What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Harvey]

Unless it comes to specific classes, resistance growth is kinda redundant and should just come as 0% in favour of buffing other growths like Def and attack.

Reason being that about 80% of the cast each game gives you hardly has good growths in resistance unless if I'm mistaken. Generals are going to get screwed by magicians whether you like it or not and the same goes for Wyvern riders and melee units as well and those units are vital for your strategies to work regardless of what you think about them. 

Even if they don't grow in resistance, they are not going to get easily killed by one mage unless you go around carelessly. 

 

[Alastor15243]

10 hours ago, Slumber said:

That's not at all why they were in RD. They existed because

A) Radiant Dawn was a full 10+ hours longer than pretty much any FE, and to keep the gameplay feeling like it was progressing, characters couldn't just stop at the second tier. They could have if they shifted focus a bit, or if they chopped the game down, but that's clearly not what the developers wanted from RD. They definitely wanted a big, long, epic game.

 B) From a narrative standpoint, you would either have to reconcile that either Ike's now legendary crew of mercenaries were just as strong as a batch of ragtag orphans and nobodies from Daein fighting for independence, or that they were incapable of getting much stronger throughout the entirety of RD. Either one of these two scenarios isn't compelling.

Third tiers only ever exist in FE2/15 outside of this, and that games has a wildly different class structure that isn't really comparable to anything else in the franchise.

If you don't like third tiers, cool, but they weren't just thrown into RD for spectacle. It was a huge game, and even with the huge roster, they needed to expand the standard class system for both gameplay and narrative reasons.

Granted, the use of a three tiered class system both fixed the annoying "why did my heroes lose all of their power in between games" narrative issue and let them still grow, but I'm saying this in the context of people I've heard say they want third-tier classes to come back, and to that I say hell no. That money and development time would be way better spent expanding the class list rather than lengthening the progression of the classes we already have.

[Slumber]

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

Just out of curiosity, exactly how long is it compared to other FE games?

Because when looking at the main story side of things alone, Its only a few hours longer compared to PoR and Mystery of the Emblem(if the fire emblem list doesn't show up, you have to type Fire Emblem in the search bar for the list to show up due to website issues).

Now I haven't played RD or PoR. Its just that the hour difference isn't that significant when comparing them both.

 

I'm going only off of main game, since the vast majority of people are only going to play through the game once, and "completionist" runs for FE games are insanely hard to determine, since I can almost guarantee those are insanely hard to determine. Those 55 hour completionist times of FE7 sure aren't including getting every support, while who knows why the completionist time for Birthright is a full 20 hours higher than the Conquest and Revelation completionist times, because Birthright sure as hell doesn't magically have 20 hours more content.

And going by just main story times, RD is head and shoulders above nearly everything else. At 42 hours and 30 minutes, that's a full 5 and a half hours over FE3 which is in second place(Which I bet includes going through both book 1 and book 2, considering the respective times SD, the NM remake, and how much faster that game moves than the NES SD.), 8 hours longer than the third place SoV, and 9 and a half hours longer than its predecessor. Then it's Awakening, the only other game in the franchise that averages out to over 30 hours, at 11 and a half hours.

4 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

The problem with third tiers in FE10 is that the game's split up between multiple parties.  If it was just the Dawn Brigade through the whole game with the length left alone or something, then yeah, I'd say that third tiers are absolutely justified.  

However, that's not how it is in the actual game.  The Dawn Brigade has to deal with a lot of catching up while only getting slightly more chapters that the mercs to do it in.  I'd actually argue the three tier system is and the Mercs basically not dealing with it is part of the reason FE10's character balancing is so skewed in the Merc's favor.  It just handicaps the Dawn Brigade by forcing them through an entire extra strength tier and not giving them nearly enough time to go through a second with more than like, one unit.

For most characters Radiant Dawn is a two tiered game and the Dawn Brigade is essentially a party of trainees in comparison.  

The two solutions to this are 1. Axing third tiers and dialing back the Merc's initial strength or 2. Adding way more "tier 2" Dawn Brigade Chapters.

That's more of a problem of the DB than it is with third tiers. Since they're playing catch-up throughout all of part 3 and 4, aside from maybe 2 or 3 favored units, it feels like you're basically rushing to make them useful.

The game, as it's presented, which includes the Merc's inclusion from about the midway point of the game, basically forces a narrative/gameplay reason for third tiers, as I mentioned earlier. Either case where there isn't promotion, but there's focus on the Mercs, wouldn't be very compelling narratively or as far as actual gameplay goes. Yes, they COULD have gone with the route where the DB was the focus, there was still 3 tiers, and then Ike's group shows up as a group of super units in the last act, but that's not what they went with, and it still would have needed third tiers to go along with the fact that RD is like a 45 hour game.

Your first solution seems iffy, since the whole idea with Ike and his group is that they're super badasses. They basically shake every country they step in. Having them suddenly be super weak, or at the very least, noticeably weaker than they were in PoR, wouldn't fit the narrative of the game, and it'd be a bit of a let down to anyone who played PoR.

Your second solution doesn't make third tiers more fitting, it just makes the DB units more viable. They get the most chapters but they make up a fraction of the cast of the game, the rest of who are basically war-hardened warriors from PoR or even prior to that.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Slumber

[Magical Glace]

24 minutes ago, Slumber said:

That's more of a problem of the DB than it is with third tiers. Since they're playing catch-up throughout all of part 3 and 4, aside from maybe 2 or 3 favored units, it feels like you're basically rushing to make them useful.

The game, as it's presented, which includes the Merc's inclusion from about the midway point of the game, basically forces a narrative/gameplay reason for third tiers, as I mentioned earlier. Either case where there isn't promotion, but there's focus on the Mercs, wouldn't be very compelling narratively or as far as actual gameplay goes. Yes, they COULD have gone with the route where the DB was the focus, there was still 3 tiers, and then Ike's group shows up as a group of super units in the last act, but that's not what they went with, and it still would have needed third tiers to go along with the fact that RD is like a 45 hour game.

Your first solution seems iffy, since the whole idea with Ike and his group is that they're super badasses. They basically shake every country they step in. Having them suddenly be super weak wouldn't fit the narrative of the game, and it'd be a bit of a let down to anyone who played RD.

Your second solution doesn't make third tiers more fitting, it just makes the DB units more viable. They get the most chapters but they make up a fraction of the cast of the game.

It's more, I can count on my hands how many units start first tier (there's 10 that I can think of: Micaiah, Edward, Leonardo, Nolan, Laura, Ilyana, Aran, Meg, Jill, and Fiona), and all of them are part of the Daein group.  For the remainder of the game, second tier is effectively first tier, and the first tier is basically a trainee tier as a result.  For all individual parties, most people are only going to have time to go through two tiers.  Radiant Dawn is a long game, yes, but you don't have everybody throughout that long game.  

I personally don't mind if Ike's group loses some steam, they'd still have to be a bit stronger than the Dawn Brigade to start (the Mercs do have slightly less chapters overall, so giving them a slight power advantage to compensate is fair, but the current gap in base power is way too big relative to the amount of time each gets).  

Otherwise fair point, I guess.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[Slumber]

5 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

It's more, I can count on my hands how many units start first tier (there's 10 that I can think of: Micaiah, Edward, Leonardo, Nolan, Laura, Ilyana, Aran, Meg, Jill, and Fiona), and all of them are part of the Daein group.  For the remainder of the game, second tier is effectively first tier, and the first tier is basically a trainee tier as a result.  For all individual parties, most people are only going to have time to go through two tiers.  Radiant Dawn is a long game, yes, but you don't have everybody throughout that long game.  

I personally don't mind if Ike's group loses some steam, they'd still have to be a bit stronger than the Dawn Brigade to start (the Mercs do have slightly less chapters overall, so giving them a slight power advantage to compensate is fair, but the current gap in base power is way too big relative to the amount of time each gets).  

Even though the game is long, you don't have anyone long enough for all three tiers to matter without an extreme amount of bias for one unit in the Daein group.

Otherwise fair point, I guess.

I think the better solution wouldn't necessarily to make Ike's group weaker. I actually think it would have made more sense for them to have been stronger, but you play as them less, only showing up at truly major moments, like rescuing the Crimeans or the battle against Daein at the end of part 3. As neat as it was to hunt down Begnion senators, we probably didn't need them to get nearly as many chapters as the DB, especially since they already started as second tiers. Basically have them around just enough to whet the appetites of people who played PoR, but not enough to where they eclipse the Dawn Brigade.

This would have given the game more time to let us play as the DB, and there wouldn't be a weird feeling of Ike's Mercenaries feeling weaker than they should have been.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Slumber

[Magical Glace]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

I think the better solution wouldn't necessarily to make Ike's group weaker. I actually think it would have made more sense for them to have been stronger, but you play as them less, only showing up at truly major moments, like rescuing the Crimeans or the battle against Daein at the end of part 3. As neat as it was to hunt down Begnion senators, we probably didn't need them to get nearly as many chapters as the DB, especially since they already started as second tiers. Basically have them around just enough to whet the appetites of people who played PoR, but not enough to where they eclipse the Dawn Brigade.

This would have given the game more time to let us play as the DB.

That solution works as well, and it means less Ike for me to be forced into deploying.  So I would be perfectly okay with this.

[Jave]

6 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

I personally don't mind if Ike's group loses some steam, they'd still have to be a bit stronger than the Dawn Brigade to start (the Mercs do have slightly less chapters overall, so giving them a slight power advantage to compensate is fair, but the current gap in base power is way too big relative to the amount of time each gets). 

The GMs didn't even have to be weaker. Just relatively stronger than they were in PoR. Obviously Titania and Shinon would still be pre-promotes. Maybe promote Oscar and Gatrie since it fits. Ike would be a special case since he canonically becomes stronger in PoR, so they could have made him Tier 2 but a lower level. But characters like Rolf and Mist would have been perfectly fine as still Tier 1. Make them growth units though so that there's motivation to use them. Soren, Boyd, Rhys and Mia could go either way, I think, either as high-level Tier 1 or low-level Tier 2.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Slumber said:

And going by just main story times, RD is head and shoulders above nearly everything else. At 42 hours and 30 minutes, that's a full 5 and a half hours over FE3 which is in second place(Which I bet includes going through both book 1 and book 2, considering the respective times SD, the NM remake, and how much faster that game moves than the NES SD.), 8 hours longer than the third place SoV, and 9 and a half hours longer than its predecessor. Then it's Awakening, the only other game in the franchise that averages out to over 30 hours, at 11 and a half hours.

I compiled the number of chapters in each game (might be a little off):

Spoiler

FE1/11: 25. FE11 adds 5 Gaiden Chapters and the 4 part Prologue. For 34 Chapters.

FE2/15: Well it's difficult to say with this game and it. There are more battles, but they are generally much shorter and less strategic than normal FE fights.

FE3/12: Book 1 is 20 Chapters. Book 2 is 22 chapters, with the last one divided in 3 battles. FE12 adds an 8 part Prologue and 6 Gaiden chapters for 36 Chapters.

FE4: 12 Chapters, with a total of 2-3-4-3-3-3-3-4-3-4-4-5 (41) Castles to seize.

FE5: 25 Mandatory Chapters with 7 Gaidens and one 2 Chapter split. For a total of 32 in a given playthrough and 34 overall.

FE6: 22 Chapters in Zephiel-ending playthrough. With 6 Gaidens and the last 3 Chapters on the good ending added in, we get 31 Chapters per playthrough. The two route splits, one 5 chapters long and the other 2, means there are 38 distinct Chapters in total.

FE7: 32 mandatory Chapters on a Lyn Mode-Hector Mode playthrough (the last fight being two "battles" long). Add to this 9 Gaiden chapters for a total of 41. Eliwood's exclusive Valorous Roland is another distinct chapter, as is the Four-Fanged Offense split, so 43 distinct chapters in total.

FE8: 23 mandatory Chapters on a given playthrough (with the final one being two "battles" long). Ephraim and Eirika have 6 totally distinct chapters each, for a total 29 distinct Chapters.

FE9: 33 mandatory Chapters, with Chapter 17 divided into 4 parts. 27 has a second fight not really a separate chapter with the BK duel.

FE10: Part 1 is 12 Chapters with the 1-6 split into two parts (I'll say it's justified see it in gameplay terms as two Chapters). Part 2 is 5 Chapters. Part 3 is 15 Chapters. Part 4 is 11 Chapters counting each part of 4-Final independently. So 12 + 5 + 15 + 11 = 43 Chapters total.

F13: 28 mandatory Chapters including that Premonition. Add all 23 Paralogues for 51 Chapters. 22 buyable DLC non-grinding Xenologues.

FE14: 29 mandatory Chapters per route including the Premonition. Factoring out the first six chapters, that means 75 distinct Chapters total- albeit with plenty of map reuse.

 

TearRing Saga: 40 Chapters with one little one chapter route split for 41 distinct Chapters.

Berwick Saga: 17 mandatory Chapters. With 24 optional ones, all of which are doable on a single playthrough for a total of 41.

In terms of mandatory story, RD is unbeaten. Blazing only comes close because of the filler of Lyn Mode. Add optional content, and Fates and Awakening win. But the Paralogues of both 3DS games have the plot importance of cow manure.

[Slumber]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I compiled the number of chapters in each game (might be a little off):

  Hide contents

FE1/11: 25. FE11 adds 5 Gaiden Chapters and the 4 part Prologue. For 34 Chapters.

FE2/15: Well it's difficult to say with this game and it. There are more battles, but they are generally much shorter and less strategic than normal FE fights.

FE3/12: Book 1 is 20 Chapters. Book 2 is 22 chapters, with the last one divided in 3 battles. FE12 adds an 8 part Prologue and 6 Gaiden chapters for 36 Chapters.

FE4: 12 Chapters, with a total of 2-3-4-3-3-3-3-4-3-4-4-5 (41) Castles to seize.

FE5: 25 Mandatory Chapters with 7 Gaidens and one 2 Chapter split. For a total of 32 in a given playthrough and 34 overall.

FE6: 22 Chapters in Zephiel-ending playthrough. With 6 Gaidens and the last 3 Chapters on the good ending added in, we get 31 Chapters per playthrough. The two route splits, one 5 chapters long and the other 2, means there are 38 distinct Chapters in total.

FE7: 32 mandatory Chapters on a Lyn Mode-Hector Mode playthrough (the last fight being two "battles" long). Add to this 9 Gaiden chapters for a total of 41. Eliwood's exclusive Valorous Roland is another distinct chapter, as is the Four-Fanged Offense split, so 43 distinct chapters in total.

FE8: 23 mandatory Chapters on a given playthrough (with the final one being two "battles" long). Ephraim and Eirika have 6 totally distinct chapters each, for a total 29 distinct Chapters.

FE9: 33 mandatory Chapters, with Chapter 17 divided into 4 parts. 27 has a second fight not really a separate chapter with the BK duel.

FE10: Part 1 is 12 Chapters with the 1-6 split into two parts (I'll say it's justified see it in gameplay terms as two Chapters). Part 2 is 5 Chapters. Part 3 is 15 Chapters. Part 4 is 11 Chapters counting each part of 4-Final independently. So 12 + 5 + 15 + 11 = 43 Chapters total.

F13: 28 mandatory Chapters including that Premonition. Add all 23 Paralogues for 51 Chapters. 22 buyable DLC non-grinding Xenologues.

FE14: 29 mandatory Chapters per route including the Premonition. Factoring out the first six chapters, that means 75 distinct Chapters total- albeit with plenty of map reuse.

 

TearRing Saga: 40 Chapters with one little one chapter route split for 41 distinct Chapters.

Berwick Saga: 17 mandatory Chapters. With 24 optional ones, all of which are doable on a single playthrough for a total of 41.

In terms of mandatory story, RD is unbeaten. Blazing only comes close because of the filler of Lyn Mode. Add optional content, and Fates and Awakening win. But the Paralogues of both 3DS games have the plot importance of cow manure.

This is true, but RD has much, much bigger and longer maps than pretty much anything besides FE4. So even with Awakening's 51 maps, or Fates' 75, nothing will really go over 30 minutes like 3-F, or quite a few other maps from RD can.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Slumber

[Jave]

14 minutes ago, Slumber said:

This is true, but RD has much, much bigger and longer maps than pretty much anything besides FE4. So even with Awakening's 51 maps, or Fates' 75, nothing will really go over 30 minutes like 3-F, or quite a few other maps from RD can.

The problem with maps like 3-F is that a lot of its length feels artificial, because the majority of the time you're just watching the map play itself due to those long-ass NPC phases which is basically lots of units you have no control over killing each other just to fulfill the Death Count requirement to clear the chapter. It's also quite telling that the map itself can be finished in, what, 4 turns?

RD may be the longest game in terms of actual length, but I say Awakening and Fates Rev have it beat in terms of actual, effective gameplay. They did a much better job at trimming down the fat, not to mention you can fully skip enemy phase.

 

[NekoKnight]

9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Granted, the use of a three tiered class system both fixed the annoying "why did my heroes lose all of their power in between games" narrative issue and let them still grow, but I'm saying this in the context of people I've heard say they want third-tier classes to come back, and to that I say hell no. That money and development time would be way better spent expanding the class list rather than lengthening the progression of the classes we already have.

I agree with this. Most people asking for 3 tiers aren't thinking about the length of the game (even a long game like Radiant Dawn was effectively 2 tiers with a handful of trainees from the first act), rather they just want cool, overpowered classes. Gaiden/SoV was... interesting, having up to 5 tiers, but you blaze through those.

Personally, I don't see the need for more than 2 tiers (excluding trainees), and when you give higher tiers more weapon proficiencies, all classes start to feel too similar.

[Harvey]

Imo, why is it that the units that suck have some of the best characterizations and the ones that are reliable are boring as characters?

If you want to use those sucky units, you're pretty much forced to go to the lowest of the difficulties just to hear them out and their performance is still average at best.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Imo, why is it that the units that suck have some of the best characterizations and the ones that are reliable are boring as characters?

If you want to use those sucky units, you're pretty much forced to go to the lowest of the difficulties just to hear them out and their performance is still average at best.

That is incredibly subjective. Marcus rocks and Gwendolyn is filth, trash, human refuse, the garbage I burn in my backyard. Xander/Ryoma is king and Nyx/Mozu is a cesspool.

Gameplay balance could always be better in FE, that is true. But don't confuse personalities with this. Correlation =/ causation (if such a correlation even exists- because it is very subjective as I just pointed out).

Edited November 28, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[UNLEASH IT]

On 11/5/2017 at 11:22 AM, Harvey said:

However, Holy War is still better than Birthright due to the game having broken units only so near the endgame and that the final boss is actually a challenge.

 

You get Sigurd in Chapter 1. 

You get Ares in Chapter 7.

You get a Forseti user at the beginning of the second gen.

Shannan joins you in chapter 7.

Febail and Ced (who is ridiculously strong regardless of parentage) join you in chapter 8

What are  you talking about?

Also, how are Reptor or Julius even difficult when they can be soloed Lewyn and Julia, respectively?

 

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That is incredibly subjective. Marcus rocks and Gwendolyn is filth, trash, human refuse, the garbage I burn in my backyard. Xander/Ryoma is king and Nyx/Mozu is a cesspool.

Gameplay balance could always be better in FE, that is true. But don't confuse personalities with this. Correlation =/ causation (if such a correlation even exists- because it is very subjective as I just pointed out).

Here's a few that I like as characters namely Bartre, Lyn, Astram(His design is awesome) and Wil. They all suck on harder modes and yet they have some of the best supports ever. Its like IS wants you to use these weak units if you want to see any character development between some of the characters.

Why can't Pent's supports be anywhere as good as the former? Why is it that someone like Rutger have almost bland supports in the end?

I think that as far as difficulty goes, all units have to be usable just so players can use their favourite characters regardless and again, to do that, you have to play on the lowest difficulty.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Here's a few that I like as characters namely Bartre, Lyn, Astram(His design is awesome) and Wil. They all suck on harder modes and yet they have some of the best supports ever. Its like IS wants you to use these weak units if you want to see any character development between some of the characters.

Why can't Pent's supports be anywhere as good as the former? Why is it that someone like Rutger have almost bland supports in the end?

 

Totally subjective as I said.

CanasxPent is great support in my opinion. His Erk is a good master-student one too. The Fiora explains what she was doing in Valor. The Louise is unique in that it is entirely chapter dependent and the idea of two characters having an auto A was different. The Hawkeye is bad, but that is about it, Pent is otherwise solid, if slightly shortchanged by his auto A with Louise. But rather a handful of good 2-part conversations than terrible 3-part ones.

As for Bartre- which are you talking about? FE7's? I'm going to punch a rock if you think those are good. Bartre is brainless wild warrior who wears out his welcome quickly in FE7. Dorcas, though more mild, I like because he is grounded in being a family man and is reasonable (his Vaida though is awful).

Wil's Raven and Wallace supports are bad. The rest are good, but those two are lacking, much like Pent's Hawkeye.

 

As for Astram- blame IS for just not balancing the casts of SD and NM for their ridiculous higher difficulties- or balancing them at all even on the lower ones. Plus even the best of characters generally lack personality in Archanea.

 

And sometimes, this is the naive optimist in me, you can weasel one or two weak favorites into a harder difficulty team. I recently watched an entire LP where someone make Fiona an MVP on RD Maniac, and they played anything but slow.

[Solvaij]

Let's see....

-Binding Blade is the best game in the GBA series

-VA in Shadows of Valentia was a mistake

-Tellius series is overrated (still love it though)

-Shadow Dragon was a great game

-Kris was a good addition to New Mystery (but needed a little refining)

-Gaiden (the original) has the best soundtrack in the series

-Revelation's maps are fun to play

 

I know the Shadow Dragon thing has been on here a lot. Maybe it's not as unpopular as we think??

[TadpoleSuperHero]

I just have a few

• Permadeath is an interesting idea, but utterly wasted as both a gameplay mechanic and a storytelling opportunity. I'm not sure why they included the mechanic in the first place or what their ideas for it were, but its potential has never come close to being realized. On a gameplay level, it's pointless because 1) you can just reset if a character dies and try again, and 2) you are almost always given "replacement" characters aplenty in each class, so if you liked one unit, you'll probably get several others relatively comparable to them. And if you get a truly unique unit, there's still point 1. For storytelling, it's wasted because any character that they want to keep alive from a story perspective DOESN'T DIE. And characters who do die get little to no story relevance, and characters just move on without caring that they died. Death is utterly meaningless in Fire Emblem, and I'm glad that recent games don't lean on it and offer options (even if they aren't my favorite games in the series - those are 7 and 9)
• Lyn's story is delightful. The fact that you only have to play through the Tutorial version of it once, and that you can skip all the cut scenes if you want, means complaining about it as a tutorial is silly. Play it on Hard mode and you can play it however you like. The story is wonderful, and Lyn's journey to reunite with the only family she has left in the world always tugs at my heart strings. (also, it's fun to not promote Wallace in Lyn's story, and then recruit him later on and realize his true potential)

On 6/25/2017 at 7:38 PM, Armagon said:

-Actually, most Est-types are viable units and can be some of the best units in the game.

Completely agree! Nino has always been one of my favorite characters in 7, and every time I use her, she turns out better than my other Sages and wrecks everything in sight. She's a beast! And I just love the challenge of "here's this underleveled character at a difficult part of the story, good luck"

On 6/25/2017 at 8:04 PM, KadenTheKitsune said:

• I can't stand Azama. For some reason, I just don't like him. I feel like he's a bland character, especially since he got stuck in Birthright, and he takes so much work to actually make him a decent unit. He's annoying, rude, and disrespectful to everyone.

I agree! I think his character is both boring and grating, and he adds nothing to the game, either in Birthright or Revelation. I never use him.

On 6/25/2017 at 8:22 PM, Glennstavos said:

-Lyn popularity is owed to "first girl" syndrome as we in the west played FE7 as our entry into the series. Her popularity is no more warranted than Lucina's.

Gotta disagree. She has a lot to her story. Her journey to meet her grandfather for the first time, to find out that she still has a family after thinking she was all alone when her parents were murdered, is wonderfully heartwarming stuff. And her addition to the trio along with Eliwood and Hector helps balance out the three lords, add some character to the mix, and give a great set of personalities to bounce off of each other and grow together on a joint quest. She's something special, and I know plenty who love her as a character, not because she was the "first girl."

[Arthur97]

17 minutes ago, TadpoleSuperHero said:

Lyn's story is delightful. The fact that you only have to play through the Tutorial version of it once, and that you can skip all the cut scenes if you want, means complaining about it as a tutorial is silly. Play it on Hard mode and you can play it however you like. The story is wonderful, and Lyn's journey to reunite with the only family she has left in the world always tugs at my heart strings. (also, it's fun to not promote Wallace in Lyn's story, and then recruit him later on and realize his true potential)

Gotta disagree. She has a lot to her story. Her journey to meet her grandfather for the first time, to find out that she still has a family after thinking she was all alone when her parents were murdered, is wonderfully heartwarming stuff. And her addition to the trio along with Eliwood and Hector helps balance out the three lords, add some character to the mix, and give a great set of personalities to bounce off of each other and grow together on a joint quest. She's something special, and I know plenty who love her as a character, not because she was the "first girl."

Having tried to replay 7 somewhat recently, I have to disagree with the tutorial thing. It's a slog, and it has no real relevance to the actual plot of the game. And, yes, she journeys to reunite with her family...who she will abandon after the end of the game to go back and live in the plains in some endings.

As far as the Blazing trio goes, Lyn doesn't really do that much. She seems more or less content to let Eliwood and/or Hector to call the shots and would rather talk to the tactician (probably one of the biggest reasons she's so popular). I find her (at least in her more recent appearances) as way too cocky and arrogant. It's really rather off putting (to me at least, I guess a lot of people like arrogance). Especially when she isn't even that great of a unit to back it up. And let's not forget that she seems to walk around with a massive chip on her shoulder. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Arthur97

[Shrimpica]

• FE6 Early game hit rates make the game unplayable for me. That, coupled with the general unpolishness of the game, makes FE6 downright the worst FE for me. In general, i am not fan of GBAFE, and consider it FE at it's weakest. Maybe it's because i played GBA after i played 3DsFE, Jugdral and Tellius, but i found GBAFE too lacking in features (it's a straight downgrade from Jugdral. Where are Skills damn it), and have a lot of stuff i hate (The Con system, the X Chapters, etc..) that i just can't like em much. The only exception being FE8.
• I like Attack and Guard Stance (Fates Style) and would like IS to continue playing with em.
• FE7 started the whole Avatar worshipping thing, not FE12-14.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Shrimperor

[Reality]

A Genealogy remake would undersell- it would have at best have the numbers of (Shadows of Valentia) which ARE enough to make developing it worthwhile and the developers happy- but it will not really live up to "Major IP" potential.

The  reason is partly console userbase numbers compared to the 3DS, but also that any  way you look at it- it is meant for a nihce audience, and not a  general audience, as the recent Fire Emblems were. 

[Slumber]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

The  reason is partly console userbase numbers compared to the 3DS

This is only partly true. 

The idea that more console units=more sales isn't always true. There is a "peak" that systems reach, and it's more so true with handhelds. Basically, as soon as new hardware is on the horizon, software sales take a big hit.

With Echoes' case, it released in the 3DS' SIXTH year on the market, which is exceptionally late in a handheld's life. For comparison, New Mystery released in the sixth year of the DS' life, and Nintendo didn't even bother localizing it because it was so late in the DS' lifespan that they didn't think there'd be foreign interest. 

For a more extreme comparison, Thracia 776 came out in 1999, when statistically the Super Famicom had more units out there than ever before. It is far and away the lowest selling game in the franchise. 

To top this off, Echoes released just one month AFTER the Switch. The move from the 3DS was already happening. I don't think Nintendo was expecting anything besides Pokemon to sell well this year. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Slumber

[Slumber]

Whoops. Weird time-out stuff.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Slumber

[Starkos]

Gordin is a better archer than Jeorge. He has heart, spirit, and is a true Altean.

Roger is the best knight in the series. I mean, come on, he believes in LOVE!

The name "Chrom" is kinda silly.

 

[Shrimpica]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

A Genealogy remake would undersell- it would have at best have the numbers of (Shadows of Valentia) which ARE enough to make developing it worthwhile and the developers happy- but it will not really live up to "Major IP" potential.

The  reason is partly console userbase numbers compared to the 3DS, but also that any  way you look at it- it is meant for a nihce audience, and not a  general audience, as the recent Fire Emblems were. 

 

14 minutes ago, Slumber said:

This is only partly true. 

The idea that more console units=more sales isn't always true. There is a "peak" that systems reach, and it's more so true with handhelds. Basically, as soon as new hardware is on the horizon, software sales take a big hit.

With Echoes' case, it released in the 3DS' SIXTH year on the market, which is exceptionally late in a handheld's life. For comparison, New Mystery released in the sixth year of the DS' life, and Nintendo didn't even bother localizing it because it was so late in the DS' lifespan that they didn't think there'd be foreign interest. 

For a more extreme comparison, Thracia 776 came out in 1999, when statistically the Super Famicom had more units out there than ever before. It is far and away the lowest selling game in the franchise. 

To top this off, Echoes released just one month AFTER the Switch. The move from the 3DS was already happening. I don't think Nintendo was expecting anything besides Pokemon to sell well this year. 

to add to what Slumber said, Marketing is pretty important. If marketed right, especially with the stuff already in newer games and new people like, and the fanbase hypes it up, it cam be a pretty major hit. Heroes can also be used to market the game, since FE4 Characters seem to be pretty popular there, and do get people to play the games (i mean, one of the reasons why i played FE4 was because Julia was my MVP in heroes). That, and fix the very bad gameplay FE4 has, and you have a winning formula.