Do you like Alm's character? (spoilers, I guess)

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, Thane said:

What?

I guess they mean that Alm doesn't have to kill Rudolf?

However, they addressed this in PoR with Shiharam. Ike says he killed Shiharam to Jill, even if you have someone else do it. Ike's use of "kill" here means he gave the orders to attack Shiharam's unit, which is what ultimately killed him. Using the same logic, Alm "killed" Rudolf by giving the orders to attack Rigel Castle.

[Seazas]

Lukas encouraged Alm to do it with good reasons to back it up. Winning over people of Rigel in Lukas' own words is a really smart move.

It's more of the fact they lowkey establish a character flaw without being in your face about it (Recklessness) 

[Book Bro]

Now that I've gotten to near endgame (yeah, I've been taking my time with this game), I'll give my thoughts on this. I tend to agree that Alm being more aggressive in Gaiden is people misremembering things. However I do think it would have made sense to make the contrast between him and Celica more pronounced in the remake to further develop what was already established in Gaiden.

I like Alm, I do. But he does suffer from 3DS syndrome in that he gets praised way too much. It's also dull to me when characters are presented as near perfect. So while I enjoy his little quirks, and he is a likeable character overall, I do wish they had let him be a bit more than Mr Nice Guy.

I like Celica much more for how her struggles play out and because I see her as a more complex character. 

[Lau]

I love both Alm and Celica, and they're joint fifth in my lost of favourite lords.

Since this is about Alm...

I would've liked to see more of a contrast between Alm and Celica, though I think he's fine just the way he is. I'm not seeing how all the guys want to be like him? Yeah we've got Tobin, but that's just his inferiority complex, which he also has with Gray. I don't remember anyone else who is like that. I do agree that Alm gets praised a lot, but when you're the supposed grandson of Mycen, you're bound to. As for Gray saying that Alm and Celica "are different in every way", I always took it as him realising that their marks meant that they were going to do something big in the future.

I guess this is what happens when you don't play the original Gaiden and stay away from it to avoid spoilers...

[Thane]

3 hours ago, Lau said:

I'm not seeing how all the guys want to be like him?

It's not something that is meant to be taken literally, at least that's not what I mean when I say that. "The ladies want him and the guys want to be him" doesn't imply that all the female characters love Alm while the guys literally want to be him; it merely underlines how Alm is praised and sought after to the point of absurdity, going so far as to practically erase any character Faye could have had and the cast goes out of its to make sure we know what a big deal Alm is.

3 hours ago, Lau said:

I don't remember anyone else who is like that. I do agree that Alm gets praised a lot, but when you're the supposed grandson of Mycen, you're bound to. 

First of all, a lot of the praise Alm gets isn't related to him supposedly being Mycen's kin; that's not why Clive calls him a teacher, that's not why Gray calls him and Celica different "in every way", and that's not why Clair says he's got a regal bearing to him - it's all strictly the narrative driving home the point that we're supposed to think Alm is the best thing since sliced bread. 

Secondly, even if the praise did come from him being related to Mycen, it wouldn't hold up anyway because practically everything we know about Mycen is directly told to us, not shown. The only times we see Mycen is when the plot requires him to show up and spout some cryptic advice, culminating in him coming across as unnecessarily cold and uncaring to Alm when the he has unknowingly killed his own father in no small part due to Mycen's manipulation. The fact that we see a lot of Mycen's negative sides and are mostly told about his greatness create two different images of him that clash, and as such it would be even harder for the players to associate any of Mycen's positive traits with Alm, save for his combat abilities which is one of the few things about him the game actually shows us.

However, to focus only on how the cast reacts to Alm is missing half the point. The arguably bigger problem is how he doesn't actually contrast Celica even though that's effectively the entire premise of the game and an overarching theme. By making him too likeable, popular and similar to Celica, one of the themes straight up doesn't work and Celica's importance in the story gets greatly reduced. The duality the game presents us doesn't work since you could argue that Alm is the "real" protagonist; he's the one who ends the war, he's the one with a connection to the primary human villain, he's the one who saves Celica and he's the one who kills Duma. In comparison, Celica's list of major plot-related accomplishments is considerably smaller. The fact that Alm doesn't need her influence as much as she needs his towards the end only further emphasizes the problem Intelligent Systems had with balancing the two.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Thane

[Seazas]

Yeah Celica's route was shafted but to say he doesn't contrast her in anyway is simply bullshit. He doesn't need to be like his awfully written inaccurate to the original Awakening version just to contrast Celica. Alm is more reckless and willing to fight than Celica. 

 

Plus this picture supports my point too.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Peaceful_User

[Augestein]

He's a nice guy. He's like pretty much every lord ever. Gets a bit too much praise at moments, and his ideals are never properly challenged. I can't hate him though, because at least he's not a complete jerk about his ideals and pushy like other lords about it. He's a bit less interesting than Celica I feel. Then again, the female lords are generally written as more "human" than their male counterparts. 

The actor chosen for him makes me a bit more partial to him because he's a fine actor. 

[vanguard333]

Overall I think I have to say no. Alm definitely had potential, and certainly some complaints about his character are more because of faults in the story itself than because of the character. But I still didn't like him. There's a fair bit about his character, which I said more eloquently in other threads, and I am tired right now, so there's no way I'm going to be able to convey everything I want to say about the Alm character, so I'll just say a few things.

Things that I did like:

1. He tries to negotiate for peace initially, only to get no reply from Rigel. This I did like.

2. Him being left-handed. It's a small thing, but I like that they did that.

3. He did have a personality; that I agree. 

4. He does have internal motivations for his goals (wanting to help people; etc.), rather than all his motivations being external in origin and him getting pulled into these circumstances. He is offered the chance to join the deliverance, but, in Gaiden at least, his decision to join is just that: his decision. I'm not a fan of how it's implied in SoV that Mycen vanished to influence Alm into joining the Deliverance. It takes away from the story, but even that is not the only place in the story where he does something based purely on internal motivation, it's just one of only a few.

Things I did not like:

1. He is named leader of the Deliverance just for being Mycen's grandson, and immediately succeeds in retaking Zofia Castle. I did not mind him being named leader at all. I completely understood that it had nothing to do with Alm; it was purely a morality boost and Clive thinking he himself was failing at leading the Deliverance. I'll also give him immediately taking Zofia Castle a pass, because that's more a story/gameplay fault. Though he was never shown prior at having any knowledge or skill when it came to storming a castle; something very difficult to actually do, because castles worked. 

2. He's supposed to contrast Celica. More than that; they're supposed to resemble Mila and Duma, but differ in that they don't let their differences tear each other apart. I never thought Alm needed to be particularly aggressive; I thought they could do some of what Awakening did with the, "How do you compassionately stab someone" while still keeping his original character. Going through the story, it was easy to see what they could easily have written as Alm's biggest flaw: he only thinks of the next battle; never the larger picture. They could have easily written that as being his flaw; going hand-in-hand with being reckless, and it would have perfectly fit into the story and have been very interesting, especially when contrasted with Celica trying to find Mila in order to end the war. Yet, instead, they portray him as having no real flaws. He does everything correctly, has no setbacks, and, at the same time, Celica is made worse because of it, and, because Celica is made worse, so is he due to the way the characters are connected.

3. Extending from 2, his lack of faults kind of make him bland. Yes, you don't need character development to be an interesting character (though it's nice when it's there, and even already good characters can always find reasons to want to improve who they are), but he just goes through the events in the story, and it can be quite bland at times. Even moral paragon characters (something he shouldn't necessarily even be anyways since the whole point was supposed to be balancing the ideals of Alm and Celica) can be flawed, but he isn't, and that's just boring. We don't see him try to cope with being in charge, as leadership just comes to him just like that. We don't see him struggle with his ideals, because they're essentially portrayed as perfect. And that's boring.

4. He breaks his own morals of the story. He is the character who keeps spouting about what's the real difference between commoners and nobility, and, while he does say he's willing to plough the earth even as Emperor, he still breaks the moral he's trying to convey. Him turning out to be actually royalty would not break this, but everything surrounding it does. He's all perfect, and the game pretty much outright says that the reason he's so great is because he's royalty. Again; more the plot's fault, so I'll give it a partial pass, but Alm never deals with this dilemma, so that's a character problem.

Overall, Alm as a character is an interesting concept, marred by plot problems outside his character, and by wasted potential.

[wissenschaft]

To be fair to Alm, all most all the lords in FE are the choosen one. Practically destined to save the world from an evil dragon/god. Lets be honest, there isn't a perfect lord in any FE game. Fully fleshing out the main lord isn't the aim of FE games. So you rarely get such character depth in these games.

"Though he was never shown prior at having any knowledge or skill when it came to storming a castle; something very difficult to actually do, because castles worked."

Meh, I don't expect such minor details in an FE game. This is the type of details I expect to just be hand waved in an FE game. He has experience soldiers with him, surely they know what they were doing.

Edited October 16, 2017 by wissenschaft

[vanguard333]

23 hours ago, wissenschaft said:

To be fair to Alm, all most all the lords in FE are the choosen one. Practically destined to save the world from an evil dragon/god. Lets be honest, there isn't a perfect lord in any FE game. Fully fleshing out the main lord isn't the aim of FE games. So you rarely get such character depth in these games.

"Though he was never shown prior at having any knowledge or skill when it came to storming a castle; something very difficult to actually do, because castles worked."

Meh, I don't expect such minor details in an FE game. This is the type of details I expect to just be hand waved in an FE game. He has experience soldiers with him, surely they know what they were doing.

Ugh... I personally would say most FE lords walk a fine line when it comes to being a chosen one (and Ike in particular is practically the opposite of a chosen one). Even Marth is more a case of heroic bloodline than chosen one, as it's his being descended from Anri that allows him to wield Falchion. He personally has no grand orchestrated destiny or anything like that. By contrast, Alm has the mark of Duma on his hand, when it was prophesized that the brand-bearers would be the ones to end the maddened Duma and Mila.

The castle thing is not a minor detail. Quite a few FE games usually go into a fair amount of detail when it comes to the legacy behind a certain stronghold and how the heroes are going to have to take it. The Tellius series in particular does this quite a lot. When Ike's forces march on the Daein capital, they note how odd it is that they've been let right into the castle, as forcing a siege would be much to Daein's advantage. In radiant dawn, they show one Begnion fortress falling due to a stealth mission to sneak inside and open the gates at night. 

Even without that, in SoV, the deliverance mentions quite a few times how bad it was that they lost Zofia Castle; the best castle in the kingdom considering it's the royal home, and then lost an outpost. So it is a bit jarring how, suddenly, with five more people, they are able to retake a castle they had previously lost, with potentially fewer troops than they had when they lost the castle in the first place. Alm, to his credit, had previously taken one outpost. One outpost, compared to a royal castle. If it was thanks to the experienced troops, then it wasn't Alm's victory. Yet everyone except Alm, including the bad guys, attribute the victory to him, when he had brought nothing new except for four guys, including himself. Had they mentioned him coming up with an unorthodox tactic that enabled them to enter the castle more easily (potentially based on something Mycen taught him), or something along those lines, that would have been a lot better, especially since then they could have had it that someone notices a similarity between what Alm did, and Rigelian siege tactics, further hinting at both Mycen and Alm's origins.

[Armagon]

10 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

The castle thing is not a minor detail. Quite a few FE games usually go into a fair amount of detail when it comes to the legacy behind a certain stronghold and how the heroes are going to have to take it. The Tellius series in particular does this quite a lot. When Ike's forces march on the Daein capital, they note how odd it is that they've been let right into the castle, as forcing a siege would be much to Daein's advantage. In radiant dawn, they show one Begnion fortress falling due to a stealth mission to sneak inside and open the gates at night. 

That being said, there have been times where the Lord takes over certain strongholds fairly easily. We have Roy, who conquered the "unconquerable" Castle Ostia. Keep in mind that Roy's men were still had low morale at the time due to Hector's death. We have Ephraim, who took over Fort Renvall with just himself and four other men. Fort Renvall was outright stated to be a natural stronghold, being hard to assault but easy to defend. Alm taking over Zofia Castle is basically the same thing as those other two examples.

[vanguard333]

8 hours ago, Armagon said:

That being said, there have been times where the Lord takes over certain strongholds fairly easily. We have Roy, who conquered the "unconquerable" Castle Ostia. Keep in mind that Roy's men were still had low morale at the time due to Hector's death. We have Ephraim, who took over Fort Renvall with just himself and four other men. Fort Renvall was outright stated to be a natural stronghold, being hard to assault but easy to defend. Alm taking over Zofia Castle is basically the same thing as those other two examples.

Okay; true (though I honestly did not know that as I haven't played those FE games). To be fair to Roy and Ephraim, they are noble sons/princes who most likely grew up learning all about the art of siege warfare.

My main problem though with the siege of Zofia Castle in SoV is not so much how easy it was, but that the Deliverance lost the castle to the forces now occupying it, lose a few good members, such as Fernand and Mathilda, and then Alm comes in with next to no prior experience and no known training in siege warfare, and  bringing only three untrained guys with him, and suddenly the Deliverance is able to retake the very castle they had previously lost, and Alm is given all the credit for the victory.

Even something as small as the Deliverance discussing how to take the castle, and then Alm interjecting with something along the lines of, "Sorry; I know you pretty much put me in charge solely to boost morale, but I remember something my grandpa once told me about his time in Zofia Castle/how to take castles..." Would have made it a whole lot better, especially because then it really would be at least in part thanks to Alm, and they could've then gone further by having some people say something along the lines of, "That kid may be Zofian, but I know Rigelian tactics when I see them", further hinting at Mycen and Alm's true origins, and giving a better understanding of Alm's skills, so they don't come nearly as out-of-nowhere. 

[Etrurian emperor]

I don't believe there was ever anything said about Zofia castle being a particularly strong castle. In fact with all that we know it makes more sense if its not a very defendable place because it may not have been build for that. 

The castle is the capital of a slothful society, its described as the height of decadence and both Lima and Desaix seem pretty likely to tear down the castle wall to avoid it robbing them of their sunlight. Desaix also doesn't come off as a very capable defender. 

[Thane]

37 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Even something as small as the Deliverance discussing how to take the castle, and then Alm interjecting with something along the lines of, "Sorry; I know you pretty much put me in charge solely to boost morale, but I remember something my grandpa once told me about his time in Zofia Castle/how to take castles..." Would have made it a whole lot better, especially because then it really would be at least in part thanks to Alm, and they could've then gone further by having some people say something along the lines of, "That kid may be Zofian, but I know Rigelian tactics when I see them", further hinting at Mycen and Alm's true origins, and giving a better understanding of Alm's skills, so they don't come nearly as out-of-nowhere. 

I would've loved something like this. Just...anything in preparation for this map. We're led to believe the Deliverance is effectively falling apart, yet they can just charge Zofia Castle? The heck?

8 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't believe there was ever anything said about Zofia castle being a particularly strong castle. In fact with all that we know it makes more sense if its not a very defendable place because it may not have been build for that. 

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Hell, while not in the main story, Mathilda even claims that you can hold off two armies in the castle by focusing on the points of incursion in the DLC.

[Etrurian emperor]

18 minutes ago, Thane said:

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Hell, while not in the main story, Mathilda even claims that you can hold off two armies in the castle by focusing on the points of incursion in the DLC.

Ah, well I didn't get the DLC 

[Thane]

2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Ah, well I didn't get the DLC 

Neither did I.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

To be fair to Roy and Ephraim, they are noble sons/princes who most likely grew up learning all about the art of siege warfare.

It doesn't matter what kind of upbringing one had, no one can take over a castle with just himself and four other men, especially not one as fortified as Fort Renvall. At least Roy and Alm were leading actual armies.

But as you mentioned before, it's more of a gameplay fault in this case than anything else.

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

My main problem though with the siege of Zofia Castle in SoV is not so much how easy it was, but that the Deliverance lost the castle to the forces now occupying it, lose a few good members, such as Fernand and Mathilda, and then Alm comes in with next to no prior experience and no known training in siege warfare, and  bringing only three untrained guys with him, and suddenly the Deliverance is able to retake the very castle they had previously lost, and Alm is given all the credit for the victory.

The Ram Villagers aren't untrained at that point. Though another problem here is (and actually a problem the entire series has) is that we don't know how many soldier Alm was leading into battle. Sure, it looks unrealistic when Alm joins with three other people and the Deliverance is suddenly able to retake the castle.....but i highly doubt that Alm and the Ram Villagers were the only new recruits and tbh, the same can be said for the enemy side. The issue i mentioned earlier is that we only see the side of our army that we can control. This is true for every Fire Emblem game. Like, you really think Roy took over Castle Ostia with just himself and 11 other men?

I also want to bring up morale here. When Alm was made leader of the Deliverance, morale was boosted tremendously. Meanwhile, having suffered loss after loss in southern Zofia, Desaix's men likely had low morale by the time the Deliverance reached Zofia Castle. That's important, because an army with high morale is more likely to defeat an army with lower morale, even if the numbers are stacked against them. Desaix's men further had their morale lowered when Desaix (or rather, his doppelganger) left during the battle, right after Slayde was defeated.

In the case of Ephraim and Fort Renvall though, that was actually just himself and four other men. It's outright stated.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

To be fair to Roy and Ephraim, they are noble sons/princes who most likely grew up learning all about the art of siege warfare.

It doesn't matter what kind of upbringing one had, no one can take over a castle with just himself and four other men, especially not one as fortified as Fort Renvall. At least Roy and Alm were leading actual armies.

But as you mentioned before, it's more of a gameplay fault in this case than anything else.

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

My main problem though with the siege of Zofia Castle in SoV is not so much how easy it was, but that the Deliverance lost the castle to the forces now occupying it, lose a few good members, such as Fernand and Mathilda, and then Alm comes in with next to no prior experience and no known training in siege warfare, and  bringing only three untrained guys with him, and suddenly the Deliverance is able to retake the very castle they had previously lost, and Alm is given all the credit for the victory.

The Ram Villagers aren't untrained at that point. Though another problem here is (and actually a problem the entire series has) is that we don't know how many soldier Alm was leading into battle. Sure, it looks unrealistic when Alm joins with three other people and the Deliverance is suddenly able to retake the castle.....but i highly doubt that Alm and the Ram Villagers were the only new recruits and tbh, the same can be said for the enemy side. The issue i mentioned earlier is that we only see the side of our army that we can control. This is true for every Fire Emblem game. Like, you really think Roy took over Castle Ostia with just himself and 11 other men?

I also want to bring up morale here. When Alm was made leader of the Deliverance, morale was boosted tremendously. Meanwhile, having suffered loss after loss in southern Zofia, Desaix's men likely had low morale by the time the Deliverance reached Zofia Castle. That's important, because an army with high morale is more likely to defeat an army with lower morale, even if the numbers are stacked against them. Desaix's men further had their morale lowered when Desaix (or rather, his doppelganger) left during the battle, right after Slayde was defeated.

In the case of Ephraim and Fort Renvall though, that was actually just himself and four other men. It's outright stated.

[NekoKnight]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

In the case of Ephraim and Fort Renvall though, that was actually just himself and four other men. It's outright stated.

Can you find the part of the script where this is stated?

I always assume that in any battle, the numbers of both enemies and allies are a mere representation of the number of actual units. You only need to pay attention to the ratio of enemies to allies. My understanding of SS is that Ephraim lead a guerilla force into Grado, not that he decided to take down a country with literally 4 people. Regardless, even if FE6&8 had questionable victories, that doesn't excuse the taking of Zofia castle or why Alm was praised as the hero despite not really contributing to that victory.

[vanguard333]

13 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I always assume that in any battle, the numbers of both enemies and allies are a mere representation of the number of actual units. You only need to pay attention to the ratio of enemies to allies. My understanding of SS is that Ephraim lead a guerilla force into Grado, not that he decided to take down a country with literally 4 people. Regardless, even if FE6&8 had questionable victories, that doesn't excuse the taking of Zofia castle or why Alm was praised as the hero despite not really contributing to that victory.

Thank you. Yes, the numbers on both sides are usually just a representation of the number of actual units (and one thing the Tellius games did a great job of was giving the sense that there was the larger battle happening in the background). Alm led the retaking of Zofia Castle to victory despite pretty much no experience and no shown contribution besides morale, and despite the Deliverance forces, at that point, being outnumbered and having lost soldiers in previous fights. 

[Armagon]

26 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Can you find the part of the script where this is stated?

Alright, so it's not outright stated but it's heavily implied.

27 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

My understanding of SS is that Ephraim lead a guerilla force into Grado, not that he decided to take down a country with literally 4 people.

No, that was just Fort Renvall. By the time Ephraim defeats Grado, he has a reasonable army behind him (assuming Ephraim's route was played).

28 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Regardless, even if FE6&8 had questionable victories, that doesn't excuse the taking of Zofia castle or why Alm was praised as the hero despite not really contributing to that victory.

No it doesn't, it's just Alm isn't the only one to do it.

10 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Alm led the retaking of Zofia Castle to victory despite pretty much no experience and no shown contribution besides morale, and despite the Deliverance forces, at that point, being outnumbered and having lost soldiers in previous fights. 

Ok but isn't the Lord's army always outnumbered. I can't think of any Fire Emblem battle where the Lord's army had the numbers advantage.

[Interdimensional Observer]

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Alright, so it's not outright stated but it's heavily implied.

Disagree, what is stated is that he is dangerously low on supplies and low on numbers, but it's never said to be just four units.

From Chapter 1:

Spoiler

Seth:
“King Hayden. You know of Prince Ephraim’s disappearance, do you not?”

Hayden:
“Yes, we hear the prince and his men hound Grado at every turn. It’s said that he’s led his forces into the empire itself. Reports suggest he’s crossed the border and now fights in Renvall.”

Eirika:
“My brother… He fights on? Even now?”

Hayden:
“Yes. My pegasus knights bought this information at a great price. Even though Renais has fallen, he charges into the enemy’s heart. He is truly Fado’s son… What a valiant youth. I wish I knew whether he remains unharmed, but I do not.”

From Chapter 5x:

Spoiler

Ephraim:
“Forde, how are we on supplies and equipment?”

Forde:
“It’s not looking good. Our weapons are in bad shape, and we’re running low on food. We can probably restock at a nearby village, but–“

Ephraim:
“No, that’s not an option. We’re in enemy territory. I will not involve innocents if I can avoid it.”

Forde:
“Yeah, I knew you’d say that. I mean, it’s because of stuff like that that we’ve stuck with you so far. But eventually, we do need to face reality. What are we going to do?”

Kyle:
“Word of mouth has it that the invasion of Renais has progressed quite far. I’ve heard that the capital has fallen.”

Ephraim:
“Hm…So soon… Still, my father is in the capital, and he won’t surrender easily. Forde, Kyle. Our mission here is to harry the troops, to distract their eye. Hopefully, we’ll be able to give my father and Eirika time to escape. Kyle, have you heard anything from Orson? I sent him ahead to scout.”

Kyle:
“No word yet, and it’s about time he returned…”

(Orson appears)

Orson:
“Reporting in, Prince Ephraim. I can confirm Grado presence at several points around our camp. Also, a large battalion of soldiers has been dispatched from Renvall. We shouldn’t tarry here any longer than necessary…”

Ephraim:
“I see.”

Forde:
“Seems as though we’ve certainly caught Grado’s eye this time. Should we retreat back to the capital, Prince Ephraim?”

Ephraim:
“No. We press onward. We’re going to capture Renvall.”

Forde:
“Wh-what?!?”

(They ride up to Renvall)

Ephraim:
“So this is Renvall, is it? All right, let’s go.”

Forde:
“Um…Are you…sure you’re quite sane, Prince Ephraim? We’ve an entire army after us, and you want to charge their stronghold?”

Kyle:
“Forde! Watch your tongue! This is our prince you’re addressing!”

Ephraim:
“Kyle, please, it’s all right. We’ve heard nothing from home, So what harm could a little reckless besieging cause?”

Kyle:
“Prince Ephraim…”

Ephraim:
“Don’t worry. I haven’t lost all sense of self-preservation. Renvall holds an important place in Grado’s national defense. If we can get the upper hand and take control of it, then Grado will waste many valuable soldiers trying to take it back I hope our attack proves useful to my father and Eirika.”

Forde:
“I understand what you’re saying, but… can we do it with our current strength?”

Ephraim:
“Every soldier in this area is trying to find us. The enemy has us vastly outnumbered. Attacking the castle is a ridiculous idea. If the enemy thinks the same… then we may have our opening.”

Forde:
“You have a point. I’m sure Renvall won’t expect us to attack with these numbers. Either way, we can’t run forever. And we’re running out of supplies. What’ve we got to lose? Shall we get ready to go?”

Ephraim:
“Yes. If we don’t move quickly, we may never get another chance. Trust me. I don’t pick fights I cannot win.”

Kyle:
“Yes, sir!”

(When you seize the throne)

Kyle:
“We’ve secured the entire castle. You were brilliant, Prince Ephraim! What a plan! What a battle!”

Ephraim:
“I estimate at least half of the enemy troops are in the field. We took the castle, but we don’t have the manpower to hold it in a siege. There’s no point in lingering here. Let’s continue on to Grado Keep.”

So I'd guess Ephraim had a guerrilla force. How many that is, I don't know since FE rarely gives exact numbers.

RD says Micaiah had 10000 soldiers in Chapter 3-13 and Ranulf says that is pathetically small to be fighting them, but we can't gleam too much from that statement. Of course, if that is Daein's entire army or close to it, then that is pretty weak I think, and possibly realistic. Maybe unrealistic by Medieval European standards, but Sengoku Japan could muster about 200000 with both sides combined for Sekigahara, while Sengoku Japan is Early Modern, it looks Medieval-ish enough for me. 

The one time they spoke of numbers in Awakening, it was totally unrealistic, Walhart's million man army. China could possibly in the Qing or Ming muster a million- but China is much bigger than Europe.

Speaking of a lack of realism- Ephraim thought he could make it to Grado Keep with as small a force as he had. I never realized he was that aggressively stupid! That's points off there.

[NekoKnight]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Ok but isn't the Lord's army always outnumbered. I can't think of any Fire Emblem battle where the Lord's army had the numbers advantage.

Sure, but part of that is gameplay. The player generally as fewer and stronger units because this is a tactical game where the individual survival of units is important.

The problem with taking Castle Zofia is that the narative painted a clear picture of the Deliverance getting their asses kicked, and then overnight they take out the enemy's strongest fortress. I understand it's a remake, but if they wanted to show the Deliverance getting stronger or Dessaix's troops losing morale, they should show it gradually. And as far as Alm is credited as the hero, he should actually contribute something to their new success other than showing up. Heck, if Alm commented on the disproportionate praise he receives compared to his contribution, it would better cement that he is just a figurehead rather than the instant awesome-sauce leader people say he is.

[Interdimensional Observer]

13 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

The problem with taking Castle Zofia is that the narative painted a clear picture of the Deliverance getting their asses kicked, and then overnight they take out the enemy's strongest fortress. I understand it's a remake, but if they wanted to show the Deliverance getting stronger or Dessaix's troops losing morale, they should show it gradually. And as far as Alm is credited as the hero, he should actually contribute something to their new success other than showing up. Heck, if Alm commented on the disproportionate praise he receives compared to his contribution, it would better cement that he is just a figurehead rather than the instant awesome-sauce leader people say he is.

That I think is the problem here. The Hideout is right next to Zofia Castle from a gameplay perspective, nothing of the world map was changed from Gaiden. Had IS bothered to mess around with Gaiden's map progression then there could have been gradualism. Why not kick the Delibird to the Southern Outpost?

[vanguard333]

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

RD says Micaiah had 10000 soldiers in Chapter 3-13 and Ranulf says that is pathetically small to be fighting them, but we can't gleam too much from that statement. Of course, if that is Daein's entire army or close to it, then that is pretty weak I think, and possibly realistic. Maybe unrealistic by Medieval European standards, but Sengoku Japan could muster about 200000 with both sides combined for Sekigahara, while Sengoku Japan is Early Modern, it looks Medieval-ish enough for me. 

The one time they spoke of numbers in Awakening, it was totally unrealistic, Walhart's million man army. China could possibly in the Qing or Ming muster a million- but China is much bigger than Europe.

10,000 soldiers actually would not be bad at all in Medieval Europe, due to population sizes and the feudal system. Henry V invaded France with a force of 9,000, and France, the ones who were notably quite patient up until actually confronting Henry's army, were able to raise an army of 17,000. So yeah, not large numbers, and this was during the dawn of the 15th Century, which saw a gradual increase in the use of professional soldiers and the decline of the knight on horseback.

To be fair to Ranulf, at that point the Daein army was having to fight an alliance of bird and beast Laguz, Crimea, and the remaining members of Begnion's army that were loyal to the empress. Possibly the only point in Fire Emblem where the playable units' army outnumbered the enemy units' army.

Edited October 18, 2017 by vanguard333