...And I guess I also say it as someone who hates lazy plot clichés like will-they-or-won't-they and on-again-off-again. It's unrealistic, lazy writing, and just dull (or worse: irritating) once you notice the cliché.

I'm very utilitarian when it comes to how I look at fiction. When talking about romance, I think "What can a romance accomplish for the story?" It can be used as a vehicle for character development and drama, for one thing. But if you just have two characters who are together and you don't want to go down the rabbit hole of making that into a central part of the narrative (a very understandable choice), then you have to design their relationship to be inherently entertaining. Because simply being there for its own sake is all it can do. They need some sort of relationship that is actively fun to watch. One of the reasons Elise and Odin from Fates is so popular (besides optimizing Ophelia) is that it is really fun to watch Elise play along with Odin. It's entertaining and funny and colorful. While I don't think that dynamic is suited for protagonists of a war game, it's definitely the sort of thing I am hoping for when I hear about 'a couple that stays together the whole game'.

My main concern is that the more colorful characters in fire emblem tend to be the side characters, while the protagonists tend to be tame in comparison. Sure, Chrom had some character details. He was kind of tactless which made for some fun gags, and he had a bit of a sarcastic side when he's feeling particularly resigned, but he's a lot less of a character than the people around him (excluding Robin). I mean, one of his most memorable non-dramatic moments was when he got punched in the face by Sumia, and that was entirely due to HER character.

So while I love the idea of a canon couple of protagonists that stay together, I worry about IS actually pulling it off in a way that actually satisfies anyone.

Edited November 28, 2017 by TheSS

[vanguard333]

16 hours ago, TheSS said:

I'm very utilitarian when it comes to how I look at fiction. When talking about romance, I think "What can a romance accomplish for the story?" It can be used as a vehicle for character development and drama, for one thing. But if you just have two characters who are together and you don't want to go down the rabbit hole of making that into a central part of the narrative (a very understandable choice), then you have to design their relationship to be inherently entertaining. Because simply being there for its own sake is all it can do. They need some sort of relationship that is actively fun to watch. One of the reasons Elise and Odin from Fates is so popular (besides optimizing Ophelia) is that it is really fun to watch Elise play along with Odin. It's entertaining and funny and colorful. While I don't think that dynamic is suited for protagonists of a war game, it's definitely the sort of thing I am hoping for when I hear about 'a couple that stays together the whole game'.

My main concern is that the more colorful characters in fire emblem tend to be the side characters, while the protagonists tend to be tame in comparison. Sure, Chrom had some character details. He was kind of tactless which made for some fun gags, and he had a bit of a sarcastic side when he's feeling particularly resigned, but he's a lot less of a character than the people around him (excluding Robin). I mean, one of his most memorable non-dramatic moments was when he got punched in the face by Sumia, and that was entirely due to HER character.

So while I love the idea of a canon couple of protagonists that stay together, I worry about IS actually pulling it off in a way that actually satisfies anyone.

I agree. Romance in a story needs to help the plot, or be inherently entertaining. 

As far as FE protagonists are concerned, I agree that a lot of the protagonists can be rather bland. But IS has made some good ones. Ike is certainly just as much of a character as anyone else in Path of Radiance, and I personally thought the implied romance between Ike and Elincia (key word there being implied) in the North American localization of Path of Radiance was well-written. If they put the level of character development those two had into two FE lords that are an established couple, they could pull it off.

When it comes to satisfying everyone, well, that is an impossible goal. There will always be people who dislike it regardless of what's done, and there's always the risk of making garbage when one tries to satisfy everyone. I know what you mean, but it could be the best written romance ever in an FE game and I would bet not everyone on this site alone, let alone everyone who would buy the game, would like it.

[Altrosa]

I'm not the biggest fan of Celica (which shocks me since I like her as a unit), so looking to SoV as an example is not shining the idea of an established pairing being the leads all that well.

HOWEVER, I don't have any problem with already established couples being leads in fictional works at all. It's really not hard to do, but romance stories tend to have an edge in the role play part of enjoying works.

 

But, yeah, waifu emblem sort of shoots down the idea. The game that gave us the choice of who to pair our self insert and all these characters with was the same one that sold explosively well, brought in a million-ish new players, and it's sequel that lacked it sold comparatively poorly. I'd be more stunned if FE Switch dropped marriages than if that Castlevania Emblem leak turns out to be legit.

[edgelordweeaboo]

shit would be so god damn corny

[Ivy Wife Supremacy]

Yeah at this point since waifus are the big moneymaker and high appeal for Fire Emblem now it shoots down this whole idea although it would be nice if it did.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Blade Lord Lyn

[John Denver Fan]

I would say no, I don't like the idea. I think we had enough marriages in the series for now, but I think it would be acceptable if they where like Alm and Celica. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by John Denver Fan

[Fabulously Olivier]

I'm all for it. It would be a nice change of pace for the series.