Hawkeye is WAAAAY better than you thought

[shadowofchaos]

14 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

No, I think Ice Dragon's math was right there. 44 + 6 (DB3) + 6 (Hone) = 56 Atk for Reinhardt, and after WTD it becomes 56*0.8 = 44.8 rounded to 45 Atk. 45 - (35 + 2) = 8.

I see.

I had context errors there.

I thought Hone Cavalry wasn't in play while Res+3 wasn't either.

I'm just glad I got a +spd to counter most Reins.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, shadowofchaos said:

I see.

I had context errors there.

I thought Hone Cavalry wasn't in play while Res+3 wasn't either.

I'm just glad I got a +spd to counter most Reins.

Everyone tells me +Spd is the bomb, but I cease to care every time I get one of these.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Everyone tells me +Spd is the bomb, but I cease to care every time I get one of these.

STAHP TRYING TO CONVINCE ME TO RAISE UP MY +ATK JULIA AAAAAAAA

[Junkhead]

3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Everyone tells me +Spd is the bomb, but I cease to care every time I get one of these.

uhhh what skill is she using.

Also, what are you playing it on?

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, Soul~! said:

uhhh what skill is she using.

Dragon Fang :P

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

uhhh what skill is she using.

Also, what are you playing it on?

P sure that is tempest

11 damage, and Julia have 52 base ATK. 58 with DB. Dragon Fang make that 40 damage

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

uhhh what skill is she using.

Also, what are you playing it on?

+Atk Death Blow 3 with Hone Atk 3 for that delicious 62 Atk. Reinhardt and Lucina both have Spur Atk if I need even more firepower for some reason, so that goes up to 70 Atk. Hello 35 damage Dragon Fang.

I'm just playing on my phone. Galaxy S6.

@JSND RAISE YOUR JULIA NERD OR I'LL TAKE SOMETHING ELSE

Edited June 27, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Junkhead]

Was wondering where people got these images. Resolution is insane.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

Was wondering where people got these images. Resolution is insane.

You can just screenshot on your iPad and upload them, and the resolution should be even more insane. I think. Though it might get a bit more pixel-y if it's not optimized for tablets I guess.

Edited June 27, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[shadowofchaos]

13 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Everyone tells me +Spd is the bomb, but I cease to care every time I get one of these.

It's just preference.

Like I whaled for Julia. I primarily didn't care what nature she was.

We pretty much do the same damage and I didn't have go Sacrifice Klein with +37 spd desperation.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

2 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

It's just preference.

Like I whaled for Julia. I primarily didn't care what nature she was.

We pretty much do the same damage and I didn't have go Sacrifice Klein with +37 spd desperation.

I actually spent 20k feathers on a 5* Ursula just so I could do this. I don't regret anything. I will make your Ruby Sword units explode. I've blown up Pallas and Hinatas before in Tempest Trials, even their buffed versions.

Edited June 27, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[XRay]

34 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Pivot among other means he can have cavalry movement and ignore forests on top of that. That is actually very exploitable gimmick. 

Basically you don't get how team work works. Getting Hector across map in turn or so is most trivial task you can get. It's hardly any unit fault you are unable do even that much.

Hector can only have one Assist at any one time. Swap allows him be very maneuverable in a local area, but he will take forever to get anywhere. Using Pivot means he cannot move diagonally, which is very important for a tank to get into formation properly. If you are using two crutches to get him somewhere far quickly, you are basically leaving the first crutch behind. Having the whole team slowly marching with Hector is not always feasible nor ideal.

Positioning is very important in this game due to the small maps and small movement ranges, and 1 movement range is not always going to cut it.

[Tenzen12]

Honestly I simply I can't imagine that. I don't remember even single time where I would have this kind of problem. Well I in general using Azura get any unit anywhere I need, but dancer is also pretty much mandatory unit outside of fliers or cavalry so I don't think that's problem either.

 

So either I am prodigy in moving Hector across map, or it's  you lacking skill. I will leave decision which is it  to you.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Junkhead]

19 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Honestly I simply I can't imagine that. I don't remember even single time where I would have this kind of problem. Well I in general using Azura get any unit anywhere I need, but dancer is also pretty much mandatory unit outside of fliers or cavalry so I don't think that's problem either.

So either I am prodigy in moving Hector across map, or it's  you lacking skill. I will leave decision which is it  to you.

Thing is, this is one of those things where people will argue against you in a theorethical plane. You have to show them this shit in practice. It's kind of like I always argued Edward is actually still pretty nuts in FE10 HM but people just strawman with "he can't dodge shit and wrath works against him".

To my actual topic in hand, I want to say how stupid it is to say Hawkeye may as well be obselette because X and Y just do his job better (when most of the time it's a 1RKO vs. 1RKO...for 10 more damage). Dude is still the solution to every Blue they ever threw at me while a friend keeps wondering how I get past Quick Riposte Camus or whatever. Like, this would actually be the case in traditional FE, where you do have access to every single one of said units in question. You can be good while still being worse than the ones above you, which seems to strike as alien concept to tier list enthusiasts.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Soul~!

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

5 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

Thing is, this is one of those things where people will argue against you in a theorethical plane. You have to show them this shit in practice. It's kind of like I always argued Edward is actually still pretty nuts in FE10 HM but people just strawman with "he can't dodge shit and wrath works against him".

Well, unless either you or @Tenzen12 record a video of multiple Arena matches (or a whole streak of 7 matches if you can) where you effectively use Hector without constantly being babied for positioning purposes and show it to us, "I don't have this problem" holds as much weight as you think the theoretical plane does.

Edited June 27, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Junkhead]

I don't even have Hector, I'm talking about him. I hope he can and prove all you fucks things aren't one-dimensional ABC logic.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

7 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

I don't even have Hector, I'm talking about him. I hope he can and prove all you fucks things aren't one-dimensional ABC logic.

Also, most of the people here actually play this game, believe it or not, some of them almost constantly. This theoretical plane you speak of also includes personal experience, from both people who use and fight against Hector. Not everyone who says Hector relies too much on teammate positioning is just "strawmanning".

This game is actually a lot more "one-dimensional ABC logic" than normal FEs because resource management is not considered in unit power discussion (since it's meaningless in a gacha game where what you get is random), and RNG is 100% gone.

Edited June 27, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[garrisoncade_3576]

Wrong thread. lol. 

I don't know what to say about Hawkeye since I never pulled him. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Smog

[Tenzen12]

Fighting against Hector and fighting with Hector  are two completely different matters though. Even Reinhardt is free kill in arena when he is on enemy side.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Tenzen12

[Junkhead]

7 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Also, most of the people here actually play this game, believe it or not, some of them almost constantly. This theoretical plane you speak of also includes personal experience, from both people who use and fight against Hector. Not everyone who says Hector relies too much on teammate positioning is just "strawmanning".

This game is actually a lot more "one-dimensional ABC logic" than normal FEs because resource management is not considered in unit power discussion (since it's meaningless in a gacha game where what you get is random), and RNG is 100% gone.

I like your point, too.

4 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Fighting against Hector and fighting with Hector  are two completely different matters though. Even Reinhardt is free kill in arena when he is on enemy side.

Yeah, if you're Hawkeye.

[Ice Dragon]

22 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

To my actual topic in hand, I want to say how stupid it is to say Hawkeye may as well be obselette because X and Y just do his job better (when most of the time it's a 1RKO vs. 1RKO...for 10 more damage). Dude is still the solution to every Blue they ever threw at me while a friend keeps wondering how I get past Quick Riposte Camus or whatever. Like, this would actually be the case in traditional FE, where you do have access to every single one of said units in question. You can be good while still being worse than the ones above you, which seems to strike as alien concept to tier list enthusiasts.

The main problem is that if the comparison is a one-round kill against a one-round kill for 10 more damage, that means against a different opponent, you're turning a not-quite-a-kill into a one-round kill.

The biggest problem Hawkeye has in being a tank is the fact that he's extremely slow, meaning he gets double attacked by a huge portion of the game, and that does cost him if he isn't running Triangle Adept in some capacity.

It's a similar situation as Sophia, who absolutely requires Triangle Adept to tank green opponents because otherwise she simply gets demolished by double attacks. However, Sophia has the advantage that she has access to Raudhrraven, giving her weapon triangle advantage against two colors, whereas Hawkeye can only have weapon triangle advantage against blue.

 

5 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Fighting against Hector and fighting with Hector  are two completely different matters though. Even Reinhardt is free kill in arena when he is on enemy side.

Nobody has even mentioned fighting against Hector in the past day, so I don't see how this helps your argument at all besides making it look like you've run out of relevant arguments.

[Tenzen12]

@SatsumaFSoysoy mentioned it, I just rebuked it. It's on this very page.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

5 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Fighting against Hector and fighting with Hector are two completely different matters though. Even Reinhardt is free kill in arena when he is on enemy side.

I mean, only ~30 units in the game can even survive a round where Reinhardt initiates (with 3 Mov, he's going to most of the time), of which only about 7 can counter kill him without inheriting Distant Counter, while the rest just have to suck it up and die. It gets even worse when it's Horse Emblem Reinhardt, or when they do the Quickened Pulse Moonbow thing (and even worse if they do both). It's a bit hard to call him free.

[Tenzen12]

If he is enemy you can either have him come to you or bait him with one of these seven either is option. So yes I call it free kill.

[XRay]

30 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Honestly I simply I can't imagine that. I don't remember even single time where I would have this kind of problem. Well I in general using Azura get any unit anywhere I need, but dancer is also pretty much mandatory unit outside of fliers or cavalry so I don't think that's problem either.

 

So either I am prodigy in moving Hector across map, or it's  you lacking skill. I will leave decision which is it  to you.

I admit that I am not the best at strategizing, but that only further undermines how not good Hector is. By the time I send Hector to the front lines, I could have just taken out half the enemy team with my dancer and glass cannon, or at the very least kill one and retreat. With Hector, it is pretty much all or nothing with little flexibility.

If you can enlighten me with a gameplay video that shows him and his team getting a deathless run and he is doing most of the killing, then I would gladly change sides. But my experience is that he is terrible the higher the Arena Tier you go because on many maps, enemies do not sit around and they will swarm Hector and kill him.