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How weak are the enemies in FE7?


Harvey
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28 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Just how exactly are the enemies so weak to the point that its really easy?

Well, they are just reallllllllllly weak. Like this:

wikiHow To Beat FE7 On Normal

Step 1: Give Marcus the best crap you have. Fill him with a bunch of steel lances

Step 2: Use all the buff items you get on Marcus

Step 3: Abuse the nearest arena to get a bunch of money for more lances and a bunch of xp for marcus

Step 4: Get a healer

Step 5: Marcus will drag you through Eliwood's story easily

Step 6: Repeat the steps above in Hector's story

Reminder: Don't turn hard mode on.

...so...you get it. They can be KO-ed in a turn. Like Marcus + Silver Lance can OneTurnKO most bosses.

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7 minutes ago, StahlTheStall said:

Well, they are just reallllllllllly weak. Like this:

wikiHow To Beat FE7 On Normal

Step 1: Give Marcus the best crap you have. Fill him with a bunch of steel lances

Step 2: Use all the buff items you get on Marcus

Step 3: Abuse the nearest arena to get a bunch of money for more lances and a bunch of xp for marcus

Step 4: Get a healer

Step 5: Marcus will drag you through Eliwood's story easily

Step 6: Repeat the steps above in Hector's story

Reminder: Don't turn hard mode on.

...so...you get it. They can be KO-ed in a turn. Like Marcus + Silver Lance can OneTurnKO most bosses.

The way your saying it makes it sound like the actual characters are broken rather than weak enemies here.....FE for as far as I know has always had units that can do solo runs not because they are capable of it but because of the fact that they are overpowered to the point that there's very little reason to use other units unless for bias reasons (really, look at Rajito Ryoma....)

 

 

Edited by Harvey
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47 minutes ago, Glaceon Sage said:

Lets take a moment to acknowledge the second to last main chapter of the game is still throwing unpromoted enemies at you.

By that logic, even the first three semi chapters of FE6 also have a fair amount of unpromoted units at you especially chapter 21 what's your point?

 

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6 minutes ago, Harvey said:

By that logic, even the first three semi chapters of FE6 also have a fair amount of unpromoted units at you especially chapter 21 what's your point?

That the enemies aren't really as strong as they could be near the endgame?

Enemy growthrates are also lower in FE7 than FE6 as well if I remember right.

Edited by Glaceon Sage
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55 minutes ago, Glaceon Sage said:

Lets take a moment to acknowledge the second to last main chapter of the game is still throwing unpromoted enemies at you.

Blazing Blade also has one of the shortest raw campaigns- not counting Lyn Mode, it is as long as Sacred Stones. Sacred Stones is probably longer because you can't skip the Gaiden chapter.

If you cut off the end of Path of Radiance such that it would be as long as the GBA titles, the campaign would end, funnily enough, in the battle against Ena in Nevassa. Putting it in this perspective also puts Ike's promotion in a similar late position as Eliwood and the Sivardsons.

Edited by phineas81707
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2 minutes ago, Glaceon Sage said:

That the enemies aren't really as strong as they could be near the endgame?

Which near the endgame are you referring to? The one where you have to face Limstella? Or the one where Its before this? Because I looked at them both and they have a good chunk of promoted units...

 

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45 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Which near the endgame are you referring to? The one where you have to face Limstella? Or the one where Its before this? Because I looked at them both and they have a good chunk of promoted units...

The one with Limstella has a lot of unpromoted units, and is the chapter I was referring to.

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12 minutes ago, Glaceon Sage said:

The one with Limstella has a lot of unpromoted units, and is the chapter I was referring to.

11 doesn't seem like a lot.

If you ask me, the FE6 chapter 21 has thrice the amount of unpromoted as FE7.

Also I don't see how having unpromoted units proves the point of units being weak since that issue is basically balancing. 

 

Edited by Harvey
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The wyvern knights of chapter 21 you're talking about have maxed strength in hard mode while the unpromoted enemies in FE7 are far away of having anything capped.
Also in FE7 applies quantity > quality. In Cog of Destiny (especially) and the one against Limstella you fight a tons of enemies with rather mediocre stats. Their stats aren't really scary but their large number of units make up for it. Even Florina has trouble to solo all the shamans and druids.

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Limstella's map also has quite a number of reasonably powerful ranged attacks (Purge, ballistas, Bolting depending on mode) to keep you on your toes so the quantity does have some backup which makes you be awake while you play it. Cog of Destiny (HHM aside) doesn't so it's really easy if you have decently powerful units.

FE7 enemies are indeed weak although they occasionally manage decent enough formations to make you think about 'em. It's certainly not one of the harder FEs, but not as easy as its low-stat enemies might imply, in my opinion; comparing the default Normal modes of each game, I would certainly consider it harder than FE8, FE9, Shadow Dragon, or Awakening. (Possibly others; I haven't played many of the more recent FEs on their "Normal" difficulty.)

2 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

If you cut off the end of Path of Radiance such that it would be as long as the GBA titles, the campaign would end, funnily enough, in the battle against Ena in Nevassa. Putting it in this perspective also puts Ike's promotion in a similar late position as Eliwood and the Sivardsons.

Path of Radiance's chapters are quite a bit smaller than the later chapters of the GBA games on average so this isn't really true. I don't find Ike's promotion particularly comparable to Eliwood's (or Hector's on his route) because Ike promotes shortly after the average member of the team (in my experience) while the main FE7 lord promotes way later.

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The fact ennemies have 0 luck also plays a small role in making them weak (slightly less avoid and Crit Evade.)

This isn't even uncommon.
Enemies in Echoes don't have luck either.

In FE9 the enemies are even worse since weapon weight is a thing. Lots of mages and shitty soldiers have less speed and evasion due to speed penalty due to their low strength. And hammer weighs 20 and you face actually rarely warriors with +20 strength.
The prepromotes in FE9 are even the worst in the entire series if I may exclude FE8's ones in easy + normal.

Edited by アリサ ラインフォルト
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At the beginning, outside of Marcus's dominance, the enemies aren't too weak. I think a chapter by chapter breakdown would best explain things, as the game doesn't just outright abandon difficulty at any point, it varies. Though I'd say that in general, around New Resolve is when enemies start stagnating into oblivion- with the absolute worst of it being Sands of Time.

And I can't help but think that a 5-Star Ranked Run needs those weak enemies to make fulfilling EXP requirements possible, though still a challenge.

12 minutes ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

This isn't even uncommon.
Enemies in Echoes don't have luck either.

That was for the norm in games pre-FE5, but both it and FE6 normalized Luck as an enemy stat that all units have. FE7 consciously chose to abandon Luck for it's non-boss baddies- which only serves to make them more inaccurate, less dodgy, and squishier- a slight easing of enemy strength vis a vis FE6. FE8 by comparison restored Luck to human enemies, but left it at 0 for monsters. Every non-remake game since has given Luck to all foes.

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That was for the norm in games pre-FE5, but both it and FE6 normalized Luck as an enemy stat that all units have. FE7 consciously chose to abandon Luck for it's non-boss baddies- which only serves to make them more inaccurate, less dodgy, and squishier- a slight easing of enemy strength vis a vis FE6. FE8 by comparison restored Luck to human enemies, but left it at 0 for monsters. Every non-remake game since has given Luck to all foes.

Except Entombed for some reasons, who are particularily lucky...

58 minutes ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

It automatically brings me the question why the enemies have no luck?
 

Because they are Morphs. 
Maybe having no souls means you have no luck as well, or something ? I'll leave the theorycrafting to whoever wants to.

I think non Morph ennemies actually have some kind of Luck stat, but it's been a while, so I can't be sure.
Anyway all end game ennemies are morphs, so their Luck stat is inexistant

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1 hour ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

It automatically brings me the question why the enemies have no luck?

If you're a red unit in a Fire Emblem game, there is a 95% chance you will be killed in battle.  I would say that's pretty unlucky!

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1 hour ago, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

Didn't even know that enemy luck didn't exist in the early games.
In FE10 the bosses have lower luck than the generics for some reason.

It automatically brings me the question why the enemies have no luck?
 

Because Luck is the Black and White Morality stat in the early games.

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While this is true, you have to remember that units in FE7 have very low DEF growths. Like, Sain himself who is considered quite the durable unit has a 20% def growth. This way, even weak unpromoted units can hurt you when they have steel or silver weapons. I can't talk about the normal modes, since I don't really play that, but HHM is definitely harder than the hardest modes of some other games with stronger enemies.

Also, while there are a lot of weak enemies indeed, at least on HHM, there are also a bunch of strong ones. The Valkyries of Cog of Destiny have better stats than most of your units, and you better not trigger the reinforcement that spawn more of them if you don't want to have a bad time in that chapter.

Edited by Nobody
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The real truth about how easy FE7 is: we play these games a lot, we know them well, and eventually anything will feel easy with enough skill.

It has ways to cheese it, naturally, but it's really not an easy game.

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On 6/9/2017 at 6:55 PM, アリサ ラインフォルト said:

Didn't even know that enemy luck didn't exist in the early games.
In FE10 the bosses have lower luck than the generics for some reason.

It automatically brings me the question why the enemies have no luck?
 

I would say anything that have to face angry Hector is out of luck.

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