Do you like Alm's character? (spoilers, I guess)

[RJWalker]

Alm was never aggressive in Gaiden. Awakening's characterization is a complete misinterpretation. He was never that sort of person. Impulsive, yes, aggressive, hell no. There was never much contrast between him and Celica.

These are all of Alm's lines in Gaiden:

Quote

"Wait — I’ll join the liberation forces in place of Gramps."

"But the “Pact of the Gods” upheld by Sofia and Rigel means we shouldn’t come to blows, right? Our guardian, the Lady Mila, would never permit such a thing."

"Ah, Gramps!! What are you doing at the castle of Sofia?"

"? … You are… Ce… Cellica? It is Cellica, isn’t it!"

"That’s right. When we were little, we grew up together like siblings. Always playing together, just the two of us. Cellica, when all of a sudden, you were no longer there — At that time, I… I held a serious grudge against Gramps."

"But why? Why would Dozer want to kill you, Cellica?"

"That’s impossible. Emperor Rudolf of Rigel has seized the opportunity to attack while Sofia’s still weakened by civil war. He’s already started an invasion. At this rate, the Kingdom of Sofia is going to be destroyed."

"That’s no good. You can’t just tell the people of Sofia to go live under the barbarous rule of Rigel. Seeing as how Rigel aided Dozer in ravaging the lands of Sofia, we’ve got no choice but to fight."

"What! That’s mean, Cellica. I don’t have those kinds of ambitions. I just want to protect the people of Sofia, that’s all. Besides, it seems that the royal family of Sofia’s only remaining princess is still alive, so I’m planning to search for her. As soon as I find that princess, I’m returning to the village."

"Cellica!?"

"Everyone, don’t let your guard down. A large brigade from Rigel is heading our way. Knights to the front; mages fall back. Fortify our defenses. Disperse the enemies and pick them off one by one!"

"What in the world are you doing imprisoned in a place like this?"

"General Zeke, you are opposed to this war, are you not? Please, I would like to ask you to lend your strength to our cause."

"I understand… I must apologize for my rudeness."

"Mark? … Ah, this has been around since forever. According to Gramps it’s a birthmark from when I was a baby, but what does this…?"

"Ah, Gramps — what in the world is going on!? How could such a despicable man as Emperor Rudolf be my father!!! That’s awful. Did you know nothing of this, Gramps!?"

"But why did something like this… Why could I not avoid fighting against my own father?"

"! Cellica —"

"Are you all right, Cellica?!"

"Ah, it’ll be okay now. I’ll crush these bastards for you."

"That’s enough. I understand. At any rate — Cellica! Right now, what matters is escaping!!! I’m definitely going to save you! I’ll definitely save you, so believe in me. Go for it, Cellica!!"

Literally every single line Alm speaks in Gaiden. Every last line. And the only line that suggests Alm is some sort of aggressive warmonger or battle hungry is the "crush these bastards" line. The vast majority of these lines which are the closest thing to characterization Alm gets in Gaiden (which I've highlighted) are kept in Shadows of Valentia and are nearly identical.

Alm was not altered in Shadows of Valentia to make him less aggressive and more kindhearted. Awakening's portrayal of him was a huge misinterpretation and mischaracterization. People are thinking this misinterpretation was what he actually was like Gaiden when this is far from the truth.

Back to the highlighted lines. As i've said, they're kept pretty much the same in Shadows of Valentia and they what personality and character they imply is the exact same personality and character he has in Shadows of Valentia. The lines about being upset at Mycen sending Celica away is still there in a sense. The whole conversation about Rigel being the invader and Zofia not really having any other choice than to drive back the invaders is still there. Even in Gaiden, he's merely driving them out, not taking war to them. He didn't have any kingly ambitions in Gaiden and this is kept true in the remake as well. I'm also surprised at some being upset that Alm petitions Rigel for a ceasefire in Shadows of Valentia instead of just straight up invading. That he wants peace instead of war is the sign of good ruler and you want that gone? For what? The remake also doesn't really make much of a point of saying Alm is aggressive to contrast to Celica. Celica being upset at Alm going to war is not an indication that Alm is a warmonger but is supposed to show Celica's fear of her vision coming true.

Alm is a multifaceted character. He's wonderfully written. Sure, he doesn't 'develop' but I question the need for that if he's such a well rounded character from the start. He's usually kind and jovial, making silly puns. When the time calls for seriousness, he's serious as evidenced by him being ready to execute Berkut at the Battle of the Border. He's also not shy at all about saying Clive is to blame for the fall of the southern outpost and Claire's capture and this accusation troubles Lukas. He also defends Lukas from Fernand's accusations. He also calls out Clive's hypocrisy in regards to saving Delthea, which Clive later admits. ANd should the rescue of Mathilda fail, Clive in turn will not hesitate to say he may have made a terrible mistake in making Alm the leader, saying that Alm has cost him both his friend and now his lover. Alm regularly shows a desire for an actual family and when the truth comes out, he's distraught. Even more so when Berkut dies. He initially even refuses to speak to Mycen because of how much Mycen kept hidden. He also says that what hurt him most was that Mycen was not his blood related grandfather, again, showing his desire for a real family. And perhaps the best part of the whole game is the conversation Alm's group has about creating a better world in Act 5, where Alm shows that he's not naive about the struggle but says that a creating a better world will be worth the pain. This is such a Rigelian attitude (aside from the independence from gods) and the best part is that all of his companions are Zofians who learn to accept a Rigelian viewpoint but use their own Zofian viewpoints to show restraint and not go straight into the 'search for ever greater power' as Celica puts it in her Duma Tower monologue.

Alm is a very well written character and especially in contrast to characters like Chrom who pretend to develop for most of the game only to completely throw it all away and regress near the end or Corrin who is actively encouraged to not develop into a more mature person by their siblings. Alm may not have much character development but he starts of so enjoyable and stays that way that he doesn't need it.

Edited June 18, 2017 by RJWalker

[Etrurian emperor]

I understand the criticism that Alm isn't aggressive enough and to much like a generic Fire emblem lord. I even agree to some extend.

But I do not mind because I really like the Alm we were given. I find Alm to be a very pleasant main character. He is almost constantly a very nice, gentle boy while also being very mellow and casual. He is also quite witty in his comments which makes me enjoy seeing him on screen.

Alm may not be one of the best lord but I certainly think he's the most likable of the bunch. 

[Tolvir]

I prefer Celica a lot. She makes mistakes, she makes some stupid decisions with good intentions, I think she was the far stronger lord here.

Alm just felt too perfect. I would go so far as to say Corrin was even better than him on this angle, because at least it was clear Corrin was naive and made stupid decisions. The only problem there is he never got called out on it. With Alm, he makes the best decisions all the time and is always sure of what he is going to do without a problem. He doesnt make any mistakes over the course of the game. Its hard to believe when he just came from a village with no experience in actually leading anyone.

Sure he had Mycen teaching him most likely tactics, combat, leadership, etc. But book knowledge and actual experience are two different things. You can have all the book knowledge you can get, but without practical experience you lack a huge part of being a good leader. Alm should of fallen down a few times in the beginning. Maybe some soldiers die due to bad plans, or ,maybe something not planned for causes something to happen. Nobody major needed to die in order to show Alm failing and learning from his mistakes. That is what was needed so badly.

My other issue with Alm is they dropped his agressiveness. he was way too forgiving and way too nice compared to his original version. It made the contrast of Celica and Alm go away, which was a major part of Gaiden's concepts, the difference between their ideals. Instead we got Alm once again always being right and Celica being made out to be making the bad decisions all the time. As opposed to Celica trying to go the route of peace and ending it all before more people get hurt, and Alm taking the route of anything standing in our way is an enemy and needs to go. It destroyed that entire theme of the story.

I will go as far as to say Alm is my least favorite lord. I really wanted to like Alm, but I just didnt like him throughout the story. He was just so boring and uninteresting. He was Marth part 3 for me, boring, perfect, and forgettable.

Celica on the otherhand is one of my favorite Lords of the series. She makes mistakes, and she makes a few bad decisions, but it makes sense and only advances her character imo. It also made me like, story wise, Celica's group as a whole because they were willing to call her out on her mistakes but also were along with her the whole time. She does what she does out of the want to save her people and Valentia as a whole. Something Alm is supposed to have tunnel vision about. She also is a strong character, coming from the fact taht her parent's deaths and her having to live in hiding to keep her identity away didnt keep her down. She never once complained about her situation and never whined how her life has been terrible. She just kept moving along.

[NeonZ]

7 hours ago, RJWalker said:

Alm was never aggressive in Gaiden. Awakening's characterization is a complete misinterpretation. He was never that sort of person. Impulsive, yes, aggressive, hell no. There was never much contrast between him and Celica.

These are all of Alm's lines in Gaiden:

Literally every single line Alm speaks in Gaiden. Every last line. And the only line that suggests Alm is some sort of aggressive warmonger or battle hungry is the "crush these bastards" line. The vast majority of these lines which are the closest thing to characterization Alm gets in Gaiden (which I've highlighted) are kept in Shadows of Valentia and are nearly identical.

Alm was not altered in Shadows of Valentia to make him less aggressive and more kindhearted. Awakening's portrayal of him was a huge misinterpretation and mischaracterization. People are thinking this misinterpretation was what he actually was like Gaiden when this is far from the truth.

 

He didn't have much characterization in general, and didn't need to be taken in that direction, but building up Alm as a more aggressive leader based on his original Gaiden script wasn't really wrong. His grudge with Mycen (which only existed in Echoes when added up with him hiding the truth about his lineage, not just for missing Celica), giving orders to spread the enemy and pick them up one by one, the way he references Emperor Rudolf after killing him all can support the character he had there. Note that the conversation in Awakening about having compassion for his enemies comes up after he had them retreating into a castle and then decides to go after them to finish the battle, but Celica hesitates - which doesn't seem far from his orders there in the original game.

Also, although it's not directly part of his dialogue, keep in mind that Celica in Gaiden makes her agreement with Judah to save Alm in Dragon's Mountain. He ignores the village's warnings about the place, is locked in and pretty much forced to fight until dying, if it weren't for Celica. Meanwhile, in the remake he never gets in any situation over his head like that, with her "saving him" and going along with Judah just based on her own fears rather than any real threat.

Quote

That he wants peace instead of war is the sign of good ruler and you want that gone? For what? The remake also doesn't really make much of a point of saying Alm is aggressive to contrast to Celica. Celica being upset at Alm going to war is not an indication that Alm is a warmonger but is supposed to show Celica's fear of her vision coming true.

That's part of the problem though. Fates didn't handle Corrin's flaws and the consequences from that well, but Echoes Alm basically has no flaws at all. He's a perfect leader and ruler from the beginning in spite of having no experience. It gets even odder when, on the other hand, Celica's expanded characterization in Echoes makes her more flawed than she originally was.

 

Edited June 18, 2017 by NeonZ

[RJWalker]

1 hour ago, NeonZ said:

It gets even odder when, on the other hand, Celica's expanded characterization in Echoes makes her more flawed than she originally was.

I contest that Celica is more flawed. Het decision was completely right since Mila had sealed Falchion. If she hasn't unsealed it, then Celica's sacrifice was necessary as Alm wouldn't be able to defeat Duma.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Most of what I don't like about Alm is how other characters talk about how great he is, particularly Clive. But I feel Alm is at his strongest in the Act 2 finale scene, and Act 4 Finale/Act 5 beginning scenes. In the former example, he acts not out of aggression against Rigel, but out of Patriotism for this country he's finally getting to know. It's also notable that at the beginning of Act 4 that he sent a treaty for peace out to Rigel before their invasion. And I just have a hard time remembering any protagonist that ever did that before invading the evil kingdom. As for the Rudolf reveal, once Alm learns the truth about him and his designs against Duma, Alm comes to the exact same conclusion - defeat Duma and rebuild Valentia using the strength of men. Even at this point of the story, Alm and Celica are still in disagreement about this as she gives up her soul to save Mila. I wish they pushed this angle more, since Celica's journey is 100% fending off pirates, Grieth's thugs, and Duma faithful. The Who's Who of worst people in Valentia. It makes sense she would have no faith in others and holds onto hope for her God.

I don't think Alm's journey has all the nuance I would like in a protagonist, but he's definitely above average among FE protagonists, and Japanese games in general. But that's just my opinion. Celica does not get a pass, her writing is all over the place and I wish they wrote in some detail for the ending in which she was necessary to save Valentia besides providing her own Turnwheel to open the door to Duma. Like if she could also deal a finishing blow to Duma. I know this game prides itself on its faithfulness to Gaiden, but one thing I was hoping for out of this game was for Alm to not overshadow Celica's efforts.

[PolygonsandVideoGames]

People who say Alm would've been hated as an avatar are dead wrong. He has an actual personality, everyone doubts him/challenges him/hates him. He doesn't get blindly worshiped either. Hell, Clive only put him as leader because of the position he was born into.

Tough luck to the people wanting a generic Hector of a character. Alm doesn't work like that and wouldn't work. Tough. flippin. luck!

Edited June 18, 2017 by PolygonsandVideoGames

[Etrurian emperor]

I keep hearing Alm always makes good decisions but....I don't really recall Alm really making any decision aside from saving Dheltea. Aside from that he and his army generally just move from point A to point B and win fights along the way.

I also wouldn't say Alm is particularly beloved. Fernand turns traitor because of his promotion and even Clive starts to doubt Alm despite his success as a leader, even to the point he seems ready to drop Alm just after he saved his wife and killed their big enemy. Python and Forsyth don't seem nearly so critical but their conversations with Clive implies they are more his men then they are of Alm.

 

[Thunderstar]

On 17/06/2017 at 5:34 PM, unique said:

actually, while they didn't necessarily have to stick to those character personalities, since they weren't developed for an actual game, I believe the writers did intend for the characters' personalities there to be their actual ones

elvis is being nice to chrom and his buddies there, but that's because elvis is not a bad man. it's meant more as a "What will history remember?" thing where chrom says he's painted as a villain.  i believe sigurd tells seliph something similar if you get the conversation with his ghost. so within the world of awakening, alm definitely was.... that. but it was more expanding on a general theme in gaiden than his actual dialogue, so they didn't necessarily have to stick to it in echoes, even if it would've been more interesting. that was the only dlc I had in awakening though, so maybe you were right about the other part

I guess you might be right about Alvis but it doesn't change that there are still characters who acted oddly in the DLC.

For example Julius' dialogue with Say'ri implied that he only killed people if he found them suspicious or his family if they deserved it even though it wasn't the reason he killed his mother or the reason he tried to kill his sister. Also Loptyr and him sacrificing people and kids for him is not mentioned at all like if he was never controlled or under influence by him. An another example is how the Black Knight is getting pissed by Gangrel laughing at him even though he was calm and never lost his temper in the games, not even when Jarod laughed at him.
This is one of the reasons I am not sure if we are supposed to take Alm in the DLC seriously or else SoV Alm would have been a bit more similar to the DLC one.
Of course Alm could have been more interesting that way I guess but him not being aggressive didn't particulary bother me.

On 17/06/2017 at 5:34 PM, unique said:

i don't think he was necessarily admitting that he would never be as strong as alm, but more realizing that he needed to stop trying to compete with him and be better than him, not necessarily because he never will be, but because it doesn't actually matter

one of tobin's central traits is that he's constantly trying to be better than people, and alm in particular is one of them because of how strong he's always been. even before you step outside of the village, you can see this when he says things like "Try not to be too amazed when I show Alm up on the battlefield"

but you can also see that it's something that actually does bother him,  like in his support with kliff where he says "There are lots of things that tick me off. I just choose to let ’em slide. …Except maybe when Alm or Gray show me up. I can’t stand that." hell, one of his quotes when someone kills an enemy near him is "I could do better."

in that last conversation, tobin talks to alm about how much better alm was than him, and how he's always been trying to compete with him. while he does still see alm as "better" than him, he accepts that he doesn't have to be better than alm, and that he should try to support him rather than compete with him

I agree with what you said but it's just the way he said that in the last conversation that I don't like. I am okay with him wanting to support and help Alm of course especially that he technically already did that since the beginning but there was no reason for him to stop his friendly rivalry. Even from the short dialogues both of them have with each other, Alm didn't seem to mind that at all and seemed to like it.

[maybe]

9 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

I guess you might be right about Alvis but it doesn't change that there are still characters who acted oddly in the DLC.

For example Julius' dialogue with Say'ri implied that he only killed people if he found them suspicious or his family if they deserved it even though it wasn't the reason he killed his mother or the reason he tried to kill his sister. Also Loptyr and him sacrificing people and kids for him is not mentioned at all like if he was never controlled or under influence by him. An another example is how the Black Knight is getting pissed by Gangrel laughing at him even though he was calm and never lost his temper in the games, not even when Jarod laughed at him.
This is one of the reasons I am not sure if we are supposed to take Alm in the DLC seriously or else SoV Alm would have been a bit more similar to the DLC one.
Of course Alm could have been more interesting that way I guess but him not being aggressive didn't particulary bother me.

honestly, I'd chalk that up less to something in game and more to just the writers not knowing much about what some of the characters are like

like, some characters act perfectly in character, while others aren't much like they originally were at all. I think those are meant to be taken as the characters' actual personalities, but the writers just weren't accurate with all of them. it probably is difficult for them to have every single character act like they did in their own games. alm's is one where they took a few more liberties than usual with, since he didn't have much characterization to begin with. still, I don't think I would've liked that version of alm nearly as much as the one in echoes

23 minutes ago, Thunderstar said:

I agree with what you said but it's just the way he said that in the last conversation that I don't like. I am okay with him wanting to support and help Alm of course especially that he technically already did that since the beginning but there was no reason for him to stop his friendly rivalry. Even from the short dialogues both of them have with each other, Alm didn't seem to mind that at all and seemed to like it.

the thing is, the way he talks about it makes it seem like it was more than just a friendly rivalry

his exact words are "I’ve always hated how you were better than me at everything", which implies that it really was something that bothered him up until then. even if alm wasn't bothered by it, tobin definitely was, and I think it was nice for him to finally get over it at the end of the game.

 

[Thane]

12 minutes ago, unique said:

I think it was nice for him to finally get over it at the end of the game.

I'm all for some kind of character development, but I think it's incredibly lazily handled. Tobin lying down and just accepting - like the rest of the world, apparently - that Alm is superior to him in every way is not fun. What's more, this is some heavy shit he's saying, yet since it's a base monologue, Alm doesn't reply, so there's no real closure or chemistry here, just Tobin going "oh yeah by the way, I've always felt inferior to you, and I still hate it, but you can count on me or whatever".

[Refa]

2 hours ago, Thane said:

I'm all for some kind of character development, but I think it's incredibly lazily handled. Tobin lying down and just accepting - like the rest of the world, apparently - that Alm is superior to him in every way is not fun. What's more, this is some heavy shit he's saying, yet since it's a base monologue, Alm doesn't reply, so there's no real closure or chemistry here, just Tobin going "oh yeah by the way, I've always felt inferior to you, and I still hate it, but you can count on me or whatever".

I don't get why Alm doesn't reply in base monologues either.  He's not my self insert, so he should stop acting like it.

[maybe]

10 minutes ago, Refa said:

I don't get why Alm doesn't reply in base monologues either.  He's not my self insert, so he should stop acting like it.

i think it's so the focus is kept on the character who's talking

aside from a few, the interaction with the protagonists in those is usually minimal, if there's any at all, and the actual dialogue is usually about the character who's speaking, so I think it works for them to not be saying anything. there are a few times it does feel a little strange though, like with some of celica's where the characters just have to repeat whatever celica presumably said as a question so that you can hear it

Edited June 19, 2017 by unique

[NeonZ]

10 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I keep hearing Alm always makes good decisions but....I don't really recall Alm really making any decision aside from saving Dheltea. Aside from that he and his army generally just move from point A to point B and win fights along the way.

He's always the one pushing the army forward and never has any setbacks aside from possibly failing to rescue hostages if the player messes up. I guess it's actually normal for a game with such a simple story (one could say the same thing about FE1 Marth, for example), but in this case they did remove the one time that Alm did need help.

I also wouldn't say Alm is particularly beloved. Fernand turns traitor because of his promotion and even Clive starts to doubt Alm despite his success as a leader, even to the point he seems ready to drop Alm just after he saved his wife and killed their big enemy. Python and Forsyth don't seem nearly so critical but their conversations with Clive implies they are more his men then they are of Alm.

Clive's story is almost funny though. In order to push his doubts regarding Alm's legitimacy, he always conveniently isn't around during events like Alm wielding the Royal Sword or people noticing Alm's Brand. And his gripes regarding Alm, just like Fernand's, are shown to be entirely due to his own weakness and personal bias, rather than having any legitimacy and obviously eventually he gets over them.

[Seazas]

I LOVE when people call Alm bland when he's more memorable personality wise than every lord in the franchise (except Leif... Ily so MUCH Leif)

 Alm proves there's more to him by having a dorky reckless side if you ever checked out the examination feature which goes great with his serious. mellow with a tad bit of a hot-headed personality. Alm coming from both sides of the whole commoners vs nobles thing with Alm being more of a commoner and his heritage being tacked on him is PERFECT. Especially when one of the themes is to "never judge who you are and where you came from" so secret noble or not Alm is still the only lord you'd actually see in the dirt. 
 

Marth is Marth. Not that special.

Sigurd is generic and is only memorable because he got burned up.

Seliph is just as generic but only remembered because he's the child of the lord who actually died.

Roy is only liked and remembered so much because lol: "Roy's our boy!" and fire sword. I even looked into his supports and they don't expand his character and especially his personality that much. 

Eliwood is nothing to write home about. Lyn was shafted in her own story so there's no chance for her to get a established character than just a badass female. Hector is cool but I prefer Alm. Hector's my third favorite though and i admit he's more fun to watch. (Though Alm's antics like him looking into the sun is fun too)

Eirika... Ehhh nah... Ephraim bullshits his way through everything and is way too much of a perfect guy for me. Storming a castle with three guys is just bullshit and Eirika has to suffer for his decision instead of Ephraim unlike Alm where if he fucks up he gets chewed out and has to take responsibility. At least in Echoes it's established Alm has always been fighting with a full-blown army than just his friends as cutscenes and the game proves.

Ike has ZERO character and no depth there's nothing more to him than just being a badass.

Micaiah struggles and I respect that. Not sure if I'd call her better than Alm since she did make dumb decisions and didn't listen to anybody.

Chrom isn't that special either and he BACKPEDALS on the growth the game was trying to give him. He's willing to screw over the future and be the reason a ton more losses happen when he was supposed to be built up to accept sacrifice for the sake of finally achieving peace and end the deaths.

Corrin is so bad it's not even a contest. XD No one's jumping off a cliff for Alm not even the people closest to him: his friends. 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Peaceful_User

[FireEmblemFan2017]

On 6/17/2017 at 10:23 AM, KliffIsTheOG said:

I would have preferred more aggressive Alm, but he is not a bad character Imo.

I disagree that people would have loathed him as an avatar because he isn't constantly making idiotic decisions and insulting the player's intelligence like Corrin, and doesn't take the spotlight away form an actual main character like Robin. The times in which people felt inferior to Alm made sense in the characterization. When Clive admitted his inferiority to Alm, it follows well in his characterization. Clive as a unit is constantly referred to as being worse than his fiancé Mathilda, and he is shown to not be a strong leader for the deliverance as he was, as Gray put it, losing the war. These traits are also reflected in Clive's bases and growths, and it seems like his admittance to inferiority was more to put a spotlight on Clive than Alm. Tobin also admits his inferiority to Aim, but it also helps to build his character. Throughout the game, Tobin is shown to be insecure and competitive with the other villagers, particularly Gray and Alm. After constantly being shown up by both, it is only natural to let go of the burden and need to compete in order to to stop harboring jealousy for Alm, and maintain friendship. This character trait is also shown in his support with Gray, where after competing for Claire, he eventually says that he would rather continue being friends with Gray than have Claire. The only woman who obsesses over Alm is Faye, who I will admit was not a good edition to the squad. Claire is not madly in love with Alm, and in her ending where Gray dies the game says, "Gray's death left Clair feeling betrayed and alone, but she joined the knights of the One Kingdom and contributed greatly to their growth. The people were enamored with her melancholy beauty, which was a splash of color amidst the mostly dour men of the Brotherhood." This shows that Claire in reality wanted Gray over Alm (particularly if you go by Gaiden endings). Celica is not obsessive over Alm, but cares deeply for him. Given that the first time they meet again in years ends in argumentation, it is safe to assume that Celica is not "obsessed" with Alm.

Other than that, I agree with your post

It gets on my nerves when people who dislike Robin say he stole Chroms spotlight he really doesn't the ending chapters is like 3 chapters and until than chrom has the story. Have people forgotten that Chrom and Robin are dual protagonist they are both important to the story in the long run.

[Tenzen12]

I don't find Alm special or particularly great character, but if I had to choose between like and dislike, like would be easy choice. 

For one I wouldn't say he makes always right decisions, but he does human ones. Objectively speaking killing Delthea would be much better choice. He also decide go to Nuibaba abode and Dragon jaw and let's be honest neither of these two was particularly great decisions. Alm himself feels like biting more than he could chew and is mostly lucky to get so far even if his growth as person contributed a lot. 

I did dislike Clive decision to just entrust Deliverance some random village hick, but that's not really Alm fault it is just Clive being scrub. But even  then I could forgive that on behalf of Fernand calling him for his crap and I would assume he represented more than himself in that regard. 

Celica in other hand has no excuse, it feels like she is just supposed make Alm look good by comparison. Remove her and Alm a suddenly doesn't look all that perfect. It would also improve game on general. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Interdimensional Observer]

19 hours ago, FireEmblemFan2017 said:

It gets on my nerves when people who dislike Robin say he stole Chroms spotlight he really doesn't the ending chapters is like 3 chapters and until than chrom has the story. Have people forgotten that Chrom and Robin are dual protagonist they are both important to the story in the long run.

Plegia Arc- Chrom leads the protag duo.

Valm Arc- Things shift towards being equals.

Grima Arc- Robin leads the protag duo. The final battle is totally their's and not Chrom's. Id is more or less Robin's theme after all.

 

On 9/17/2017 at 5:47 AM, Peaceful_User said:

I LOVE when people call Alm bland when he's more memorable personality wise than every lord in the franchise (except Leif... Ily so MUCH Leif)

Having paid attention to your adamant defense of Celica's choice (which I find a bit contradictory given you say Micaiah was being dumb), I think I can now say you're a SoV apologist/devotee. Not that it's a crime at all to be one, be as you wish, I'm tolerant.

[Seazas]

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Plegia Arc- Chrom leads the protag duo.

Valm Arc- Things shift towards being equals.

Grima Arc- Robin leads the protag duo. The final battle is totally their's and not Chrom's. Id is more or less Robin's theme after all.

 

Having paid attention to your adamant defense of Celica's choice (which I find a bit contradictory given you say Micaiah was being dumb), I think I can now say you're a SoV apologist/devotee. Not that it's a crime at all to be one, be as you wish, I'm tolerant.

When did I ever call Micaiah dumb? She's flawed but believable just like Celica.

 

If I did I must've not been paying attention. 

[NekoKnight]

21 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

For one I wouldn't say he makes always right decisions, but he does human ones. Objectively speaking killing Delthea would be much better choice. He also decide go to Nuibaba abode and Dragon jaw and let's be honest neither of these two was particularly great decisions. Alm himself feels like biting more than he could chew and is mostly lucky to get so far even if his growth as person contributed a lot. 

I dunno, I feel like it's a weaker story when the "human decisions" always lead to the best result. Alm doesn't fail in any way, no matter how reckless he might be, they were the right decisions to make.

Conversely, Celica makes some human decisions (and  lot of dumb ones too) and she gets punished for it.

[Tenzen12]

I definitely agree it's weaker story, but, I wouldn't say it always lead to best result. What Alm got from Nuibaba abode?  And how he profited for almost getting killed at Dragon maw? He even killed own father along the way. 

Story might be putting him on pedestal at times and that suck, but I think he comes out of it as decent character despite of all that. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Thane]

7 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

What Alm got from Nuibaba abode?

A general.

7 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

And how he profited for almost getting killed at Dragon maw?

That was a not a decision he made. Not to mention if you play through Celica's part of the story first, like I did, this does not happen.

7 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

He even killed own father along the way. 

The responsibility of which is immediately lifted from his shoulder and treated like the best and only way Rudolf could go.

[DefyingFates]

I voted yes. That said, I did find it funny that he won the trust of the Deliverance (sans Fernand) with seemingly no difficulty whatsoever and him saying he's "not alone anymore" at the end (regarding an alliance with Berkut) irked me. I get that he's a heavily idealised individual and agree that a change would be nice, but I like him.

If anything, my biggest complaint is that he completely eclipses Celica, in terms of both gameplay and plot significance, by game's end.

[Tenzen12]

3 hours ago, Thane said:

A general.

That was a not a decision he made. Not to mention if you play through Celica's part of the story first, like I did, this does not happen.

The responsibility of which is immediately lifted from his shoulder and treated like the best and only way Rudolf could go.

I would say these arguments are mostly strawmans. Yeah he got Tatiana and then Camus  (well Zeke), but story wise they doesn't really matter enough to justify leading army there. 

About the  Maw, he was warned that's the fact (or maybe I remember it wrong, that's also possibility) and he made decisions go regardless which turned   not among best ones he did in retrospective. That is something that doesn't change even if you abuse loophile in game mechanics to avoid event itself. 

You might be right about Rudolph, though, it's not like player have to go along with how it's presented, 

[Thane]

Just now, Tenzen12 said:

Yeah he got Tatiana and then Camus  (well Zeke), but story wise they doesn't really matter enough to justify leading army there. 

Then why is it not framed as a problem? He did something that could be considered a bad decision, yet he only gets rewarded for it. That's sort of what bother a lot of people with Alm's character in the first place.

1 minute ago, Tenzen12 said:

About the  Maw, he was warned that's the fact (or maybe I remember it wrong, that's also possibility) and he made decisions go regardless which turned   not among best ones he did in retrospective. That is something that doesn't change even if you abuse loophile in game mechanics to avoid event itself. 

Where was he warned about that? I'm not saying he wasn't, but I want to know the context.

How is beating Celica's half of the chapter first "abusing a loophole"?

2 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

You might be right about Rudolph, though, it's not like player have to go along with how it's presented, 

What?