General Warriors & FE Warriors Questions Thread

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

To add on to what Folt said, the difference in the Strength value between characters in one tier from that of an adjacent one (at the same level) is 25 points. The gap remains this size regardless of whether the characters in question are at level 99 or 255 or anywhere in between (don't know about less than 99- but it's probably the same difference).

Meaning Impa has 25 more Strength than Link, being one tier above him (if we put the weakest characters at the bottom, and the strongest at the top). Whereas Ganondorf would have 50 more Strength than Link being two tiers above him. So the difference between the strongest tier of characters and the weakest is 100 points. Which is totally insignificant at 255, but certainly not meaningless when at levels you haven't grinded into oblivion for.

 

5 hours ago, Folt said:

It's actually only 25 points difference once all characters are 99 (but they keep that difference thereafter). It's still rather significant because while the real damage that characters do is determined moreso by damage multipliers than the Power stat, the Power stat provides the base for said damage multipliers so Ganondorf would for example always deal more damage than a Link wielding the Gauntlets weapon overall since while Gauntlets!Link has multipliers that can rival Ganondorf's, Ganondorf's higher Power Stat means he always does slightly higher damage than Link if his attack use an equally high damage multiplier.

Elements are likely going to be more like they are in Dynasty Warriors, where you can afflict your opponents with different kinds of effects/attributes depending on what element you're using against them, rather than having elements do more effective damage against certain characters.

I see then. And speaking of the Gauntlets, why oh why are they so damn awful?

[Arthur97]

4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

I see then. And speaking of the Gauntlets, why oh why are they so damn awful?

I kind of like the gauntlets. Especially the chain chomp cameo.

[Folt]

2 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

 

I see then. And speaking of the Gauntlets, why oh why are they so damn awful?

Funny you should say that. The Gauntlets are an incredibly good moveset, even by the HW standard that just about every moveset is at the very least functional.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I see then. And speaking of the Gauntlets, why oh why are they so damn awful?

Well the C1 is incredibly situational- only Bomb Flowers and boulders (which are rare than living dodos) make it do any real damage. The C2-3 has a giant delay, so you're better dodge canceling the attack before Link starts digging- do that and it'll Weak Point Smash officers perfectly fine. The C3 is good for small groups and dealing non-WPS damage to officers, you can choose to cancel the last hit if you want to start hit the enemies with something else while they're stunned. The C4 is a bit slow and does leave you vulnerable (a bit issue given the low taken damage limits for A ranking), but it does provide good large crowd control. Lightning isn't a bad element either. The Master Sword is Link's best weapon (and arguably the best in the entire game), but the Gauntlets certainly aren't the worst. For Link the Great Fairy has it much worse, and overall Fi and from what I've heard Tetra are the weaklings.

By the way @Folt, do you happen to know the damage caps for every attack/their multipliers? I can't seem to find a list of them- I thought CPU-Z compiled that on GFAQs.

[Folt]

10 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well the C1 is incredibly situational- only Bomb Flowers and boulders (which are rare than living dodos) make it do any real damage. The C2-3 has a giant delay, so you're better dodge canceling the attack before Link starts digging- do that and it'll Weak Point Smash officers perfectly fine. The C3 is good for small groups and dealing non-WPS damage to officers, you can choose to cancel the last hit if you want to start hit the enemies with something else while they're stunned. The C4 is a bit slow and does leave you vulnerable (a bit issue given the low taken damage limits for A ranking), but it does provide good large crowd control. Lightning isn't a bad element either. The Master Sword is Link's best weapon (and arguably the best in the entire game), but the Gauntlets certainly aren't the worst. For Link the Great Fairy has it much worse, and overall Fi and from what I've heard Tetra are the weaklings.

By the way @Folt, do you happen to know the damage caps for every attack/their multipliers? I can't seem to find a list of them- I thought CPU-Z compiled that on GFAQs.

No. But I do have his Gauntlets damage values calculated in pixels against Hero Mode enemies if you wonder:

Quote

 

Spoiler

 

C1:

• Pot: 25-ish when thrown, 58+ when slammed
• Grass: 15-16 when thrown, 20+ when doing whirlwind if all hits connect
• Boulder: 58+ when thrown, 260+ when shoved and punched apart
• Bomb flower: 29-30 when thrown, 45 when rolled
• Enemies: 9 when thrown

C2

• C2-1: 7
• C2-2: 7
• C2-3: 7

C3

• C3-1: 15-16 pixels
• C3-2: 9 pixels for each electric trail, 27 in total if all connect
• C3-3: 7 pixels first hit, 15-16 pixels second hit

C4

• C4-1: 7-ish pixels right next to Link, 16 pixels for the column
• C4-2: 16 pixels if all rotations connect properly
• C4-3: 16 

C5

• C5: 5 for the initial trapping hitbox, 50 for the main damage hitbox

 

 

 

In general, you will only want to use the C2-1 part of C2 since that easily launches enemies, follow up with two C3-2s, then finish the combo with C5 when you're facing officers (Lizalfos, Dinolfos, Big Poes, ext.). Commanders (like Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, etc.) and when you're fighting multiple officers/commanders at a time is when you want to spam C3-2 because of it's good damage and the slow effect it imposes on enemies. Mooks go down to the entirety of the C4 though that's mostly the Mooks in front of Link if you're on the highest difficulty levels on Hero Mode since Mooks on that level need to take 20 pixels or so of damage before they croak. C1 is something to keep in mind if you find a boulder because using the regular attack button while holding a boulder can severely hurt an enemy.

In addition, it can take down King Dodongo and Argorok's WPGs from full to 0. Overall, it's a very versatile weapon and is easily around the top 10 of all Hyrule Warriors movesets.

[Thany]

On the subjects of gauntlets. Dynasty warriors and samurai warriors had alot of weapons to make very unique movesets around. but would there be any fire emblem weapons that could mimic the ball and chain thing of hyrule warriors and dynasty warriors? will there be any creative liberties with the games weapons in a way? if a ball and chain was in the game, would it be classified as an axe? Im intriuged to wonder just how little weapon variety we will get in this game, but how unique the movesets would still be.

[Arthur97]

2 hours ago, Thany said:

On the subjects of gauntlets. Dynasty warriors and samurai warriors had alot of weapons to make very unique movesets around. but would there be any fire emblem weapons that could mimic the ball and chain thing of hyrule warriors and dynasty warriors? will there be any creative liberties with the games weapons in a way? if a ball and chain was in the game, would it be classified as an axe? Im intriuged to wonder just how little weapon variety we will get in this game, but how unique the movesets would still be.

I don't think Fire Emblem can match the levels of uniqueness that Zelda could achieve, but they will probably still make some interesting stuff.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Thany said:

On the subjects of gauntlets. Dynasty warriors and samurai warriors had alot of weapons to make very unique movesets around. but would there be any fire emblem weapons that could mimic the ball and chain thing of hyrule warriors and dynasty warriors? will there be any creative liberties with the games weapons in a way? if a ball and chain was in the game, would it be classified as an axe? Im intriuged to wonder just how little weapon variety we will get in this game, but how unique the movesets would still be.

Have you seen the General animations for the GBA games? If we ever got Osw1n (who'd make for the most likely of GBA knights given he's Hector's Jagen), then we could possibly get something like a ball and chain with an axe and lance instead. Though I could also see it play out like Jia Xu's chain and sickle.

[Jedi]

6 hours ago, Thany said:

On the subjects of gauntlets. Dynasty warriors and samurai warriors had alot of weapons to make very unique movesets around. but would there be any fire emblem weapons that could mimic the ball and chain thing of hyrule warriors and dynasty warriors? will there be any creative liberties with the games weapons in a way? if a ball and chain was in the game, would it be classified as an axe? Im intriuged to wonder just how little weapon variety we will get in this game, but how unique the movesets would still be.

The GBA General animations would be the closest you could get to those I think. 

[Shadow Mir]

On 7/8/2017 at 2:51 PM, Folt said:

Funny you should say that. The Gauntlets are an incredibly good moveset, even by the HW standard that just about every moveset is at the very least functional.

Ha. If they were, I wouldn't be (a) groaning every time I see a mission that locks me to Gauntlets Link, (b) struggling with said missions, and (c) complaining about it here. 

On 7/8/2017 at 2:48 PM, Arthur97 said:

I kind of like the gauntlets. Especially the chain chomp cameo.

I like the chain chomp cameo, but still I feel the Gauntlets just can't get the damn job done. Especially against the stuff that really matters, like Rally Captains, which need to die ASAP if I don't want my army to get rekt six ways from Sunday

23 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well the C1 is incredibly situational- only Bomb Flowers and boulders (which are rare than living dodos) make it do any real damage. The C2-3 has a giant delay, so you're better dodge canceling the attack before Link starts digging- do that and it'll Weak Point Smash officers perfectly fine. The C3 is good for small groups and dealing non-WPS damage to officers, you can choose to cancel the last hit if you want to start hit the enemies with something else while they're stunned. The C4 is a bit slow and does leave you vulnerable (a bit issue given the low taken damage limits for A ranking), but it does provide good large crowd control. Lightning isn't a bad element either. The Master Sword is Link's best weapon (and arguably the best in the entire game), but the Gauntlets certainly aren't the worst. For Link the Great Fairy has it much worse, and overall Fi and from what I've heard Tetra are the weaklings.

Crowd control doesn't do much good once you get into a situation where multiple officers are on you like white on rice - you'll likely just make one of them break your combo, and everyone else capitalizes. Also, being a weakling is one thing, but struggling to KO officers is another.

23 hours ago, Folt said:

No. But I do have his Gauntlets damage values calculated in pixels against Hero Mode enemies if you wonder:

In general, you will only want to use the C2-1 part of C2 since that easily launches enemies, follow up with two C3-2s, then finish the combo with C5 when you're facing officers (Lizalfos, Dinolfos, Big Poes, ext.). Commanders (like Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, etc.) and when you're fighting multiple officers/commanders at a time is when you want to spam C3-2 because of it's good damage and the slow effect it imposes on enemies. Mooks go down to the entirety of the C4 though that's mostly the Mooks in front of Link if you're on the highest difficulty levels on Hero Mode since Mooks on that level need to take 20 pixels or so of damage before they croak. C1 is something to keep in mind if you find a boulder because using the regular attack button while holding a boulder can severely hurt an enemy.

In addition, it can take down King Dodongo and Argorok's WPGs from full to 0. Overall, it's a very versatile weapon and is easily around the top 10 of all Hyrule Warriors movesets.

Bold: Ha ha ha no. If this was even remotely worth agreeing with... See my first point.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Folt]

Just now, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Ha. If they were, I wouldn't be (a) groaning every time I see a mission that locks me to Gauntlets Link, (b) struggling with said missions, and (c) complaining about it here. 

Bold: Ha ha ha no. If this was even remotely worth agreeing with... See my first sentence.

But it is. There's been extensive research going on and the facts of the matter is that the Gauntlets outperforms a lot of the HW weapons. In fact, I'd wager that it's either the Gauntlets or the Picture Frame that is the best Lightning-elemental weapon in the entire game.

[Shadow Mir]

Just now, Folt said:

But it is. There's been extensive research going on and the facts of the matter is that the Gauntlets outperforms a lot of the HW weapons. In fact, I'd wager that it's either the Gauntlets or the Picture Frame that is the best Lightning-elemental weapon in the entire game.

Yeah, well, I don't believe you for a nanosecond. At all.

[Folt]

Just now, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Yeah, well, I don't believe you for a nanosecond. At all.

That's fine.

But keep in mind that the Gauntlets are regarded as an exquisite moveset in general and Link's second-best weapon, not just by me, but by many others in the HW community.

[Anomalocaris]

14 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Yeah, well, I don't believe you for a nanosecond. At all.

Good for you, but that's not how it works. Just because YOU can't use a weapon well doesn't mean it's an inherently inferior weapon.

Like, I suck at using Diddy Kong in Super Smash Bros. but that doesn't mean he isn't topping the tier list composed by the best players and researchers in the community.

[Escalario]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Yeah, well, I don't believe you for a nanosecond. At all.

Someone needs to git gud. I find the Gloves to be Link's best weapon.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Escalario said:

Someone needs to git gud. I find the Gloves to be Link's best weapon.

Someone needs to learn what it's like to use something hyped and end up disappointed. Because when something hyped underdelivers, I get FURIOUS! OUTRAGED! SICK WITH ANGER!!!

[Thany]

1 hour ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Someone needs to learn what it's like to use something hyped and end up disappointed. Because when something hyped underdelivers, I get FURIOUS! OUTRAGED! SICK WITH ANGER!!!

this is a very weird thing to turn into an arguement on a questions thread for fire emblem warriors...

[Jedi]

Yeah i'm not sure why this thread has suddenly become a proving grounds arena.

[Zangetsu]

So what are exactly the odds for the character to able switch weapons? I would love play as Lucy with a spear/lance.

For that matter has there been an actual confirmation on Class change because I only heard it through people but I never found confirmation.

[Ertrick36]

13 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

So what are exactly the odds for the character to able switch weapons? I would love play as Lucy with a spear/lance.

For that matter has there been an actual confirmation on Class change because I only heard it through people but I never found confirmation.

I'd say the odds are fairly decent.  Most characters that have been revealed have been able to wield different weapon classes within their own games, and a lot of Warriors games give different weapons and movesets to their characters, not least of all Hyrule Warriors.

Some interviews have talked about classes.  They may have mentioned class change being a thing at some point.  Someone with better memory could probably confirm or deny this.

[Torii]

38 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

So what are exactly the odds for the character to able switch weapons? I would love play as Lucy with a spear/lance.

For that matter has there been an actual confirmation on Class change because I only heard it through people but I never found confirmation.

 

21 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Some interviews have talked about classes.  They may have mentioned class change being a thing at some point.  Someone with better memory could probably confirm or deny this.

I'm pretty sure it was Hayashi in an interview who confirmed it or something. He said they expected people to want to change classes and that it will also change their appearance. I don't think it will be to the extent of mainstream Fire Emblem games though. I could possibly see it as Chrom going from Lord to a Great lord for example, but reclassing into something else like archer probably won''t happen (in my opinion). 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Torii

[Zangetsu]

23 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I'd say the odds are fairly decent.  Most characters that have been revealed have been able to wield different weapon classes within their own games, and a lot of Warriors games give different weapons and movesets to their characters, not least of all Hyrule Warriors.

Some interviews have talked about classes.  They may have mentioned class change being a thing at some point.  Someone with better memory could probably confirm or deny this.

By that logic shouldn't that confirm the ability to change weapons as well?

 

2 minutes ago, Torii said:

 

I'm pretty sure it was Hayashi in an interview who confirmed it or something. He said they expected people to want to change classes and that it will also change their appearance. I don't think it will be to the extent as mainstream Fire Emblem games. I could possibly see it as Chrom going from Lord to a Great lord, but reclassing into something else like archer probably won''t happen (in my opinion). 

That seems to be redundant, I've heard Chrom can already use his spear in some of his gameplay.

[Jedi]

58 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

By that logic shouldn't that confirm the ability to change weapons as well?

 

That seems to be redundant, I've heard Chrom can already use his spear in some of his gameplay.

Do you mean change mid battle or change depending on what you feel like before the map starts (like Hyrule Warriors). Both of those types of switches exist in previous warriors games. 

The Spear is like barely existent in his Falchion moveset, him focusing on a full out Lance moveset is very possible imo

[Zangetsu]

6 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Do you mean change mid battle or change depending on what you feel like before the map starts (like Hyrule Warriors). Both of those types of switches exist in previous warriors games. 

The Spear is like barely existent in his Falchion moveset, him focusing on a full out Lance moveset is very possible imo

Well, both would be very much appreciated. I like to think it would be a nice way to change up the games if could do so I would love to experience this concept on a series I enjoy.

[Elieson]

On 7/9/2017 at 3:23 PM, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Ha. If they were, I wouldn't be (a) groaning every time I see a mission that locks me to Gauntlets Link, (b) struggling with said missions, and (c) complaining about it here. 

Sounds like the source of most of your strife comes from B, just saiyan. It's cool if you don't have fun or ease with what the game gives you, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad element of gameplay, it's just not for you.