Seeking advice and input

[Dragoncat]

All of my art threads here have failed, and I've come to realize it's probably because I've reacted harshly to critique. So before I try again, I'd like to start a discussion about receiving critique on art and taking it as an opportunity to improve instead of an insult. 

I would really like to improve, who doesn't? But I like being told what I did right, and getting comments on the concept itself. Am I selfish for that? Would it be a problem if I say in the OP: "please also tell me what I did right and comment on the concept itself if you can think of anything". Should I also say "you can trace over my pics to show me what you mean"? Does this sound reasonable? Anything else I should know?

Should I try again or have I ruined my reputation? Because I used to be absolutely horrible. I was a whiny little brat and I'm not proud of it :(

[Shin]

I think it's worth trying again, but I would strongly recommend being open to all sorts of criticism. In the past, you haven't been exactly receptive, and at times almost hostile, towards feedback. A lot of people struggle to differentiate a lack of praise towards artwork from disdain to the person making it. I think as long as you're willing to produce content, people will be able to evaluate it. Just keep in mind that there might be quite a lot to work on! 

[Dragoncat]

Yeah. But would what I said work well enough? Telling everyone to tell me what I did right and asking for feedback and comments on the concept behind the art? Like if I draw an OC, I really love it when people show interest in said OC by asking questions that I didn't cover in the description. Stuff like that.

I'm afraid if I try again, people will automatically ignore it because of how I acted.

[MediocreLee]

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong in asking for people to tell you what you did right.  Positive feedback, I feel, is just as important as critical ones as well.  Of course, if you don't get the feedback you want, such as harsh criticisms.  Take a step back, deep breaths, and analyze the situation with a rational mind if possible.

Plus, it's human nature to seek and want praise for something, no matter what it is you're doing.

[Sunwoo]

It isn't a good idea to ask people up front to post something they like about your art. That just reeks of fishing for compliments and like you actually want praise more than criticism. Personally, I feel the only time it's acceptable to ask people what they like about your art is if you want to find your strengths. Asking people to post nice things about your art is more likely than not to make people not want to leave comments. It's hard enough to get people to comment on and look at your works; getting any constructive criticism or review should be enough of a thank you.

Also, I highly suggest not to go overboard on describing OCs. Most people do not care about your OCs. Most people do not care about anyone's OCs other than their own, and you should probably only go into depth into OCs when asked to do so.

[Anacybele]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be told what you did right! Seriously, there isn't. I hate when people accuse us of wanting things sugarcoated when we try to point this out. There's a difference between blatant praise/sugarcoating/fishing for compliments and simply pointing out the positives in the piece as well as the negative. You're supposed to learn from people pointing out errors, but you can also learn other things from people pointing out what was done right.

I think sometimes people here are far too harsh and they could be more polite while still being really helpful. But as Shin said, it's necessary to be open to all forms of criticism/critique. ...I hope I don't sound hypocritical here. I know I still have to work on this myself a little...

Dcat, I was a whiny brat a long time ago too. You're not alone in that, you know. I'm not proud of it either...

Edited June 21, 2017 by Anacybele

[Arcanite]

5 hours ago, Dragoncat said:

I would really like to improve, who doesn't? But I like being told what I did right, and getting comments on the concept itself.

Well the thing is, being told what you do RIGHT isn't going to help you improve.

Being told what you do wrong helps you improve! I personally like to be less "critical" when giving any type of input, but others may not be as... "easy" so to speak. But you can't ask people to be less critical if you want criticism! I think you just need to have a more open mind, because no one is trying to tell you that you suck, they're just telling you your weaknesses!

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Well the thing is, being told what you do RIGHT isn't going to help you improve.

I would think there is some merit in knowing what was done right. After all, what's better; just knowing what to avoid, or knowing what to avoid and what to replicate? After all, one does not just do things right or wrong. They can also just be... done, without much as positive or negative. Well, at least I think so.

Then again, I don't have much experience on this.

[Rezzy]

For feedback in art, or just life in general, I've always tried to welcome feedback of any kind.  Sure, I get the people who just say "your art sucks", and in my case, they're often right, but I've also found several people who pointed out specific spots where I could improve, and I've taken the good advice and used it to improve, going from absolutely awful all the way up to mediocre.

 

Blatant non-constructive or tactless criticism can be painful, but as a rule, never respond to those, beyond an acknowledgement that you heard/saw what they said.  If you lash out at them, you'll scare off the people who genuinely want to help.  To be honest, I get more down when I get no feedback at all versus negative feedback.

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I would think there is some merit in knowing what was done right. After all, what's better; just knowing what to avoid, or knowing what to avoid and what to replicate? After all, one does not just do things right or wrong. They can also just be... done, without much as positive or negative. Well, at least I think so.

Then again, I don't have much experience on this.

It's good to know what your strengths are, so you can keep those or accentuate them.

[Nobody]

While feedback about what you did right can help, you will never know what to improve on if you don't get negative feedback as well. 

I feel that, if you start a thread asking for feedback, you should accept either form of it. Asking for only positive feedback feels fake and not usefull at all. Not being able to accept criticism is an issue, and if you're like that, you should try working on it (and yes, this is negative feedback :p). 

If you're ONLY receiving negative feedback, you can try asking about what you did right, but DON'T reject or deny the negative ones, and try to work on them.

TL;DR: If you ask for feedback, don't cherrypick it.

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Nobody

[Dragoncat]

Wow, this thread kinda exploded.

I will start one. But yeah, asking for positive feedback is mainly so I know what I'm doing right, so I know what to change and what not to change. Thanks guys. I hope I can take critique without feeling bad about it now. I'll start it when I'm done with what I'm currently working on.

[Anacybele]

3 hours ago, Rezzy said:

For feedback in art, or just life in general, I've always tried to welcome feedback of any kind.  Sure, I get the people who just say "your art sucks", and in my case, they're often right, but I've also found several people who pointed out specific spots where I could improve, and I've taken the good advice and used it to improve, going from absolutely awful all the way up to mediocre.

 

Blatant non-constructive or tactless criticism can be painful, but as a rule, never respond to those, beyond an acknowledgement that you heard/saw what they said.  If you lash out at them, you'll scare off the people who genuinely want to help.  To be honest, I get more down when I get no feedback at all versus negative feedback.

It's good to know what your strengths are, so you can keep those or accentuate them.

Yeah, I agree with this whole post, pretty much.

I know it can be hard to accept some critique sometimes, Dcat. Believe me, I started out getting my stuff torn apart by people and I didn't handle it well. But later on I realized this and started taking more advice and you've seen what I make now. I still have things to learn, of course, but I've gotten much better in the past few years.

I told my stepdad once that when I go into art school, I want my teachers to rip my stuff up just like people used to (not literally, of course lol). Except this time, I can accept it, I know I can. Even if they say "this sucks, start over," I'll take it. They're the teacher and the expert (this was probably one key difference in having random people on the internet do this rather than an actual art expert. You know that the latter knows what they're talking about, but the former, it can just feel like more of an insult and like "what do they know" since they're just a random internet person). And I'm not going to get hired by people to draw art for games and cartoons and stuff if I don't listen to my teachers and become an even better artist than I already am.

And I'd say I have a tougher road than other people would. I'll probably have to learn some traditional art methods, and my hand-eye coordination is awful. I can't even stay in the lines in a kid's coloring book for crying out loud. lol But I have to work around it to be a master at art and that's what I'm going to do!

Edited June 22, 2017 by Anacybele

[ChibiToastExplosion]

9 hours ago, Rezzy said:

To be honest, I get more down when I get no feedback at all versus negative feedback.

Pretty much this.

When I was on dA for photography, even though I was regularly getting more and more likes as I improved, all the favorites / likes in the world didn't mean a thing with only a handful of comments, most of which were "aww" or nice work. I never improved that way, and I actually left the site even though I had like 10k followers because all the praise and ego stroking wasn't making me happy, and it didn't help me improve.

There is a really fine line to walk between wanting to be praised for your work and creating works of art for praise, instead of love and passion for the subject.

You have to realize, that especially in this day and age, we are more increasingly saturated in entertainment of all forms. How many images do you see in a day? How many do you spend more than 0.3 seconds on, even if you like the image? Tomorrow, there are more images in the pool, more distractions, more games to play, books to read, movies to watch. Getting someone to take the time to comment, whether it's good or bad, is a feat and a major compliment in and of itself.

[Shuuda]

I've been thinking on this topic on length. I spent time looking through some of your old topics, and even your DA account. While I suspect my answer is likely to cause drama, I feel there are things that need to be said. This going to be scathing, but there are some truths that need to be recognised before any maturation can occur.

Wanting positive feedback is understandable, but there's a serious problem here; your drawings have no merit whatsoever. You evidently have no ability to draw well. Your "concepts", as you put it, are obessive fanfic OCs which come across as cringy, creepy, and self absorbed. Put bluntly; you don't deserve the praise you seek.

Now I know what you'll say. "But I'll improve". Looking through your history of drawing however, I don't think you've made any significant improvement to your drawing at all, ever. The root of this issue? Maybe it's the obession with fanfic OCs, the coddling from certain people, or maybe you're just not taking it seriously. Regardless, your work is stagnent. Something has gone wrong for this to be the case. Making a song and dance about improving, and actually improving, are two different things. I don't want to be the kind of person who says you'll never get better, but I don't think you'll get anywhere if you keep to the path you're on now. You'll likely repeat history at this rate.

At the level you're at criticism will not be of any benefit. Quite the opposite I suspect. Giving an honest assessment of your work I'd either have to write daunting essays, or throw my hands up in frustration and cry "it's all wrong!" None of those will be useful to you. In the end, it'll be confusing and frustrating for everyone involved.

So here's the core of my advice; what you need isn't criticism or commentary from random people on the internet. If you're serious about improving your drawing, then you must devote yourself to studying and practice. Read books and tutorials, watch videos, take classes if you want, practice everyday. It can be as simple as typing "how to draw x" in Google. Start at the very basics and work your way from there. Fill up sketchbooks with practice. Once you've done that then maybe you'll be able to draw something worth praising, and receive criticism that's beneficial.

I hope you'll forgive the ranting, but I couldn't think of any nice way of putting my thoughts together. I wish you the best of luck in trying to improve.