What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Armagon]

56 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Not surprising considering that she's the easiest to train of all the units.

Nope. And trust me, i use Delthea a lot. She starts out low-leveled and fragile. She isn't that easy to train (though in hindsight, is still one of the easier Ests to train).

[SavageVolug]

20 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Nope. And trust me, i use Delthea a lot. She starts out low-leveled and fragile. She isn't that easy to train (though in hindsight, is still one of the easier Ests to train).

I agree, I find Delthea harder to work with. Of the "Ests" that are in Echoes, I think Jesse is the easiest due to:

1) Higher movement

2) Being a mercenary he is more robust than Delthea allowing him to take more of a beating if necessary. (unless it's magic)

3) Seems to do crits a lot

4) I think he's funnier than Delthea "Turns out attacking a bandit fort all by yourself is not a good idea."-Jesse

Another reason I've never been motivated to use Delthea as I've always been like "I already have Luthier who is already a reliable mage/sage. Sure Delthea MAY turn out better eventually but that's going to take a lot of babying." However to those who DO use Delthea, more power to you, for me she comes too late to make any use out of and I find any unit who's locked at 4 movement hard to get them where I want them when I want them.

[Dark Holy Elf]

For what it's worth I think Delthea is easier to raise than most Ests because she has high damage (and not just for her level) from range. That doesn't make her easy-to-use by the standards of average units, though.

 

3 hours ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

For me Awakening was originally meant to be the last game, and tried to incorporate elements from most every past game (world, mechanics, design etc), the developers actually put heart into it and that's how I view it, I also view Fates as trying to redo what Awakening did for the money instead of heart. Then Echoes went back to heart, that's just me though.

I really hope this is just you because I couldn't disagree more. IMO Conquest shows a lot more love and attention to detail in it than most games in the series. Map design and objectives are thoughtful and varied. Enemy placement and skill loadouts were clearly carefully chosen (sometimes this is subtle, but an obvious example is how the enemies were chosen to set traps in the hallways of Chapter 25). Pair Up received a clear overhaul to keep the parts that people liked while excising the parts that made it reviled by some of the veteran fanbase. Every single unit received a personal skill designed to reflect their personality, hardly something I would think of if I were trying to mail in a sequel for money. Even the story, problematic though it is, isn't that way due to a lack of love.

The only place I'd give your argument any credit is the kid mechanic; it feels very obvious the devs didn't actually want that system in place but it got forced upon them by executive meddling, because it doesn't feel like it fits in the game at all and the narrative explanation for it is just silly. But even then, it wasn't totally mailed in; notice how they tinkered with the child stat formulas so that kids are now actually balanced, unlike in Awakening.

[Arthur97]

4 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

For what it's worth I think Delthea is easier to raise than most Ests because she has high damage (and not just for her level) from range. That doesn't make her easy-to-use by the standards of average units, though.

 

I really hope this is just you because I couldn't disagree more. IMO Conquest shows a lot more love and attention to detail in it than most games in the series. Map design and objectives are thoughtful and varied. Enemy placement and skill loadouts were clearly carefully chosen (sometimes this is subtle, but an obvious example is how the enemies were chosen to set traps in the hallways of Chapter 25). Pair Up received a clear overhaul to keep the parts that people liked while excising the parts that made it reviled by some of the veteran fanbase. Every single unit received a personal skill designed to reflect their personality, hardly something I would think of if I were trying to mail in a sequel for money. Even the story, problematic though it is, isn't that way due to a lack of love.

The only place I'd give your argument any credit is the kid mechanic; it feels very obvious the devs didn't actually want that system in place but it got forced upon them by executive meddling, because it doesn't feel like it fits in the game at all and the narrative explanation for it is just silly. But even then, it wasn't totally mailed in; notice how they tinkered with the child stat formulas so that kids are now actually balanced, unlike in Awakening.

Heart and gameplay mechanics are not necessarily the same. Something can be mechanically sound with no heart. Besides, I like how unbalanced Awakening is. Feels good to train up gods among men.

Guess I'll throw out my own unpopular opinion: I already think Echoes is not aging well despite being so young. It just seems that the more I look back on it, the less fun it was.

[Tolvir]

11 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

How could it be worse that they expanded the fanbase?

Its great that they expanded the audience, but if they brought in some of the more infamous fanbases out there, what does that do to the perception of the game? Take the recent Rick and Morty craze lately. The fanbase, due to their outright fanaticism towards this show, have taken an otherwise decent show into an infamous direction purely because of the fanbase and how they act. So it creates a perception about the show. One that often times isnt always true, but is still there.

Same with Fire Emblem. We grew our fanbase, that is a great thing for the franchise. Unfortunately it also dragged along some of the "waifu" crowds that hold a bit of a stigma to them. And because they dragged that over to FE, it kind of brings that stigma to the fanbase, and therefore the game as a whole.

Its a great thing that the game has expanded and reached more audiences. Its the one thing FE has always needed, but unfortunately it has brought a bit of a stigma along with it. But the thing is, every fanbase in the world has one. So its not that its any different than any other series.

[Greencapps]

11 hours ago, Arthur97 said:

Different, but not bad. Also, let's be fair, most of Awakening (can't speak for Fates) still plays like Fire Emblem. Adding one mechanic does not take away the others. If anything, Awakening feels like a natural progression of the series. I would hardly call it wildly different. It had a fresh coat of paint and an improved interface and so forth, but it's still very much Fire Emblem, and before you ask, yes, I have played older games.

Ok usually I'd agree with you on this point but sense it was used to excuse a reviewer docking points for not being able to have a canon pairing be ruined in a remake it just doesn't hold up. 

There are people out there that play the game predominantly for the waifu aspect, believe me I know a few. Heroes hasn't made this any better but Heroes was always intended to be pretty much just for the fan service I can't really complain. Now there are plenty of people who have come for the waifus and stayed for the game. I'm not saying all of them are bad or even that their opinions are wrong just that unfortunately investors have a lot of say in how games are made and what investors love is a game that gets good scores and appeals to as many people in order to raise sales. Usually this ends up in a game that in an attempt to make everyone happy it makes nobody happy and alienates the core audience. Ex:Halo4/5 (5 more than 4 cause at least 4 had a good narrative and set up what could have been the best story told in a Halo game.)

The fact that a reviewer docked points for not having the "waifu" mechanics of the last 2 installments could signal to investors and higher ups that those mechanics are necessary and might force IS to put them in with or without them wanting to. Which could hurt the artistic integrity of the game like it did in Fates, among other things.

I'm not elitist, hell I started with Awakening, I'm just afraid another of my favorite series will fall into the same trap that Halo and so many other formerly great AAA franchises have of late.

[Arthur97]

6 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

Ok usually I'd agree with you on this point but sense it was used to excuse a reviewer docking points for not being able to have a canon pairing be ruined in a remake it just doesn't hold up. 

There are people out there that play the game predominantly for the waifu aspect, believe me I know a few. Heroes hasn't made this any better but Heroes was always intended to be pretty much just for the fan service I can't really complain. Now there are plenty of people who have come for the waifus and stayed for the game. I'm not saying all of them are bad or even that their opinions are wrong just that unfortunately investors have a lot of say in how games are made and what investors love is a game that gets good scores and appeals to as many people in order to raise sales. Usually this ends up in a game that in an attempt to make everyone happy it makes nobody happy and alienates the core audience. Ex:Halo4/5 (5 more than 4 cause at least 4 had a good narrative and set up what could have been the best story told in a Halo game.)

The fact that a reviewer docked points for not having the "waifu" mechanics of the last 2 installments could signal to investors and higher ups that those mechanics are necessary and might force IS to put them in with or without them wanting to. Which could hurt the artistic integrity of the game like it did in Fates, among other things.

I'm not elitist, hell I started with Awakening, I'm just afraid another of my favorite series will fall into the same trap that Halo and so many other formerly great AAA franchises have of late.

Ahem, I'm just saying that the waifu aspect is not even that big of a part of the game. It may be the big draw for some, but the game is still by and large, Fire Emblem. And, let's be honest, people shipped before Awakening, Awakening just turned it into a mechanic.

[Greencapps]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Ahem, I'm just saying that the waifu aspect is not even that big of a part of the game. It may be the big draw for some, but the game is still by and large, Fire Emblem. And, let's be honest, people shipped before Awakening, Awakening just turned it into a mechanic.

You're completely disregarding my point it's not about how big of a mechanic it is, which it totally is a big mechanic considering it's how you get half the cast, but how it can negatively affect the game as a whole by taking a time out of the development to make an out of place pandering mechanic.

[Arthur97]

42 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

Its great that they expanded the audience, but if they brought in some of the more infamous fanbases out there, what does that do to the perception of the game? Take the recent Rick and Morty craze lately. The fanbase, due to their outright fanaticism towards this show, have taken an otherwise decent show into an infamous direction purely because of the fanbase and how they act. So it creates a perception about the show. One that often times isnt always true, but is still there.

Same with Fire Emblem. We grew our fanbase, that is a great thing for the franchise. Unfortunately it also dragged along some of the "waifu" crowds that hold a bit of a stigma to them. And because they dragged that over to FE, it kind of brings that stigma to the fanbase, and therefore the game as a whole.

Its a great thing that the game has expanded and reached more audiences. Its the one thing FE has always needed, but unfortunately it has brought a bit of a stigma along with it. But the thing is, every fanbase in the world has one. So its not that its any different than any other series.

Really? I find the most stigmatic part of this fanbase to be how much it's at its own throat and incredibly ungrateful.

22 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

You're completely disregarding my point it's not about how big of a mechanic it is, which it totally is a big mechanic considering it's how you get half the cast, but how it can negatively affect the game as a whole by taking a time out of the development to make an out of place pandering mechanic.

It's an extension of the support system which has been in the series for a long time (admittedly not always very well implemented like in the GBA games or Echoes). The rest of the game is still wholly Fire Emblem, you know, the part you actually play. The mechanic itself can't take much development time, and it was hardly out of place in Awakening.

[Florina's #1 Fan]

1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

Guess I'll throw out my own unpopular opinion: I already think Echoes is not aging well despite being so young. It just seems that the more I look back on it, the less fun it was.

I kind of agree with you here. I liked it, but I just have no interest to keep playing. It's my brother's copy, so when he got obsessed with it, I stopped playing at around act IV so he could play on his cartridge. Then, when he beat the game, he offered to let me finish.

But I had zero motivation to go back to it. It feels so dated, and there is not enough character interaction, in my opinion. For example, Catria only has two supports, and they're with Est and Palla, her sisters :\ Not a single support outside of her own family. And Sonya and Genny both only have one conversation, which is with each other. That really bugs me because they didn't flesh out Genny's relationship with her friends at all, but they decided to make someone so shy meet someone totally new? Not to mention that a lot of the supports aren't very good and don't change how you view the characters involved.

And then there's the poor replay value, which the lack of supports contributes to. There's lots of DLC, but nothing else once the game is over. You can grind up your units and go to Arachnea, which is cool, but to me it's the equivalent of the Rayquaza hunt in ORAS, it took very little time, wasn't very entertaining, and left you wanting to play something else. And just thinking about making a new save file in SoV makes me tired, whereas in Awakening and Fates, I ran out of save slots because I wanted to read different conversations and play on different paths and difficulties.

A lot of people say they like how similar to Gaiden SoV is, but to me, that just makes it feel old when it shouldn't feel that way. Not nearly as old as Gaiden, that isn't fair, but Awakening and Fates feel much more fresh than Echoes.

[Tolvir]

8 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Really? I find the most stigmatic part of this fanbase to be how much it's at its own throat and incredibly ungrateful.

It's an extension of the support system which has been in the series for a long time (admittedly not always very well implemented like in the GBA games or Echoes). The rest of the game is still wholly Fire Emblem, you know, the part you actually play. The mechanic itself can't take much development time, and it was hardly out of place in Awakening.

Did you even read my post? That wasnt my point one bit as to what was or was not the most stigmatic part of the fanbase. It was explaining my original statement. 

And I actually agree with you. So maybe tone it down a bit instead of ripping into those that may just agree with you.

[Arthur97]

25 minutes ago, Tolvir said:

Did you even read my post? That wasnt my point one bit as to what was or was not the most stigmatic part of the fanbase. It was explaining my original statement. 

And I actually agree with you. So maybe tone it down a bit instead of ripping into those that may just agree with you.

Never said you were guilty.

Besides, while the waifu stigma may be unpleasant, focusing on that just makes the real problem worse. If anything that is how a bigger fanbase is truly causing problems. The waifu issue is just one step to the true problem. So, you're not wrong, true, but I just don't see that as much of a problem.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Arthur97

[Greencapps]

1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

Never said you were guilty.

Besides, while the waifu stigma may be unpleasant, focusing on that just makes the real problem worse. If anything that is how a bigger fanbase is truly causing problems. The waifu issue is just one step to the true problem. So, you're not wrong, true, but I just don't see that as much of a problem.

Whooo boy

Somebody's sensitive.

Look neither of us is saying that that Awakening or Fates are bad, I personally love Awakening but am highly critical of Fates but that's not relevant and I'm just putting it out there because you seem to be highly defensive of those games and I want you to know we have common ground. 

All we're saying, or at least what I'm saying I can't speak for Tolvir, is that there can be, and because of Fates and IGN's SoV review I'd argue already have been, negative effects of the so called "Waifu Emblem" fans on the series. I never said children are always shit, hell scroll up a bit and you'll see me defending their use in Awakening and just the game in general, I'm only saying the stigma caused by Fates, and retroactively Awakening, of child units and marriage being a staple mechanic could really damage the quality and artistic integrity of future titles. When a mechanic is poorly implemented because the devs are required to do so the game can "make better numbers" it almost without fail be a detriment to the games quality because it's not part of the artists vision and is just artificially added on. 

I also never said that newer fans should fuck off and die. I am a newer fan and that train of thought is a detriment to the community as a whole. 

While it is true that this community has problems and is pretty divided in some places accusing us or anyone else of that behavior won't help in fact it will probably just make the schism bigger further exasperating the problem. Furthermore I find it quite ironic that you are calling us toxic while we're the ones calmly and clearly stating our views, trying to have civil debate. While you are immediately at our throats for even mildly disagreeing with us.

Please take a deep breath, try to calm down, and think about what our posts actually mean before attacking us.

I really don't want to fight.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Greencapps

[SoulWeaver]

12 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

Look neither of us is saying that that Awakening or Fates are bad

I never said children are always crap

I also never said that newer fans should go off and die.

He hasn't implied you've said any of these three things you mentioned, that's you implying that he was implying you said them.

15 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

While you are immediately at our throats for even mildly disagreeing with us.

Even should that be what he's doing, is calling him out on it really going to end well? I can't remember a time I've ever said this and had the other guy go "Oh, my apologies, good sir, I shall take my throat-grabbing where it will not inconvenience you." He's even pointed out that he feels our biggest stigma is how we're always at our own throats, so chances are he realizes that what he's doing may come across as that to others as well.

[Greencapps]

Great.

So somehow in trying to defuse an argument I start another. 

I really don't want to fight with you so can we just stop this here. 

It'd be really pointless to argue over an argument.

[SoulWeaver]

Just now, Greencapps said:

Great.

So somehow in trying to defuse an argument I start another. 

I really don't want to fight with you so can we just stop this here. 

It'd be really pointless to argue over an argument.

I actually don't argue as a general rule unless Counter's usability is involved, in which case put up your dukes boyo. I'm just pointing out saying someone is going at people's throats isn't the best way to end an argument for your future reference. I'm actually glad to see someone wanting to stop after less than a full page of discussion.

[Greencapps]

6 minutes ago, SoulWeaver said:

I actually don't argue as a general rule unless Counter's usability is involved, in which case put up your dukes boyo. I'm just pointing out saying someone is going at people's throats isn't the best way to end an argument for your future reference. I'm actually glad to see someone wanting to stop after less than a full page of discussion.

Cool.

And to clarify I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he'd realize what he's doing and maybe calm down a bit. Granted this is the internet and perhaps I'm being a mite bit naive in doing so but I'd rather give him the chance than just assume the worst. 

[MisfitMiju]

Guess I'll give this a go

I think Robin and the things related to him such as grima and the grimleal are some of the most interesting things in the series even with little focus it had in Awakening

I consider Marth, Eirika and Eliwood the best lords out of all the fire emblem games 

I like the avatar system and it isn't indicative of what makes a bad character that falls squarely on how they are written

I can't explain it but the biggest issue of fates is that it lacks a soul in comparison to all of the other games in the series

Shadow Dragon is a good game

Kris and Corrin are equally awful

Roy is pretty great if only the game didn't screw him over with such a late promotion

Only being able to support with 5 characters is baffling 

Sometimes it seems like the disdain for Awakening and Fates comes from outside elements rather than the games themselves which isn't fair

 

 

 

[Greencapps]

15 minutes ago, MisfitMiju said:

Guess I'll give this a go

I think Robin and the things related to him such as grima and the grimleal are some of the most interesting things in the series even with little focus it had in Awakening

I consider Marth, Eirika and Eliwood the best lords out of all the fire emblem games 

I like the avatar system and it isn't indicative of what makes a bad character that falls squarely on how they are written

I can't explain it but the biggest issue of fates is that it lacks a soul in comparison to all of the other games in the series

Shadow Dragon is a good game

Kris and Corrin are equally awful

Roy is pretty great if only the game didn't screw him over with such a late promotion

Only being able to support with 5 characters is baffling 

Sometimes it seems like the disdain for Awakening and Fates comes from outside elements rather than the games themselves which isn't fair

You.

I like you.

Also I'm curious, what's your reasoning behind your favorite lords?

[Arthur97]

55 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

Cool.

And to clarify I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he'd realize what he's doing and maybe calm down a bit. Granted this is the internet and perhaps I'm being a mite bit naive in doing so but I'd rather give him the chance than just assume the worst. 

...you thought that was me going at someone's throat? You've been on the internet too long. I was trying to make the point that waifuism is more of an inconvience than anything and not that big of a part of Awakening's gameplay. It's just the part people latch onto. Focusing on that and hating on it saying that's all it is just makes the actual problem worse.

[Greencapps]

And there we go again with ignoring what I actually said.

Ok this debate is over. You refuse to find any common ground even when I literally tell you what common ground we have.

I'm done.

[MisfitMiju]

26 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

You.

I like you.

Also I'm curious, what's your reasoning behind your favorite lords?

In the case of Eirika its her resilience in the face of adversity despite her status as a naive empathetic royal. She resolves herself to ending Grado's invasion even if it comes to bloodshed only to have tragedy strike at every opportunity. Her father dies, the queen of Jehanna is killed, Caellach crushes one of the stones,monsters are turning up everywhere, and Lyon's possession. That scene with her giving up a stone has the girl at her lowest clinging to any possibility to save someone she cares for only to have it backfire sets the stage for my favorite boss encounter in the series. She's incredibly human and her supports only make it better.

Marth is a similar case but I think its incredible that he's characterized so well within shadow dragon that makes me care about him and those directly connected to him.

Eliwood is such a charming character he's on the lower end of the political spectrum in comparison to other lords but it benefits his down to earth nature. Eliwood's strength comes from those who stand by him and serves as the rock for the elibe trio not allowing hector or lyn to waver his unyielding faith and amiable personality make him stand out to me. It helps that he's also one of the dorkiest lords in the series thus far.

Tldr: All 3 of them are empathetic and amass strength for it and even if its takem advantage or tragedy befalls they perservere and get the job done.

 

[Greencapps]

Respectable reasons but imo I think both Eliwood and Erika kinda get held back by the writing, and wonky support systems, of their games. 

I can't speak for Marth as I've yet to play Shadow Dragon but I've heard good things.

[MisfitMiju]

1 minute ago, Greencapps said:

Respectable reasons but imo I think both Eliwood and Erika kinda get held back by the writing, and wonky support systems, of their games. 

I can't speak for Marth as I've yet to play Shadow Dragon but I've heard good things.

What do you think holds eliwood and Eirika back in the writing department

[LucarioGamer812]

8 hours ago, familyplayer said:

Good taste.

Nvm.

Hey she's definitely my favorite character, most definitely gameplay and personality and to me relatibility, but there are stronger characters in echoes. Valbar, Clair, and Celica/Alm to name a few. But I still like Delthea the best out of the roster.