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How I feel every non-Akaneia/Ylisse/Fatestopia Lord's chances are (And feel free to voice your opinion)


Jave
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So we have confirmation of several things from the info reveal. That the playable cast will be "mostly" characters from FE1/3/11/12/13/14 and that they're aiming for weapon variety given the weapon triangle is in the game. So what does this mean for the characters that come from the other universes, namely Valentia, Jugdral, Elibe, Magvel and Tellius? I don't doubt we'll see a few of them, but how many, and who will be in? Well, here's my analysis of each of the Lords:

Alm: He's another sword user, but I do think he has a decent chance of being in due to his recent appearance in SoV and Valentia being connected to Akaneia, so I can see him being put in the game given he's fresh in people's minds.

Celica: Same as above, but I feel she has a slight better chance than Alm given she uses magic in addition to swords, so she has room for a more varied moveset.

That being said, I think that if we get Valentia representation, it will be Alm and Celica as part of the same DLC pack. I extremely doubt we'll get one but not the other.

Sigurd: Jugdral is kind of like the series' black sheep, being the one least acknowledged outside the series proper. It doesn't help all of its main characters have swords as the main weapon. Sigurd holds the honor of being the only Lord in the series that starts mounted, but other than that, I can't think of much reason that he might make it in. He wasn't even DLC in Awakening.

Seliph: Another sword user, and not much different from his dad outside of not getting a mount until promotion. I think he and Sigurd have the least odds of being in among the lords, since they have pretty the least going for them. Sword users, not too popular, and still Japan-only.

Leif: After what I wrote for the guys above, you might be wondering why I even bother with Leif. Well, they could give him the Light Sword for a magic sword based moveset, or better, make him a Master Knight and have him wield every weapon. That would certainly be cool to have.

Roy: Another sword user, but he does have his Smash popularity, and I think they can give him a very unique moveset given his Binding Blade. I'll say he has a very good shot.

Lyn: She's incredibly popular AND she's the original Lord for non-Japan players, so I can see her being in solely because of that. Sure she's another sword user, but she also has bows on promotion which is unique for a Lord. I'll say she'll definitely be in, but likely as DLC.

Eliwood: Another sword user, and doesn't have much going for him outside of getting a horse on promotion. I'll say he has the least chance of the Elibe lords, mainly because he doesn't add much to the table.

Hector: Being very popular, and being the only Lord that primary uses axes, I think he has very good chances of being in. The fact that he plays more like an armored knight rather than a regular foot unit seems to also work on his favor.

Eirika: Yet another sword user. I could see her getting in because she's relatively popular, and they could give her a more unique fencing playstyle to make her stand out, but I wonder if it's enough. If she gets in, I can see it being because her brother got in (see below).

Ephraim: The only Lord in the series that's completely lance locked, so that's a huge plus for him. If we get a Magvel character, I'm definitely expecting it to be him, but like with Alm and Celica, I think Ephraim and Eirika will be released as part of the same DLC pack, but I doubt we'll get one and not the other.

Ike: Let's be honest. This guy will be in. Even if I'm no Ike fan, I can't deny his huge popularity and him being added for no other reason than that. His fighting style is also completely different compared to most other lords, so he has plenty going for him. I don't want to say he's a safe bet, but his odds are definitely among the best ones.

Micaiah: She's perhaps the most unique of all lords, being locked to Light Magic and Staffs on promotion. I'll say her odds are very good, and the absolute safest bet if we get a second Tellius character.

So, your thoughts?

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I'd say of the Lords, the only two that are likely to get in to the degree where the developers would be willing to bend their 'Too many swords' reasoning and their limit on the games they pick would be Hector and Ephraim due to them using Axes and Lances. But both are also tied to other characters heavily, so even then it's not much of a shoe-in.

Also I feel like Elincia should be up here, but it doesn't really matter because she too is a sword-junky.

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I think Alm and Celica have a great shot. Aside from being from the most recent FE, they both have their own amiibos. I think anyone that has an amiibo automatically has a decent chance, for now at least.

And by that logic, I think the Robins have a pretty solid chance of being in as well, which hurts people like Micaiah a bit, since magic is already kinda represented.

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Banking on populariy alone won't be enough this time. That's what I think so I'll disagree with most, if not all, of your list. 

@ Eliwood and Eirika: Putting best buddy Hector and tutorial lord Lyn and leaving the actual main character out? Sorry but no. Lyn also has competition in the form of Ryoma and possibly Navarre and/or Lon'qu and Durandal is basically a Buster Sword on fire.  As for Eirika, she's the lord players start out with in SS and putting just one of the Renais twins and leaving out the other one? No. I can see why they stuck with with SD, Awakening and Fates characters for the vanilla roster.

 

To me, there's no "safe bets" here. 

Edited by Lord-Zero
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3 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:

Banking on populariy alone won't be enough this time. That's what I think so I'll disagree with most, if not all, of your list. 

@ Eliwood and Eirika: Putting best buddy Hector and tutorial lord Lyn and leaving the actual main character out? Sorry but no. Lyn also has competition in the form of Ryoma and possibly Navarre and/or Lon'qu and Durandal is basically a Buster Sword on fire.  As for Eirika, she's the lord players start out with in SS and putting just one of the Renais twins and leaving out the other one? No. I can see why they stuck with with SD, Awakening and Fates characters for the vanilla roster.

 

To me, there's no "safe bets" here. 

Yet this didn't stop Lucina and Robin from being playable in Smash rather than Chrom who is the true main character of Awakening, not them. Everybody expected Chrom, while some even expected him to replace Ike (even more absurd). I didn't though. I expected Robin and MAYBE Lucina (because of popularity and because Robin would've been more unique than Chrom). I was right. Popularity has more of an effect on games like this than you think. Your views are not fact.

Koei also left out very viable characters in Hyrule Warriors. They chose freaking Agitha over someone way more fitting like Ashei for a TP rep. Agitha is a character that you can go through the WHOLE game without ever seeing. I didn't even know she existed for a long time because I never figured out who to give the golden bugs to until way later. Ashei is a required meeting in the game. You always meet her. So there are also cases of less important characters getting in over more important ones.

Edited by Anacybele
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3 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:

Banking on populariy alone won't be enough this time. That's what I think so I'll disagree with most, if not all, of your list. 

@ Eliwood and Eirika: Putting best buddy Hector and tutorial lord Lyn and leaving the actual main character out? Sorry but no. Lyn also has competition in the form of Ryoma and possibly Navarre and/or Lon'qu and Durandal is basically a Buster Sword on fire.  As for Eirika, she's the lord players start out with in SS and putting just one of the Renais twins and leaving out the other one? No. I can see why they stuck with with SD, Awakening and Fates characters for the vanilla roster.

 

To me, there's no "safe bets" here. 

Again, it can be argued that Eliwood's not actually the main protagonist in FE7. Either way, Hector and Eliwood share the "main character" role after Lyn's story.

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1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Again, it can be argued that Eliwood's not actually the main protagonist in FE7. Either way, Hector and Eliwood share the "main character" role after Lyn's story.

I have words about that, but when Eliwood's the main focus, even on Hector mode, I have a hard time believing that's the case.

Everything that happens in FE7 in Hector and Eliwood mode is because of Eliwood's agency and not Hector's. He tags along and certainly gets a lot of moments, but he is by no means the main focus.

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1 hour ago, DaloDask said:

I have words about that, but when Eliwood's the main focus, even on Hector mode, I have a hard time believing that's the case.

Everything that happens in FE7 in Hector and Eliwood mode is because of Eliwood's agency and not Hector's. He tags along and certainly gets a lot of moments, but he is by no means the main focus.

In Hector mode, past the Elbert story, which is done with about 1/3 of the way through, Eliwood's agency lowers significantly, as Hector's the one initiating the conflicts with the bad guys. The last chapter starts with him going "Alright guys, this is my fight", and Eliwood going "Don't forget that I'm here with you, too!", and basically taking all of Eliwood's lines that indicate that he's the protagonist. Eliwood is not the main focus in Hector mode past the first trip to the Dread Isle.

In addition to this, Hector's the one who uncovers Nergal's story and learns about the Morphs. Nergal doesn't get a complete arc without Hector.

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9 hours ago, Lord-Zero said:

Banking on populariy alone won't be enough this time.

Uh, what? Popularity is basically the deciding factor. These games are practically fanservice, after all. Characters like Linkle and Skull Kid only got into Hyrule Warriors at all because of popularity.

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8 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yet this didn't stop Lucina and Robin from being playable in Smash rather than Chrom who is the true main character of Awakening, not them. Everybody expected Chrom, while some even expected him to replace Ike (even more absurd). I didn't though. I expected Robin and MAYBE Lucina (because of popularity and because Robin would've been more unique than Chrom). I was right. Popularity has more of an effect on games like this than you think. Your views are not fact.

Koei also left out very viable characters in Hyrule Warriors. They chose freaking Agitha over someone way more fitting like Ashei for a TP rep. Agitha is a character that you can go through the WHOLE game without ever seeing. I didn't even know she existed for a long time because I never figured out who to give the golden bugs to until way later. Ashei is a required meeting in the game. You always meet her. So there are also cases of less important characters getting in over more important ones.

I will note that all of them were pretty popular, but Robin got in because his moveset potential allowed him to stand out (like you said) while Lucina could be turned into an alt. costume (and, as it turns out, a moveset clone) for Marth himself. Once Chrom didn't make the cut, Robin was essentially the only new FE Rep considered for the game until Sakurai decided to implement some differences into then-alt Lucina and the rest was history.

With the stuff said, I imagine the less important characters from SD, Awakening, and Fates will have bigger chances than the most important characters from other games to be in at base. DLC could introduce some of the important characters from other games (hoping for Hector and Ephraim over everyone else).

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@Anacybele: Lucina's case was pretty interesting. Sakurai himself stated that she's actually quite lucky to be in Smash. I was expecting Chrom or Tharja myself but I'm fine with Robin's inclusion. As for Ike during the early Smash 4 speculation days, yes, I was doubting he was going to make it too. PoR/RD were no longer relevant and Awakening was the cool new thing. I never claimed that my views were "facts" of any sort. I'll keep disagreeing with you on the popularity thing, though. Koei does love obscure characters quite a bit. They also "left out" Groose and Vaati. In Agitha's case, the team just happened to like her a lot and she became a playable character. 

 

@Florete:  Not in HW's vanilla roster, at least. Popularity alone isn't the only deciding factor, there's also the "fun" factor especially with their choices of joke and obscure characters. SD, Awakening and Fates all offer some really interesting characters for that factor like Wrys, Arthur, Odin and Kellam. Linkle's popularity died as fast as it rose and Skull Kid had to wait for DLC to be a thing and even with that, their roles in Linkle's sub-par story weren't really that great.

 

@Slumber: Well, Hector Mode is basically Eliwood Mode but from Hector's point of view along with some extra chapters, units and him doing protagonist lines to highlight that he's the focus this time but it still starts with Eliwood as the focus until after their first trip to Valor. I'll agree that they share the "main character" status, though. 

Edited by Lord-Zero
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3 hours ago, Folt said:

With the stuff said, I imagine the less important characters from SD, Awakening, and Fates will have bigger chances than the most important characters from other games to be in at base. DLC could introduce some of the important characters from other games (hoping for Hector and Ephraim over everyone else).

True, I'm not arguing that people like Ike and Lyn can't be DLC, of course. Though I still hope Ike is in the base game for now.

35 minutes ago, Lord-Zero said:

@Anacybele: Lucina's case was pretty interesting. Sakurai himself stated that she's actually quite lucky to be in Smash. I was expecting Chrom or Tharja myself but I'm fine with Robin's inclusion. As for Ike during the early Smash 4 speculation days, yes, I was doubting he was going to make it too. PoR/RD were no longer relevant and Awakening was the cool new thing. I never claimed that my views were "facts" of any sort. I'll keep disagreeing with you on the popularity thing, though. Koei does love obscure characters quite a bit. They also "left out" Groose and Vaati. In Agitha's case, the team just happened to like her a lot and she became a playable character.

I have no idea why Groose was left out of Hyrule Warriors, but Vaati and any other Four Sword Zelda content were probably left out due to copyright issues. Capcom officially owns the rights to those. There are no copyright problems with any of the potential FE characters.

Tharja will never be in Smash, lol. Not if her removed trophy is any indication.

Edited by Anacybele
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4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I have no idea why Groose was left out of Hyrule Warriors, but Vaati and any other Four Sword Zelda content were probably left out due to copyright issues. Capcom officially owns the rights to those. There are no copyright problems with any of the potential FE characters.

I think Nintendo actually does own the copyright to the Four Sword Zelda stuff, and I do think they talked about wanting to add in Vaati at some point. (Plus, Nintendo said that they wanted to include the Minish in Breath of the Wild, but couldn't make it work.)

Still, if I remember correctly, there was some bad blood between Capcom and TK.

Edited by Folt
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34 minutes ago, Folt said:

I think Nintendo actually does own the copyright to the Four Sword Zelda stuff, and I do think they talked about wanting to add in Vaati at some point. (Plus, Nintendo said that they wanted to include the Minish in Breath of the Wild, but couldn't make it work.)

Still, if I remember correctly, there was some bad blood between Capcom and TK.

Capcom made the Four Sword Zelda games though, so their content and characters belong to them. But bad blood between them and Koei could definitely be a reason for Vaati's exclusion too.

If the Minish were supposed to be in BotW but couldn't get in, that stinks. I loved those cute little guys. :(

But getting back on topic, I'm just gonna cross my fingers that Ike gets in FE Warriors at all.

Edited by Anacybele
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I'm pretty sure Capcom owns no rights or characters regarding the Zelda series. Four Swords Adventures has Vaati and there's no credit to Capcom in that game, which was developed entirely in-house at Nintendo. 

There's also an Ezlo sticker in Brawl, wih no credit to Capcom. 

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@Anacybele: The same could be said about the likes of Nabooru and ESPECIALLY Saria. Lana's Deku Spear weapon came in and the fanbase was crying about Saria nonstop. Same with Groose and people expecting him in any of the DLC packs even if they weren't related to Skyward Sword at all. If anything, the team is aware that there's demand for Groose and Vaati so there's hole for them in a sequel. 

As for Tharja, well, I knew it was a long shot but I still wanted her. Too bad her trophy was removed. She's too much for our pure, western eyes, it seems. 

Tomorrow can't come soon enough.

 

Edited by Lord-Zero
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1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

True, I'm not arguing that people like Ike and Lyn can't be DLC, of course. Though I still hope Ike is in the base game for now.

I have no idea why Groose was left out of Hyrule Warriors, but Vaati and any other Four Sword Zelda content were probably left out due to copyright issues. Capcom officially owns the rights to those. There are no copyright problems with any of the potential FE characters.

Tharja will never be in Smash, lol. Not if her removed trophy is any indication.

Hyrule Warriors couldn't handle the pompadour paragon, simple as that. Tharja could still be included if they gave her more of a focus on fighting rather than being sex appeal (If I recall, the trophy that was axed was based off a prolific statue that was made of Tharja that's gotten quite the reputation, as it were).

On topic; I think that unless a character is directly fighting another for space ala Lyn/Alm (lords with bows) and has no unique space, they should still be viable. Even if you factor in spellsword users since Robin is practically a lock, but would be focused on thunder magic, vs Celica with Fire, if Ragnarok is any testament. While I think it's fair to suggest that we'd not get one without the other, I still would place a greater chance on seeing Celica over Alm, and maybe having one of the Echoes-exclusive characters added in (most likely Berkut if were being honest). I disagree that Eliwood 'doesn't add to the table'; being a mounted unit is already a unique position to stand on (and since were all in silent accord that Seliph/Sigurd have less than an ideal's chance) as well as being the face of the first U.S. released game (AND being directly tied to another notably popular character, meaning the interactions between them would practically write themselves). Ephraim I would place over Eirika if it came down to a choice due to being a lance user, but giving Eirika a fencer's moveset would also work pretty well (it was a decent enough weapon for Zelda in Hyrule Warriors even without the magic boosts).

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3 minutes ago, DIO said:

On topic; I think that unless a character is directly fighting another for space ala Lyn/Alm (lords with bows) and has no unique space, they should still be viable. Even if you factor in spellsword users since Robin is practically a lock, but would be focused on thunder magic, vs Celica with Fire, if Ragnarok is any testament. While I think it's fair to suggest that we'd not get one without the other, I still would place a greater chance on seeing Celica over Alm, and maybe having one of the Echoes-exclusive characters added in (most likely Berkut if were being honest). I disagree that Eliwood 'doesn't add to the table'; being a mounted unit is already a unique position to stand on (and since were all in silent accord that Seliph/Sigurd have less than an ideal's chance) as well as being the face of the first U.S. released game (AND being directly tied to another notably popular character, meaning the interactions between them would practically write themselves). Ephraim I would place over Eirika if it came down to a choice due to being a lance user, but giving Eirika a fencer's moveset would also work pretty well (it was a decent enough weapon for Zelda in Hyrule Warriors even without the magic boosts).

The problem with people like Eliwood though, is that he still uses a sword and isn't that popular. We not only have to consider what could be brought to the game, but also the weapon wielded because of the weapon triangle. If there are a lot of swords, but not many lances or axes , they'd have a big advantage while leaving axes at a big disadvantage and lances as maybe OP.

This is why I do understand the limitation, but only to a degree.

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Popularity aside, Eliwood and Sigurd both have better chances than most the other sword infantry lords due to their mounts. Both can also wield lances and, if they want to reference FE6/FE7 Paladins, Eliwood could use an axe while on a horse as well so he can actually be quite versatile. Durandal is also a massive sword which could make him Guts on a horse with a blazing Dragonslayer. Their main competition here would be Xander who's far more popular and recent. 

Depending on how big the vanilla roster could be, I think we are done with sword users and any newcomer would be bringing other weapon types while the OCs could branch out to other weapons to help balance things out. 

Edited by Lord-Zero
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47 minutes ago, DIO said:

Hyrule Warriors couldn't handle the pompadour paragon, simple as that. Tharja could still be included if they gave her more of a focus on fighting rather than being sex appeal (If I recall, the trophy that was axed was based off a prolific statue that was made of Tharja that's gotten quite the reputation, as it were).

Tharja's trophy was based on her official artwork, not her statue. Her outfit was simply too sexy for the rating they were shooting for.

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2 hours ago, Dandee Leone said:

Why in gods' name would they add terrible characters like Ike next to the riveting Corrin?

Because your opinion (which isn't fact, btw) isn't the only one that matters and Ike has loads and loads of fans that love him?

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