Harvey Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 So if you have noticed, I played the first FE game on the nes and compared to the older games, a lot of these elements have been nerfed down for better or worse. So let's start off with the obvious one, the warp staff. In FE1, the warp staves come in plenty and three are good enough to nearly break the rest of the game. The real thing about it here is unlike the older games, the staves here can teleport you to anywhere you want to go so this means that in the end game, you can pretty much just teleport Marth to the throne rooms and finish off the chapters quick. Then there's the promotions. Peagus Knights can promote into dragon fliers here which is arguably one of the best classes but in the older games, both now are in different classes which is kinda sad cause imo. Third is the amount of gold the game gives you to the point that getting it is a joke. Though honestly, I'm happy that gold is part of tactical limits unlike the first one. And then there's the obvious, no weapon triangle here. I didn't mind it personally considering that I don't make much benefit that much of that extra depth of strategy..that and axes still have a fairly low hit rate here. So with that out of the way, are you kinda fine with the elements being nerfed or changed from the first game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameAtAll Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Yes, I am fine with it. Because FE1 is FLAWED AS FUCK. Falconknights and Wyvern Lords being separate sets is perfect because again...what happened to the pegasus? Gold is meh. Weapon triangle is a good thing. So yeah, FE1's elements are interesting but archaic. Best to leave them in the dust bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Well yeah, to say there shouldn't be changes from FE1 would be like saying cars should've stopped improving after the Model T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinks Their Own Way Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Shit changes over time, that's to be expected. Especially compared to the very first game were it's new and the people who are working on it are still getting use to what it takes to make a video game. So by now, they have a clear understanding of what they are doing and stuff like healers not gaining experience when healing will not fly in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrick36 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Well, if we're gonna be comparing to the NES days... Then I'll say just about everything balancing wise is better now than it was back then. You can tell in Gaiden that it was a very experimental phase. They simply didn't really know too much about making video games, at least in the ways we currently know how games are supposed to be made to be challenging and fair. I mean, most frontline infantry units back then had a move rate of seven at base, while archers and priests shared the same move rate of five as armors. Caeda could immediately use the silver lance, even though she's supposed to be a weak but quick butterfly. Draug, who's supposed to be a sturdy but slow unit, might end up with more speed than defense (which speaks more to his poor defense growths than anything), a fact which he's fairly notorious for. And healers couldn't level up from healing, meaning they had to actually get attacked in order to level. There's nothing gameplay-wise from the NES days that I really want them to bring back for any future FE's except maybe some of Gaiden's better elements, which were improved upon beautifully in the remake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 The only thing from the NES games I'd like to see more is Gaiden's magic system. Other than that, there's nothing notable that I'd like to see ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flee Fleet! Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Harvey said: So let's start off with the obvious one, the warp staff. In FE1, the warp staves come in plenty and three are good enough to nearly break the rest of the game. The real thing about it here is unlike the older games, the staves here can teleport you to anywhere you want to go so this means that in the end game, you can pretty much just teleport Marth to the throne rooms and finish off the chapters quick. Then there's the promotions. Peagus Knights can promote into dragon fliers here which is arguably one of the best classes but in the older games, both now are in different classes which is kinda sad cause imo. These two points are pretty much the same in FE3, along with weapon triangle not existing, although I think there's only one Warp Staff in Book 1, which Lena has, and none in Book 2 because Spoiler Lena joins in the final chapter I think it was a good choice for Pegasus knights to promote to a different class, and Wyvern riders actually having a promotion. Because I don't think a pegasus turning into a wyvern makes much sense. I never really cared much about the weapon triangle as the only time I actually took notice of it was in FE6 and Lyn mode of FE7. So yeah, I'm fine with Fire Emblem improving itself and being better than the first game. Although Gaiden's mechanics like the magic system I thought were nice, so I wouldn't mind them coming back in another FE game. Edited June 12, 2017 by Flee Fleet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 30 minutes ago, Glaceon Sage said: The only thing from the NES games I'd like to see more is Gaiden's magic system. Other than that, there's nothing notable that I'd like to see ever again. I think you've forgotten something we'd all like to see again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 fe1 is bad and we don't need anything from it now fe2 on the other hand has archers that don't suck, it'd be cool if that came back 7 minutes ago, Thane said: I think you've forgotten something we'd all like to see again. why is it that I knew exactly what this would be before i even clicked it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 12 minutes ago, Thane said: I think you've forgotten something we'd all like to see again. I forgot about the whole "Is Marth wearing a skirt?" deal. I remember people talking about that when I first started talking about FE online 11 years ago. I guess Shadow Dragon kinda squashed that meme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Thane said: I think you've forgotten something we'd all like to see again. Ah right, pantsless Marth, that'd be a neat event for Heroes but I don't think we need any more FE1 remakes for a while. Edited June 12, 2017 by Glaceon Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 24 minutes ago, Glaceon Sage said: Ah right, pantsless Marth, that'd be a neat event for Heroes but I don't think we need any more FE1 remakes for a while. It'll probably be an alt costume for him in Warriors. If I know Koei-Tecmo as well as I think I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrick36 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Thane said: I think you've forgotten something we'd all like to see again. So you referring to Marth, the artstyle, or the amazing fashion? Spoiler Yeah, I know you're talking about his lack of pants. Also, nice sig. 1 hour ago, Jedi said: It'll probably be an alt costume for him in Warriors. If I know Koei-Tecmo as well as I think I do. Oh man, now I'm all hyped up for no-pants Marth in FE Warriors. Then we can get no-pants Chrom, no-pants Xander, no-pants Lucina, and no-pants Camil- oh, wait... 2 hours ago, Flee Fleet! said: I never really cared much about the weapon triangle as the only time I actually took notice of it was in FE6 and Lyn mode of FE7. So yeah, I'm fine with Fire Emblem improving itself and being better than the first game. Although Gaiden's mechanics like the magic system I thought were nice, so I wouldn't mind them coming back in another FE game. I think the weapon triangle has its uses at first, when hit rate differences are more exaggerated and 1-3 variances in damage are more important to take into consideration. Then its significance just pitters off about halfway into the game when most of your units are probably getting near 100% hit rates on all enemies and everyone's HP is, like, in the thirties or forties. I'll say that the terrain bonuses are better for formation-based tactical challenges, and they also can last throughout the entire campaign. I think I'd like it if they implemented both regular tome magic and HP-stealing magic in the game. I mean, perhaps tome magic would come with some caveats. Like maybe they're pricey, have limited uses, are all limited to having single spells (like a Nosferatu tome just having... uh, Nosferatu), and/or probably require a certain aptitude with magic to wield, while the other kind isn't really held back by most of those issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Jedi said: It'll probably be an alt costume for him in Warriors. If I know Koei-Tecmo as well as I think I do. Spoiler If they brought back Classic Original LoZ Pantsless Link, then Marth will totally have his harem-ready/feelin-the-breeze-lover retro option available. (As a tangental factoid, ALttP's and LA's were also pantsless, AoL had tights in most artwork, but not in the actual game, it took until OoT Adult Link for tights (but Child Link was left pantsless, despite being underage), and it wasn't until WW that Link started wearing pants.) 51 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said: Oh man, now I'm all hyped up for no-pants Marth in FE Warriors. Then we can get no-pants Chrom, no-pants Xander, no-pants Lucina, and no-pants Camil- oh, wait... Artistic Nude/Underwear Only/Swimsuit Mode selectable on a character by character basis please. Let us see how magnificently KT can model the idealized human form. 1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said: I think I'd like it if they implemented both regular tome magic and HP-stealing magic in the game. I mean, perhaps tome magic would come with some caveats. Like maybe they're pricey, have limited uses, are all limited to having single spells (like a Nosferatu tome just having... uh, Nosferatu), and/or probably require a certain aptitude with magic to wield, while the other kind isn't really held back by most of those issues. I'd prefer tomes as the norm (though rare tomes can exist too), with HP magic being something more personal. I'd also like Combat Arts, Command Cooldown Skills, and Proc Skills too. The more variety the merrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flee Fleet! Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Glaceon Sage said: pantsless Marth That's actually one of the reasons, along with Marth's sort of girlish looking face in FE3, that made me think he was a female. 1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said: I think the weapon triangle has its uses at first, when hit rate differences are more exaggerated and 1-3 variances in damage are more important to take into consideration. Then its significance just pitters off about halfway into the game when most of your units are probably getting near 100% hit rates on all enemies and everyone's HP is, like, in the thirties or forties. I'll say that the terrain bonuses are better for formation-based tactical challenges, and they also can last throughout the entire campaign. I think I'd like it if they implemented both regular tome magic and HP-stealing magic in the game. I mean, perhaps tome magic would come with some caveats. Like maybe they're pricey, have limited uses, are all limited to having single spells (like a Nosferatu tome just having... uh, Nosferatu), and/or probably require a certain aptitude with magic to wield, while the other kind isn't really held back by most of those issues. Yeah, that is pretty much what the weapon triangle is for me. If they implemented both types of magic, then it might work this way: each character that can use magic has a set of spells, with maybe one or two being unique to them, and casting one of these spells means sacrificing some HP. However, tomes of different spells exists, that allow any magic user to cast a spell without having to sacrifice HP. They can also use tomes of spells that are not included in their spell set. However, these tomes have limited uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Yeah, I generally prefer they tone down overpowered elements so that I can play the game in ways other than the clearly superior answer. And really we're still getting some un-intuitive best strategies in our games. PoR: Cant-o touch this! Radiant Dawn: That game where character availability is 90% of the focus on viability discussion. Awakening: From the beginning, Chrom dual attacks more often, and Robin gets more experience when paired up. Hmmmmmmmmm Conquest: Effie and Dragon Corrin bait the next three enemies, everybody else mops them up safely. It's not like we're incentivized to play quickly~ Echoes: What's your favorite spell and why is it Invoke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Ok so are you guys fine with the Warp staff being toned down here as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Harvey said: Ok so are you guys fine with the Warp staff being toned down here as well? Wherever Warp has infinite range, and particularly where it comes early and Seize is the primary objective like in FE1, it is bound to be broken. And while I haven't played FE1, if Shadow Dragon is anything to go by, there are 3 of them for 21 uses total. And if Hammerne works on it as well- then you definitely have far too much Warp. Other games keep Warp powerful and very useful (outside of FE7, where there is almost no good use for it whatsoever), but it has been it down significantly and for the better. And outside of FE2/SoV, I doubt many players actually use Warp due to item hoarding habits/playing the game at a slower pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenzify Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Maybe I have no place here, seeing as I never played some of the earlier Fire Emblems, but I can say for sure, that for any game franchise that has had as many games over the years as Fire Emblem, it would only be a bad thing if they made no mechanical changes since the first game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I'm absolutely okay with nerfing the warp staff - when seize is the majn objective and the range is unlimited, it's bound to be broken (this is still the case in Shadow Dragon). I'm also bothered by the fact that pegasi promoted to wyverns in Marth's games (whilst the remakes added the Elysian Whip, the aforementioned Shadow Dragon locked the Elysian Whip to a feature that got discontinued). Also, standards are higher these days, so there's no way in the seven hells that some of the stuff that was the case in FE1 would be acceptable nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerandel Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I was never a fan of pegasus riders promoting into wyvern knights because of its awkwardness. I'm glad that eventually we saw wyvern riders become their own class and they're no longer a gender-exclusive class, unlike pegasus riders were prior to Fates. There are many mechanics from the original Fire Emblem that'd be inconvenient now, such as the reforging of the Falchion that you'd likely miss without a guid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'm actually kind of surprised the kept the Pegasus to Wyvern promotion in Shadow Dragon. Personally I would have made Falcon Knight the default and make a new tier 1 class for Wyvern riders. That would have made Minerva a bit more useful since her bases aren't really up to snuff with a prepromote. I also find it really strange when the game wants to throw both pegasus knights and wyvern knights are you but they have to adjust their stats wildly to be balanced against the player even though it's a tier 1 or tier 2 class. It's like everything in the design of the game is suggesting they should be different classes yet they made them the same regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jotari said: Personally I would have made Falcon Knight the default and make a new tier 1 class for Wyvern riders. That would have made Minerva a bit more useful since her bases aren't really up to snuff with a prepromote. As if Midia or Arran or Boah or Lorenz has bases worthy of being a prepromote? IS was just being a little too traditional here and didn't buff stats on characters who needed them given all the changes the rest of the gameplay had undergone. Minerva, Midia and Boah et al. were usable in FE1, but that's a whole 'nother game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: As if Midia or Arran or Boah or Lorenz has bases worthy of being a prepromote? IS was just being a little too traditional here and didn't buff stats on characters who needed them given all the changes the rest of the gameplay had undergone. Minerva, Midia and Boah et al. were usable in FE1, but that's a whole 'nother game. Midia is actually amazing in FE3.2. Had she joined earlier she would probably be better than Sirius overall While Boah and Minerva is straight up batshit broken in their entirety of NES appearance. They are not as batshit as Wendell(who was so broken he got nerfed in every single appearance) but they are pretty good That said only thing i'm fond of about FE1 is how hilariously broken Marth used to be Edited July 12, 2017 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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