Golden Sun

[BakanGin]

Who else was hoping for Golden Sun 4 at E3? I know that Camelot is most likely not working on it.

[Acacia Sgt]

As much as I would like to see another Golden Sun game... chances weren't high to hope, unfortunately, I'd say.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Golden Sun has unfortunately been devoured by the Psynergy Vortex that was Dark Dawn.

Like Fates, the plot was pretty bad. Not like the original two were at all good on the plot and characterization front, they were bad, but not so openly appallingly so. In addition, DD did nothing to fix the faults of the original duo's gameplay, unlike what Conquest did with Awakening's. There is little redeeming about Dark Dawn, and most unfortunately the game ended on a giant cliffhanger. A sequel, which I sincerely doubt we'll ever get, will have a lot to fix.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Given the fan reception of Dark Dawn, the previous series revival, I feel as if fans don't want a sequel at all. Because that one had only a handful of returning characters or whatever. They may be even hoping just for some HD remaster so that more people can chime in about how great their favorite game is, even if it's just for a week. Reliving that appreciation for the game is more valuable then seeing the game take a new direction. Or at least, that's what the lucrative trend of remasters seems to tell us.

I have played a bit of the original. It has that warm "baby's first RPG" feel like my darling Paper Mario. But little else could grab my attention.

[Book Bro]

45 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not like the original two were at all good on the plot and characterization front, they were bad, but not so openly appallingly so. 

Bad? Standard maybe, but they were pretty well-executed and enjoyable. 

I've hoped for many years for GS4. I feel like it's a definite no at this point and the best we can hope for is some kind of re-release of the first two to to revive the series at some point in the future.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Book Bro said:

Bad? Standard maybe, but they were pretty well-executed and enjoyable. 

 

Well there wasn't much characterization or development or anything. The characters relied on solely on charm, which isn't that bad, that's what the SNES era (and numerous FE characters to this day) rely on. GS tries to capture the spirit of that era, and I thought it worked.

On plot, I was being a little too critical too. I just wanted to avoid being criticized for being overly nostalgic about the first two games- I acknowledge they weren't perfect.

[Azure Sen]

I'm not surprised we're not getting GS 4; it's not impossible that it'll happen, but at this point it's incredibly unlikely. My own personal feelings on the franchise aside, Dark Dawn sold pretty poorly overall, and demand for a sequel never seemed that high even after The Lost Age (which is probably why Dark Dawn came as such as surprise back in 2010). Granted Dark Dawn ended on a cliffhanger from what I heard (I've never played it, for the record), so perhaps people are just eager to see that game's plots resolved.

3 hours ago, Book Bro said:

Bad? Standard maybe, but they were pretty well-executed and enjoyable. 

The writing in the first two games is pretty bad. The story itself is full of plot holes and has no sense of logical progression, it tends to ignore or completely forget about characters or elements that were previously established to be important (Ivan and Sheba get it the worst, but they're far from the only examples), the major plot twist is contrived and badly set-up, and in general the story dissolves like wet tissue under the lightest of analysis. The characters are bland and poorly developed, character consistency is basically nonexistent, and all the villains are incompetent idiots that make Iago look compelling and likable. It says a lot about the quality of writing that 90% of what the characters are remembered for comes from fanfiction and headcanons, not the actual game itself.

3 hours ago, Book Bro said:

I've hoped for many years for GS4. I feel like it's a definite no at this point and the best we can hope for is some kind of re-release of the first two to to revive the series at some point in the future.

I don't think Golden Sun has any chance of seeing a revival outside of a sequel or a complete Echoes-style remake of the first two games. Story aside, the gameplay is also incredibly dated, with how stale and anachronistic the gameplay was being a major complaint critics had regarding Dark Dawn, and part of the whole reason Golden Sun got big was that it was technologically impressive and mechanically deep for its time. Granted the gameplay's not bad per se, just a little too easy and lacking in depth, so a proper remake could really help in that department.

46 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Well there wasn't much characterization or development or anything. The characters relied on solely on charm, which isn't that bad, that's what the SNES era (and numerous FE characters to this day) rely on. GS tries to capture the spirit of that era, and I thought it worked.

The SNES era was held back by technical limitations, and even then its games managed to fit a surprising amount of characterization, world building and depth of story in scripts with what were effectively strict word count limits. Golden Sun, meanwhile, has no such excuse for its lack of any of those things, and in fact the first Golden Sun's script alone is incredibly long at 70,000 words, not including all the NPC and flavor text in towns. That's almost as long as Final Fantasy V and VI's scripts combined, for reference.

Edited June 23, 2017 by AzureSen

[MadJak91]

6 hours ago, Gustavos said:

Given the fan reception of Dark Dawn, the previous series revival, I feel as if fans don't want a sequel at all.

Fans are creating petitions all the time. It is Dark Dawn kind of game "nobody" wants, haha.

A new Golden Sun would be great but I do not think Camelot has it in them for quite a while now. It is up to anyone to judge but in my opinion they struggle to even make a cool game these days. They kinda wander aimlessly and abandoned most of their series.

I did not mind the difficulty as much or even the fact the game is divided into small games and cuts you off from the rest of the world a few times but... Dark Dawn simply did not work very well with the series. It pulled ancient lore out of its butt, Alex is once again Alex but third time it is becomg dumb because NOTHING gets explained and then the plot insultingly returns to its beginning at the end of the game. DD is a mess of a plot :/

 

1 hour ago, AzureSen said:

I don't think Golden Sun has any chance of seeing a revival outside of a sequel or a complete Echoes-style remake of the first two games.

You know, they do not even have to remake it too much. Something like an updated game with maybe some new content and joining the games together. That would be cool. Or released together.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 hours ago, MadJak91 said:

Dark Dawn simply did not work very well with the series. It pulled ancient lore out of its butt, Alex is once again Alex but third time it is becomg dumb because NOTHING gets explained and then the plot insultingly returns to its beginning at the end of the game. DD is a mess of a plot :/

 

The new lore wasn't the big problem for me, and Alex's return wasn't terrible either. Those beast humanoids that were overly cutesy was more offensive (though Sveta was powerful- hitting the damage cap when transformed was nice). I like the addition of Dark and Light Psynergies... except for the fact we never actually see any whatsoever. The Tuaparang group we encounter (who are led by Saturos and Menardi 3.0) is implied to have been non-Adepts. And why do we have to get another fusion final boss- now with that cheap Djinn Storm skill.

Which brings me to a problem bigger than the beasties- the fact that you're being manipulated/used by the villains for way too much of the game, and the game doesn't really execute this idea all that well. And when you're not being manipulated, it's all too often a fetch quest. Heck the entire game wouldn't have happened were it not for Tyrell breaking that Soarwing thing at the start. (GS2 I admit was fetch questy with the Trident thing too- why'd Poseidon have to be invincible again?)

We also have the fact that our second Earth Adept is tossed into the game for no good reason, and our second Fire Adept is almost as badly tacked on. Matthew is a slient protag like his daddy was in GS1 and uncle Felix in GS2, but he's somehow worse. Only Sveta and Amiti have any real quality at all to them.

 

11 hours ago, AzureSen said:

I don't think Golden Sun has any chance of seeing a revival outside of a sequel or a complete Echoes-style remake of the first two games. Story aside, the gameplay is also incredibly dated, with how stale and anachronistic the gameplay was being a major complaint critics had regarding Dark Dawn, and part of the whole reason Golden Sun got big was that it was technologically impressive and mechanically deep for its time. Granted the gameplay's not bad per se, just a little too easy and lacking in depth, so a proper remake could really help in that department.

11 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Indeed, Camelot should do this. They should focus on adding depth and challenge to the gameplay, while making the characters much better. Once they've done this, they can contemplate making a GS4- as is, it has an Everest of work to do. Dragon Quest can get away with being as conservative in gameplay and story as it largely does due to its ancestral position among JRPGs- not so much with GS.

[Azure Sen]

42 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Indeed, Camelot should do this. They should focus on adding depth and challenge to the gameplay, while making the characters much better. Once they've done this, they can contemplate making a GS4- as is, it has an Everest of work to do. Dragon Quest can get away with being as conservative in gameplay and story as it largely does due to its ancestral position among JRPGs- not so much with GS.

It's a shame that they apparently didn't change the battle system or re-balance the difficult much for Dark Dawn from what I've heard, because I do think the idea of being able to switch skills and stats in battle via the Djinn is a really interesting and creative system. Unfortunately it was wasted in the first two games, because 99% of the time the games were so easy that you could get away with just relying on weapon unleashes and the occasional heal. It's why, despite how frustrated I got with them at the time, I actually think Dullahan and the Doom Dragon from The Lost Age are two of the best bosses in the series for bringing a bit of strategy to the table by messing with your Djinn setup, even if I think Djinn Storm should have been single target instead of hitting the entire party. The only boss fight that remotly compared in the amount of strategy required was the Briggs fight, and I purposefully fought that under-leveled just so I could get Piers early.

Edited June 23, 2017 by AzureSen

[MadJak91]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The new lore wasn't the big problem for me, and Alex's return wasn't terrible either. Those beast humanoids that were overly cutesy was more offensive (though Sveta was powerful- hitting the damage cap when transformed was nice). I like the addition of Dark and Light Psynergies... except for the fact we never actually see any whatsoever. The Tuaparang group we encounter (who are led by Saturos and Menardi 3.0) is implied to have been non-Adepts. And why do we have to get another fusion final boss- now with that cheap Djinn Storm skill.

The story jumps all over the place and it abandons Plot A in favor of Plot B and then never returns to A. That sort of thing. While it is cool Alex is back and all... Did we really need the same deal once again? Alex doing nothing, not explaining anything and yeah, Saturos + Menardi 3.0. I found that a bit too much, haha. Too many facts popped up and I am supposed to take them for granted.