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What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?


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1 hour ago, Glaceon Mage said:

He's actually making valid points and not trolling, as far as I can tell.  

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Still doesn't change the fact that he bashes at it time and time again. Why are you defending him?

1 hour ago, Glaceon Mage said:

The difference is these people on reddit are not exaggerating, and are presenting their opinions in a calm, reasonable manner, though there are some exceptions I would dispute if I was able.  

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

I pretty much have said what they have said and I don't know where you're getting that exaggeration idea from. Swordlocked in a game with notorious lance users, low move on low maps, late promotion and few uses of the SoS is pretty much the same thing I said. What are you getting at?

 

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1 minute ago, Harvey said:

Still doesn't change the fact that he bashes at it time and time again. Why are you defending him?

Why are you asking why I'm defending him?  I literally just said I don't think he's trolling, and that I think his points are valid.

2 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I pretty much have said what they have said and I don't know where you're getting that exaggeration idea from. Swordlocked in a game with notorious lance users, low move on low maps, late promotion and few uses of the SoS is pretty much the same thing I said. What are you getting at?

The arguments against your posts have never been "Roy is good."  They've always been "You're overstating how bad he is as a unit."  

There aren't many lances in the Western Isles (the part of the game where Roy's at his second best, after the lategame where the Binding Blade breaks everything), and the early lances are often cavs which take bonus damage from the Rapier.

His move is literally identical to every other infantry in the game.  

The 20 uses of the Binding Blade really doesn't hold it back all that much, in part because it comes so late.  Unless you're trying to throw Roy at literally everything, chances are it won't break.  Use the Hammerne if it bothers you that much.

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36 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Why are you asking why I'm defending him?  I literally just said I don't think he's trolling, and that I think his points are valid.

The arguments against your posts have never been "Roy is good."  They've always been "You're overstating how bad he is as a unit."  

There aren't many lances in the Western Isles (the part of the game where Roy's at his second best, after the lategame where the Binding Blade breaks everything), and the early lances are often cavs which take bonus damage from the Rapier.

His move is literally identical to every other infantry in the game.  

The 20 uses of the Binding Blade really doesn't hold it back all that much, in part because it comes so late.  Unless you're trying to throw Roy at literally everything, chances are it won't break.  Use the Hammerne if it bothers you that much.

And that pretty much is the same thing that a lot of the ones in reddit have stated and have said the opposite already and you just saw those comments and claiming I'm exaggerating and not them when I just said their exact thoughts about Roy. What's your point?

36 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Why are you asking why I'm defending him?  I literally just said I don't think he's trolling, and that I think his points are valid.

46 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Saying that FE4 has shit gameplay is pretty much a troll. Atleast @Reality didn't downright say that its gameplay is complete and utter shit as he just said that it had problems.

 

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4 minutes ago, Harvey said:

And that pretty much is the same thing that a lot of the ones in reddit have stated already. What's your point?

What do you mean, what's my point?  I've stated it multiple times already, that "you've exaggerated, here are reasons why."  Like, I don't know how else to put it, I think I explained myself as concisely as I can.  If you still don't understand why people dispute your statements all the time, I really dunno what to tell you. 

5 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Saying that FE4 has shit gameplay is pretty much a troll. Atleast @Reality didn't downright say that its gameplay is complete and utter shit as he just said that it had problems.

...That's not trolling, that's expressing an opinion and backing it up.  

People are free to try and dispute it, but just saying "he doesn't like what I like, he must be trolling" is a lazy argument.

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21 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Saying that FE4 has shit gameplay is pretty much a troll. Atleast @Reality didn't downright say that its gameplay is complete and utter shit as he just said that it had problems

That's not trolling, that's called stating an opinion, and pretty much popular/valid one, too.

You like FE4 gameplay, sure, this is your opinion, and it's why this thread exists (infact, you are like, the 2nd person i see who does that, the other being a user on reddit on a ''what do you want to change upon FE4 remake''-Thread), but don't go call everyone a troll who doesn't like it.

Edited by Shrimperor
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3 hours ago, Harvey said:

He is broken if you give him the effort and time.

That what makes him not broken to begin with.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Just how many broken units are there in FE4 besides Sigurd, Ced, Ares, Shannan, Ayra and her kids?

All Holy Blood users are broken. Just slap on a Holy Weapon onto them and you win.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Again, its about move and seeing how big the maps are here, you can't have too many things happening in maps like that

You totally can, it's just that Kaga didn't think it all the way through.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

FE4 is suppose to reflect facing an actual real battle where soldiers move from far distances for combat.

I'm no medieval expert, but i'm pretty sure real battles had far more action going on in them, even when large distances where involved.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Again, unless for doing bragging rights, why not do it?

Wait, hold up, i smell hypocrisy here. You're saying "why not use the Rajinto even though it's broken", yet you also said

On 12/17/2017 at 2:20 AM, Harvey said:

If you think that the holy blood units are overpowered, then don't bother using them since its an option to use them

So yeah, why not use the Holy Blood units even though they're broken?

You also said

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

You still have the option to do one though so its not like you should avoid it just to make the game harder.

Yeah, it's not like you should avoid the Holy Blood units just to make the game harder, right Harvey?

You can't tell me to avoid the Holy Blood units if i find them broken only to turn around and say that i should use Rajinto and Killer Bows because they are broken.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

So you're fine with OP trolling about FE4 all night then?

I'm not even trolling at all. 

If anything, most of your FE6 criticisms are trolling, due to how exaggerated they are.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

So Roy's late promotion, Weapon balance and unit growth balance aren't valid points?

No, they are. But as Glaceon Mage stated, you always exaggerate them to the point where people have to come in and correct you. And when they do, you dismiss them and call out "favoritism".

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

But he does suffer from a lot of things regardless of what you think about them.

Again, Roy isn't an amazing unit. But then you come in and straight-up tried to argue that Sophia was somehow a better unit.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

A lot of my complaints are kinda the same of what reddit thinks here.

Difference between Reddit and you is that Reddit didn't exaggerate their criticisms. Do i disagree with some? Sure. But most of theirs is reasonable.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Only games that don't are from 1-8. I think its from 10 onwards that brings in reclassing.

Reclassing wasn't a thing until FE until the DS remakes, not counting the Villager Loop in FE2.

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On 12/17/2017 at 1:21 PM, Shrimperor said:

If FE4 is the best IS can do, then i don't want any story from them, since FE4 turns medicore once gen 2 hits.

  Reveal hidden contents

Just generic FE plot once Seliph comes to Screen and the story gets ruined by Alphanankos LoLoptyr.

Tellius > FE4 by a mile, and is the only FE Story i can consider good.

 

 

But going by this logic, the plot of RD becomes mediocre in part four but I'd still say overall it is a very compelling story. 

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14 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

But going by this logic, the plot of RD becomes mediocre in part four but I'd still say overall it is a very compelling story. 

It's the gameplay that goes to shit in RD Part 4 (those 5 maps before the Izuka map are ugh, FE at it's worst, thankfully Endgame maps make everything good again). The Story i still i find to be good then, especially since it's the only FE where the Fire Emblem is really well integrated into the Story, and

 

So are Ashura and Yune. They are much much better integrated into the Story then Alphanankos was in FE4, not to mention the whole Chaos vs. Order thing, unlike ''IMMA EVIL''-Loptyr

Edited by Shrimperor
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I've got another unpopular opinion, which I may have already stated before but I'm too lazy to check:

- I despise reclassing. Yes, units can become better through it, but I prefer units to say in their original class because...well, because I feel like they fit their roles well enough (story wise and whatnot). Picking a class Villager style is needed and cool though, and Heart Seals are okay too.

 

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1 hour ago, Flee Fleet! said:

I've got another unpopular opinion, which I may have already stated before but I'm too lazy to check:

- I despise reclassing. Yes, units can become better through it, but I prefer units to say in their original class because...well, because I feel like they fit their roles well enough (story wise and whatnot). Picking a class Villager style is needed and cool though, and Heart Seals are okay too.

 

Glad I'm not the only one. It isn't THAT unpopular of an opinion as far as I know. Kinda hope we get less reclassing. It makes the game more about min-maxing than I personally like.

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1 hour ago, Flee Fleet! said:

I've got another unpopular opinion, which I may have already stated before but I'm too lazy to check:

- I despise reclassing. Yes, units can become better through it, but I prefer units to say in their original class because...well, because I feel like they fit their roles well enough (story wise and whatnot). Picking a class Villager style is needed and cool though, and Heart Seals are okay too.

 

I concur.

I always feel like good strategy games flourish when you're limited in resources. Reclassing removes one HUGE limit on your resources and encourages more meta-gaming. I'm fine with a little meta-gaming, but usually nothing so deep that it completely changes a unit's identity. I understand that FE is ALSO an RPG, where that kind of meta-gaming is more prominent, but I tend to enjoy FE more when it's on the strategy side, and not so much the RPG(Unless it's a case like SoV, where they go so far into RPG territory that it CAN be enjoyed as almost a raw JRPG).

The closest FE ever got to having a semi-decent handle on it, IMO, was in the Archanea remakes, where you had a hard limit on what classes you could reclass, and class-specific skills didn't rule a class' viability. And even then I didn't really "like" it, since again, a unit's class, stats and growths almost have as much of an impact on the character as their actual dialogue.

Edited by Slumber
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6 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I concur.

I always feel like good strategy games flourish when you're limited in resources. Reclassing removes one HUGE limit on your resources and encourages more meta-gaming. I'm fine with a little meta-gaming, but usually nothing so deep that it completely changes a unit's identity. I understand that FE is ALSO an RPG, where that kind of meta-gaming is more prominent, but I tend to enjoy FE more when it's on the strategy side, and not so much the RPG(Unless it's a case like SoV, where they go so far into RPG territory that it CAN be enjoyed as almost a raw JRPG).

The closest FE ever got to having a semi-decent handle on it, IMO, was in the Archanea remakes, where you had a hard limit on what classes you could reclass, and class-specific skills didn't rule a class' viability. And even then I didn't really "like" it, since again, a unit's class, stats and growths almost have as much of an impact on the character as their actual dialogue.

Archanea's reclassing was much worse than Awakening and Fates' though. Every unit had immediate access to about 5-6 classes and could do so without requiring a seal. 

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2 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Archanea's reclassing was much worse than Awakening and Fates' though. Every unit had immediate access to about 5-6 classes and could do so without requiring a seal. 

Yes, but you couldn't have an army of the most OP class in the game with the same set of OP skills with a little bit of planning.

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Just now, Slumber said:

Yes, but you couldn't have an army of the most OP class in the game with the same set of OP skills with a little bit of planning.

A little bit of planning? It takes quite a while (and many seals) to achieve this so-called set of OP skills through reclassing. That's especially true in Awakening, where Second seals put you back into the first tier unless you're above level 10 promoted. Personally, I'd argue that reclassing Sedgar in SD is functionally more OP than anything from Awakening, if only because of the non-existent cost required to do so.

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1 minute ago, UNLEASH IT said:

A little bit of planning? It takes quite a while (and many seals) to achieve this so-called set of OP skills through reclassing. That's especially true in Awakening, where Second seals put you back into the first tier unless you're above level 10 promoted. Personally, I'd argue that reclassing Sedgar in SD is functionally more OP than anything from Awakening, if only because of the non-existent cost required to do so.

I don't think his argument, maybe I'm wrong, is that SD's re-classing is less broken, I think he's arguing that it is considerably more of a limiting resource than it is in Awakening or Fates where you could re-class everyone through the best classes to get the best skills, at least SD is limiting the number of dracoknights you can have at one time so you aren't draco rushing the whole game.

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19 minutes ago, Zasplach said:

I don't think his argument, maybe I'm wrong, is that SD's re-classing is less broken, I think he's arguing that it is considerably more of a limiting resource than it is in Awakening or Fates where you could re-class everyone through the best classes to get the best skills, at least SD is limiting the number of dracoknights you can have at one time so you aren't draco rushing the whole game.

More or less this.

Yes, there's investment to get a small army of Sorcerers with Armsthrift+Forged Nosferatu/Aversa's Night in Awakening, but the game does nothing to stop this sort of thing, and the investment isn't that much. Obviously somebody doing an LTC or optimal playthrough isn't going to try those things, but to everyone else, I don't think the investment is crazy, especially when you don't need to go anywhere to get easy, high EXP fights in Awakening.

Obviously Fates did a lot to nerf the OP things from Awakening, but it did a hard swing to how much it let you mess around with units' classes. I won't even bring up going to other peoples' MyCastles, which is a whole can of worms in itself with hacked skills and the like. While Seals are more limited than in Awakening, they're not so hard to get that you can't mess with a unit to the point where it's unrecognizable.

Edited by Slumber
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1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

Honestly, i wouldn't want an Army of Dracoknights, all it takes is one Map filled with Bow users and it will be rip.

Just reclass back into Pala for that one map and you're golden =)

DS reclassing is really powerful with basically no investment at all (€: well, it becomes even more powerful with a finished H1 run in FE12) and I love it because it's an additional way to fiddle with your party composition, especially after promotion. Need some additional stats or the higher bowrank? Switch your Horseman to Sniper for the map. Palla needs to use the Lady Sword? Pala instead of DK it is. Not to mention more silly options like Warrior!Yubello or D.Mage!Axe Guy (can't remember who that was in FE11) that I find really fun to mess with.

I can see the argument for limited resources that @Slumber brought up, but honestly, I like it even more if a strategy game gives me a bunch of ways to optimize things or (even better) multiple ways to tackle a problem. The one thing I don't like about DS reclassing is that I find myself using a swarm of flyers almost all of the time, so basically I feel like I'm just going with the sledgehammer option.

Edited by ping
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8 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

What do you mean, what's my point?  I've stated it multiple times already, that "you've exaggerated, here are reasons why."  Like, I don't know how else to put it, I think I explained myself as concisely as I can.  If you still don't understand why people dispute your statements all the time, I really dunno what to tell you. 

 

7 hours ago, Armagon said:

Difference between Reddit and you is that Reddit didn't exaggerate their criticisms. Do i disagree with some? Sure. But most of theirs is reasonable.

Ok so Roy being sword locked with a game with Lance users, late promotion, 5 move in a game with long maps are exaggeration? Even though that is the exact SAME thing Reddit just said?

 

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3 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Ok so Roy being sword locked with a game with Lance users, late promotion, 5 move in a game with long maps are exaggeration? Even though that is the exact SAME thing Reddit just said?

When you put it that simply, no, it's not.  When you say things like "Roy is worthless and cannot be used at all" because of these things, which you often do, that's exaggerating.

Key difference is in how you tend to present/frame what you say.

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4 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Ok so Roy being sword locked with a game with Lance users, late promotion, 5 move in a game with long maps are exaggeration? Even though that is the exact SAME thing Reddit just said?

There's a difference between "Roy is held back by this, this, and that" and "these things make Roy completely unusable and he's the worst unit in the game because of it". You fall into the latter.

 

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Xander is my least favorite Fates sibling, rather than the usual Camilla or Takumi like most people would say. And the fact he eats up more screentime than the other Nohr siblings during story events being a blind dadworshipper gives me Suzaku from Code Geass vibes of cringe.

Don't really care for Soren much, and would rather yaoi-ship Ike with Ranulf.

Tethys is not statistically the worst dancer, that goes to Lalum, and Tethys is a far more interesting and likeable than her and Azura.

Honestly like Benny more than Effie as a character, and can be salvaged as a unit.

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2 hours ago, Doodlebug Four said:

Tethys is not statistically the worst dancer, that goes to Lalum[...].

Who cares about stats on a dancer, though?

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