7418529630 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Who do you think is the worst Fire Emblem villain in the series and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Køkø Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Worst as in writing? Or gravity of actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Garon's pretty hard to beat in terms of just being a bad, awful character. Manfroy's the worst when it comes to committing atrocious acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Validar literally just wants to summon a dragon to destroy the world for the sake of being evil. He's so generically, comically evil that I can think of literally nothing good to say about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HylianBelmont Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 OG Rudolf in Gaiden, IMO. Although at least he's a better character in Echoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 A tie between all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 In terms of badly execution, most villains in FE have some glaring flaw, but how much you can overlook it does vary between them. I just skipped the story in Fates and SoV, so my personal ire goes to Validar. (If he appears in FEW, I hope there is a Dark Dividing Validar stage that's good to grind for EXP on.) Of all evil sorcerer in FE, he makes the biggest mockery of the archetype (though Macbeth/Iago- doubly unworthy of his names I can infer, is also pretty bad). Gharnef and Jedah appeared in antiquated games and for that reason can be tolerated more, plus Gharnef has a touch of tragedy. Manfroy has near success on his side, and Veld can be tolerated knowing he is just a pawn of Manfroy. Nergal and Lyon each have an element of tragedy to them, and Ephraim route Lyon is fairly good. Our Light Sorcerer in Sephiran is amazing by FE standards (and Izuka if he counts is archetypal, but not bad). Validar would be better stripped of all seriousness and reduced to a purely comical villain parodic of the evil sorcerer archetype, as he is so awfully written as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) I could say Garon but lets be a little more unique. Of the newer games its probably Iago. I get what they were trying to do by making him such a complete loser but especially in Conquest it just made for a very unsatisfying narrative. Almost every time he does something terrible and no one, not even Xander can do anything about it because he keeps hiding behind Garon's skirt. In Birthright its okay because the complete loser keeps failing at everything he does but in Conquest he keeps succeeding, even if only in petty things like bullying Corrin and Xander. Of the older games I'd say Gharnef. Not because of what he is but because of what he still isn't. As of now Gharnef is Nergal without anything interesting about him, Manfroy without the success, and Jedah without his pretense of being reasonable. You could even argue incompetence is a deliberate trait in Validar which is one more trait then Gharnef has. Gharnef is just the generic dark mage with no niche of his own to fall into. He doesn't even have a personal hostility with Marth. He's been in five games now and FE warriors is likely to turn this into 6. He should be much more interesting at this point. Edited November 21, 2017 by Etrurian emperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slumber Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said: You could even argue incompetence is a deliberate trait in Validar which is one more trait then Gharnef has. Shitting on Validar somehow always results in the best comments around here. I do agree that Gharnef is probably the worst villain of classic FE. There really is just nothing to him. At least with villains like Garron and Validar, there's something intrinsically baffling to their actions and behaviors, and how people react to them, that make them a bit more entertaining. At least more interesting to discuss. Gharnef certainly isn't as bad as those two are on a very basic level, but his absence of... anything just makes him boring to talk about. So depending on your priorities, I could definitely see an argument for Gharnef. Edited June 21, 2017 by Slumber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 My usual reply to this thread is always this: Anankos is the only villain who renders two entire games inconsequential just by existing. I think it's hard to compete with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeus Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) I'll second Anankos, very few villains are bad to the point where by just being present they hurt the plot of their games, and Anankos is one such villain. His mere existence means the conflict between Hoshido and Nohr can't reach its full potential as any personal or political stakes get pushed to the side for slaying the dragon, he's responsible for a couple controversial plot points such as Garon (who has an interesting backstory, but is rendered moot because he's turned into a water blob), and isn't interesting enough to make up for any of his shortcomings. I do appreciate that they tried to give him backstory, but locking it behind DLC and having said DLC bring even more problems into the plot still does little to help his case and ultimately begs the question why he was added in the first place if they had to try to patch him up in such a messy manner. In general, he not only adds nothing to Fates' plot, he takes away a lot of what could've made it interesting, and that is a crime that no villain should commit to their story. Edited June 21, 2017 by Medeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstar Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Validar and most of the Fates' villains are the worst villains. Though at least Validar's motivations make more sense compared to some of the Fates' ones even if it's quite bad, since he is the leader of an evil cult like his ancestors who worships an evil dragon and was raised to become that type of leader. Iago is evil for no reasons even if Corrin joins Nohr and don't seem to like Xander for whatever reason as well. He doesn't seem to be interested in power especially that he is Garon's right hand but he is just interested to make people suffer and to kill Hoshidans for whatever reasons. He doesn't even have a motive for being evil compared to Validar which is pretty bad. Garon ordered him to make Corrin suffer but he was even doing to Corrin and other people even before Garon ordered him to do it. In Birthright he is a Saturday cartoon villain who failed all the time and in Conquest he is still a Saturday cartoon villain but he succeeds to make people suffer and no one does anything about it. Hans is what happened if you give a random bandit boss more screentimes and turned that bandit into a recurring villain. At least he wants to get more power so it would make him a lesser Caellach and more interesting that Iago but it's still pretty bad. Garon is Vigarde 2.0 with an actual dialogue but unlike Vigarde who doesn't ruin FE8's story, Garon is one of the main reasons why FE14's story is terrible. He doesn't have a personality besides "kill them all" and only exists just to make people cry and suffer like Iago and kicking cute kittens and puppies. He technically has his own motives for being the mastermind's puppet and doing whatever his master wants which makes sense but it is still handled poorly. Xander suffers as a Camus mainly thanks to the game's bad writing as well and by being an hypocrite and stupid most of the time. Finally we have Anankos who has his whole backstory locked behind 2 DLCs (3 DLCs if you count RV as a DLC) and who also bring more problems to the plot overall and makes you wonder why Birthright and Conquest even exist in the first place. That's a shame because he has an interesting backstory but him existing just ruin everything in the plot and is responsible for bad plot elements such as Garon. I guess that among them, both Iago and Anankos are the worst and both Garon and Xander get an honorable mention. Among the ones before the 3DS games, I would say the ones from FE5 such as Veld and Raydrik because they lack mainly screentimes and are quite forgettable. There are pretty much random bosses turned into main villains though I can at least forgive that since there are the pawns/minions of the main villains from FE4 and doesn't ruin FE5's story despite being the weakest elements in the story. Edited June 21, 2017 by Thunderstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuvy Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) G-to the-A-to the-R-O-N Edited June 21, 2017 by Tuvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 The Fates villains are pretty bad. They are boring at best and awful at worst. The only villain I found entertaining was that semi important ninja guy. But another villain I did't really liked was Valtome. I know IS wanted us to know the Begnion senators where scumbags, but we had enough evidence for that without a cartoonishly incompetent, self sabotaging jerk. Lekain seems to be a reasonably competent bad guy and he seems to have the senators in his pocket by the time of Radiant Dawn. I wonder why he allowed Valtome anywhere near the army when he randomly sends his own soldiers to death and is the only one responsible for Crimea not being neutral anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sasori said: The only villain I found entertaining was that semi important ninja guy. Kotaro had a lot of potential but of all the villains he and Corrin probably had the least valid reasons to turn on each other. He holds an enemy of both him and Corrin prisoner and for some reason Corrin objects to that. For an even weirder reason Kotaro then thinks that killing the entire Nohrian royal family is a totally reasonable reaction to that. I think Kotaro was supposed to be the Trabant or Neasalla of his game, the one who's willing to do whatever it takes to make his nation stronger but turning on Norh for no reason after already having betrayed Hoshido just seems self destructive. Edited June 21, 2017 by Etrurian emperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstar Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said: Kotaro had a lot of potential but of all the villains he and Corrin probably had the least valid reasons to turn on each other. He holds an enemy of both him and Corrin prisoner and for some reason Corrin objects to that. For an even weirder reason Kotaro then thinks that killing the entire Nohrian royal family is a totally reasonable reaction to that. I think Kotaro was supposed to be the Trabant or Neasalla of his game, the one who's willing to do whatever it takes to make his nation stronger but turning on Norh for no reason after already having betrayed Hoshido just seems self destructive. He said that not even Garon could stop him from building the new Kingdom of Mokushu so I guess he would have betrayed Garon after the war or at one point anyway. Kotaro told Corrin and the Nohrian siblings that he would tell Garon that they got accidentally killed by Hoshidans. Not sure if Garon would have believed him or not but he would have probably not cared anyway as long as he took over Hoshido. At first Kotaro didn't plan to kill them. It just happened because Corrin and Xander were not okay about him taking an hostage since for them taking an hostage and using it as a bargaining chip is not a good thing and they didn't like his tactics and methods, then Xander said he wanted to correct his behaviour by force if necessary so he probably didn't liked that sudden change of circumstances. Zola's methods were also the reasons why they attacked him. Kotaro and Zola had a lot of potential for minor villains sadly and they were better than the other FE14 villains though to be fair, it's not something hard to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Thunderstar said: At first Kotaro didn't plan to kill them. It just happened because Corrin and Xander were not okay about him taking an hostage since for them taking an hostage and using it as a bargaining chip is not a good thing and they didn't like his tactics and methods, then Xander said he wanted to correct his behaviour by force if necessary so he probably didn't liked that sudden change of circumstances. Zola's methods were also the reasons why they attacked him. Kotaro and Zola had a lot of potential for minor villains sadly and they were better than the other FE14 villains though to be fair, it's not something hard to do. But I think this is where it all gets very silly. Kagero is an enemy of the both of them. Its not quite the same with Zola who's false hospitality is basically considered a war crime even in the old days. Enemies getting captured is just a thing that happens in war. And even if Corrin did have a point then a true pragmatist would decide one hostage isn't a good hill to die on. Just letting her go seems smarter then risk angering a much stronger kingdom. I think zola of all people is the best villain in Fates. He even shows a tad of character development in Birthright where he expresses some fondness of Corrin. Edited June 21, 2017 by Etrurian emperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lau Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I don't like the Black Knight. I found his reason for killing Greil was weak, and then in RD, I just didn't really feel any sympathy for him. Does his master(to avoid spoilers), count as a villain? If he does, then the same goes for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 15 hours ago, Lautsuu said: Does his master(to avoid spoilers), count as a villain? If he does, then the same goes for him. Yes he does, given he orchestrated so much. I recoil at the idea that his master could be disliked- he's one of my personal favorite FE villains, but hey different people have different tastes. No problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Manfroy is both poorly written and despicable, so he gets my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Lautsuu said: I don't like the Black Knight. I found his reason for killing Greil was weak, and then in RD, I just didn't really feel any sympathy for him. Does his master(to avoid spoilers), count as a villain? If he does, then the same goes for him. honestly even though neither of their motivations excuse their actions, I feel like the black knight was worse because they still try to make you feel bad for him even after showing his ridiculous reason for killing greil it feels like you're almost supposed to forgive him for that, but the reason given is so bad it just makes him look like a petty idiot lehran did some awful things too, but at least they don't act like his actions were in any way justified you're supposed to pity him, but they don't try to make you believe he was ever in the right Edited June 25, 2017 by unique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lau Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Yes he does, given he orchestrated so much. I recoil at the idea that his master could be disliked- he's one of my personal favorite FE villains, but hey different people have different tastes. No problem with that. I can understand why you like him, I liked him in PoR before everything came out in RD, but...it all comes down to personal preference, and I respect that. Another reason why I have a problem with him is because of what he is, and I have this problem with Rafiel, too. They were supposed to be wiped out with only one survivor, yet they keep popping up. A minor problem, but it bugs me. He does get 10/10 for his design though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etrurian emperor Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Ah, yes. The black knight and his pathetic reason for killing Greil was a pretty poor showing. On one hand I think BK has a lot of positives that would prevent him from being the worst villain. He's undeniably baddass, has a very strong presence and some good story moments before it all comes crashing down. On the other hand BK being so strong before the reveal also makes him worse because I had such a high opinion of him before it was revealed he was a scumbag. As such I judge him harsher for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 For me it's less the reasoning behind why he killed Greil (he didn't want to kill him, but he didn't realize Greil wasn't at full power anymore and didn't hold back to compensate- the death was an accident) that is bothersome, though it is a problem for sure. My bigger issue is with his insecurity of "I don't want to be alone". Is is possible to be badass with a tragic backstory? Yes, and the reason behind the loneliness explains Ranulf's observations that the BK moves too fast for wearing heavy armor. But the way it was presented was less than ideal. Everything was going well for the BK in PoR and RD up to the reveal of his true identity and the revelations of the Tower. Though the reveal was logically placed (IS used logic for once- yay!), they could have had Ranulf call Ike over just before the start of Part 4 so he can tell him about the BK's true identity, but cut it right there so the player doesn't know. Thus maintaining logic in the characters' actions, and at the same time allowing for the element of dramatic surprise for the player later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Lekain, due to how much of a smug git he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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