Starting Radiant Dawn... again!

[Carter]

Three years ago, I started playing Radiant Dawn. But I eventually gave up and just stopped playing it, until today.

I don't know why I stopped, though by looking at my old topics where I complained a lot, it's probably because I thought my units were too weak. Coming back after three years, I have to admit, it does feel a little slow-paced and old fashioned, but I still like it. This time I'm paying much more attention to the story and characters, which I didn't do back then.

I'm currently on Part 1, Chapter 5.

And my thoughts so far:

• Laura sucks ass. I don't mean her personality, but I had to keep resetting because she had the nerve to keep dying! Dodge something, why dontcha? She's good for healing though.
• I've heard people don't really like Micaiah. I personally, however, think she's great.
• Meg is deceivingly weak. I get that she's a child, but I thought being a knight would at least give her some defense. Maybe I was wrong.

Yeah! I haven't gotten very far, but I'm gonna try to continue over the summer!

[Troykv]

19 minutes ago, Carter said:

Three years ago, I started playing Radiant Dawn. But I eventually gave up and just stopped playing it, until today.

I don't know why I stopped, though by looking at my old topics where I complained a lot, it's probably because I thought my units were too weak. Coming back after three years, I have to admit, it does feel a little slow-paced and old fashioned, but I still like it. This time I'm paying much more attention to the story and characters, which I didn't do back then.

I'm currently on Part 1, Chapter 5.

And my thoughts so far:

• Laura sucks ass. I don't mean her personality, but I had to keep resetting because she had the nerve to keep dying! Dodge something, why dontcha? She's good for healing though.
• I've heard people don't really like Micaiah. I personally, however, think she's great.
• Meg is deceivingly weak. I get that she's a child, but I thought being a knight would at least give her some defense. Maybe I was wrong.

Yeah! I haven't gotten very far, but I'm gonna try to continue over the summer!

Laura has a very weak start... It's a shame leveling with Stave Users is so slow in this game (unless you're Micaiah with Physic and Paragon), because her growths are actually very good.

I love to see you quite like Micaiah; I think your opinion about her will be proven when you play the whole game (specially the moments where she does the... weirdest things).

Meg is a very strange unit... technically she would be a fast knight, the problem... she has a weak start and moves slowly... If she was a Pegasus Knight you would probably like her more :P

[Anacybele]

People don't like Micaiah because she's a terrible unit and has some Sue traits (though she's probably not a full blown Sue). She's slow and very squishy. She can barely take a single hit from anything (and I personally think she's a terribly written character. I can't stand her). And her third tier promotion doesn't come until VERY late in the game. Think of her as a magical Roy. She's only good for healing, really. It sucks that she's forced in Part 4 Endgame. Same with Sothe, because while he's alright early on, he's pretty meh later. For reference, I think Sanaki is required for that chapter too, so make sure she's leveled enough.

The DB in general suck and just don't get enough chapters to shine. You're much better off taking some of the Greil Mercs into the tower in Part 4 Endgame.

And yeah, Meg has weird growths for an Armor.

Word of advice: DON'T MISS OUT ON HAAR. He's very valuable in Part 2 Endgame! I should know, because I accidentally missed him in my first playthrough, and Part 2 Endgame was a pain in the ass. But when I got him next time around, it was definitely easier. So yeah, make sure you recruit Haar! He'll show up in an early Part 2, and you have to have Marcia talk to him.

Also, don't use Tormod's party. They appear in Part 1, but then disappear until the middle of Part 4 for some reason. So they come back way underleveled.

RD is pretty much just abusing Ike's group, Haar, and laguz royals, really. It's pretty unbalanced.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Anacybele

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

People don't like Micaiah because she's a terrible unit and has some Sue traits (though she's probably not a full blown Sue).

I generally disagree with the later assertion.

Spoiler

For Part 1, yeah she might be a little too perfect, but even then she spares Jarod after 1-9 and realizes immediately afterwards she screwed up. And in Part 3, she is perfect no more- two surprise attacks (3-6 and 3-12) is all the good she does- the rest is failure after failure with her clinging to Part 1 accomplishments to maintain control. In Part 4, she herself doesn't do too much- people still praise her for sure (and perhaps this is excessive), but she's reduced to a vessel for Yune ~50% of the time.

She actually has to deal with defeat and her authority being undermined- what other FE lords are faced with these issues? Micaiah gets points in my book for her tenacity in trying to keep things together with they go to hell in late Part 3. She doesn't succeed with flying colors at resolving these problems, but she clearly tries her best, and her failure is understandable.

As for gameplay, she isn't that bad, better than Roy for sure. Healing in Part 3 and Part 4 is nice (her being forced guarantees you at least 1 healer for 4 Final), and Thani gives her a decent chip. She is fragile- but she's a mage, that is to be expected. Her Speed I admit is something which could be better and holds back her offensive potential. Celica was a stronger magic lord, but she was from the get go a hybrid unit (albeit one you'd use magic with much more often than not).

 

 

As for you @Carter, if you need any advice, go ahead and ask. What difficulty are you on by the way? Easy should be cake, so use whoever you want, anyone can be made to work. Normal and Hard are trickier, but you can still use some favorites at the very end thanks to a chapter that is loaded with EXP.

[maybe]

use meg she's the best

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I generally disagree with the later assertion.

  Reveal hidden contents

For Part 1, yeah she might be a little too perfect, but even then she spares Jarod after 1-9 and realizes immediately afterwards she screwed up. And in Part 3, she is perfect no more- two surprise attacks (3-6 and 3-12) is all the good she does- the rest is failure after failure with her clinging to Part 1 accomplishments to maintain control. In Part 4, she herself doesn't do too much- people still praise her for sure (and perhaps this is excessive), but she's reduced to a vessel for Yune ~50% of the time.

She actually has to deal with defeat and her authority being undermined- what other FE lords are faced with these issues? Micaiah gets points in my book for her tenacity in trying to keep things together with they go to hell in late Part 3. She doesn't succeed with flying colors at resolving these problems, but she clearly tries her best, and her failure is understandable.

As for gameplay, she isn't that bad, better than Roy for sure. Healing in Part 3 and Part 4 is nice (her being forced guarantees you at least 1 healer for 4 Final), and Thani gives her a decent chip. She is fragile- but she's a mage, that is to be expected. Her Speed I admit is something which could be better and holds back her offensive potential. Celica was a stronger magic lord, but she was from the get go a hybrid unit (albeit one you'd use magic with much more often than not).

First point: That's why I said she's not a FULL BLOWN Sue. And being reduced to a vessel for another character so hard is one reason why I think she's badly written.

Yeah, but the fact that she's both slow AND fragile is what hurts her a lot. Micaiah almost never gains speed. I've had multiple playthroughs where she went the whole game or most of the game without gaining any.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Anacybele

[Elincia]

The early game can be a little tough (assuming you're playing on normal mode, which is actual the JP versions hard mode due to a translation mistake). 

The game gets a lot better once you get out of part 1. Part 1 is rather boring imo, but it really starts to pick up in part 2.

The game has it's short comings, but it's still a great game for the things it does well. Hope you enjoy it

Edited June 21, 2017 by Elincia

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Troykv said:

Meg is a very strange unit... technically she would be a fast knight, the problem... she has a weak start and moves slowly... If she was a Pegasus Knight you would probably like her more :P

The weak start is only part of it - let's not torget her stats and class don't mesh well (FFS, she has a great speed growth... That is undermined by a godawful tier 2 speed cap).

53 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

RD is pretty much just abusing Ike's group, Haar, and laguz royals, really. It's pretty unbalanced.

I'd beg to differ, what with the sporadic availability (the laguz royals in particular only have part 4 for their playtime, and even then, part 4 is rout heavy, meaning that you're gonna need other units trained up unless you wanna take a long time).

Anyways, some tips:

- you get Tauroneo in 1-6, but he's grossly overleveled at that point, and the DB needs exp badly, so you're better off unequipping him and just using him as a wall

- speaking of walls, Aran's a worthy investment and will make part 3 easier

- laguz got nerfed hard in RD, so I wouldn't bother with most of them (Volug's one of the few useful ones, and even he starts to lose his luster pretty quickly)

[Carter]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As for you @Carter, if you need any advice, go ahead and ask. What difficulty are you on by the way? Easy should be cake, so use whoever you want, anyone can be made to work. Normal and Hard are trickier, but you can still use some favorites at the very end thanks to a chapter that is loaded with EXP.

I'm playing on Normal, which honestly was a bit tricky for me.

And that's good to hear. I have my eye on a few characters that I would love to use. Don't know anything about them other than their design, but for me, that's just enough to get to want to use them.

1 hour ago, Elincia said:

The early game can be a little tough (assuming you're playing on normal mode, which is actual the JP versions hard mode due to a translation mistake). 

The game gets a lot better once you get out of part 1. Part 1 is rather boring imo, but it really starts to pick up in part 2.

The game has it's short comings, but it's still a great game for the things it does well. Hope you enjoy it

I still find it odd how much trouble I'm having on normal "hard" mode. I play hard mode in most Fire Emblem games, but Radiant Dawn seems to be really though for me. It's been getting better though, as more and more units join my party.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Laura is a good unit but she has two main problems: 

1. She starts at level 1 with abysmal bases. She'll get killed by each physical opponent in part 1. And this won't change further in the game due to the low exp. gain for healers. She levels extremly slowly. It's impossible to promote her till part 3 without heal-abusing in using the master crown. She can barely reach level 10 till the end of part 1.
2. Priests have a terrible speed cap for some reason. Her cap in first tier is only 15, and the worst thing is that her speed growth is fantastic (70% iirc). She can't benefit from her good growth. With this speed she'll get double by all the cats in part 3. Tigers would oneshot her anyways.
    

Laura is actually a good healer, even better than Micaiah growthwise but FE10's bad class balance screws her.
For part 3 she's really important as your main healer if you want to use Micky in combat.


Speaking of Micaiah. She has three great stats: magic, luck and resistance. Everything else is mediocre or worse. She's fragile and slow. If you play on HM she shares Laura's problem of getting onerounded by each physical opponent. If her HP and defense are crappy, give her one of the two angelic robes from part 1 to have an easier time in 1-9.
Furthermore she has speed issues. Enemies can double her. If this happens, then give her Tauroneo's resolve skill from 1-6 to increase her speed when she's on low health. However it doesn't prevent her of getting oneshotted. The best strategy of making use of resolve is to sacrifice all her HP. You don't have access to speedwings until the last map of part 1. However if she has maxed out magic and resistance, give her bexp. to try rising her speed. She needs each point of that.


Meg joins late with low level. Her bases are good for her level actually but her growths don't match with her class. She's like Edward only with worse movement, lower base level and not having the crit boost. Honestly she's rather a myrm than Edward is, because Edward has a much higher strength growth than her. You have to forge her a sword immediately when she joins. 
Meg's not entirely bad, but never really needed in the DB. Fortune is also a pointless skill on her since her luck is rather good. Even Fiona, if you're really willing to train her, will become much more useful than her. I made this experience in a draft.

Edited June 21, 2017 by はたの 秦 こころ

[Troykv]

35 minutes ago, はたの 秦 こころ said:

Speaking of Micaiah. She has three great stats: magic, luck and resistance. Everything else is mediocre or worse. She's fragile and slow. If you play on HM she shares Laura's problem of getting onerounded by each physical opponent. If her HP and defense are crappy, give her one of the two angelic robes from part 1 to have an easier time in 1-9.
Furthermore she has speed issues. Enemies can double her. If this happens, then give her Tauroneo's resolve skill from 1-6 to increase her speed when she's on low health. However it doesn't prevent her of getting oneshotted. The best strategy of making use of resolve is to sacrifice all her HP. You don't have access to speedwings until the last map of part 1. However if she has maxed out magic and resistance, give her bexp. to try rising her speed. She needs each point of that.
 

That reminds me something that I should've mentioned...

I suggest you to remove Tauroneo's Resolve (he actually doesn't need because he is essencially invincible in the Part 1, I think only the Part 1 Final Enemies are capable of doing damage against him); Micaiah would give it a good use combined with her sacrifice skill (this works when you have HP at half or lower), it increase her mediocre speed to decent levels, and if you Micaiah is leveled enough, would double attack some annoying enemies (specially in one of the Part 3's Chapters).

[Shadow Mir]

Just now, Troykv said:

That reminds me something that I should've mentioned...

I suggest you to remove Tauroneo's Resolve (he actually doesn't need because he is essencially invincible in the Part 1, I think only the Part 1 Final Enemies are capable of doing damage against him); Micaiah would give it a good use combined with her sacrifice skill (this works when you have HP at half or lower), it increase her mediocre speed to decent levels, and if you Micaiah is leveled enough, would double attack some annoying enemies (specially in one of the Part 3's Chapters).

Tauroneo is unusable for the rest of part 1 after 1-6.

[Troykv]

40 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Tauroneo is unusable for the rest of part 1 after 1-6.

I don't remember, I have never atempted to use Tauroneo, but I guess you're right... in the other hand...

It's still possible to do the skill transference, it's only possible in the Chapter 6 as you can guess (during the time in the Base).

If anyone of you have any problem trying, I'll try to help.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I know that you have access to his equipment in the battle preparations till the end of part 1, but isn't he also listed in the base after 1-6?
 

[Dunal]

On 2017-6-21 at 5:03 AM, はたの 秦 こころ said:

Meg joins late with low level. Her bases are good for her level actually but her growths don't match with her class. She's like Edward only with worse movement, lower base level and not having the crit boost. Honestly she's rather a myrm than Edward is, because Edward has a much higher strength growth than her. You have to forge her a sword immediately when she joins. 
Meg's not entirely bad, but never really needed in the DB. Fortune is also a pointless skill on her since her luck is rather good. Even Fiona, if you're really willing to train her, will become much more useful than her. I made this experience in a draft.

Meg is a lot more salvageable than Fiona. With the Dracoshield + a forge and with choke-blocking 1-4 a bit (if turn counts be damned) then she's usable even on Hard. She's still a bad unit when all is said and done, but not completely terrible. I think my rule of thumb years ago was that if Meg scored two DEF procs in 1-4 (out of 4 or 5 levels), I'd keep using her. If not, then immediately bench. Her growths are weird, granted -- but overstated. Her main issue is being bad at base and her class + weapon more than anything. Her affinity doesn't do her many favours as well. But it's not like her 20/1 stats are bad for part 3 or anything. She can x4 attack Tigers with Brave Sword for instance (and/or possibly has Killing Edge access as well). She's bad, but no Fiona. If you absolutely wanted to use her as one of 2-3 units to train on Hard Mode... it wouldn't be the worst thing you could do.

One thing she has over Edward/Zihark is Javelin access (and forges later on). But then again, 3-6 and 3-13 have limited application for ranged weapons on enemy phase, so I suppose it doesn't mean much at that point. And if you're dead set on using say, Edward (who's obviously the better unit), then using Meg as well is a big nope.

Fiona though? She really cannot be salvaged without extreme favouritism, more-so than Meg. The maps she's in are even more unfair on her as well and she's just straight up a bad combat unit until tier 3. Her growths are overall good but since her bases are so terrible, it takes forever for her to start being legitimately capable. Meg kind of has the opposite problem which works a lot more in her favour -- her growths are odd, but considering her bases at a much lower level, she'll have better EXP gains in relation to her actual stats (and while her caps may not be suited to her growths, BEXP can take advantage of this). Maybe Fiona is usable in part 3 with an A support in order to dodge tank, but her offence would still be poor. Meg also just so happens to be immediately available in a map where it's easy to train certain units if you desire it. Existing in 1-4 is her saving grace, if there is one. Fiona would start being the better unit midway Part 4 or Endgame but the difference is minimal outside of movement. Hypothetically, if Fiona were to also Join in 1-4 as a level 3 unit, she would probably be a lot better than Meg -- heck, could actually be considered rather decent overall (Maybe as good as Aran or something? She'd likely have some potential in 1-6).

I'll admit that Meg's design overall as a unit is bizarre to say the least. In the limited information we have about her from a character standpoint, she's meant to be incredibly strong (think Effie from Fates) as a defining character trait. But STR is one of her weakest stats. Perhaps it's an intended joke from IS? Fortune is also an incredibly odd choice for her when it comes to skills, considering her LCK. Heaven affinity when she's early sword locked + decent SKL? She's a Frankenstein's monster of odd design choices (granted, I've embraced that in ReDux -- she's still a wonky unit, just in a good way).

Edited June 22, 2017 by DLuna

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

A big pro for Meg is definitely that her bases are much better for her level than Fiona's. Meg has even two more strength than Fiona despite being six levels lower than her.
Her bases are better and joins earlier which means she has a much easier start. However her growths don't match with her class caps. She has excellent speed growth but 22 speed cap as a female general (even lower than Gatrie - WTF) kills the point of it. In part 3 she'll become a wall but can't double anything aside of tigers.

Fiona is really REALLY bad in part 1 in NM already. She'll get doubled and 2RKOed by most enemies except myrms and magic users. However she's a growth unit. She has really good growths overall combined with good caps. Lance silver paladins have great caps actually compared to the males. Give her paragon after her promotion and she'll be on the ball. Furthermore she has the best affinity in this game.

Meg is much better in the beginning but Fiona much better in endgame. 
That's the experience I made in my draft.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, DLuna said:

Meg is a lot more salvageable than Fiona. With the Dracoshield + a forge and with choke-blocking 1-4 a bit (if turn counts be damned) then she's usable even on Hard. She's still a bad unit when all is said and done, but not completely terrible. I think my rule of thumb years ago was that if Meg scored two DEF procs in 1-4 (out of 4 or 5 levels), I'd keep using her. If not, then immediately bench. Her growths are weird, granted -- but overstated. Her main issue is being bad at base and her class + weapon more than anything. Her affinity doesn't do her many favours as well. But it's not like her 20/1 stats are bad for part 3 or anything. She can x4 attack Tigers with Brave Sword for instance (and/or possibly has Killing Edge access as well). She's bad, but no Fiona. If you absolutely wanted to use her as one of 2-3 units to train on Hard Mode... it wouldn't be the worst thing you could do.

One thing she has over Edward/Zihark is Javelin access (and forges later on). But then again, 3-6 and 3-13 have limited application for ranged weapons on enemy phase, so I suppose it doesn't mean much at that point. And if you're dead set on using say, Edward (who's obviously the better unit), then using Meg as well is a big nope.

Fiona though? She really cannot be salvaged without extreme favouritism, more-so than Meg. The maps she's in are even more unfair on her as well and she's just straight up a bad combat unit until tier 3. Her growths are overall good but since her bases are so terrible, it takes forever for her to start being legitimately capable. Meg kind of has the opposite problem which works a lot more in her favour -- her growths are odd, but considering her bases at a much lower level, she'll have better EXP gains in relation to her actual stats (and while her caps may not be suited to her growths, BEXP can take advantage of this). Maybe Fiona is usable in part 3 with an A support in order to dodge tank, but her offence would still be poor. Meg also just so happens to be immediately available in a map where it's easy to train certain units if you desire it. Existing in 1-4 is her saving grace, if there is one. Fiona would start being the better unit midway Part 4 or Endgame but the difference is minimal outside of movement. Hypothetically, if Fiona were to also Join in 1-4 as a level 3 unit, she would probably be a lot better than Meg -- heck, could actually be considered rather decent overall (Maybe as good as Aran or something? She'd likely have some potential in 1-6).

I'll admit that Meg's design overall as a unit is bizarre to say the least. In the limited information we have about her from a character standpoint, she's meant to be incredibly strong (think Effie from Fates) as a defining character trait. But STR is one of her weakest stats. Perhaps it's an intended joke from IS? Fortune is also an incredibly odd choice for her when it comes to skills, considering her LCK. Heaven affinity when she's early sword locked + decent SKL? She's a Frankenstein's monster of odd design choices (granted, I've embraced that in ReDux -- she's still a wonky unit, just in a good way).

I have difficulty agreeing with this because Meg has the questionable honour of needing the most effort to get to second tier. Not to mention her movement being a constant hindrance. Also, she starts out with E lances after promotion. This means she's essentially swordlocked until third tier.

47 minutes ago, はたの 秦 こころ said:

A big pro for Meg is definitely that her bases are much better for her level than Fiona's. Meg has even two more strength than Fiona despite being six levels lower than her.
Her bases are better and joins earlier which means she has a much easier start. However her growths don't match with her class caps. She has excellent speed growth but 22 speed cap as a female general (even lower than Gatrie - WTF) kills the point of it. In part 3 she'll become a wall but can't double anything aside of tigers.

Fiona is really REALLY bad in part 1 in NM already. She'll get doubled and 2RKOed by most enemies except myrms and magic users. However she's a growth unit. She has really good growths overall combined with good caps. Lance silver paladins have great caps actually compared to the males. Give her paragon after her promotion and she'll be on the ball. Furthermore she has the best affinity in this game.

Meg is much better in the beginning but Fiona much better in endgame. 
That's the experience I made in my draft.

This "Meg has good bases for her level" stuff is something I'm having a lot of trouble buying. Also, her availability edge does nothing for her, because she's not accomplishing anything notable.

[Dunal]

17 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I have difficulty agreeing with this because Meg has the questionable honour of needing the most effort to get to second tier. Not to mention her movement being a constant hindrance. Also, she starts out with E lances after promotion. This means she's essentially swordlocked until third tier.

This "Meg has good bases for her level" stuff is something I'm having a lot of trouble buying. Also, her availability edge does nothing for her, because she's not accomplishing anything notable.

The whole point is that salvaging/training Meg is far easier than Fiona, mostly because of 1-4 and not being completely terrible with stat-boosters and/or forges.

"Most effort to get to second tier" is meaningless as well. T2 Promotion bonuses are awful and Meg's are actually higher than Fiona's. A 14/1 Meg is also better than a 20/1 Fiona (same amount of levels), so the fact that Fiona is closer is 20 really doesn't do anything for her -- it just means that not only is Fiona's EXP slower to gain, but she doesn't get the opportunity to gain extra levels to begin with. So if you literally gave each unit the same amount of levels, Meg needs less kills than Fiona and is the better unit between the two.

Even worse, Fiona isn't actually deployable in 1-8 and only has 1 more movement than Meg in 1-7 and 1-E, but can't use ledges in either map. In 3-6 Fiona can't even move in the swamp either.

You get a couple free arm scrolls in Part 1 and so if using Meg, she's probably going to be best candidate for one of them since it gives her a decent ranged option. The availability does matter for a unit that needs investment to actually be "good" in the first place. So Fiona isn't winning any awards for joining much later with even worse stats. Again, Meg has 1-4 which is incredibly well suited to training up (even just hitting a Laguz gives ~25 EXP -- Fiona isn't gaining much more than that in 1-7 with an actual kill).

Edited June 22, 2017 by DLuna

[Shadow Mir]

16 minutes ago, DLuna said:

The whole point is that salvaging/training Meg is far easier than Fiona, mostly because of 1-4 and not being completely terrible with stat-boosters and/or forges.

"Most effort to get to second tier" is meaningless as well. T2 Promotion bonuses are awful and Meg's are actually higher than Fiona's. A 14/1 Meg is also better than a 20/1 Fiona (same amount of levels), so the fact that Fiona is closer is 20 really doesn't do anything for her -- it just means that not only is Fiona's EXP slower to gain, but she doesn't get the opportunity to gain extra levels to begin with. So if you literally gave each unit the same amount of levels, Meg needs less kills than Fiona and is the better unit between the two.

Even worse, Fiona isn't actually deployable in 1-8 and only has 1 more movement than Meg in 1-7 and 1-E, but can't use ledges in either map. In 3-6 Fiona can't even move in the swamp either.

You get a couple free arm scrolls in Part 1 and so if using Meg, she's probably going to be best candidate for one of them since it gives her a decent ranged option. The availability does matter for a unit that needs investment to actually be "good" in the first place. So Fiona isn't winning any awards for joining much later with even worse stats. Again, Meg has 1-4 which is incredibly well suited to training up (even just hitting a Laguz gives ~25 EXP -- Fiona isn't gaining much more than that in 1-7 with an actual kill).

So what? I can do that for almost anyone available in 1-4, and forges and stat boosters can go to anyone. Also, if I'm doing that, enemy laguz can gain strike levels, thus becoming more dangerous (noteworthy since you have to hit them while they're transformed to get good exp from them).

Maybe, but with Meg's stating situation, she'd need all the growth she can get. Also, look at her chapters after 1-4 - a 6 turn chapter, a terrain heavy chapter, and a wide open chapter where I need to rush to not lose.

Neither of those are much of a hindrance given that the prisoners are on the high ground in 1-7, the ledges in 1-E are guarded, and trying to use them means being in range of enemies that will eat you alive with the high ground advantage. And going into the water in 3-6 is practically suicide unless your name is Aran or Burger King (who doesn't come in until several turns in).

Which is implying that I'd keep them around until then, rather than sell them off immediately for $$$$$ (and why wouldn't I???). And see my first point for the 1-4 stuff.

[Dunal]

50 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

So what? I can do that for almost anyone available in 1-4, and forges and stat boosters can go to anyone. Also, if I'm doing that, enemy laguz can gain strike levels, thus becoming more dangerous (noteworthy since you have to hit them while they're transformed to get good exp from them).

Except Fiona...

If we're genuinely trying to use either Meg or Fiona, then we'd obviously give them resources. It's like saying "almost anyone available can kill enemies in 1-7, why give those kills to Fiona?". Uhhh... because we're using her?

If Meg is being used seriously then the opportunity to train in 1-4 is the best thing for her. Fiona does not have this opportunity.

50 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Maybe, but with Meg's stating situation, she'd need all the growth she can get. Also, look at her chapters after 1-4 - a 6 turn chapter, a terrain heavy chapter, and a wide open chapter where I need to rush to not lose.

Not sure what you're arguing here. Fiona could also "use all the growth she can get". Difference being is that Meg's EXP is faster and can ultimately gain more levels. And no matter what, Meg is better with the same amount of levels.

Do keep in mind that this is strictly discussing Meg VS. Fiona. It's not like I'm advocating that Meg is a good unit.

50 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Neither of those are much of a hindrance given that the prisoners are on the high ground in 1-7, the ledges in 1-E are guarded, and trying to use them means being in range of enemies that will eat you alive with the high ground advantage. And going into the water in 3-6 is practically suicide unless your name is Aran or Burger King (who doesn't come in until several turns in).

The point is that Meg actually exist in these maps. Again, if we're seriously using Meg, chances are we are going to be playing around Meg's shortcomings to let her contribute, even if it's not optimal. That's kind of the idea of using a "bad" unit (you're not playing optimally to use them in the first place). Same goes for Fiona.

50 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Which is implying that I'd keep them around until then, rather than sell them off immediately for $$$$$ (and why wouldn't I???). And see my first point for the 1-4 stuff.

Selling them is optimal, yes. But in the circumstance you're actually using Meg, you might not want to. The fact that they exist in the first place is in her favor. Again, using certain units requires you to play differently to make the most out of them. No different than giving Fiona the Energy Drop rather than selling it, even though the latter is probably better (plus not using Fiona to begin with -- but that's besides the point). 

Ultimately, Meg is salvageable by Part 3 even if it requires a lot of effort. Fiona, with the same amount of effort, isn't. Meg needs to be 20/1 to double tigers while Fiona needs to be 20/5. Not only does the latter require higher total EXP (15 lvls vs. 17, but the actual levels take longer) but Fiona gets only 2 maps of availability while Meg has 7. While both of them are tricky to pull off, one is definitely easier than the other. Plus it helps that a couple of Meg's early levels can be gained through BEXP fairly cheaply (at least relative to Fiona).

Edited June 22, 2017 by DLuna

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

9 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

This "Meg has good bases for her level" stuff is something I'm having a lot of trouble buying. Also, her availability edge does nothing for her, because she's not accomplishing anything notable.

If you compare them with the stats of the other DB units, then Meg's are decent.
Base Meg has more strength than Edward, Leo and same as Aran and only one less than Jill (11 levels above her). She has the third highest defense of all DB members behind Sothe and Aran, although her low base HP kinda equals it. Her skill and speed are not good though (just matching with her class), and lacking of speed is the main issue at least in HM.

[Troykv]

On 2017-6-22 at 11:27 PM, はたの 秦 こころ said:

If you compare them with the stats of the other DB units, then Meg's are decent.
Base Meg has more strength than Edward, Leo and same as Aran and only one less than Jill (11 levels above her). She has the third highest defense of all DB members behind Sothe and Aran, although her low base HP kinda equals it. Her skill and speed are not good though (just matching with her class), and lacking of speed is the main issue at least in HM.

Yeah, her issues are mostly her base speed and her low base level (if she gained was like in Lv7 and have some extra points in the stats she would have a decent start).

Edited June 25, 2017 by Troykv

[mangasdeouf]

The best advice you can give to a new RD player is to skip Paladins, they're trash between trash.

Dawn's Brigade has a standing still part 3 experience, so if you wanna use tanks (especially marshalls) it's the best part for them to level up since their party won't loose them (well, they can't move afterall in part 3 so...).

When you choose your units, look at wikia for the availability (for example Crimea paladins have like 2 chapters in P2, 1 in P3 and all you want in endgame, same goes for Lucia with only 1 in P2 and none in P3) and for their max stats (and growths). For example Titania has a good start but her def growth is the same as a mage and her speed isn't wonderful (still the 2nd to best of paladins, only Astrid has a better speed in the end).  So Titania's not good at all once promoted.

Don't hesitate to grind a lot and to heal abuse. I always give Micayah about 15 levels with sacrifice, the other levels with fights (for light level C-B) and I turn on/off until I get decent level ups (like at least 4 stats or 3 optimal stats). This goes for every unit I intend to use for a good amount of time (or to use for a part like Brom who I bench after part 2 but I still ensure his stats are good enough for all the part 2 since the other foot charcacters aren't very good or they can't fight all the time, AKA Laguz units).

If you like Meg, use her to grind on tanky regenerating ennemies so she can level up as much as needed (Laguz in part 1-4, knight in the prison level, Jarod but he is more dangerous and don't forget to reset when she level ups like trash or you'll get a slow pegasus that's ridiculously useless).

Nephenee is a trap, WARNING, Nephenee is good looking but objectively she isn't worth the investment (she's better than Lucia but she is a very bad Halberdier, the worst in fact), she should be a falcon knight just like Meg.

Laguz are bad in the Tower, so use them all you want until P4 but bench them for endgame since they can only be useful with Laguz diamond, and there's few of it. Feel free to use the royals if you don't want to train too many units, royals can be brought into the tower without training even if training them is better.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

 

12 minutes ago, mangasdeouf said:

The best advice you can give to a new RD player is to skip Paladins, they're trash between trash.
How on earth are they trash?
Yeah, their caps - at least of the males - are mediocre, but Titania, Oscar, Geoffrey and Kieran are still more than useful when you have them. Titania is amazing with a speedwing. I'd say they're not great in the endgame but never trash. Just not as OP as they were in FE9 thankfully.

 

Nephenee is a trap, WARNING, Nephenee is good looking but objectively she isn't worth the investment (she's better than Lucia but she is a very bad Halberdier, the worst in fact), she should be a falcon knight just like Meg.
Nephenee has a rough start without transfer boosts because 2-1 is painful for her due to her shitty base equipment. Enemeies with 1-2 range weapons make this even worse. If she just got an iron great lance, she would double some enemies. With the steel great lance she has hit and evade issues and speed penalty. However her growths and caps are good enough to become endgame material. Yeah, wrath is nerfed and is manly suicide for her but she's still the best sentinel in this game capwise.

 

Laguz are bad in the Tower, so use them all you want until P4 but bench them for endgame since they can only be useful with Laguz diamond, and there's few of it. Feel free to use the royals if you don't want to train too many units, royals can be brought into the tower without training even if training them is better.
Only applies to non-royal-laguz.
If you bring Rafiel to the endgame, who can refresh four units, powerful laguz like Giffca (who can also oneround an aura) are still useful.

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by はたの 秦 こころ

[Shadow Mir]

On June 22, 2017 at 3:05 PM, DLuna said:

Except Fiona...

If we're genuinely trying to use either Meg or Fiona, then we'd obviously give them resources. It's like saying "almost anyone available can kill enemies in 1-7, why give those kills to Fiona?". Uhhh... because we're using her?

If Meg is being used seriously then the opportunity to train in 1-4 is the best thing for her. Fiona does not have this opportunity.

Not sure what you're arguing here. Fiona could also "use all the growth she can get". Difference being is that Meg's EXP is faster and can ultimately gain more levels. And no matter what, Meg is better with the same amount of levels.

Do keep in mind that this is strictly discussing Meg VS. Fiona. It's not like I'm advocating that Meg is a good unit.

The point is that Meg actually exist in these maps. Again, if we're seriously using Meg, chances are we are going to be playing around Meg's shortcomings to let her contribute, even if it's not optimal. That's kind of the idea of using a "bad" unit (you're not playing optimally to use them in the first place). Same goes for Fiona.

Selling them is optimal, yes. But in the circumstance you're actually using Meg, you might not want to. The fact that they exist in the first place is in her favor. Again, using certain units requires you to play differently to make the most out of them. No different than giving Fiona the Energy Drop rather than selling it, even though the latter is probably better (plus not using Fiona to begin with -- but that's besides the point). 

Ultimately, Meg is salvageable by Part 3 even if it requires a lot of effort. Fiona, with the same amount of effort, isn't. Meg needs to be 20/1 to double tigers while Fiona needs to be 20/5. Not only does the latter require higher total EXP (15 lvls vs. 17, but the actual levels take longer) but Fiona gets only 2 maps of availability while Meg has 7. While both of them are tricky to pull off, one is definitely easier than the other. Plus it helps that a couple of Meg's early levels can be gained through BEXP fairly cheaply (at least relative to Fiona).

First part: Fair enough, I guess.

Second part: No argument there either. 

Third part: True that.

Fourth part: As I see it, there's a world of difference between selling a stat booster and selling an arms scroll. (And to be blunt, selling the energy drop is pretty quarter-baked, if you ask me - even if I wasn't intent on using Fiona, I could just save that for someone else whose strength started to lag. Compare to Arms Scrolls, which are much harder to get use out of because most beorc units either are weapon locked, thus not having much need for them, or they already start out with good weapon ranks, which also makes Arms Scrolls meaningless. The existence of Discipline doesn't help matters.)

While it might help that Meg might be able to level up cheap with BEXP starting out, it doesn't help MUCH (note that a BEXP level for her is highly likely to yield three of HP/Speed/Luck/Resistance, which doesn't help much in the grand scheme of things).

4 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

The best advice you can give to a new RD player is to skip Paladins, they're trash between trash.

Dawn's Brigade has a standing still part 3 experience, so if you wanna use tanks (especially marshalls) it's the best part for them to level up since their party won't loose them (well, they can't move afterall in part 3 so...).

When you choose your units, look at wikia for the availability (for example Crimea paladins have like 2 chapters in P2, 1 in P3 and all you want in endgame, same goes for Lucia with only 1 in P2 and none in P3) and for their max stats (and growths). For example Titania has a good start but her def growth is the same as a mage and her speed isn't wonderful (still the 2nd to best of paladins, only Astrid has a better speed in the end).  So Titania's not good at all once promoted.

Don't hesitate to grind a lot and to heal abuse. I always give Micayah about 15 levels with sacrifice, the other levels with fights (for light level C-B) and I turn on/off until I get decent level ups (like at least 4 stats or 3 optimal stats). This goes for every unit I intend to use for a good amount of time (or to use for a part like Brom who I bench after part 2 but I still ensure his stats are good enough for all the part 2 since the other foot charcacters aren't very good or they can't fight all the time, AKA Laguz units).

If you like Meg, use her to grind on tanky regenerating ennemies so she can level up as much as needed (Laguz in part 1-4, knight in the prison level, Jarod but he is more dangerous and don't forget to reset when she level ups like trash or you'll get a slow pegasus that's ridiculously useless).

Nephenee is a trap, WARNING, Nephenee is good looking but objectively she isn't worth the investment (she's better than Lucia but she is a very bad Halberdier, the worst in fact), she should be a falcon knight just like Meg.

Laguz are bad in the Tower, so use them all you want until P4 but bench them for endgame since they can only be useful with Laguz diamond, and there's few of it. Feel free to use the royals if you don't want to train too many units, royals can be brought into the tower without training even if training them is better.

In what way are paladins trash? Because Titania, Oscar, Geoffrey and Kieran are all pretty useful in their chapters.

Whilst that's true, Meg and Tauroneo aren't exactly stone walls.

Or they can just look at this page instead. Also, your statement about Titania is BS.

Not everyone has the patience for abuse and grinding strategies.

See above. Also, anyone can be good if you resort to savescumming.

What does Danved have going for him that makes him better? Because his only particularly good stats are HP and Luck.

I only see that as true of non-royal laguz (and most non-royal laguz aren't worth using anyways).

Edited July 4, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia