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Future Tempest Trial Speculation/Wishlist Thread


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I'm surprised nobody built this thread yet, as the conversation comes up pretty often. Now that Tempest Trials is winding down, what do you expect and want out of future Tempest Trials? Here are my thoughts

Rules and mechanic changes: I like the three difficulties allowing players of all skill levels to at least attempt what is mean to be a very difficult and stressful mode. However, the Lunatic 5 and Hard 3 choices feel unnecessary to me. As far as I know, the final map for Lunatic 5 is the same as Lunatic 7 in terms of enemy strength. And if that's the case, you would want more rounds to accumulate more points both for a win or a lose. I think Lunatic 5 and Hard 3 should be removed as they don't seem to serve a purpose by costing the same amount of stamina, Furthermore, the score bonus from survival seems too low, making surrender too viable of a strategy. My strategy was to reach Map 7 with my strongest, most versatile team, then surrender three times (one of the teams being a lone bonus unit) and then deploy a few units strong enough to defeat the enemies who are left at 40% health. This will activate skills like Vantage and Wings of Mercy prematurely, but the hit to my survival score is so less impactful then the boon of safely deploying a weak bonus unit and dropping down the enemies to half strength.

The representative character you can earn: Masked Marth is pretty cool but it leaves me wondering what the thought process would be in choosing others. Let's say TT units were all "alter ego" characters. We could see Sirius as an alternate Camus, the Black Knight as an alternate /SPOILER/ or even the mysterious masked knight from Echoes. Or perhaps they'll be skins of existing, 5 star characters that have the same stats, but only their weapon in terms of skills. Like a Radiant Dawn version of Ike.

Bonus unit selection: You may have noticed that all the 1.2x options are free characters, including the representative character. If you have a 1.4 bonus unit (ready to use, or just to sacrifice like I do), then the 1.2 bonus units aren't really necessary since they don't stack. As scummy as this may sound, I think they should just have the 1.4 bonus units. And increase the amount from four to at least six. The fifth and sixth being the representative characters from the current and last TT. To reward players that earned the previous one and raised them up in time, as well as spending precious stamina and crystals raising the new one. With the current setup of 1.4 bonus units, new and old players don't have especially different odds of having them before the TT, since it's all random chance.

Rewards selection: I really liked the rewards. Hitting 50K was not easy, and certainly not a quick exercise. But at the same time, the quickened pulse seal didn't sound so amazing that I absolutely had to have it. In fact, I took a several day break after 30K because of it. But there's lots of questions surrounding future rewards. Will the Breath of Life and Quickened Pulse seals return in a future TT? Will they share a reward slot with new seals, or just appear as lower score rewards? If there's one type of reward I would like added to the list, it's stamina potions. These items have not been common for the last few months, but they're extremely helpful for those really trying to grind. I feel like each TT should provide the player with at least five.

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What use does getting rid of the x1.2 bonus units serve other than screwing over people who don't have the x1.4 units. Like those x1.2 units aren't hurting anything, so...

 

I want some change to the multipliers. Survival is probably the most likely, because it's such a low multiplier. Which is weird to me because it's by far the hardest one to keep high while keeping up a fast pace. Increasing that multiplier (even just to x1.3) would also help offset pure survival runs that run long. 

Having a special, time period where all points are doubled would be fun. Maybe just have it be on one day of a tempest trial during the weekend for like 30 minutes, or something. 

I saw a few suggestions of having like...a trial variant that's  60 stamina, 7 maps, but worth approximately as much as doing the 20 stamina variant 3 times. Just to help curb the grind of going through 21 maps for the similar result.

Extend the time. Make it a 3 week affair instead of a 2 week affair. I mean ideally it would be a month, but they'd probably need to change all the points & rewards so whatever. I think that time length would reach the perfect balance between endless grinding and letting you do other content withotu worrying about failling to meet whatever your personal goal was. I'll admit some bias, since work meant i had to shove as much grinding as i could into the weekends.

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3 minutes ago, r_n said:

What use does getting rid of the x1.2 bonus units serve other than screwing over people who don't have the x1.4 units. Like those x1.2 units aren't hurting anything, so...

I just prefer my idea of expanding the 1.4 bonus pool to six. 1.2 bonus units are redundant for most players that have one of the 1.4 options. Combine them by including the previous TT representative in the 1.4 pool. Keeping the 1.4 pool as is helps neither new nor old players as having pulled them is a matter of luck. With the new pool, you can still get screwed over, but only if you were a non-diligent player in the last trial, rather than being screwed over for being unlucky enough to not have specifically a Lucina or Tharja ready to roll.

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4 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

I just prefer my idea of expanding the 1.4 bonus pool to six. 1.2 bonus units are redundant for most players that have one of the 1.4 options. Combine them by including the previous TT representative in the 1.4 pool. Keeping the 1.4 pool as is helps neither new nor old players as having pulled them is a matter of luck. With the new pool, you can still get screwed over, but only if you were a non-diligent player in the last trial, rather than being screwed over for being unlucky enough to not have specifically a Lucina or Tharja ready to roll.

It's redundant for players that have the x1.4 units but, not, you know, the ones who don't have them? Like if I didn't have Nowi this go around, I would have had no extra points whatsoever. And even if Masked Marth gets into the next tempest as a 5th or 6th unit, that still screws over people who weren't here for the last trial 

As it stands the x1.2 units are hurting no one. New players and unlucky players still get a few extra points, players with the lucky set of units can safely ignore them. Getting rid of them helps no one.

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1 minute ago, r_n said:

It's redundant for players that have the x1.4 units but, not, you know, the ones who don't have them? Like if I didn't have Nowi this go around, I would have had no extra points whatsoever. And even if Masked Marth gets into the next tempest as a 5th or 6th unit, that still screws over people who weren't here for the last trial 

As it stands the x1.2 units are hurting no one. New players and unlucky players still get a few extra points, players with the lucky set of units can safely ignore them. Getting rid of them helps no one.

I think you're misunderstanding me. My suggestion is not to make it easier for players to score higher. It's to re-organize how the bonus units help players. I want a system that benefits veteran players in a fashion that's not based on luck. Furthermore, TT units need not only be raised to level 40, but given all their non-weapon skills. Building a viable unit is another facet of player skill that can be tested as players resort to these characters. 1.2x units are a neat idea for charity, but I know I'm in the minority in raising up the free rotation units from 2 star.

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Add an additional tier to relieve burn-out. One additional tier at the very top that is EXACTLY identical to the current top tier, but costs triple the stamina (60) and awards triple the points (2116 maximum). Players who are capable of running the top tier set can now choose whether they want to run one third as many runs for the same number of points per point of stamina or run more runs for SP and Hero Merit.

Reevaluate the weighting of scoring multipliers. For a mode that totes classic-style (semi-)permanent death as a defining feature, it's odd that survival is the least-weighted rating.

 

That's it, really. I think everything else was executed reasonably well.

 

12 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

rather than being screwed over for being unlucky enough to not have specifically a Lucina or Tharja ready to roll.

Robin (M) is available as a 3-star pull.

The entire point of the 1.2× bonus characters is so that absolutely everyone is physically capable of building a team containing at least one bonus character of some sort. All four of them were free characters, one from Hero Battles, one from a Grand Hero Battle, one from this event, and one that is a starting character that everyone has a copy of and cannot accidentally get rid of under any circumstance.

 

2 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

1.2x units are a neat idea for charity, but I know I'm in the minority in raising up the free rotation units from 2 star.

Lissa and Alfonse were the only characters on the list where the highest rarity available for free was 2-star rarity. Robin (F) is available as a 3-star character, and Masked Marth is available as a 4-star character at his minimum rarity.

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Just now, Gustavos said:

I think you're misunderstanding me. My suggestion is not to make it easier for players to score higher. It's to re-organize how the bonus units help players. I want a system that benefits veteran players in a fashion that's not based on luck. Furthermore, TT units need not only be raised to level 40, but given all their non-weapon skills. Building a viable unit is another facet of player skill that can be tested as players resort to these characters. 1.2x units are a neat idea for charity, but I know I'm in the minority in raising up the free rotation units from 2 star.

Giving an incentive to veteran players to raise someone up is fine, but you don't need to get rid of x1.2 multiplier for free units to do so. 

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Add an additional tier to relieve burn-out. One additional tier at the very top that is EXACTLY identical to the current top tier, but costs triple the stamina (60) and awards triple the points (2116 maximum). Players who are capable of running the top tier set can now choose whether they want to run one third as many runs for the same number of points per point of stamina or run more runs for SP and Hero Merit.

Reevaluate the weighting of scoring multipliers. For a mode that totes classic-style (semi-)permanent death as a defining feature, it's odd that survival is the least-weighted rating.

Just going to echo Ice here because both of these are what I want, the top bit especially. 

I don't really have any complaints about anything else in this mode off the top of my head, but having that additional tier to give people the option to grind fewer times would be nice if you happen to be a busy person.

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I could see them having the same two Sacred Seals again (that's what I want anyways, that way I don't have to shoot for them since I have them) and then probably a new character instead of Masked Marth. I'm not sure who though . . . probably someone who is a variation of a character like Masked Marth was. Maybe another Ike, that'd be cool like Hero Ike or Vanguard Ike, probably not though.

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In addition to what Ice Dragon said, I'd just get rid of the bonus units. Bonus units are good for Arena to keep the meta alive and interesting, but in TT, it really just rewards players who happened to draw one of the characters. The mode was a chore even with the bonus, I wouldn't want anyone to have to suffer through TT without it. Also, with survival rated as it is, you don't even need to use the bonus character seriously. You just put them on your first team, surrender and continue with your real team.

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5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Reevaluate the weighting of scoring multipliers. For a mode that totes classic-style (semi-)permanent death as a defining feature, it's odd that survival is the least-weighted rating.

This is one of my biggest problems with Tempest Trials. The whole pseudo-classic mode thing was what the game mode was hyped on. To find out that it has the least reward out of all of the clear multipliers doesn't sit well with me.

1.5x multiplier for Speed. This has so much weight that for many players who have a competent team that can reliably clear a run but own a bonus unit that is untrained or otherwise doesn't fit their team, the whole "surrender while using bonus unit on first team, then switch to main team" is a viable strat, especially as turns used in a clear -NOT a surrender/loss - only count for total run turn count for Speed scoring if the player clears the entire run. 

1.4x or 1.2x multiplier for use of a bonus unit, 1.4x being used if the 1.4x bonus unit is used at all in a run.

1.2x multiplier for Survival if the entire run is cleared using the first team. This is honestly pretty pathetic when compared to Arena because the player gets a rather significant score reduction if they lose any units during an Arena battle.

Bonus units need to go as Tempest Trials is not Arena (player is not facing off against player-built teams; player is facing off against AI teams running units with full default kits with inherited skills to fill out skill slots the default kits leave blank). Bonus units do serve a purpose in Arena so that newly introduced units can have a chance to shine and so that the meta doesn't become stale. Besides, the themed maps (this Tempest Trials event is Awakening-themed, after all!) and the random "Fire Emblem Heroes All-Star mode" style enemy team compositions should do a job of changing up strategies. though some of the maps do heavily favor certain teams over others (ie. Awakening Ch. 5 and 13 maps favor Flier Emblem teams).

There should also be adjustments to the amount of stamina spent for trials on lower difficulties. 20 for either Normal and Hard mode is honestly ridiculous to me, especially with the points pay-out (75 max for Normal, 252 max for 5-Hard and for comparison, 705 for 7-Lunatic) - they could stand to be lowered a little bit (not to the point that you get more trial points/stamina point on Normal/Hard than on Lunatic). Lunatic is fine as is.

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8 hours ago, r_n said:

Having a special, time period where all points are doubled would be fun. Maybe just have it be on one day of a tempest trial during the weekend for like 30 minutes, or something. 

At 2am or some time, right? The Voting Gauntlet multipliers sucked, but they were vaguely predictable and not blatantly unfair.

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I just want it to be less of a grindfest.

I got bored around 35k, and really had to force myself to play beyond what was fun and entertaining for the last 10k to get 50k for the seal.

It was fun for a few days until I reliably figured out how to complete Lunatic 7 with a rather high score, then it soon became a matter of boring repetition.

My suggestion to make things more interesting: Quests

They could offer tempest trial quests for completeing the highest difficult with various stipulations: only using one team, under X turns, using teams of a certain composition, etc. Could be a way to offer both additional challenges and additional rewards.

As it is, you only need to figure out one team that can clear the whole thing, then it's just a matter of repeating it. Quests could be used to make players try different teams and combinations.

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Honestly, they should either do a 40 stamina mode which is the same as the 20 one with double the points as previously suggested, or simply double the point gain in general and cut the event down by a week to reduce the grind. You lose a week of SP/HM grinding but chances are most people are using their best teams just to clear the thing.

That being said, I would love a "Dark Clouds over Blazing/Blinding" to give me reason to use Eliwood/Hector/Lyn/Matthew or Roy/Lilina/Batre/Fir (NOT Sophia).

But chances are the Fates trials will be here the month after next. So get your Ryoma/Takumi/Kagero's ready.

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I do agree with the option to have a run through for triple the stamina cost at triple the price.

I also think, if they keep bonus units, then they should make the 1.2 x free units go up to 1.4, so that everyone has at least one 1.4 bonus unit.

I don't agree with increased scores at a certain time, since I feel this would be unfair. People work, or have school, or even sleep at different times due to different timezones, so this feels like only certain people would benefit.

Getting an A rating on survival should be ranked higher, but I wouldn't want to see the scoring decreased for a lower survival rating, since the lower speed rating is already harsh enough.

My two pence. I don't have any alternative ideas, currently. I imagine the next one will be Fates themed and we'll get one of the three Fates ones (likely Inigo or Selena to keep the same stats).

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14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Add an additional tier to relieve burn-out. One additional tier at the very top that is EXACTLY identical to the current top tier, but costs triple the stamina (60) and awards triple the points (2116 maximum). Players who are capable of running the top tier set can now choose whether they want to run one third as many runs for the same number of points per point of stamina or run more runs for SP and Hero Merit.

This is my biggest want tbh.

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14 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

At 2am or some time, right? The Voting Gauntlet multipliers sucked, but they were vaguely predictable and not blatantly unfair.

Yeah the time zone logistics kind of screw with this idea unless they make it an all day affair. Still, I'd like some way to temporarily earn double points. Maybe pop some badges or spend a ~*~brand new currency~*~ like flags

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As said before, the anti-burn-out system is what TT lacked. Something like a multiplier to the stamina cost/ reward points would be really cool as all that repetitive playthrough can be time-consuming and boring as hell.
Random quests after you entered the mode that gives some help like +1 to all stats during one map on the easier stratum, maybe?
I felt that starters were kind of left out this time.

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1. Anti-Burnout Mode: Essentially what Ice Dragon is saying. Add either an option or a bracket that doubles/triples the points earned, but also doubles/triples the stamina cost. This is the best compromise that retains the hardcore grinding for HM and SP while allowing more casual players a chance to get the rewards. // I mostly stopped playing Heroes because I was burned out on Tempest Trials, and I just got to around 7k in score. At least I got 4* Masked Marth, but the Seals will elude me for the time being...

2. Make Difficulty Tiers More Competitive: Right now, there is no real reason to play the lower difficulties because the stamina cost to reward ratio is too low. Of course, Lunatic (or Infernal) difficulty should remain the highest value and the most efficient, but I want alternative ways to play Tempest Trials besides using my max level units all the time. Sometimes I just want to mess around with my lower level units while also training them up in Tempest Trials. This variety should also help with burnout issues.

* * * * *

Wishlist: A part of me would still love to see Nohr Azura (Black Dress Azura) as a reward character from Tempest Trials, but I have a feeling Masked Marth will be the mainstay of TT due to its "ending dialogue." This will allow Masked Marth to eventually be merged to +10, but it can be disappointing for those who were hoping for other "alternative" characters. // Although, I could see some "side characters" making a surprise appearance, such as Lilith being a Manakete for Fates or Leila representing Blazing Sword Blade. Just give me Matthew x Leila already, IS!

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Agreeing with what Ice said about the Stamina points: Triple Stamina points usage for Triple reward score to make it less of a hassle and less tiem constraining

Also Agreeing on the part where they should a lower level usage for people that want to level units while also doing Tempest trial.

The Score also needs to be pushed up a bit. 704 for Lunatic is ugh.

Different rewards for next time hopefully! Instead of a Character give us an inheritable Legendary Weapon!!! as a 4 Star or 5 Star reward! (For Example Armads that can be inherited to any Axe user)

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