What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Florina's #1 Fan]

3 minutes ago, familyplayer said:

Wasn't it due to Alm going the other way and not wanting to encounter him?

If it was, that would just be petty. That would mean she risked her teammates so that she wouldn't have to face her personal problems.

1 minute ago, Lau said:

She wants to take the faster way, because it will literally get her to the temple faster. For all she knows, Mila could have been held captive in the temple. As for Mila betraying Zofia...she obviously didn't, but does Celica know that? How much does anyone know about Mila and Duma? They're gods, they have so much power, they could easily turn on them. Celica can't take that risk, she needs to see it with her own eyes. She hates violence, but so does almost every other lord in the series. But she's prepared for it. She knew before setting out from Novis that she'd have to fight, heck, it's why she hired Saber in the first place. And of course nobody trusts the Masked Knight. Would you? He comes out of nowhere at a time of war, in a mask of all things. They know nothing about him, so why would they trust him?

1. Mila has served Zofia for thousands of years, there wouldn't be reason for her to just abandon her country, nor would it be a reasonable conclusion to come to.
2. She hired Saber to protect her, not fight for her. He was a bodyguard for the pirates, not a soldier.
3. The Masked Knight protected her. If he was going to do something dangerous to her, he was close enough to do it. He's a paladin in-game, he's stronger than all of them.

1 minute ago, AzureSen said:

Celica isn't a pacifist, nor is she about talking things out. Her motivation for not wanting Alm to fight Rigel is based on two things: 1( she doesn't want Alm to die as per her premonition and 2( she thinks that once she finds Mila everything will be taken care of by Mila. Unfortunately, people seem to take her plea to Alm about Rigel at face value even when the game says otherwise.

If Mila was at the temple, and was no longer blessing Zofia, why would Celica appearing change things? She's going to tell a goddess to do her job?

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Adding to that, did Celica even had a way to know that Rudolph would, or could, seal Mila's power and drag her off? If not, then it's sensible for Celica to think she needs to hurry to the temple, since she thinks speaking to Mila can solve things. Considering the temple has become uncommunicated from the rest of Zofia, then she doesn't know the exact situation over there. Even if she can deduce it would be a target of Rigel, then if still not knowing they could remove her from the place, then that would only reinforce her desicion to head there as fast as possible.

 Again, telling a goddess to do her job is kind of nuts. It's sweet that she wants to try, though, I'll credit her for that, but considering that she is a valuable hostage and the enemy knows that, it would be better for someone else to go.

[wissenschaft]

"she's going to tell a goddess to do her job?"

Sure, why not? Goddess are lazy, didn't you know. lol

[Etrurian emperor]

Just now, wissenschaft said:

"she's going to tell a goddess to do her job?"

Sure, why not? Goddess are lazy, didn't you know. lol

In fact most gods in fiction are either evil or not doing their job. 

[Slumber]

42 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

In fact most gods in fiction are either evil or not doing their job. 

I'm having a hard time thinking of fictional stories where gods are wholly good and actually do their jobs.

Even if I were to sit for hours and try to come up with a list, I imagine based on my knowledge, you'd be able to count the amount of gods who fit that criteria on one hand.

Shit, even in my favorite game(Dragon Quest 7),

God's basically a troll who doesn't do anything against that game's version of the devil for shits and giggles, and is totally fine letting everyone think he's dead.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Slumber

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

If it was, that would just be petty. That would mean she risked her teammates so that she wouldn't have to face her personal problems.

If it was, that'd actually be a good thing since it shows Celica has flaws, something 95% of all Lords in the series don't have.

2 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Mila has served Zofia for thousands of years, there wouldn't be reason for her to just abandon her country, nor would it be a reasonable conclusion to come to.

Rigel had broken the Divine Accord, which stated that the two nations would never be at war. From Celica's perspective, the entire world had been turned upside down. Her faith in Mila had her convinced that something was wrong with Mila, and so, she departed to the Temple to investigate.

2 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

She hired Saber to protect her, not fight for her. He was a bodyguard for the pirates, not a soldier.

The protection from the pirates was only part of the deal. She hired Saber to protect them until they reached the Temple of Mila. 

2 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

The Masked Knight protected her. If he was going to do something dangerous to her, he was close enough to do it. He's a paladin in-game, he's stronger than all of them.

Protection =/= trust. They didn't even know the Masked Knight's name until halfway through Act 4. Before that, sure, Conrad protected them, but who's to say it was all a trap to get them to trust him, so he would strike later? They only earned Conrad's trust at the end of Act 3. Before that, he could've easily been thought as a clever enemy trying to infiltrate the group.

2 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

If Mila was at the temple, and was no longer blessing Zofia, why would Celica appearing change things? She's going to tell a goddess to do her job?

Telling Gods and Goddess what to do in fiction are more common than you think. Either that, or the God/Goddess is evil and must be killed.

Spoiler

Like, remember the time where Ash told Arceus (a.k.a God) what to do?

3 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

I'll credit her for that, but considering that she is a valuable hostage and the enemy knows that, it would be better for someone else to go.

Who though? The Deliverance? They are fighting Rigel on the western front. Could they go to the Temple of Mila? They could, in theory, but there are things to consider. 

1. A landslide has divided eastern and western Zofia. An army would have trouble getting across it.
2. The Rigelian army was holding the western Sluice Gate in an attempt to flood Zofia.
3. Desaix's fortress is in western Zofia. Taking down Desaix is one of the Deliverance's main priorities.
4. Rigel castle is on the western side of Valentia. Being on the west side of Zofia already puts them closer to their goal.

Because of this, going to the Temple of Mila would delay the campaign. That and the Temple isn't really the Deliverance's main priority. So if they Deliverance can't go, who else? Besides, you forget that Celica is actually Princess Anthiese. Being a princess of the royal family of Zofia would likely allow Celica to have some influence over Mila. Celica's actually the best person to to head to the Temple tbh.

 

[Florina's #1 Fan]

10 minutes ago, Armagon said:

If it was, that'd actually be a good thing since it shows Celica has flaws, something 95% of all Lords in the series don't have.

Yeah, I guess, but I don't like her for that particular flaw. I like having a flawed hero, but to choose not to meet up with someone who won't impact your campaign just because you feel bad about an argument, which is especially stupid because it puts your comrades in danger, that just doesn't make sense to me.

17 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Rigel had broken the Divine Accord, which stated that the two nations would never be at war. From Celica's perspective, the entire world had been turned upside down. Her faith in Mila had her convinced that something was wrong with Mila, and so, she departed to the Temple to investigate.

Yeah, with almost no one helping her. She didn't have a party outside of two mages who have almost no experience, a cleric, and herself. She, a royal princess who is an extremely valuable hostage, went with three other people who had very little idea how to protect her. She picked up Saber, yes, but Saber isn't an army, and it was dumb for her to throw herself into a volatile situation when she was such an important target.

26 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Protection =/= trust. They didn't even know the Masked Knight's name until halfway through Act 4. Before that, sure, Conrad protected them, but who's to say it was all a trap to get them to trust him, so he would strike later? They only earned Conrad's trust at the end of Act 3. Before that, he could've easily been thought as a clever enemy trying to infiltrate the group.

Except no one could have stopped Conrad if he had bad intentions. He is far stronger than all of them, if he wanted to anything bad, he would have done it. Why would he bother to strike later if he could eliminate them all on the spot?

34 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Who though? The Deliverance? They are fighting Rigel on the western front. Could they go to the Temple of Mila? They could, in theory, but there are things to consider. 

1. A landslide has divided eastern and western Zofia. An army would have trouble getting across it.
2. The Rigelian army was holding the western Sluice Gate in an attempt to flood Zofia.
3. Desaix's fortress is in western Zofia. Taking down Desaix is one of the Deliverance's main priorities.
4. Rigel castle is on the western side of Valentia. Being on the west side of Zofia already puts them closer to their goal.

Because of this, going to the Temple of Mila would delay the campaign. That and the Temple isn't really the Deliverance's main priority. So if they Deliverance can't go, who else? Besides, you forget that Celica is actually Princess Anthiese. Being a princess of the royal family of Zofia would likely allow Celica to have some influence over Mila. Celica's actually the best person to to head to the Temple tbh.

I'm not saying the Deliverance should do it. I honestly don't know who would. It just isn't smart for her to go when she's so valuable. And honestly, I don't know why Mila would care any more if she's the princess, she's a goddess, if she's as uninterested in working as a goddess as you make it sound, she won't be any more fazed when she's talking to Celica. I just believe Celica should've at least thought a little more about how important she is and how dangerous it is to go with almost nobody helping her.

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

She, a royal princess who is an extremely valuable hostage,

Except only a few people know that she's actually a princess. The only ones who knew were the people at Novis, Grieth (because one of his henchmen saw her birthmark.....somehow) and Jedah. Sure, the Duma Faithful is trying to kidnap Celica, but they aren't trying to use her as a hostage. Grieth wouldn't use her a hostage either.

6 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

went with three other people who had very little idea how to protect her.

That's factually incorrect. It is stated that Mae and Boey trained for the moment where they would have to protect Celica. And if Mae and Boey recived that training, i'm sure Genny did as well. Not to mention that Celica herself is stated to be a capable fighter. As for Saber, he's considered to be a strong mercenary. Because of this, saying that Celica's group had little idea of how to protect her is just wrong.

15 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Except no one could have stopped Conrad if he had bad intentions. He is far stronger than all of them, if he wanted to anything bad, he would have done it. Why would he bother to strike later if he could eliminate them all on the spot?

I'm sure Saber could easily fight Conrad. I think you're making Conrad sound far stronger than he actually is. He's a capable fighter, no doubt, but Saber is pretty skilled himself. As for Conrad possibly striking later, it theoretically could be a part of his plan.

8 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

dumb for her to throw herself into a volatile situation when she was such an important target.

11 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

It just isn't smart for her to go when she's so valuable

So she should just stay at home then? By that logic, every Lord except maybe Ike should just stay at home, because otherwise, they would be an important target.

Despite the fact that Celica's royal blood was a secret, she very well knew the risks of leaving. Why is it ok for every Lord in the series to take risks but not Celica?

14 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

And honestly, I don't know why Mila would care any more if she's the princess, she's a goddess, if she's as uninterested in working as a goddess as you make it sound, she won't be any more fazed when she's talking to Celica.

I never said Mila was uninterested in working as a Goddess. I mean, she was *very* angry at Rigel breaking the Divine Accord. There's also the fact that Celica bears the Brand of Mila. While Celica herself may not know what it means, Mila most definitely does. Given Mila's nature, i'm sure she would at least listen to Celica.

[Harvey]

On 08/09/2017 at 11:26 PM, SoulWeaver said:

Raven is…Blazing Sword, right? I don't know much about him because I haven't played it yet, but I have felt kind of weird looking at Mercenaries like Gregor or technically Inigo(I mean, he IS Mercenary Class when you recruit him) and trying to piece together how he fits into the somewhat stereotypical mercenary ideal most of us have, so he sounds like he would be interesting to see. In Gregor's case, I mostly just gave up and assumed he got old enough that he didn't give a crap any more.

Inigo....is really an oddball. I can't really understand why IS put him as a mercenary. He's better off being a dancer or an archer. Even Jesse is better than him.

The thing about the latest entries or atleast in most games is that mercenary units are a total joke as characters. Most of them just do it for charity or don't do so much as to explain why they decided to even be mercenaries to begin with. There is really no reason for Sevara to be in the mercenary class as she's better of being a myrmidon. 

Then there's the confusion of units being called as mercenaries but are in different classes like Farina, Jerrot, Treck and Noah for example. While FE6 explains that Illia is cold and agriculture is limited there so mercenaries are a way of income for Illia, none of the mercenaries that you encounter in that game actually make money for Illia unless I'm mistaken here( I guess Jerrot and his crew counts but then again, they volunteered to help Roy even if the price wasn't that great.)

I guess my main gripe here is that a mercenary is someone who makes money without any kind of ethics whatsoever. None of the mercenaries except Raven(to some extent) follow this and its just making me wonder whether IS actually knows what mercenaries are. 

Granted, Raven doesn't really follow the mercenary type due to him having a soft spot with his sister but he comes really close fitting that class.

 

 

[Slumber]

12 hours ago, Harvey said:

Inigo....is really an oddball. I can't really understand why IS put him as a mercenary. He's better off being a dancer or an archer. Even Jesse is better than him.

The thing about the latest entries or atleast in most games is that mercenary units are a total joke as characters. Most of them just do it for charity or don't do so much as to explain why they decided to even be mercenaries to begin with. There is really no reason for Sevara to be in the mercenary class as she's better of being a myrmidon. 

Then there's the confusion of units being called as mercenaries but are in different classes like Farina, Jerrot, Treck and Noah for example. While FE6 explains that Illia is cold and agriculture is limited there so mercenaries are a way of income for Illia, none of the mercenaries that you encounter in that game actually make money for Illia unless I'm mistaken here( I guess Jerrot and his crew counts but then again, they volunteered to help Roy even if the price wasn't that great.)

Goddamn you say things that make it really hard to ignore you.

12 hours ago, Harvey said:

I guess my main gripe here is that a mercenary is someone who makes money without any kind of ethics whatsoever. None of the mercenaries except Raven(to some extent) follow this and its just making me wonder whether IS actually knows what mercenaries are.

Granted, Raven doesn't really follow the mercenary type due to him having a soft spot with his sister but he comes really close fitting that class.

Do you actually know what mercenaries are?

Yes, mercenaries IRL fight for money, but that's not the ONLY thing that drives a mercenary. In short, they made fighting a business. And like any good business, they often had discriminatory practices that kept them from serving certain causes for ethical or other potentical financial reasons. There are many accounts of mercenary leaders being killed by their own men because the leaders were making their men do too many unethical atrocities.

Many mercenaries bands also sided with armies that benefited their countries as a whole(IE Welsh mercenaries siding with France against England during the 100 Years War because England was in the middle of annexing Wales) over greater potential personal gain.

Now, obviously there are plenty of mercenaries throughout history who completely tossed morals and ethics to the side for financial gain, but mercenaries are/were humans. Many were likely sociopaths(You'd kind of have to be to go out and harm/kill people when money was tossed your way, no money asked), but they weren't just mindless drones who had a murder switch flipped when money was tossed their way. And obviously of the Fire Emblem mercenaries, we tend to get the ones who aren't sociopaths, because otherwise we'd have a hard time rooting for them.

Same reason we get sympathetic assassins(No explanation needed) and berserkers(Who IRL likely did hallucinogenic drugs and murdered their own comrades in the middle of fights). Even when we get implicitly sociopathic assassins(Volke), they're not outright bad or immoral. We've only ever gotten a handful of characters in the franchise without any clear morals or ethics(Lifis, Oliver). I think if there was a WHOLE class that had to be devoid of ethics and morals, we'd get the same character over and over, and we'd know exactly what we'd be getting each time.

I don't even know what you mean by saying "Raven follows this", since Raven's one of the mercs in the series never asks for a single gold coin in his game, is motivated almost purely by his hatred of Ostia, and only switches sides because he loves his sister. Hell, he offers to fight for Laus for free.

List of things Raven does in FE7:

1) Fight for his sister and close friend

2) Not ask for any money

By your own definition, Raven is the opposite of a mercenary.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Slumber

[familyplayer]

58 minutes ago, Slumber said:

We've only ever gotten a handful of characters in the franchise without any clear morals or ethics(Lifis, Oliver)

You're forgetting Peri, but I think that's for the best if you do forget about her. I know I want to...

[Florina's #1 Fan]

16 hours ago, Armagon said:

Except only a few people know that she's actually a princess. The only ones who knew were the people at Novis, Grieth (because one of his henchmen saw her birthmark.....somehow) and Jedah. Sure, the Duma Faithful is trying to kidnap Celica, but they aren't trying to use her as a hostage. Grieth wouldn't use her a hostage either.

That's factually incorrect. It is stated that Mae and Boey trained for the moment where they would have to protect Celica. And if Mae and Boey recived that training, i'm sure Genny did as well. Not to mention that Celica herself is stated to be a capable fighter. As for Saber, he's considered to be a strong mercenary. Because of this, saying that Celica's group had little idea of how to protect her is just wrong.

You're right, I shouldn't have said hostage. I should've said she's the only hope for the country and she isn't thinking enough about what would happen if she died. She's serving her purpose, yes, but I just find it a bit reckless.

Mae and Boey said in their supports that they had never actually used their magic to fight/kill people, Mae even sounded like they. They were scared and they were inexperienced. They're trained to protect her, yes, but she was lucky they were willing to "pull the trigger", per say, and they don't have any actual combat experience.

16 hours ago, Armagon said:

I'm sure Saber could easily fight Conrad. I think you're making Conrad sound far stronger than he actually is. He's a capable fighter, no doubt, but Saber is pretty skilled himself. As for Conrad possibly striking later, it theoretically could be a part of his plan.

So she should just stay at home then? By that logic, every Lord except maybe Ike should just stay at home, because otherwise, they would be an important target.

Despite the fact that Celica's royal blood was a secret, she very well knew the risks of leaving. Why is it ok for every Lord in the series to take risks but not Celica?

I never said Mila was uninterested in working as a Goddess. I mean, she was *very* angry at Rigel breaking the Divine Accord. There's also the fact that Celica bears the Brand of Mila. While Celica herself may not know what it means, Mila most definitely does. Given Mila's nature, i'm sure she would at least listen to Celica.

Saber couldn't fight Conrad. In the FE games, especially in the beginning, the promoted units are almost always considered stronger than those who aren't, even when they are eventually overshadowed. Conrad could totally kill Saber, especially because of the weapon disadvantage Saber has naturally.

Honestly, I didn't want to get into an argument about why Lords go into battle. I just don't like Celica as a character. I don't agree with the decisions she makes, I don't like her dialogue, and when I said that she just should not go, I admit I was wrong, I just find it hard to believe that no one else wants to check out what's going on with Mila. It's my unpopular opinion, but I generally find Celica annoying, and I don't like her. So when she goes off with zero guards that have combat experience and a sort-of idea that she can fix whatever is going on, it just bothers me. That's also why Alm bothers me, especially because Clive just gives Alm control of The Deliverance because he's related to Mycen and he is relatable to the commoners, even though Alm doesn't have much experience either.

Marth has Jagen, Eirika has Seth, Eliwood and Roy have Marcus, and Celica has...Saber. Whom she knows almost nothing about. Alm has Clive and Lukas, much more guidance than a shady merc that Celica just picked up from a bar. I just can't find myself justifying her decisions. I don't like her :\

[Etrurian emperor]

3 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

I just find it hard to believe that no one else wants to check out what's going on with Mila

Actually that mercenary guarding the path to the temple tells Celica that lots of people have tried to reach the temple before her and that he ensured none of those people ever made it. 

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

In the FE games, especially in the beginning, the promoted units are almost always considered stronger than those who aren't, even when they are eventually overshadowed.

So technically, Celica could totally fight Conrad to at least a draw. Because Celica's starting class is Priestess, the promotion of the female Mage.

4 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

I just find it hard to believe that no one else wants to check out what's going on with Mila.

An NPC in Zofia Castle states that people went to the Temple to see what was wrong and that none of them returned because that's how it always is in every RPG ever.

6 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

That's also why Alm bothers me, especially because Clive just gives Alm control of The Deliverance because he's related to Mycen and he is relatable to the commoners, even though Alm doesn't have much experience either.

Alm being made leader of the Deliverance was just a PR move. Clive even said that he would still be handling everything else. And i disagree about Alm not having much experience. Alm was trained by Mycen in more than just the sword. I'd argue Alm had about as much experience as every other Lord (except maybe Sigurd) at the start of their journey and by the time he reached the Deliverance Hideout, he already had a few battles under his belt. If Alm shouldn't be made leader of the Deliverance because of "lack of experience", then every Lord who isn't Sigurd should have also never been made leader of their armies.

 

[CriticalMiss]

23 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Saber couldn't fight Conrad. In the FE games, especially in the beginning, the promoted units are almost always considered stronger than those who aren't, even when they are eventually overshadowed. Conrad could totally kill Saber, especially because of the weapon disadvantage Saber has naturally.

There's no weapon triangle in Echoes though, so there's no weapon disadvantage. Also, it wouldn't have to be a one-on-one fight. In a battle in which Celica, Mae, Boey, Genny, Saber, Valbar, Leon, and Kamui are all fighting against Conrad, I know which side I would take.

Edited September 10, 2017 by CriticalMiss

[Florina's #1 Fan]

Just now, Armagon said:

...then every Lord who isn't Sigurd should have also never been made leader of their armies.

They honestly shouldn't have been. "Potential to be a great leader" and "inspirational speeches" should not be the only quality you look for in a leader, try experience.

10 minutes ago, Armagon said:

So technically, Celica could totally fight Conrad to at least a draw. Because Celica's starting class is Priestess, the promotion of the female Mage.

Except Conrad is more trained than Celica and she has poor defenses. But I don't want to get technical about that.

11 minutes ago, CriticalMiss said:

There's no weapon triangle in Echoes though, so there's no weapon disadvantage. Also, it wouldn't have to be a one-on-one fight. In a battle between Celica, Mae, Boey, Genny, Saber, Valbar, Leon, and Kamui against Conrad, I know which side I would take.

...Fair enough :\ But really, it would start with Celica getting killed. Only Saber was in a position to immediately get in Conrad's way.

22 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Alm being made leader of the Deliverance was just a PR move. Clive even said that he would still be handling everything else.

And i disagree about Alm not having much experience

But Clive didn't end up handling everything else. He was planning to, but Alm proved to be a popular leader, even if Clive had more experience. And experience isn't just training, it's actually being in real battles . So no, Alm doesn't have experience. Sigurd may be the only one that does, but Alm was picked to come because he was related to Mycen, not because he could fight well, though he was more ready than past lords have been (Eirika, I'm looking at you)

[Florina's #1 Fan]

But really, I was only on here to post my unpopular opinion of disliking Celica, not to get into this whole debate. My opinion is unpopular, that was the purpose of this thread :|

[Chad Radwell]

Uhhhhh this one might start fights so I'm gonna put it under a spoiler. If you don't wanna see me getting semi-emotional about the portrayal of women then don't open this lmao

Spoiler

Okay, I have another one that's like, semi-related to what I said about fragile feminine peggos in the other thread about overused tropes: I think the reason that bothers me so much is because I'm super tired of the fetishization of pure innocent maidens that's so prevalent in JRPG culture, Fire Emblem included. It's alienating, as a girl who's pretty rough around the edges IRL, to be given characters like that time after time and told that women who lean more masculine, or stray away from shy housewaifu traits, or even just have a physically larger frame, are less "pure" and therefore less beautiful/worthy of leading roles. (And it makes me sad to see this reinforced by parts of the fandom, too. I get not liking Camilla as a character; there's a lot you can pick on to dislike about her. I don't get giving her shit for her body type or implying that her boobs are what make her bad, because I look like that, lmao.)

And honestly, this was a totally subconscious thing with me until Awakening, because Sully was the first character I saw in these games who made me actually stop and think about it. Yes, there were obviously characters who weren't all teeny waifs before that point, but Sully was the most accessible and it was super fun to get to know her in game. She's like me! I haven't played Echoes yet, so it's disappointing to look at Fates as the most recent game (in my mind) and see it still doing this shit with Azura, acting like she's the best girl for being graceful and thin and feminine and frail and...not much other than that. 

Let it be known that I'm not pulling a Sarkeesian on you guys or anything; no one is in the wrong for liking these characters, OBVIOUSLLYYYYYYY. I even like a fair amount of them. Personal preference, and the fact that this is an unpopular opinions thread, just makes me RRRREALLY want to see more cool butch women in important roles. (Hinoka is kind of disappointing because she's such a bipolar, volatile disaster with little consistency in characterization between paths, but that's for another day.) 

Please don't shit down my throat for saying this, loool.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Chad Radwell

[CriticalMiss]

@Chad Radwell I second your wish for future games as I also feel FE has done very poorly in that regard.

[Chad Radwell]

5 minutes ago, CriticalMiss said:

@Chad Radwell I second your wish for future games as I also feel FE has done very poorly in that regard.

Right!! Just once I'd like them to shake it up a bit and have the main gal/love interest be bigger, tougher and less designed to appeal to traditional waifu qualities, just to see how it goes. We almost got a secondary one with Scarlet/Ryoma...and then she died. Sigh.

[eclipse]

45 minutes ago, Chad Radwell said:

Uhhhhh this one might start fights so I'm gonna put it under a spoiler. If you don't wanna see me getting semi-emotional about the portrayal of women then don't open this lmao

  Reveal hidden contents

Okay, I have another one that's like, semi-related to what I said about fragile feminine peggos in the other thread about overused tropes: I think the reason that bothers me so much is because I'm super tired of the fetishization of pure innocent maidens that's so prevalent in JRPG culture, Fire Emblem included. It's alienating, as a girl who's pretty rough around the edges IRL, to be given characters like that time after time and told that women who lean more masculine, or stray away from shy housewaifu traits, or even just have a physically larger frame, are less "pure" and therefore less beautiful/worthy of leading roles. (And it makes me sad to see this reinforced by parts of the fandom, too. I get not liking Camilla as a character; there's a lot you can pick on to dislike about her. I don't get giving her shit for her body type or implying that her boobs are what make her bad, because I look like that, lmao.)

And honestly, this was a totally subconscious thing with me until Awakening, because Sully was the first character I saw in these games who made me actually stop and think about it. Yes, there were obviously characters who weren't all teeny waifs before that point, but Sully was the most accessible and it was super fun to get to know her in game. She's like me! I haven't played Echoes yet, so it's disappointing to look at Fates as the most recent game (in my mind) and see it still doing this shit with Azura, acting like she's the best girl for being graceful and thin and feminine and frail and...not much other than that. 

Let it be known that I'm not pulling a Sarkeesian on you guys or anything; no one is in the wrong for liking these characters, OBVIOUSLLYYYYYYY. I even like a fair amount of them. Personal preference, and the fact that this is an unpopular opinions thread, just makes me RRRREALLY want to see more cool butch women in important roles. (Hinoka is kind of disappointing because she's such a bipolar, volatile disaster with little consistency in characterization between paths, but that's for another day.) 

Please don't shit down my throat for saying this, loool.

The only offensive thing about this post is the fact that it's really hard to read on Night Forest.

This could be expanded to attractiveness/body types in general.  How many plain/ugly people are recruitable in FE?  What about the bosses? Especially the non-sympathetic ones.  It's something that's annoyed me for the longest time.

[Von Ithipathachai]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

The only offensive thing about this post is the fact that it's really hard to read on Night Forest.

This could be expanded to attractiveness/body types in general.  How many plain/ugly people are recruitable in FE?  What about the bosses? Especially the non-sympathetic ones.  It's something that's annoyed me for the longest time.

Gonzalez and Arden are literally the only "ugly" recruitable characters that I can think of.

[Chad Radwell]

16 minutes ago, eclipse said:

The only offensive thing about this post is the fact that it's really hard to read on Night Forest.

This could be expanded to attractiveness/body types in general.  How many plain/ugly people are recruitable in FE?  What about the bosses? Especially the non-sympathetic ones.  It's something that's annoyed me for the longest time.

Right!! I specifically only mentioned lady peggos because that's such a common archetype and I was already talking about it, but for sure it covers most of the overall cast. The Lords in particular have it bad, too. They come in three flavors: "Twink", "Hector", and "Girlfriend", and all of them are young, hot, and wholesome. I think a Lord on the older end of things (and I mean actually older, not Sigurd "old" lmao) would be a neat twist, for instance. Sure, they have to be appealing to sell the game, but they can be appealing in lots of different ways. Or, barring that, I would still like for the next avatar, if we get another one, to have a skin tone slider and/or the ability to have a beefier body type than "high school soccer player" (thanks for being a sign of progress once again, Corrin.)

20 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Gonzalez and Arden are literally the only "ugly" recruitable characters that I can think of.

Aw, I love Gonzalez! Benny comes to mind too, but then, I never even found him ugly - his design is actually pretty cool imo. The game just tells you he's ugly for some reason.

There's also Devdanveddvenavdann but um, I'm not sure if he was intended to be ugly, or if he's just off-model? His spray tan is a little silly but he isn't that bad either.

I really enjoy all of the above characters, haha. They're memorable in a different way. I guess that says something, doesn't it? 

[Ace Pelleas]

Nephenee is toooooo overrated(Still good,but overrated)

Lyn is probably the worst FE character I can think of.

Ike's inclusion on FE10 was kinda forced

I used to hate Soren, but now I do see him as an interesting chracter

FE2 is good, despite all the hate. The opposite could be said to FE10 although

Sacred Stones isn't that easy....(Phantom Ship)

[Florina's #1 Fan]

2 hours ago, Chad Radwell said:

Uhhhhh this one might start fights so I'm gonna put it under a spoiler. If you don't wanna see me getting semi-emotional about the portrayal of women then don't open this lmao

I absolutely and totally agree with you. That's one of the reasons I don't like Celica. The gentle maiden thing is so tired.

[eclipse]

1 hour ago, Chad Radwell said:

Right!! I specifically only mentioned lady peggos because that's such a common archetype and I was already talking about it, but for sure it covers most of the overall cast. The Lords in particular have it bad, too. They come in three flavors: "Twink", "Hector", and "Girlfriend", and all of them are young, hot, and wholesome. I think a Lord on the older end of things (and I mean actually older, not Sigurd "old" lmao) would be a neat twist, for instance. Sure, they have to be appealing to sell the game, but they can be appealing in lots of different ways. Or, barring that, I would still like for the next avatar, if we get another one, to have a skin tone slider and/or the ability to have a beefier body type than "high school soccer player" (thanks for being a sign of progress once again, Corrin.)

It goes both ways.  Your cast is good-looking, the enemies are not, unless they're sympathetic villains.  I'd love a game with good-looking enemies and average-to-ugly recruitables.  Makes it a bit more realistic IMO, since your enemies may be better-looking than you, and your allies might not be.