NekoKnight's Review of the Story

[NekoKnight]

19 hours ago, David Boey said:

What if it was Celica's idea to try and heal Duma? Jedah would have a good reason to try and kill Celica then. Like you said, Duma being crazy is a good thing for him. Then when she reaches Duma Tower, in order to be rid of her, he suggests giving Duma her soul might work.

If Alm lacked compassion I feel he'd just be another Berkut. Rudolf's plan only makes sense if Alm is groomed to be somebody who can rule well on his own.

I have a number if ideas for what I'd change for a remake, but in regards to Alm being the exact same as Berkut, I think Alm could become a proper foil to him. Where Berkut cares only for power and ends up sacrificing his love to get more, Alm would learn compassion from Celica and avoid becoming a vengeful, hate filled person.

6 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Also, comparing Alm to Corrin is a low blow, mate. I think youll be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree to that comparison. Alm's not perfect. Yeah Clive making him leader of the Deliverence like that was weird af.  But this isnt Corn levels of bullshit. At least we had moments where Alm did junk to prove himself to the squad and Clive. Like rescuing Clair. Instead of Corrin who is just that special, no one questions them. 

Saying its near to Fates level is something i cant and wont agree with. 

You misunderstand, Loki. I thought I made it clear that SoV isn't Fates levels of atrocious, but it has similar flaws, on a smaller scale. It has flaws all over the place, but the two main comparisons I made were between Alm and Corrin (The Deliverance was hopelessly outmatched until Alm showed up and made them a juggernaut, literally overnight.) and Rudolf and Azura (a needlessly convoluted and immoral plan that the story tries to pass as moral and sensible.)

Your mention of Clair reminds me of another flaw. Lukas blames himself for Clair's capture because she was too inexperienced to handle command, but later he makes Alm their leader despite a lack of experience.

5 hours ago, Cat Villager said:

Oh, one minor thing about Rigel. It's supposed to be a land that respects strength but I don't think they ever mentioned any self-made people who rose up in ranks because of their abilities that have nothing to do with social status. Zeke is a very special snowflake case so he doesn't count. Berkut's attitude suggest that rigelian nobles have pretty similar views to zofians on the subject of social classes.
So, basically, not only rigelian commoners have to work hard for crops but Duma's philosophy has nothing that could reward them, not even better opportunities. You can be proud about being more hardworking than average zofian but it doesn't make you less hungry and cold. 

That's a good point. Rigel is no Ashnard!Daein, that's for sure.

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by NekoKnight

[DarkDefeater]

Well shoot, I just finished going through Thabes and a week ago, I defeated Duma. I was about to make a long post about the amazing final battles I had, how I struggled with Duma and Thabes because of minimal grinding, but I was able to triumph. I was about to post feelings of elation; how I loved the game, experience, and story....

This thread is wetter wet blanket than a sheet left in the washer for a week.

And the sad thing is...I can't defend it. I know there at times there should be a suspension of criticism, but this is a great deal....

Oh well, I suppose I will enjoy the game during my second playthrough....I will still enjoy the story and regard it as a cartoon....or a certain Star Wars movie.

Oh...Fates was my first FE game and I loved it....I can't wait to see the criticisms on that.

Edited June 24, 2017 by DarkDefeater

[Baldrick]

28 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

I have a number if ideas for what I'd change for a remake, but in regards to Alm being the exact same as Berkut, I think Alm could become a proper foil to him. Where Berkut cares only for power and ends up sacrificing his love to get more, Alm would learn compassion from Celica and avoid becoming a vengeful, hate filled person.

To be honest, I consider that the case already. From what we see of Alm's childhood, Celica had a big influence on him. Even though he hasn't seen her in years, he wants to take her back to Ram and leave the war to the Zofian princess.

Alm and Berkut were both raised to be emperor. But the manner in which they were raised led them to be very different people.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

That's a good point. Rigel is no Ashnard!Daein, that's for sure.

 

Not that we got the clearest feeling of what Ashnard's Daein was like. I mean we get some stuff, like Sothe's Base Conversation in C22 and Shinon's reason for defection, also the Black Knight (a total enigma Ashy welcomes in due to his strength). Yet I feel we could use more examples and anecdotes of Ashnard's meritocracy, maybe an orphan background for Petrine, or the replacement of some ugly old generic boss for a younger guy who rose to their current position solely due to Ashnard's policies (or we could just give this to the C19 boss Homasa). The fact guys like Tauroneo, Bryce, and Kasatai (miniboss in Ena and Tauroneo's chapter) are still around is proof Ashnard didn't suddenly replace the old order entirely either- he left at least those who could fight half decently intact.

And on a rather admittedly unrelated note, Ashnard's outright abandonment of Daein for Crimea, while proof he stands for his ideals above petty national ties, nonetheless constitutes his glaring flaw. Nothing in his plans of creating a world of chaos with the dark god unleashed demanded he sacrifice Daein to achieve it. He also needed to press faster and harder on Gallia- if he'd done it while Ike and Elincia were at sea or just newly arrived in Begnion, it would have made his ultimate goal easier to achieve.

[Thane]

6 hours ago, DarkDefeater said:

Oh...Fates was my first FE game and I loved it....I can't wait to see the criticisms on that.

Oh...oh dear. Well, if you haven't read any threads about that until now, at least Fates is no longer written about to the same degree, so that's always something.

[Etrurian emperor]

17 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

He also needed to press faster and harder on Gallia- if he'd done it while Ike and Elincia were at sea or just newly arrived in Begnion, it would have made his ultimate goal easier to achieve.

I don't think that was entirely an option. Its pointed out several times that the sea of trees would make an invasion of Galia a very difficult affair. Radiant dawn and the tellius history also point out that Begnion had a lot of trouble getting past its defensive terrain as well. Caineghis even says that for the moment he can defend his kingdom without the help of the other Laguz.

Daein is said to have the most elite army but its not exactly the superpower of Tellius. With what we know I don't think its likely that Daein could pull it off faster and harder then they did right after taking over Crimea already, especially since its implied Caineghis may be a tad stronger then Ashnard and the black knight. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think that was entirely an option. Its pointed out several times that the sea of trees would make an invasion of Galia a very difficult affair. Radiant dawn and the tellius history also point out that Begnion had a lot of trouble getting past its defensive terrain as well. Caineghis even says that for the moment he can defend his kingdom without the help of the other Laguz.

Daein is said to have the most elite army but its not exactly the superpower of Tellius. With what we know I don't think its likely that Daein could pull it off faster and harder then they did right after taking over Crimea already, especially since its implied Caineghis may be a tad stronger then Ashnard and the black knight.

I think I underestimated the sea of trees- I always thought a few squads of fire and thunder mages could burn it down. But I guess Serenes was just fragile, while Gallia's forests are probably denser, of bark more resilient to flames, and likely have a quick regrowth rate. And the sheer size of the forests might be too much to for anyone to raze completely, particularly if you never know when a giant cat is going pounce on your jugular while you're burning their homeland to the ground.

And looking at C11's script, Ashnard actually doesn't want Gallia to come out in full force at the time. Why? Logistics possibly, a desire to maximize chaos production over the long term, a need to excite Begnion more? Also, given Caineghis was able to scare off the BK, it has to be the case that Cain is comparable to the BK; and given Giffca is roughly Cain's equal and is able to stand up to Ashnard, it should be indeed wholly possible for Caineghis to best Ashnard in 1v1.

But enough with this tangent from the actual topic at hand.

[Bowbow]

About the whole "how long was Celica in Ram Village?" topic that people bring up a lot, while it's never explicitly stated, little bits of info help clear up a lot of stuff . When you liberate Zofia Castle in chapter 1, the woman inside says this:

"They say all of King Lima’s children are dead now, so they do. Oh, but I’ve heard tale that one of ’em still lives… Her name was Anthiese. PRINCESS Anthiese! Juicy bit’a gossip that, eh? Story goes, the villa she lived in was set to blaze some ten or so years back. Folks thought she burned to cinders, but you know how tongues like to wag. Could be some brave soul up and saved her. Wonder where she ended up if so?"

If this is true, then the whole incident where she and Mycen escape Slayde trying to murder her happened about 3 years before the prologue (since after the prologue Alm and Celica are separated for 7 years), which means the maximum amount of time Celica was in Ram Village was 3 years. Then it boils down to when Mycen brought her to Ram. Given that he had to take care of Alm as well, I doubt he was doing it in separate places. So at the very least Celica stayed in his life for 1 year, 3 max.

Yes, there's Gray's line where he says Celica recently moved in, but that can easily be chalked up to them not really knowing of her until later. Based on Celica's and Alm's prologue lines (and later on in the game via commentary from others), Celica tends to keep her emotions and problems to herself unless she's close with someone. So we have young Celica, who is fresh off recovering from a brutal murder attempt, is initially unwilling to step outside and talk to the other kids. A lot of children who experience traumatic shit like that don't easily recover and I can buy that she was a shut-in initially. But then later we know by the time of the prologue that Celica is on first name basis with Alm, Faye. Gray, Tobin and Kliff. So what happened in between? Alm.

What Alm does to get Celica to open up is understated. He takes the time and puts in effort to get to know this traumatized girl (who insulted him the first time they met) which isn't easy. It helps that Alm's slightly isolated upbringing made him curious about her as well. And it's obvious that she did appreciate all of his effort to be friendly since she likes to be around Alm to the point where their other friends feel a little jealous. Also, because of Celica's actual identity as Zofian royalty, I can also buy that Mycen purposefully hid her identity away from the others until he deemed it safe for her to roam around and interact in her identity as the new girl that "just moved in" like Gray says.

[Thane]

33 minutes ago, Bowbow said:

When you liberate Zofia Castle in chapter 1, the woman inside says this:

We've been discussing that though. It's not that we don't know about what she says, it's that it's conflicting with how the prologue is written.

36 minutes ago, Bowbow said:

Yes, there's Gray's line where he says Celica recently moved in, but that can easily be chalked up to them not really knowing of her until later.

No, no it cannot. What does Mycen have to gain from hiding Celica away? Why do you think he gave her that name in the first place? So that she could try blending in as best she could without arousing suspicion, I'd wager. 

Even if she were a shut-in and didn't go outside to begin with, that wouldn't mean the other villagers in that tiny village wouldn't know about her - it'd be borderline impossible for them not to. This would also mean that Alm would not say anything about her to Gray and the rest of his friends, and if Alm were always at Celica's side, they'd know. 

I find it hard to believe Mycen rode in one night, hid Celica away, and she remained hidden for perhaps years in order to warrant that comment from Gray.

53 minutes ago, Bowbow said:

What Alm does to get Celica to open up is understated.

If so, that's because the game tells us about this rather than showing us, and only in one quick scene, I might add. This is supposed to be the foundation of their entire relationship which drives the story forward. I don't doubt them becoming good friends or anything, I just don't buy two 10-year-olds becoming soulmates that fast and not changing in the slightest as they become teenagers, and even if I did, the game doesn't do a good job of actually showing their relationship being that good.

Anyway, the reason why this topic is debated is because a nameless NPC provides solid numbers, while Gray, one of the original villagers who grew up in the village with her, says she just moved in. It just doesn't add up

[Cat Villager]

I'm not sure if people need to use logical explanations for Alm and Celica's immediate attraction when the game more or less states that they are destined to be together. I don't remember the exact text but Halcyon says something about Alm and Celica's souls being a pair. So yeah, it's not a very popular cliche and many consider it to be bad writing but I don't think people need to go on huge rants to justify and add realism to their romance. However, I do think that Celica was living in Ram Village for at least 3-4 months. Seems to be enough time to accustomize, make some friends and leave an impression on other adult villagers.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Cat Villager

[Explodium]

Anyone else think it would have worked better if Desaix was portrayed as more of a "Villain with good publicity, presenting himself as some sort of Rebel Crusader but in reality he is just a huge butthole solely out to advance himself" sort of guy? Honestly, all things considered with how Lima ran the kingdom, whipping up insurrection wouldn't be hard.

In my opinion this would also give Fernand a better reason to defect. Rather than betray his friend and his nation because he's a classist dick, he was hesitant to fight to preserve a system that got his family killed because it was partially the crown's fault that things were so bad in the first place, but he only stayed because his best friend was in charge. When he put some random schmuck in charge, that was the last straw, so he joined the rebels.

Thoughts?

[Bowbow]

13 hours ago, Thane said:

Anyway, the reason why this topic is debated is because a nameless NPC provides solid numbers

Not really, it's merely a rumor according to the woman in the castle. It's not like she's 100% confident. Either way, the rumor still matches up with the events that Celica was in Ram for at least a year.

11 hours ago, Cat Villager said:

I'm not sure if people need to use logical explanations for Alm and Celica's immediate attraction when the game more or less states that they are destined to be together. I don't remember the exact text but Halcyon says something about Alm and Celica's souls being a pair. So yeah, it's not a very popular cliche and many consider it to be bad writing but I don't think people need to go on huge rants to justify and add realism to their romance. However, I do think that Celica was living in Ram Village for at least 3-4 months. Seems to be enough time to accustomize, make some friends and leave an impression on other adult villagers.

Alm and Celica do have a basis for friendship and being close. I'll admit it's a bit tropey though but it's ok because "they didn't stay long enough to make an impact."

[NekoKnight]

5 hours ago, Explodium said:

Anyone else think it would have worked better if Desaix was portrayed as more of a "Villain with good publicity, presenting himself as some sort of Rebel Crusader but in reality he is just a huge butthole solely out to advance himself" sort of guy? Honestly, all things considered with how Lima ran the kingdom, whipping up insurrection wouldn't be hard.

In my opinion this would also give Fernand a better reason to defect. Rather than betray his friend and his nation because he's a classist dick, he was hesitant to fight to preserve a system that got his family killed because it was partially the crown's fault that things were so bad in the first place, but he only stayed because his best friend was in charge. When he put some random schmuck in charge, that was the last straw, so he joined the rebels.

Thoughts?

I'm a little confused here. If the old order was responsible for the death of his family, why would he be opposed to Clive's group who his going to change it?

I think I would have preferred Fernand defect because Clive was choosing risky moves in order to defend all the peasants, which Fernand opposes because he doesn't want to risk his life for people he thinks are ungrateful and duplicitous.

[Explodium]

1 minute ago, NekoKnight said:

I'm a little confused here. If the old order was responsible for the death of his family, why would he be opposed to Clive's group who his going to change it?

I think I would have preferred Fernand defect because Clive was choosing risky moves in order to defend all the peasants, which Fernand opposes because he doesn't want to risk his life for people he thinks are ungrateful and duplicitous.

Well, it's because it's along the lines of Loyalists vs. Rebels, Clive is fighting for the loyalists, Desaix is leading the rebels, though he's only doing it for his own advancement, and Fernand is only sticking around because Clive is in charge.

[NekoKnight]

4 minutes ago, Explodium said:

Well, it's because it's along the lines of Loyalists vs. Rebels, Clive is fighting for the loyalists, Desaix is leading the rebels, though he's only doing it for his own advancement, and Fernand is only sticking around because Clive is in charge.

Okay, that makes sense. I was confused because in the game, Clive's group are the rebels and Desaix represents the standing order (he has all the nobility on his side).

[Thane]

7 hours ago, Bowbow said:

Not really, it's merely a rumor according to the woman in the castle. It's not like she's 100% confident. Either way, the rumor still matches up with the events that Celica was in Ram for at least a year.

What are the other facts?

7 hours ago, Bowbow said:

Alm and Celica do have a basis for friendship and being close. I'll admit it's a bit tropey though but it's ok because "they didn't stay long enough to make an impact."

Alm and Celica have a basis for a friendship for sure, the problem is that they fall in love as kids and it remains the same as they reach their late teens and that we hear a lot more about them talking about each other, rather than seeing them together.

[NekoKnight]

I was considering making a second thread for it, but considering this board is a bit slow, it might just be better to put it here. Taking into consideration the flaws I see with the plot, here is what I would do if I rewrote SoV.
 

Spoiler

 

Before the start of the game (information you won’t learn until Chapter 4), Rudolf learns of a prophesy that Duma will go crazy and lead both Rigel and Zofia to ruin. He knows that Duma will possess him, and turn his body into an avatar of Duma’s fury, so he gives Alm to Mycen to be raised in secret and eventually be able to stop the Rudolf.  This is to make Celica’s dream consistent with reality and to toss out the nonsensical bits of Rudolf’s “Step 1. Start a war. Step 2. ??? Step 3. Profit!” plan.

The prologue plays out the same (but Celica will be noted to have lived there for years) with Celica having to flee Ram village after she is discovered by Slayde. Chapter 1 begins and Lukas shows up to recruit Mycen. He tells him he’ll wait a day for Mycen to consider but before he can accept or refuse, Berkut attacks Ram village (because he heard Mycen was there and wanted to test his ability). Berkut kills Mycen and Alm joins up with Lukas to get vengeance on Rigel. The story continues with Lukas and friends making their way north to the Deliverance hideout. Clive fills Alm in on all the dastardly things Desaix has been up to and asserts his intentions to protect the common people. Clair and Fernand are present. Clive leads them on a number of risky missions to defend the common folk from Desaix’s men, one of which gets Clair captured and nearly killed. Fernand is furious that they would risk their lives for people he considers ungrateful and untrustworthy (distrust and hatred brewed from his family getting killed). Clive insists that they need commoner support to win the war and makes Alm one of his captains. This is the final straw for Fernand who decides to leave the Deliverance, and start his own resistance group that fights for the interests of the nobility (and against Desaix and Rigel). In this version, Desaix is feared and hated by many of the nobles, so they join Fernand. Chapter 1 ends with the Deliverance retaking ZofiaCastle through some crafty means.

Chapter 2 stays mostly the same but rather than Celica getting pissed at Alm for stupid reasons, they have a happy reunion and join forces.

Chapter 3 begins and Alm and Celica’s group starts to liberate Zofia. While Clive leads them to take out Desaix, Fernand is leading his group to fight Berkut and the Rigelian invaders. After Desaix is defeated they find the royal sword and don’t know anything about it besides Alm strangely being the only one who can wield it. Clive considers the mistakes he made which nearly cost the lives of his sister and girlfriend and requests that Alm (who has been doing a lot to prove himself) take the leadership of the group.

Throughout the chapter Alm and Celica start to show their ideological differences, with Alm desiring vengeance and wanting to take the defense of Zofia into his own hands, and Celica insisting on compassion and relying on Mila to save them. Celica could say something like “Do you think you can build peace on top of a mountain of corpses? You can soak the fields with blood but that won’t make the crops grow.” And Alm could counter with something like “How can we till the fields if we allow Rigel to put our people to the sword? I’d rather make the corpses than become one.” Then they have their big fight and Celica’s group breaks away to go find Mila.

Near the end of Chapter 3, the Deliverance comes across a mortally wounded Fernand who tells them Berkut’s forces greatly outnumbered his own and Fernand got all his men killed. He apologizes to Clive for dividing their strength because of his pride and anger, and dies. Alm’s forces drive out the remaining Rigelians and Celica’s group discover that Mila was sealed and kidnapped by Rudolf.

Chapter 4 begins with Alm and Celica making their respective journeys into Rigel. Both Celica and Alm deeply regret how their relationship fell apart and endeavor to take the other’s values into consideration (the value of strength and compassion). As Alm heads into Rigel and defeats Berkut at the border (who then retreats). Alm wonders why driving the Rigelians out of Zofia was as easy as it was considering their famed military prowess. We learn in Chapter 4 that Duma has been sending Terrors to attack the Rigelian people in order to toughen them up, and half their forces are devoted to just warding off monster attacks. Alm is still cold to the Rigelians but he tries to (while thinking about Celica) be compassionate to people he can acknowledge weren’t personally responsible for the attack on Zofia.

Berkut is pissed about losing to Alm and reluctantly accepts the magic mirror from Nuibaba. Alm and Berkut fight once again and Berkut uses the mirror. Alm’s group looks doomed but suddenly the magic is dispelled by someone (we find out later Jedah did it at Celica’s request). Alm is about to execute Berkut when Rinea stops him, begging for Alm to spare Berkut. She explains that Rudolf started the war and Berkut had no choice but to obey. In a key character moment, Alm forgives Berkut for killing Mycen and Berkut flees back to RigelCastle. Once Alm gets to Rigel Castle, he defeats Rudolf. Rudolf regains his sanity as he is dying and explains that Alm is his son and destined to save the world. Alm can’t believe it but Massena confirms it by telling him that the sword he carries is proof that he is Rigelian royalty. Alm learns through Massena that Rudolf wanted to free mankind from the influence of the gods. Alm heads to Duma tower to deal with Jedah and find Celica.

Celica’s Chapter 4 follows a similar course but in this version Jedah does his best to build trust with her. He gives her the same bargain and suggests that she can save the people she cares about (Alm) and her country if she offers her soul to Duma. Celica and the others are troubled by this but they decide that they need to rescue Mila so they have no choice to go to Duma tower. Jedah warns them that many of the Duma faithful will want to consume her soul for themselves (to get awesome magic or something) so she’ll have to deal with them on the way to the tower. Celica wonders if she can trust Jedah considering all the other Duma faithful are evil, but Jedah shows her a vision of Alm fighting Berkut and dispels Nuibaba’s magic, to show her he has good intentions. Once they get to the tower, Jedah separates Celica from her friends and reveals that he never had a way of returning Mila as Mila sealed herself. He also tells her that her soul won’t reverse Duma’s regeneration, rather it will just empower him. Jedah takes Celica’s soul and offers it to Duma.

Chapter 5 begins and we see Berkut having a mental breakdown. Berkut has been humiliated time and time again, losing to Alm, having to resort to Nuibaba’s magic, being protected by Rinea and finally learning that he was never going to become emperor. Rinea tells him that she never cared about that, and Berkut interprets that as her being party to Rudolf’s deception. Berkut sacrifices her to Duma and is later defeated by Alm for the last time. Alm makes his way through the tower and kills witch!Celica. Mila revives her and gives Alm the Falcion, explaining she didn’t want him to kill Duma before, but now understands that it’s necessary. Alm and Celica fight Jedah one last time. Jedah is defeated and begs Celica for mercy, but Celica kills him (taking a page from Alm’s book) saying that her friends will never be safe if Jedah continues to live. The last map is fighting Duma and after he is defeated, he tells Alm and Celica about how Valentia needs a balance of Duma’s strength and Mila’s kindness. Alm and Celica marry and together they try to bridge the gap between Rigel and Zofia. They acknowledge it will be a difficult battle, but they are determined.

Thoughts? 

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by NekoKnight

[SoulWeaver]

What if instead you had Celica somehow end up meeting up with Fernand's group after she and Alm separate? She could offer to help him defeat Berkut, trying to take the page out of Alm's book, but when Berkut proves too strong Jedah intervenes as part of his plot to show he is trustworthy and warps them near the desert, perhaps to a village in the middle of trying to defend itself from Grieth's thugs. The plot would then more smoothly lead into fighting and defeating Grieth as Celica realizes that in some cases there isn't time to wait for Mila to sort it out, though she would still believe that such cases are few and far between.

Next bit might be just me, but I'd probably find some way to save Sonya's sisters too because broken families are just depressing.

I'd also love for Celica to pick the Royal Sword up too so Tobin looks even more like an idiot for saying he couldn't budge it, but I think it'd be trickier to just pass off as oh weird how'd that happen.

[Explodium]

Say, just a thought I had: what if instead of Berkut being the nephew of Rudolf, he's a self-made man of sorts? Born to a poor family, climbed the ranks of the Rigellian army though sheer strength and force of will, and eventually was name successor of Rigel due to his accomplishments and because Rudolf had no heirs (that the public knew about). He completely subscribes to the Rigellian philosophy of might makes right, hardness breeds excellence, etc, and is a very proud individual. Eventually, when Alm was revealed as the prince of Rigel, it completely drove him off the deep end, not only because some random upstart from some backwater stole the throne from under him, but it completely went against Rigellian values. Here he was, born in the slums, and clawed his way to the top through sheer determination and strength, and here this guy comes by and renders all of his achievements pointless because Alm was born to the right father. Berkut is not a happy camper.

Thoughts?

[Jotari]

The whole magic must defeat magic reference is amusingly apt given Cantor's high evade in this game.

[Explodium]

On 6/27/2017 at 10:23 AM, NekoKnight said:

I was considering making a second thread for it, but considering this board is a bit slow, it might just be better to put it here. Taking into consideration the flaws I see with the plot, here is what I would do if I rewrote SoV.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Before the start of the game (information you won’t learn until Chapter 4), Rudolf learns of a prophesy that Duma will go crazy and lead both Rigel and Zofia to ruin. He knows that Duma will possess him, and turn his body into an avatar of Duma’s fury, so he gives Alm to Mycen to be raised in secret and eventually be able to stop the Rudolf.  This is to make Celica’s dream consistent with reality and to toss out the nonsensical bits of Rudolf’s “Step 1. Start a war. Step 2. ??? Step 3. Profit!” plan.

The prologue plays out the same (but Celica will be noted to have lived there for years) with Celica having to flee Ram village after she is discovered by Slayde. Chapter 1 begins and Lukas shows up to recruit Mycen. He tells him he’ll wait a day for Mycen to consider but before he can accept or refuse, Berkut attacks Ram village (because he heard Mycen was there and wanted to test his ability). Berkut kills Mycen and Alm joins up with Lukas to get vengeance on Rigel. The story continues with Lukas and friends making their way north to the Deliverance hideout. Clive fills Alm in on all the dastardly things Desaix has been up to and asserts his intentions to protect the common people. Clair and Fernand are present. Clive leads them on a number of risky missions to defend the common folk from Desaix’s men, one of which gets Clair captured and nearly killed. Fernand is furious that they would risk their lives for people he considers ungrateful and untrustworthy (distrust and hatred brewed from his family getting killed). Clive insists that they need commoner support to win the war and makes Alm one of his captains. This is the final straw for Fernand who decides to leave the Deliverance, and start his own resistance group that fights for the interests of the nobility (and against Desaix and Rigel). In this version, Desaix is feared and hated by many of the nobles, so they join Fernand. Chapter 1 ends with the Deliverance retaking ZofiaCastle through some crafty means.

Chapter 2 stays mostly the same but rather than Celica getting pissed at Alm for stupid reasons, they have a happy reunion and join forces.

Chapter 3 begins and Alm and Celica’s group starts to liberate Zofia. While Clive leads them to take out Desaix, Fernand is leading his group to fight Berkut and the Rigelian invaders. After Desaix is defeated they find the royal sword and don’t know anything about it besides Alm strangely being the only one who can wield it. Clive considers the mistakes he made which nearly cost the lives of his sister and girlfriend and requests that Alm (who has been doing a lot to prove himself) take the leadership of the group.

Throughout the chapter Alm and Celica start to show their ideological differences, with Alm desiring vengeance and wanting to take the defense of Zofia into his own hands, and Celica insisting on compassion and relying on Mila to save them. Celica could say something like “Do you think you can build peace on top of a mountain of corpses? You can soak the fields with blood but that won’t make the crops grow.” And Alm could counter with something like “How can we till the fields if we allow Rigel to put our people to the sword? I’d rather make the corpses than become one.” Then they have their big fight and Celica’s group breaks away to go find Mila.

Near the end of Chapter 3, the Deliverance comes across a mortally wounded Fernand who tells them Berkut’s forces greatly outnumbered his own and Fernand got all his men killed. He apologizes to Clive for dividing their strength because of his pride and anger, and dies. Alm’s forces drive out the remaining Rigelians and Celica’s group discover that Mila was sealed and kidnapped by Rudolf.

Chapter 4 begins with Alm and Celica making their respective journeys into Rigel. Both Celica and Alm deeply regret how their relationship fell apart and endeavor to take the other’s values into consideration (the value of strength and compassion). As Alm heads into Rigel and defeats Berkut at the border (who then retreats). Alm wonders why driving the Rigelians out of Zofia was as easy as it was considering their famed military prowess. We learn in Chapter 4 that Duma has been sending Terrors to attack the Rigelian people in order to toughen them up, and half their forces are devoted to just warding off monster attacks. Alm is still cold to the Rigelians but he tries to (while thinking about Celica) be compassionate to people he can acknowledge weren’t personally responsible for the attack on Zofia.

Berkut is pissed about losing to Alm and reluctantly accepts the magic mirror from Nuibaba. Alm and Berkut fight once again and Berkut uses the mirror. Alm’s group looks doomed but suddenly the magic is dispelled by someone (we find out later Jedah did it at Celica’s request). Alm is about to execute Berkut when Rinea stops him, begging for Alm to spare Berkut. She explains that Rudolf started the war and Berkut had no choice but to obey. In a key character moment, Alm forgives Berkut for killing Mycen and Berkut flees back to RigelCastle. Once Alm gets to Rigel Castle, he defeats Rudolf. Rudolf regains his sanity as he is dying and explains that Alm is his son and destined to save the world. Alm can’t believe it but Massena confirms it by telling him that the sword he carries is proof that he is Rigelian royalty. Alm learns through Massena that Rudolf wanted to free mankind from the influence of the gods. Alm heads to Duma tower to deal with Jedah and find Celica.

Celica’s Chapter 4 follows a similar course but in this version Jedah does his best to build trust with her. He gives her the same bargain and suggests that she can save the people she cares about (Alm) and her country if she offers her soul to Duma. Celica and the others are troubled by this but they decide that they need to rescue Mila so they have no choice to go to Duma tower. Jedah warns them that many of the Duma faithful will want to consume her soul for themselves (to get awesome magic or something) so she’ll have to deal with them on the way to the tower. Celica wonders if she can trust Jedah considering all the other Duma faithful are evil, but Jedah shows her a vision of Alm fighting Berkut and dispels Nuibaba’s magic, to show her he has good intentions. Once they get to the tower, Jedah separates Celica from her friends and reveals that he never had a way of returning Mila as Mila sealed herself. He also tells her that her soul won’t reverse Duma’s regeneration, rather it will just empower him. Jedah takes Celica’s soul and offers it to Duma.

Chapter 5 begins and we see Berkut having a mental breakdown. Berkut has been humiliated time and time again, losing to Alm, having to resort to Nuibaba’s magic, being protected by Rinea and finally learning that he was never going to become emperor. Rinea tells him that she never cared about that, and Berkut interprets that as her being party to Rudolf’s deception. Berkut sacrifices her to Duma and is later defeated by Alm for the last time. Alm makes his way through the tower and kills witch!Celica. Mila revives her and gives Alm the Falcion, explaining she didn’t want him to kill Duma before, but now understands that it’s necessary. Alm and Celica fight Jedah one last time. Jedah is defeated and begs Celica for mercy, but Celica kills him (taking a page from Alm’s book) saying that her friends will never be safe if Jedah continues to live. The last map is fighting Duma and after he is defeated, he tells Alm and Celica about how Valentia needs a balance of Duma’s strength and Mila’s kindness. Alm and Celica marry and together they try to bridge the gap between Rigel and Zofia. They acknowledge it will be a difficult battle, but they are determined.

Thoughts? 

 

Slow board indeed.

Another thought I had.

What about instead of Alm's brand signifying that he is the Chosen One who is going to save the world, what if it was something like Alm is the Chosen One who is destined to be Duma incarnate and roflstomp the world? And Rudolf had him sent away and had him raised away from Rigel in order to avert that? In my opinion, inverting the meaning of the brand really patches up the trampled "We are not determined by the status of our birth, but by our actions" theme, by turning it into a "Screw Destiny!" thing.

Also it adds some consistency to Walhart's actions, because I'm pretty sure he was inspired by Alm in his whole "Damn the gods and damn their destinies" thing.

[NekoKnight]

On 06/28/2017 at 1:41 PM, SoulWeaver said:

Next bit might be just me, but I'd probably find some way to save Sonya's sisters too because broken families are just depressing.

I'd also love for Celica to pick the Royal Sword up too so Tobin looks even more like an idiot for saying he couldn't budge it, but I think it'd be trickier to just pass off as oh weird how'd that happen.

I'd be satisfied with Sonya finding away to reverse the witch transformation even if she couldn't save her sisters in time. Her ending would be bittersweet instead of just bitter.

If Alm and Celica traveled together in C3 like I suggested, I could see that happening. Then again, it being the Royal Sword is still a dead giveaway to the player even if the characters themselves don't realize what it means.

5 hours ago, Explodium said:

Slow board indeed.

Another thought I had.

What about instead of Alm's brand signifying that he is the Chosen One who is going to save the world, what if it was something like Alm is the Chosen One who is destined to be Duma incarnate and roflstomp the world? And Rudolf had him sent away and had him raised away from Rigel in order to avert that? In my opinion, inverting the meaning of the brand really patches up the trampled "We are not determined by the status of our birth, but by our actions" theme, by turning it into a "Screw Destiny!" thing.

Also it adds some consistency to Walhart's actions, because I'm pretty sure he was inspired by Alm in his whole "Damn the gods and damn their destinies" thing.

Boards aren't slow, it's the people who are slow.

Yeah, I could see that working, maybe Celica would get the same thing from Mila but Rudolf seals Mila before it can happen. Alm and Celica might represent breaking away from the direct destinies of the gods, and the people of Rigel and Zofia breaking away from the values of the gods.

On 06/28/2017 at 2:02 PM, Explodium said:

Say, just a thought I had: what if instead of Berkut being the nephew of Rudolf, he's a self-made man of sorts? Born to a poor family, climbed the ranks of the Rigellian army though sheer strength and force of will, and eventually was name successor of Rigel due to his accomplishments and because Rudolf had no heirs (that the public knew about). He completely subscribes to the Rigellian philosophy of might makes right, hardness breeds excellence, etc, and is a very proud individual. Eventually, when Alm was revealed as the prince of Rigel, it completely drove him off the deep end, not only because some random upstart from some backwater stole the throne from under him, but it completely went against Rigellian values. Here he was, born in the slums, and clawed his way to the top through sheer determination and strength, and here this guy comes by and renders all of his achievements pointless because Alm was born to the right father. Berkut is not a happy camper.

Thoughts?

This is pretty good too. I'm a little skeptical on "No heirs = new order" as SoV shows. Both Zofia and Rigel have existing nobility, so even if the king had no living heirs, someone would be able to trace their family back to the royal line and make a claim on the throne. The only way to avert this for Rigel (besides Rudolf formally adopting Berkut) would be to establish that Rigel is dynastic but that they still respect the right of conquest for someone becoming the new emperor (mandate of heaven and all that). Zofia probably wouldn't do that, so Desaix should claim some shared lineage with Lima to legitimize his takeover.

On 06/28/2017 at 4:38 PM, Jotari said:

The whole magic must defeat magic reference is amusingly apt given Cantor's high evade in this game.

The thought had crossed my mind, lol.

Edited July 3, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Jotari]

I don't think having Celica and Alm travel together in Chapter 3 would work. It would be a pretty major departure from the original game, would create all sorts of problems with the map balancing mess up the dual gameplay pattern. I think instead of giving them a stronger connection, they should have doubled down and emphasis the strangers aspect more. Make their interactions more awkward as they're two people that had a strong connection but a very long time ago. They're different people now so the promises they made shouldn't need to apply and yet they do. I don't mind them getting together at the end but it should be more of a "re-union" rather than a love that didn't fade. Even give them other potential love interests (I'm not what you'd describe as a shipper by any metric but I could completely envision Celica having feelings for the rugged Saber) that serve to show them exactly what they do like about each other.

[NekoKnight]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

I don't think having Celica and Alm travel together in Chapter 3 would work. It would be a pretty major departure from the original game, would create all sorts of problems with the map balancing mess up the dual gameplay pattern. I think instead of giving them a stronger connection, they should have doubled down and emphasis the strangers aspect more. Make their interactions more awkward as they're two people that had a strong connection but a very long time ago. They're different people now so the promises they made shouldn't need to apply and yet they do. I don't mind them getting together at the end but it should be more of a "re-union" rather than a love that didn't fade. Even give them other potential love interests (I'm not what you'd describe as a shipper by any metric but I could completely envision Celica having feelings for the rugged Saber) that serve to show them exactly what they do like about each other.

The problem is that the game wants them to be linked together. They are the children of fates, soul-mates, people who represent two parts (the values of Duma and Mila) of a whole (the unified Valentia). The relationship you're describing is essentially what happens at the end of Chapter 2. Celica longed to see Alm for years but found he grew up to be a different person than she imagined. Had their relationship ended there, I could believe that, but the game demands that they still be involved with each other. You can either develop that relationship by having them spend time together or abandon it. Making them strangers removes all of the themes they want to include.

[Jotari]

30 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

The problem is that the game wants them to be linked together. They are the children of fates, soul-mates, people who represent two parts (the values of Duma and Mila) of a whole (the unified Valentia). The relationship you're describing is essentially what happens at the end of Chapter 2. Celica longed to see Alm for years but found he grew up to be a different person than she imagined. Had their relationship ended there, I could believe that, but the game demands that they still be involved with each other. You can either develop that relationship by having them spend time together or abandon it. Making them strangers removes all of the themes they want to include.

I don't mean make them actual strangers. Just focus more on how the time apart has actually affected their feelings towards each other. I don't mind them being fated soul mates, but I just think their relationship and the writing would be much stronger if they weren't unquistionably soul mates. A little bit of doubt and actual examination of themselves would go a long way rather than what we have. Which in practice is next to nothing.