What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[FRZNHeir]

Just now, Lord Chrom of Ylisse said:

Maybe I'll start seeing it's flaws once I come back to it after playing older FE games.

Maybe. Of course, Awakening improved on a lot of the FE games. The support system rework is the best example. It really just boils down to how harsh you judge all the FE games.

[Greencapps]

12 minutes ago, FRZNHeir said:

Awakening, in my opinion, is just a decent FE game. Not amazing, but decent. It does well with the constant references and call backs to the older Fire Emblem games, and the Support reworked support system is just lovely, however, the plot is filled with mistakes that could be corrected if the characters had done a tiny bit of thinking, but for the most part those can be overlooked due to the cast of relatively likable characters. The issues I have with it are what it did the series as a whole personally, with putting the emphasis on the Avatar units, it allows for slightly more immersion into the series, but turned the focus into a sort of wish fulfillment series as far as the supports go, which Fates showcases the issues of. The child units in the game had a good reason to be in the game story-wise, but it was so well-received that it caused IS to poorly implement it into Fates.
The game is a good game, and was good for the series, but for older fans of the franchise like me, it seemed to have caused a small lowering in quality, or at least that is the general opinion. 

I think calling Awakening bad because of how Fates turned out is unfair. If dislike the game as an isolated thing for it's own issues that's one thing but blaming one game for another's shortcomings is another thing entirely. If the avatar and child stuff had stayed in Awakening and Fates was something else entirely I think the game would have been another's black sheep like Gaiden. Not great but not terrible either. Awakening isn't a perfect game by any means but I feel a lot of the hate from Fates has unjustifiably spilled over into Awakening cause it barrows so much from it.

Plus maybe a hair of elitism from some veteran fans against the different demographic it brought to the series because of the waifu elements.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Greencapps

[FRZNHeir]

3 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

I think calling Awakening bad because of how Fates turned out is unfair. If dislike the game as an isolated thing for it's own issues that's one thing but blaming one game for another's shortcomings is another thing entirely. If the avatar and child stuff had stayed in Awakening and Fates was something else entirely I think the game would have been another's black sheep like Gaiden. Not great but not terrible either. Awakening isn't a perfect game by any means but I feel a lot of the hate from Fates has unjustifiably spilled over into Awakening cause it barrows  so much from it.

I enjoyed Fates quite a bit (to the point where I got the limited edition Fates 3DS just to play it) however, some of the non-plot related issues came from IS trying to poorly implement features that worked well (and were popular) in Awakening. That was the point I was trying to make, is that the features that were popular in Awakening ended up being poorly implemented in Fates, and has caused, in the eyes of some of the older FE players, a decrease in the quality of the series. 
I agree with the hate for Fates spilling over to Awakening. It is slightly unfair, but it happens.

Edited October 18, 2017 by FRZNHeir
Cut myself off.

[Greencapps]

4 minutes ago, FRZNHeir said:

I enjoyed Fates quite a bit (to the point where I got the limited edition Fates 3DS just to play it) however, some of the non-plot related issues came from IS trying to poorly implement features that worked well (and were popular) in Awakening.

Yea that's what I was getting at.

I also find it kinda weird how Awakening kinda caused a schism in the fan base for making FE "Waifu Emblem" when it's really Fates that cemented the mechanic  as a core part of the series. Awakening could have, and probably should have, been a one off with many of its mechanics.

I feel more people hate it for what it caused rather than the game itself.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[FRZNHeir]

1 minute ago, Greencapps said:

Yea that's what I was getting at.

I also find it kinda weird how Awakening kinda caused a schism in the fan base for making FE "Waifu Emblem" when it's really Fates that cemented the mechanic  as a core part of the series. Awakening could have, and probably should have, been a one off with many of its mechanics.

I feel more people hate it for what it caused rather than the game itself.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That seems like a correct feeling. Personally, I think that Fates is the worst FE game, but I love it because it is Fire Emblem. I love all FE games. Even the ones I haven't played.

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, FRZNHeir said:

Awakening, in my opinion, is just a decent FE game. Not amazing, but decent. It does well with the constant references and call backs to the older Fire Emblem games, and the Support reworked support system is just lovely, however, the plot is filled with mistakes that could be corrected if the characters had done a tiny bit of thinking, but for the most part those can be overlooked due to the cast of relatively likable characters. The issues I have with it are what it did the series as a whole personally, with putting the emphasis on the Avatar units, it allows for slightly more immersion into the series, but turned the focus into a sort of wish fulfillment series as far as the supports go, which Fates showcases the issues of. The child units in the game had a good reason to be in the game story-wise, but it was so well-received that it caused IS to poorly implement it into Fates.
The game is a good game, and was good for the series, but for older fans of the franchise like me, it seemed to have caused a small lowering in quality, or at least that is the general opinion. 

1 hour ago, FRZNHeir said:

I enjoyed Fates quite a bit (to the point where I got the limited edition Fates 3DS just to play it) however, some of the non-plot related issues came from IS trying to poorly implement features that worked well (and were popular) in Awakening. That was the point I was trying to make, is that the features that were popular in Awakening ended up being poorly implemented in Fates, and has caused, in the eyes of some of the older FE players, a decrease in the quality of the series. 
I agree with the hate for Fates spilling over to Awakening. It is slightly unfair, but it happens.

Then that's Fates fault for doing it poorly. If anything, wouldn't that mean that Fates lowered the standards by poorly implementing things Awakening did?

1 hour ago, Greencapps said:

Yea that's what I was getting at.

I also find it kinda weird how Awakening kinda caused a schism in the fan base for making FE "Waifu Emblem" when it's really Fates that cemented the mechanic  as a core part of the series. Awakening could have, and probably should have, been a one off with many of its mechanics.

I feel more people hate it for what it caused rather than the game itself.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Awakening wasn't even that waifu...ish. It had S supports, but that's not that huge. It gives you access to the kids, but who you pair them with doesn't affect that outside of mild changes.

[Greencapps]

1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

Then that's Fates fault for doing it poorly. If anything, wouldn't that mean that Fates lowered the standards by poorly implementing things Awakening did?

Awakening wasn't even that waifu...ish. It had S supports, but that's not that huge. It gives you access to the kids, but who you pair them with doesn't affect that outside of mild changes.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

I fail to see what the problem is here.

[Lord Chrom of Ylisse]

2 hours ago, Greencapps said:

Plus maybe a hair of elitism from some veteran fans against the different demographic it brought to the series because of the waifu elements.

 

2 hours ago, Greencapps said:

I also find it kinda weird how Awakening kinda caused a schism in the fan base for making FE "Waifu Emblem" when it's really Fates that cemented the mechanic  as a core part of the series.

I always hear people talking about people who play Fire Emblem for Waifus but I've never seen these people online or in real life. I think the extent of the "Waifu Emblem" phenomenon is greatly exaggerated.

[Slumber]

2 hours ago, Lord Chrom of Ylisse said:

 

I always hear people talking about people who play Fire Emblem for Waifus but I've never seen these people online or in real life. I think the extent of the "Waifu Emblem" phenomenon is greatly exaggerated.

They exist. Even within Nintendo.

The Warriors Treehouse demo during E3 had Audrey gushing over her "Husbando"(Yes, she said that) Xander. Then there's the person at IGN who reviewed Echoes who knocked off points because they couldn't marry Saber as Celica. For two more, "high profile" cases of Waifu/Husbando obsession within the FE playerbase.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Slumber

[Tolvir]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

They exist. Even within Nintendo.

The Warriors Treehouse demo during E3 had Audrey gushing over her "Husbando"(Yes, she said that) Xander. Then there's the person at IGN who reviewed Echoes who knocked off points because they couldn't marry Saber as Celica. For two more, "high profile" cases of Waifu/Husbando obsession within the FE playerbase.

I dont know if they would be within the fanbase, but I agree its there. Is it as prevelant as people make it out to be? Not really, but its there. Stereotypes and broad statements start somewhere based on truth.

[Slumber]

11 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

I dont know if they would be within the fanbase, but I agree its there. Is it as prevelant as people make it out to be? Not really, but its there. Stereotypes and broad statements start somewhere based on truth.

Yeah, I said "playerbase" pretty deliberately. I was hesitant to say "fanbase" or "community", because I don't think that they're that deep into the franchise to go that far. They play the FE games, regardless.

But as silly as this might sound, they're probably pretty good representations of the "casual" Fire Emblem playerbase that mostly exploded after Awakening. Which might be why the more hardcore fanbase that spends its time on message boards and forums talking about it don't encounter it as often as it seems.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Slumber

[Tolvir]

Just now, Slumber said:

Yeah, I said "playerbase" pretty deliberately. I was hesitant to say "fanbase" or "community", because I don't think that they're that deep into the franchise to go that far.

But as silly as this might sound, they're probably pretty good representations of the "casual" Fire Emblem playerbase that mostly exploded after Awakening.

That is true. Awakening and then Fates really brought in a few other crowds of people. For better and for worst.

[Lord Chrom of Ylisse]

2 hours ago, Slumber said:

They exist. Even within Nintendo.

The Warriors Treehouse demo during E3 had Audrey gushing over her "Husbando"(Yes, she said that) Xander. Then there's the person at IGN who reviewed Echoes who knocked off points because they couldn't marry Saber as Celica. For two more, "high profile" cases of Waifu/Husbando obsession within the FE playerbase.

I'm talking about people for whom that's the main reason they play the games.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Lord Chrom of Ylisse

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yeah the dating/pairing aspects of the games are definitely a big deal to a lot of players, even if probably not many of them hang out here relatively.

I don't really go in for it myself and I think it has some unfortunate ramifications, but I certainly don't think the overall games have become worse because of it and I feel a lot of the hate that Awakening/Fates get are just from fans who are angry that their favourite games in the series aren't the one with broad public recognition.

[Arthur97]

2 hours ago, Tolvir said:

That is true. Awakening and then Fates really brought in a few other crowds of people. For better and for worst.

How could it be worse that they expanded the fanbase?

[Zasplach]

19 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

How could it be worse that they expanded the fanbase?

Hypothetically speaking, not making any claims, expanding the fanbase at the cost of content or substance could be a bad thing.

[Slumber]

24 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

How could it be worse that they expanded the fanbase?

Because subjectivity. Awakening and Fates brought in a crowd that was wildly different to what the franchise had been for 20 years.

Again, the IGN review of SoV where the reviewer docked points for not being able to have Saber and Celica bone each other. It brought in a crowd with completely different expectations to what 80% of the series is.

To some, this can be seen as "for the worse".

Edited October 19, 2017 by Slumber

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Because subjectivity. Awakening and Fates brought in a crowd that was wildly different to what the franchise had been for 20 years.

Again, the IGN review of SoV where the reviewer docked points for not being able to have Saber and Celica bone each other. It brought in a crowd with completely different expectations to what 80% of the series is.

Different, but not bad. Also, let's be fair, most of Awakening (can't speak for Fates) still plays like Fire Emblem. Adding one mechanic does not take away the others. If anything, Awakening feels like a natural progression of the series. I would hardly call it wildly different. It had a fresh coat of paint and an improved interface and so forth, but it's still very much Fire Emblem, and before you ask, yes, I have played older games.

[Stephen the Great]

9 minutes ago, Zasplach said:

Hypothetically speaking, not making any claims, expanding the fanbase at the cost of content or substance could be a bad thing.

For example...?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Sigismund of Luxemburg

[Zasplach]

2 minutes ago, Sigismund of Luxemburg said:

For example...?

This sounds like a rather weighted opinion, hmmm.  I don't know, I'll use a non Fire Emblem example.  You're a classical novelist who writes, deep, difficult to understand novels, something that requires deep reflection, someone like Steinbeck, or Hemingway, or any 20th century modernist, take F. Scott Fitzgerald; he wasn't particualrly popular in his lifetime, but his novels are potentially life changing and deep.  Let's say you get fed up with the deep gig to get more attention, instead of writing the Great Gatsby you write Stephen King novels or James Patterson novels, something much more popular and more appealing to large groups, but fewer layers of depth than Fitzgerald.  I would consider that a lose by appealing to more people.

[Harvey]

I personally am not into dating and sims part of FIre Emblem. I will however say that characters need more support conversations instead of the usual C to A or S.

Have conversations from now on start from E to A. This way more dialogue can be given for supports that otherwise feel very incomplete and underwhelming.

 

[TheWill]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I personally am not into dating and sims part of FIre Emblem. I will however say that characters need more support conversations instead of the usual C to A or S.

Have conversations from now on start from E to A. This way more dialogue can be given for supports that otherwise feel very incomplete and underwhelming.

I'd rather they just remove the letter convention and have it progress through a designated bar (maybe an icon like a heart) that will fill up as you develop the relationship with the character. Think social links, except not restricted to 10, so as to take as much time with a storyline or character arc for as long as necessary. 

[LucarioGamer812]

For me Awakening was originally meant to be the last game, and tried to incorporate elements from most every past game (world, mechanics, design etc), the developers actually put heart into it and that's how I view it, I also view Fates as trying to redo what Awakening did for the money instead of heart. Then Echoes went back to heart, that's just me though.

 

I actually consider Delthea the best character in echoes (gameplay wise)

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

I actually consider Delthea the best character in echoes (gameplay wise)

Not surprising considering that she's the easiest to train of all the units.

 

[familyplayer]

1 hour ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

I actually consider Delthea the best character in echoes

Good taste.

1 hour ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

(gameplay wise)

Nvm.