Which Robin? (Poll Closed)

[Arthur97]

7 minutes ago, Folt said:

I think it's more that Male Robin is a generally much calmer person. Female Robin tends to be somewhat passive-aggressive in her unique supports. That said, I think it makes it easier for Male Robin to contrast whoever he is supporting (f.ex. Chrom since he's rather hotheaded despite his somewhat "straight man" tendencies, Lucina since she's so bloody serious, his own daughter due to her being very... up in the clouds), and I have a generally easier time picturing the male Robin as a master tactician compared to the female one precisely because of his calmer nature.

And of course, I prefer him as a male since out of the three protagonists of Awakening, he's the only one who leans towards magic. And, subsequently, I like the idea of him and Lucina as a male and female sword-and-sorcerer pair where the girl is the fighter of the two since that's kind of uncommon in works of fiction.

Female Robin does seem more rash (look to her Lon'qu supports for evidence). But, yes, I tend to see Male Robin as much more reserved and introverted which fits the role of a tactician better. I just imagine that Female Robin would be much more aggressive in combat too which is something they could potentially work with.

[Folt]

7 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Female Robin does seem more rash (look to her Lon'qu supports for evidence). But, yes, I tend to see Male Robin as much more reserved and introverted which fits the role of a tactician better. I just imagine that Female Robin would be much more aggressive in combat too which is something they could potentially work with.

I'll admit; the potential is there.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Folt

[Dragonage2ftw]

Male, so that I can make Robin's waifu Corrin.

 

It's a real shame that we didn't end up getting male Corrin, though.

[Zangetsu]

10 hours ago, Folt said:

Honestly, they're rather different from each other character-wise, but gameplay-wise they're extremely similiar. But here, I'd say it's the difference in character portrayal that'd make it hard for them to be costumes of one another because Supports is going to be in the game in a fashion, and the Robins (and honestly the Corrins too) behave extremely different in Supports.

Maybe it's unfair to compare this game to Smash Bros but if Smash can do it then why not Warrior's? The 2 Corrins & Robins had their own victory quotes & taunts so there's no real reason to believe the same thing can't happen here. Admittedly  some would think it be hassle to come up with some dialogues for the opposite genders but honestly that just mean there would be more replay value. Assuming it won't get tedious when it comes to grinding aspect like it did in Hyrule Warriors.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Zangetsu

[Folt]

Just now, Zangetsu said:

Maybe it's unfair to compare this game to Smash Bros but if Smash can do it then why not Warrior's? The 2 Corrins & Robins had their own victory quotes & taunts so there's real reason to believe the same thing can't happen here. Admittedly  some would think it be hassle to come up with some dialogues for the opposite genders but honestly that just mean there would be more replay value. Assuming it won't get tedious when it comes to grinding aspect like it did in Hyrule Warriors.

The victory and taunt animations were largely the same though. This game is a bit more cutscene-heavy. Add the fact that Supports is actually a thing and I very much doubt alternate costumes is going to solve this.

[The DanMan]

Hoping for male, to counterbalance F!Corrin.

[Zangetsu]

34 minutes ago, Folt said:

The victory and taunt animations were largely the same though. This game is a bit more cutscene-heavy. Add the fact that Supports is actually a thing and I very much doubt alternate costumes is going to solve this.

 

But we're talking about amount of time to make them differentiate the 2 characters in terms of gameplay. I don't see why the alternate costumes can't have their own support & cutscenes to begin with.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Zangetsu

[Arthur97]

59 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

 

But we're talking about amount of time to make them differentiate the 2 characters in terms of gameplay. I don't see why the alternate costumes can't have their own support & cutscenes to begin with.

At that point they have to program different counters for each alt that does this. They still can't be interchangeable in story mode either unless you meant having the alt there in addition to the standard. Really, if you're giving them different supports and cutscenes, you might as well at least make them clone characters and separate their levels too.

[Deva Ashera]

It's a simple fix. In the support conversations and cutscenes they could use the default character model/costume if a particular costume is 'flagged' in the code as incompatible with the scene/support. It's really not that hard to do, honestly.

Also, supports will likely be done Fire Emblem style with mostly still shots of the characters and a dialogue box (fully voiced or not) and the alt likely won't be shown in those scenes even if it's something that still works (such as Great Lord Chrom or Nohr Noble Corrin).

All in all the costume won't likely affect much of anything, similarly to how such costumes didn't affect Hyrule Warriors (such as the Dark Link costume). If they actually let such a mundane obstacle keep alt gender costumes out even when it's something easily fixed, like stated above, then that's just disapointing.

Additionally, if it IS somehow a big issue in story, then they could make it so gender/character alts only work in Coliseum Mode.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Deva Ashera

[Zangetsu]

^

That's pretty much what I mean & I have to disagree with being clone characters. That just means there would more grinding to do, not to mention they how incredibly unpopular clones are in general.

[Arthur97]

12 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

^

That's pretty much what I mean & I have to disagree with being clone characters. That just means there would more grinding to do, not to mention they how incredibly unpopular clones are in general.

Well, ideally I think they could be separate and unique, but that seems unlikely. As it's been stated, they are different enough in personality that swapping them out for all scenes wouldn't really work, and swapping them out for cutscenes and gameplay just doesn't mesh. It worked fine with costumes since they were just that: costumes. This is something a bit different as they are not the same person and it causes continuity issues when swapping them out, and despite what some may say, the story is still important enough that it should affect decision making.

[Zangetsu]

^

Yes, but they are those who would argue that they should have just been costume to begin with. I hate to use this example but think about Link & Dark Link. Yes they are 2 different characters with one having ability to focus on his swordsmanship while the other could focus on his arsenal, but in the end it was decided the best decision is that they could do is just make them one & same character as a slot by having Dark Link as a costume.

[Deva Ashera]

Male & Female Robin aren't really THAT different..they only show any real differences in their support conversations, not really the story of Awakening.

As has been said though, the story and supports do not matter in this as the simple work around, if there is an issue, is to simply default all story & support related elements to use the default Robin model, this works regardless of which gender is chosen as default and allows both forms to be playable for the majority of the game, which will undoubtedly be Coliseum Mode, not story mode/supports, which is honestly only a very tiny part of what the game will be, especially once the possibility of DLC is brought up. This would also allow Tecmo Koei to use either gender Robin or Corrin as foes for Coliseum Mode missions for a bit more variety.

Beyond that, it also wouldn't be that jarring during story missions since the default Robin's/Corrin's picture would show for talking parts of story missions..and most players are smart enough to know that the default one is x gender.

[Arthur97]

44 minutes ago, Deva Ashera said:

Male & Female Robin aren't really THAT different..they only show any real differences in their support conversations, not really the story of Awakening.

As has been said though, the story and supports do not matter in this as the simple work around, if there is an issue, is to simply default all story & support related elements to use the default Robin model, this works regardless of which gender is chosen as default and allows both forms to be playable for the majority of the game, which will undoubtedly be Coliseum Mode, not story mode/supports, which is honestly only a very tiny part of what the game will be, especially once the possibility of DLC is brought up. This would also allow Tecmo Koei to use either gender Robin or Corrin as foes for Coliseum Mode missions for a bit more variety.

Beyond that, it also wouldn't be that jarring during story missions since the default Robin's/Corrin's picture would show for talking parts of story missions..and most players are smart enough to know that the default one is x gender.

Ah, but they are different.

Also, it's just weird and inconsistent to have mismatching characters. I know you seem to disregard story mode, but it needs to have cohesion. Actually, having the wrong portrait would be even worse.

I'm not against female Robin's inclusion, but I just think that it should not be via alternate characters since it messes with the story and I just don't like the idea of them swapping out (unless they actually add a DKC style animation for when they do it). It makes no sense from a narrative point, and if they do go that route, then they need to be locked to default and costumes only during story mode.

[Folt]

9 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

 

But we're talking about amount of time to make them differentiate the 2 characters in terms of gameplay. I don't see why the alternate costumes can't have their own support & cutscenes to begin with.

And that is not the problem. If they could, they could differentiate the two enough to make them earn separate roster spots. The problem is that they need to be differentiated through Supports. Smash did it since they could let aspects of the Robins's personalities through the victory scenes. Here, there's going to be more in-depth cutscenes and we're going to see Supports. Having them as alts isn't really gonna work unless you go the SW Chronicles route and have them as silent protagonists. And those games still separated the two genders.

[Zangetsu]

I'm getting really confuse on why you guys think they can't just have both Robins in a cutscene & still interact with each other here.

[Folt]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

I'm getting really confuse on why you guys think they can't just have both Robins in a cutscene & still interact with each other here.

They'd have to be separate characters, not alts if you want to see them both in the same cutscene. And that has everything to do with what qualifies as an "alternate costume".

And since they appear to have gone with having Corrin, Ryoma, and Xander come from the same world/timeline, it's probably gonna be the case with the rest.

[Zangetsu]

^

Hmmmm we shall see

[Deva Ashera]

17 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Ah, but they are different.

Also, it's just weird and inconsistent to have mismatching characters. I know you seem to disregard story mode, but it needs to have cohesion. Actually, having the wrong portrait would be even worse.

I'm not against female Robin's inclusion, but I just think that it should not be via alternate characters since it messes with the story and I just don't like the idea of them swapping out (unless they actually add a DKC style animation for when they do it). It makes no sense from a narrative point, and if they do go that route, then they need to be locked to default and costumes only during story mode.

Not in regards for this.

Again, not really. It's not really any different then Link appearing as Dark Link during gameplay. The mismatched picture would only appear at the bottom of the screen and affect nothing else. The vast majority of people would have no issue with this at all, they would know it's just a costume.

There is no way they would have both Robins or Corrins as anything but alternate costumes. They are too similar in abilities to earn their own slots and having both as their own slots would likely only cause annoyance from fans. I play games for the story, but costumes tend to be absent from that. It's not like it made 'narrative sense' for Link to be dressed in his OoT, TP, SS, LoZ, Dark Link, or Fierce Diety looks or dressed as a post man or for Zelda to be dressed as Ilia in cutscenes or gameplay and yet you could do those.

Most people are smart enough not to be confused or bothered by a costume swap since they, of course, know what the default is.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Deva Ashera

[Arthur97]

17 minutes ago, Deva Ashera said:

Not in regards for this.

Again, not really. It's not really any different then Link appearing as Dark Link during gameplay. The mismatched picture would only appear at the bottom of the screen and affect nothing else. The vast majority of people would have no issue with this at all, they would know it's just a costume.

There is no way they would have both Robins or Corrins as anything but alternate costumes. They are too similar in abilities to earn their own slots and having both as their own slots would likely only cause annoyance from fans. I play games for the story, but costumes tend to be absent from that. It's not like it made 'narrative sense' for Link to be dressed in his OoT, TP, SS, LoZ, Dark Link, or Fierce Diety looks or dressed as a post man or for Zelda to be dressed as Ilia in cutscenes or gameplay and yet you could do those.

Most people are smart enough not to be confused or bothered by a costume swap since they, of course, know what the default is.

Fans are going to be annoyed either way if you haven't noticed, but their personalities are different enough, and they have enough moveset potential to have two different character slots seeing as they carry two weapons anyway. Dark Link also isn't a good example since Dark Link is hardly a person, it is a phantom image with no personality and no free will; it is hardly the same. Different costumes, while a bit odd, do not break the narritive. And, no, it's not a matter of intelligence. I am smart enough to know which is the main, but this is not a costume we're talking about. This is switching the actual people with no explanation just so there can be an alt.

Now, if they were to treat the alt as a separate character in the story where they both exist, that may be different, but given how things appear to be set up, I doubt that will happen unless they give a tale of Awakening with two tacticians.

[Deva Ashera]

I feel more fans would be disappointed by the lack of a gender alt then would be by a lack of cohesion in the story caused by playing the map using the opposite gender character since doing only that would have absolutely no effect on the story at all, it would only be like playing Free Play Mode or Co-Op in Hyrule Warriors with a character that wasn't there story-wise..which wasn't really all that concerning..more humorous then anything.

Heck, for all we know, Robin could end up like Ruto, Agitha, Zant, or Ghirahim and not be playable in the story even if they take part in it, or be like Toon Link in Hyrule Warriors Legends and not even be part of the story, making this all a moot point either way.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Deva Ashera

[Folt]

16 hours ago, Deva Ashera said:

Not in regards for this.

Again, not really. It's not really any different then Link appearing as Dark Link during gameplay. The mismatched picture would only appear at the bottom of the screen and affect nothing else. The vast majority of people would have no issue with this at all, they would know it's just a costume.

There is no way they would have both Robins or Corrins as anything but alternate costumes. They are too similar in abilities to earn their own slots and having both as their own slots would likely only cause annoyance from fans. I play games for the story, but costumes tend to be absent from that. It's not like it made 'narrative sense' for Link to be dressed in his OoT, TP, SS, LoZ, Dark Link, or Fierce Diety looks or dressed as a post man or for Zelda to be dressed as Ilia in cutscenes or gameplay and yet you could do those.

Most people are smart enough not to be confused or bothered by a costume swap since they, of course, know what the default is.

You could do those, but 1. Hyrule Warriors uses grunts. That's a considerably easier hurdle to cross if alternate costumes are in play, and as far as I know, all of the alternate costumes in Hyrule Warriors is essentially the character dressing up as another (whether it's a previous incarnation or a different character) or in a state of lacking certain pieces of headwear (when they aren't simply being palette swaps). 2. All of Link's costumes are based on his adult form, model-wise. 3. HW!Link's facial features remain on each of those costumes which is particularly jarring for the OoT, TP, and SS costumes. 4. Dark Link (as separate from Link) is treated as an entity that shares the moves of the original, but has Officer level (Lizalfos, Darknut, Hylian Captain, etc.) health to justify having more of them on the battlefield at the same time.

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, Folt said:

You could do those, but 1. Hyrule Warriors uses grunts. That's a considerably easier hurdle to cross if alternate costumes are in play, and as far as I know, all of the alternate costumes in Hyrule Warriors is essentially the character dressing up as another (whether it's a previous incarnation or a different character) or in a state of lacking certain pieces of headwear (when they aren't simply being palette swaps). 2. All of Link's costumes are based on his adult form, model-wise. 3. HW!Link's facial features remain on each of those costumes which is particularly jarring for the OoT, TP, and SS costumes. 4. Dark Link (as separate from Link) is treated as an entity that shares the moves of the original, but has Officer level (Lizalfos, Darknut, Hylian Captain, etc.) health to justify having more of them on the battlefield at the same time.

I think we're wasting our time. She seems dead set on alts whether it makes sense or not.

[Anomalocaris]

I really don't see why alts would be a problem. If the costumes alter the character's voice, gender, ect. just bar them from use in standard story mode.

[EricaofRenais]

Even though I always play as female Robin so I can marry Priam, I have always liked male Robin better in terms of character he just comes across better to me.  So I think male Robin will be in and he is the Robin I want as well.