Fate/Grand Order General

[MacLovin]

6 hours ago, QKumber said:

I`ll be fielding my Lilly at lvl 80 and Okita soon to be 90! so at least you will have mine to pick from man xD

Someone on my friends list has a lvl 100 grailed Okita with max fous and a k-scope. thanks tho

1 hour ago, Talandar said:

You can also look out for a Mysterious Heroine X. She gets the same benefit as Lily and doesn't suck as much as her.
I heard you should prepare a Lancer for a node that has Tesla in it.

  Hide contents

Still got slapped in the face by Solomon though.

 

MHX should still be useful

 

ugh i wish this was a 1/2 off ap for the exp dailies.

[eclipse]

With Saber Wars coming up. . .have some numbers!

. . .welp, I'm screwed.  If I were to level up every last Saber, Lily would come out on top.  Alright people on my friends list, I'm relying on you!

[secondworld]

I've got a level 80 Lily and level 98 max HP and attack Artoria at the ready for this event. I'm on the fence on if I want to use quartz for MHX.

I guess I'll do at least one roll for event CEs, so I'll see what I get.

Edited December 31, 2017 by SecondWorld

[MrSmokestack]

I max ascended my Saber Lily just now too.

I really, really want to roll for Nero now that I’ve been playing Fate/EXTELLA, but with my luck 490 sq won’t be anywhere near enough.

[Shiki]

Man, some players are really spoiled breats. Here I see so many people not understanding the gacha system while the FGO reddit is upset about the change of schedule on the NA side. My french fries are delicious with the mountains of salt.

For FGO context:
People feel betrayed about the paid gacha being on Thanksgiving instead of New Year and that there is a lack of 'present's from the NA ver. for Christmas and New Year (Jap. got Part 2 and another paid gacha).
... just what are people expecting? Another paid gacha? More freebies? I mean we're already getting animation updates (though that's the simple matter of updating the client to the respective version) and imo the guaranteed was better here because you get a higher chance of Okita and 2 of the Caster trinity.
Not to mention DW distributes the presents at New Year itself (01.01~) so people could be more patient.

11 hours ago, eclipse said:

. . .welp, I'm screwed.  If I were to level up every last Saber, Lily would come out on top.  Alright people on my friends list, I'm relying on you!

Well, I'm trying my best to get Saber Alter to 80, so look forward to that (though @MrSmokestack the madman started grailing his Alter).

12 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I really, really want to roll for Nero now that I’ve been playing Fate/EXTELLA, but with my luck 490 sq won’t be anywhere near enough.

You have my blessings if it somehow transfers some of my Saber luck to you.
... though you are effectively betraying JAlter with that, no? Not that I blame you.

EDIT:
You have at least 5 tickets btw.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Talandar

[MrSmokestack]

55 minutes ago, Talandar said:

... just what are people expecting? Another paid gacha? More freebies? and imo the guaranteed was better here because you get a higher chance of Okita and 2 of the Caster trinity.

Yeah I wasn’t expecting another quartz gacha since we got one during Thanksgiving. I lucked out and got Tamamo from that one who was the one I wanted most; I would’ve been peeved if I got one of the 5* that came after GUDAGUDA like Mordred or something.

I think most NA people are just ignorant of how gacha games work. It’s not a great system but I’ll be damned if it’s not good at raking in $$$. Thankfully some of them are balanced enough that you’re not forced to roll for new units constantly, like FGO and FEH.

Quote

(though @MrSmokestack the madman started grailing his Alter).

You rolled NP2 Saber Alter. I am understandably not happy about that.

I will not be beat.

Quote

You have my blessings if it somehow transfers some of my Saber luck to you.
... though you are effectively betraying JAlter with that, no? Not that I blame you.

Nero is such a precious little thing I want to protect it watch it grow and tell my friends and neighbors about it.

R O M A

I’m lowkey dropping some dough on this banner just for insurance though.

Edited December 31, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Sire]

I got around to leveling up and ascending Artoria. Provided I can get enough EXP Cards, she should be level 90 (my first 90!) before the Saber Wars Event.

In other news, I started using my Grails. I tossed two to Santa Alter (so 90 is the cap) since I find her to be pretty amazing at her role for farming and handling difficult content. I still want to eventually grail Georgios to 100, but getting ascension materials for him is a massive pain...

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

So remember when i got heracles instead of Lalter?

 

 

I HAVE BOTH NOW

@MrSmokestack fgo have officialy become horse emblem

Edited January 1, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[N30]

HOLY SHIT PART 2 IS FUCKING WACK YO

(DONT READ THE FUCKING SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ SALOMON, THE PART 2 PROLOGUE, AND A BIT OF SHIMOSA)

Spoiler

Holy shit dude. So, let's focus on Belts 4 and 6.
Belt's 4 translated title is "Lostbelt 4: The Darkened Final God, Creation Destruction Cycle - ◼◼ ◼◼◼◼◼◼ (?? 11900)"

Me and other people think this is the Land of Iron - that is to say the world of Notes. The post apocalyptic mana drained world that perhaps can serve as a sort of "ending point" for the worlds of EXTRA and Miyu's world in Prisma Ilya. This is mainly due to the year not specificing BC or AD.

and Belt 6? "Lostbelt 6: Time of a Star being born, ◼◼Round Table Region ◼◼◼◼◼◼ ◼ ◼◼ (AD 0500)"
>Round Table Region
Yep boys, we're going into Camelot - and considering the existence of the Shimosa Sub-Parallel World, and the male Arthur's growing prominence in the advertising, I think we're going into the Camelot of Fate/Prototype - The Male King Arthur's version of Camelot. Complete with the potential appearance of a Female!Merlin.

Also, wondering why that Lost Belt 6 has a rank of EX? Well... I think the Male!Merlin has the answer to that. From Garden of Avalon (credits to /u/Cefai on the subreddit for bringing this up),

That's why....yes. Should someone ever think of filling this planet with ether once again, they would set up their workshop on this island without a doubt. This is the last scar of the age of gods, and it could act as a pivot for flipping over the world.

What is the island you may ask? Britain itself as /u/Cefai puts it:

Rhon aside, Britain itself is important. Sasuga Nasu and foreshadowing.

 

[QKumber]

9 hours ago, Talandar said:

People feel betrayed about the paid gacha being on Thanksgiving instead of New Year and that there is a lack of 'present's from the NA ver. for Christmas and New Year (Jap. got Part 2 and another paid gacha).

I think ppl complaining about this specifically just wanted to try and get jack or mordred from guarantee gacha. Those have their fans too out there.

 

But ppl being impatient is normal...and wanting freebies is always something common =p

[Emeraldfox]

If y'all are worried for Saber Wars I have Nero at 80.

[Shiki]

16 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Thankfully some of them are balanced enough that you’re not forced to roll for new units constantly, like FGO and FEH.

To be fair FEH kinda forces you in a way since almost every unit needs some kind of SI to be acceptably good. For example Nino is obviously the best example of having a low-rarity unit being Top-Tier but without SI she is ... meh. Unlike FGO you don't even have the option to get low-rarity stuff without spending currency.

16 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

You rolled NP2 Saber Alter. I am understandably not happy about that.

I will not be beat.

Hey, in FEH I'm suffering. My luck has balanced out somewhat.

Considering the Saber Wars banner has both Alter and Nero on rate-up you should wind-up with either of them eventually.
... Probably your last chance on NP2+ for a long time.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Talandar

[MrSmokestack]

4 minutes ago, Talandar said:

To be fair FEH kinda forces you in a way since almost every unit needs some kind of SI to be acceptably good. For example Nino is obviously the best example of having a low-rarity unit being Top-Tier but without SI she is ... meh. Unlike FGO you don't even have the option to get low-rarity stuff without spending currency.

If you want to do well in arena, then yes. FEH is more grindy than F/GO by a huge margin. Lots of SI either needs 20k feathers to promote or lots of orbs and luck to roll 5* exclusive units in the gacha for each unit that needs the skill.

Compared to F/GO where I play ~5 minutes doing ember quests I’m sitting on FEH on a particularly busy day for almost an hour collective doing quests and tempest runs.

If you want to just clear all PvE content and optional modes like Tempest Trials, you need a lot less. Tons of great units have been given out for free and even better ones can be rolled for at 3* or 4* like Nino. I’m one of those weird people that thinks Nino is the best unit in the game overall but that’s neither here nor there.

There are tons of F2P clears for Chain Challenges and Hero Battles on the Internet which says a lot for how little you really need to do well. That said I’m starting to prefer F/GO more and more.

4 minutes ago, Talandar said:

Hey, in FEH I'm suffering. My luck has balanced out somewhat.

Thankfully there isn’t really anything else in FEH I want anymore aside from merges. Now I can make Nino +7 and Olivia +10. I wanted Nowi merges from the tempest banner but I burned 80 orbs for a Frederick. Guess I’ll stick to rolling New Years so I can get spooked by Azura while rolling for Ninos and Barsts.

4 minutes ago, Talandar said:

Considering the Saber Wars banner has both Alter and Nero on rate-up you should wind-up with either of them eventually.
... Probably your last chance on NP2+ for a long time.

My 500sq is ready

[Shiki]

For your torture leisure:

Spoiler

Changes from previous list:

Mashu A -> S
She gets her Taunt skill and unlike JP she reaches Lvl. 60 much sooner. That means she isn't horrendously underleveled for harder content making her much more appealing with her 0 cost and ability to tank.

Arash A -> B
While his AoE is very powerful it's still an AoE and not something I would recommend for the harder content. I think S and A Tier should be reserved for that while B Tier can contain all the decent farm Servants like him and Kiyo.

Hassan A -> B
In the end Hassan doesn't do much aside from producing stars. His damage output is really lackluster and the gap between him and Kojiro doesn't seem as big as I thought. They are both very capable batteries, the difference is that Hassan's normal attacks are better while Kojiro's NP produces a lot of stars at once. I don't think they should have an entire tier difference and unlike Hassan Kojiro will eventually be able to utilize the stars for himself after the buff on his 3rd skill (which the other Assassins fail to do).

Caligula D -> C
I was too harsh on him. He may be unreliable and his NP equals toilet paper but his damage output is pretty respectable.

Added Paracelsus and Babbage. I'm not sure what I should write about Jekyll & Hyde since they are such an unique case. I need to think about them a bit more before I can give them a proper evaluation.

S:
- Mashu Kyrielight
- Robin Hood
- Cu Chulainn (Fate Stay Night)
- Hans Christian Andersen
These Servants are the best of their kind. All of them can fit in most teams and will bring great results.
Mashu is the only Servant in the game that sports 0 cost and comes with several supportive skills that tremendously bolster your defense. Having a combination of Taunt and Invincibility makes your entire party immune against damage for an entire turn and both her NP and skill will reduce further damage to an acceptable amount. There is no literally no reason to ever exclude Mashu if you can optimize the rest of party and have a spot open.
Hans takes the title of best budget support. Thanks to his skill he can fire his NP off the first turn to buff the entire team which is a great boon for any team. While there is a random factor attached to it Hans has no problem to spam his NP several times, provided he survives long enough with his low stats.
Cu Chulainn can always be included as a Servant for the backrow and excels to fix unpleasant situations. He is nigh indestrucible thanks to Protection of Arrows and even has an additional Guts skill. His NP deals decent damage with a defense debuff and has an instant kill chance, complementing Cu's role very nicely.
Robin Hood makes the cut to S despite needing a team that helps him to build up his NP gauge. He pretty much functions as a 1-time nuke outside of Arts Team and cannot contribute much otherwise due to his bad stat distribution and mediocre skills. However his NP damage is so absurdly high and he is borderline broken in a dedicated team, making him the best general boss killer in the 3* department.

A:
- Gaius Julius Caesar
- Euryale
- David
- Cu Chulainn (Prototype)
- Leonidas
- Ushiwakamaru
- St. George
- Medea
- Lu Bu
This tier includes mostly Servants that are either very good in specific compositions, can provide good support or have defined roles that can be quite essential for harder content. They do have some flaws but they aren't that detrimental to make these Servants less desireable.
Caesar and Ushiwakamaru have the Charisma skill and feature a decent ST NP for solid damage output. Unfortunately they are both Quick-based which limits their damage potential somewhat but they make great Support Servants nonetheless.
David is an even better Support Servant with his party-wide Evade skill and his NP can seal an enemy's NP for an extra turn of action. However his deck doesn't match with his NP, resulting in a mismatched deck that lessens his damage output a bit.
Euryale will be an essential Servant later on due to her role as male counter. She deals tons of damage against male enemies and will trivialize a lot of the toughest boss fights in the game, which earns her place in the A-Tier.
Proto Cu functions similarly to his original counterpart, trading some of the legendary endurance for the ability to kill Beast-type enemies like the dreaded Chimeras. It makes him more situational but he is still a solid Lancer even outside of that role and can perform just as well as the original Cu as a backup Servant.
Leonidas and St. George are great tanks. Both have Taunt and Guts which are essential for their role. The difference between them lies within their deck and the way how they incorporate the Taunt effect. St. George is more suited for Arts team and has his Taunt right away for 3 turns. Leonidas in the other hand is better for Buster Teams but relies on his NP for the Taunt and his Taunt skill last only 1 turn but provides a buff to his NP generation. On top of that his NP will provide an ample amount of Critical stars, further increasing his value as offensive support.
Medea is an unique Servant since she is able to nullify buffs with her ST NP which she can spam with ease. That makes her incredible useful for fights in which Servants tend to spam Invulnerability, Evade or other multiple buffs which become more common later on.
Lu Bu is often dubbed as discount Heracles and rightfully so. He has the highest attack of any 3* Servant and features 3 Buster cards alongside a ST Buster NP.  His Valor skill buffs his attack, futher increasing his impressive offensive. However, he is quite frail and his defense buff is somewhat lackluster compared to an Evade or even Guts skill.

B:
- Fergus
- Arash
- Hector
- Medusa
- Alexander
- Edward Teach
- Cu Chulainn (Caster)
- Paracelsus
- Mozart
- Jing Ke
- Hassan of the Cursed Arm
- Sasaki Kojirou
- Kiyohime
- Asterios
B-Tier contains all the above-average to mediocre stuff. They are all solid picks and have some niches that can make them shine but will have some flaws attached to them.
Fergus is a Saber that copied Lu Bu and learned a thing or two about survival. That makes him useful for Buster-oriented teams and he will function decently enough in them. However he lacks the raw damage output of the Berserker class compared to Lu Bu and compared to Caesar he is very selfish outside of his NP.
Arash is known for his role as a suicide bomber. While that may sound like that you have to fight with 5 Servants instead of 6 this makes him universally useable in any team that wants to have a quick wave clear and being a 1* Servant makes him incredibly cheap. He has incredible AoE damage and can shine against multiple Saber Servants who will get destroyed by him. However, don't expect him to do anything outside of that.
Hector has an unimpressive skill set but compensates that for a AoE NP that can apply a defense debuff and ignores defense. He is able to Buster Brave Chain with NP which makes him useful against multiple Archers. Proof of Friendship can be a panic button, though a bit unreliable.
Medusa and Alexander have AoE NPs that allows them to clear a wave with relatively ease. There is really no big difference between them though Medusa has a slight edge over Alexander if you are picky enough.
Blackbeard can be even better in that role due being Buster-based and featuring several attack buffs to bolster his damage output. However he has lower stats due to being a 2*.
Caster Cu profits from the broken Evade skill, his Lancer counterparts share with him. However he is unimpressive on the offensive. He suffers from a mismatched deck and an AoE-NP, reducing his viability in boss fights. While his lack of damage is mitigated somewhat by his passives, it makes Caster Cu mediocre overall.
Paracelsus while lacking somewhat in offensive stats can be quite useful against waves of Assassin as he is able to charge his NP pretty quickly. Like Mozart he can boost the Arts performance of the party but trades explosive increase for duration. Outside of that he has a targetable Guts skill which can come in handy.
Mozart has one clear role; being useful in Arts teams. His deck is Arts-based, his Arts NP applies solid debuffs and his skill boosts the Arts cards of your team (imagine Robin Hood with that sweet damage). Outside of that he is pretty much a 1* Servant, so he suffers from bad stats.
Jing Ke has good offensive stats for an Assassin and even has a ST NP. But she suffers from low hit counts for an Assassin which makes her worse in terms of star generation compared to her fellow Assassins. While she can increase her own star weight she cannot boost her critical damage and being a Quick-based Servant limits her damage output even further.
Both Kojiro and CA Hassan are excellent options for a Star generator. Similar to Cu Hassan has a broken Evade skill, giving him good sustain. In comparision Kojiro's star generation is less on his normal attacks but his NP and skill generates a great amount of them at once. Both do their job very well albeit somewhat differently.
Kiyohime is a Berserker that provides an AoE NP with an added stun effect. Due to her class and the highest level of Madness Enhancement this makes her an effective wave clearer for general use. Outside of that she features really weird stats, making her less useful for boss fights.
Asterios is a quite unique Berserker since his NP provides debuffs on enemies which lasts a good amount of time. He has decent damage outside of that, his skills and class giving him the edge he needs despite being a 1*.

C:
- Diarmuid
- Romulus
- Boudica
- Mephistopheles
- Charles Babbage
- Shakespeare
- Charles-Henri Sanson
- Mata Hari
- Darius
- Caligula
- Eric Bloodaxe
- Spartacus
Servants from this tier range from just medicore to below-average. They aren't that good and there are alternatives in the higher tiers that will perform better.
Romulus and Diarmuid are pretty unimpressive and outclassed by the Cus, especially the latter. Unless you like them there is no reason to use them over the best dogs.
Boudica is plagued by bad stats and only provides defensive buffs with her NP which isn't good enough for a Support-oriented Servant. She will get better though after her Strengthening Quest.
Mephisto has a mismatched deck, a skill set that is all over the place and really bad stats. He really doesn't know what he wants to be and that makes quite lackluster.
Babbage fails utterly in his role as an offensive Caster thanks to his atrocious stats. He has the worst Atk among all 3* Servants and having an AoE NP on top of that makes him pretty awful. His only saving grace are his ability to Buster Brave Chain and skills that boost his damage output to somewhat acceptable levels. There are generally much better choices though.
Shakespeare has a Buster buff which can be useful but he is kinda useless outside of that. Like Boudica he will see some improvements later down the line, becoming a better Support for Buster teams.
Mata Hari and Sanson can excel in very specific situations. Outside of that they are not really good and Kojiro or Hassan are much better choices for your Assassin.
Darius, Eric and Spartacus can be used to clear waves if you don't want to use Arash or Kiyohime for some reason. They try to be tanky which really doesn't work that well for Berserkers who always receive effective damage.
Caligula is an unreliable Servant but has a lot of damage potential. All of his skills give an massive damage increase but Imperial Privilege is ever so unreliable and Sadist gives him a Defense debuff which can be fatal for a fragile Berserker. His NP is utterly useless as well.

D:
- Gilles (Saber)
- Benkei
- The Phantom of the Opera
These are the worst Servants in the game. Unless you have masochismic tendencies, avoid these at all costs.

 

6 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

There are tons of F2P clears for Chain Challenges and Hero Battles on the Internet which says a lot for how little you really need to do well. That said I’m starting to prefer F/GO more and more.

The problem with FEH in general is the lack of actual 'content'.
Aside from the usual Gacha grinding stuff (Tempest Trials, grinding Lvls and SP) there is so little to look forward to. The story chapters are pretty lame and in terms of length an entire chapter feels like the progress of a single arrow in FGO.  There is simply not enough to emerge oneself into.
Of course FGO has the advantage of being based on a Visual Novel but FEH should really do something about this because its gameplay starts to get trivial and the units themselves lack the personality or interaction with each other. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Talandar

[MrSmokestack]

@Talandar Any thoughts on moving Mozart to A after he gets his strengthening? Plugsuit makes him a lot more flexible.

I would put Jekyll in C because he requires a lot of setup to work well. His main advantages are his enormous potential HP cap, permanent boost to Buster effectiveness, and enhanced Monstrous Strength and Stun as Hyde.

I don’t think that’s enough to offset having two Buster cards, so no brave chain, an awful initial class in Assassin, and no NP. He also has no CE to an extent because you really want something like K-Scope to transform into Hyde ASAP.

And as for FEH, I have the same sentiments so you’re preaching to the choir a bit there.

[Sire]

With the FEH deal, I honestly hopped over to FGO because I started becoming disillusioned with the way Fire Emblem Heroes was being handled. While I do enjoy the tactical gameplay of FEH as well as the general setting (being a fan of Fire Emblem and all), I find FGO to be superior in every other way. In a short comparison, I would say FEH is quantity while FGO represents quality. There are tons of things to do in Fire Emblem Heroes since something is almost always going on (and tons of heroes to raise), but when Fate/Grand Order does something, it is a big deal and is really enjoyable.

Essentially, FGO is now my mobile game of choice. I said it plenty of times before, but my enthusiasm for playing FEH is basically gone. If I'm lucky, I'll log in just to get the login bonuses, provided I log-in at all...
* * * * *
Man, I can't wait for Saber Wars. I want to roll on the gacha and start farming so I can get "easy" Pieces and Foreign Hearts! I should be able to continue ascending Orion, Tamamo Mae, and Artoria Lancer.

Here's an infographic of Saber Wars loot, courtesy of Reddit.

[Shiki]

56 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Any thoughts on moving Mozart to A after he gets his strengthening? Plugsuit makes him a lot more flexible.

In general there would be a lot of changes with Strengthening Quests. Most notable changes would be:
- Boudica (suddenly she becomes pretty respectable with her NP being practically Hans lite with more sustain but less NP spam)
- Mozart (As you mentioned he gets a really ridicilous 3rd Skill and with stuff like Plugsuit his 1* Star becomes quite moot)
- Shakespeare (considering he is Buster support, getting a targetable NP charge is pretty nifty)
- Jing Ke (her 3rd skill and NP upgrade fixes her entire damage problem)

Since I do intend to update this list with every 'big' update this will eventually happen.

[QKumber]

Mind if I add something about the low tiered berserkers there?

Spartacus having a self charging NP gauge skill is a big plus for a daily farmer! At lvl10 it grants 30% NP gauge. Not to mention he has his own steroid on skill3 (buster up);

Darius has a somewhat usable 1st skill (still bad with 1arts card), but he has almost 1k more atk then Kyohime and his np has a better modifier (500 vs 600);

Eric has a bit less atk then Kyo (being a 1star base) but even still, his NP has prob the fastest animation and still is enough to clear hands.

Honestly, I don`t see why Kyo would be considered the best budget Berseker - her stun is a overcharge effect and can be resisted, her burn is useless. Her regular buster cards are among the weakest with her low atk value when compared to Darius for exemple.

[MrSmokestack]

My favorites of the low-rarity berserkers are Caligula and Asterios.

Caligula has damage boosts on all three of his skills which makes him hit incredibly hard with a Taunt support, mainly Leonidas since he gets a Buster Up after strengthening.

Asterios’ garbage stats belie his kit. His strengthen skill is incredible and he can potentially solo entire waves if he is allowed to NP over and over.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@Talandar honestly i would put Proto Cu in S especially after Strengthen

[MacLovin]

Shouldn't Medusa/Alexander get merged with Blackbeard? 

And why is hector >Medusa/Alexander? Is it because he's the only silver/bronze AoE Lancer that's decent as farming?

[Shiki]

12 hours ago, QKumber said:

Honestly, I don`t see why Kyo would be considered the best budget Berseker

Well, she isn't. Lu Bu is still the king in that regard.

With the exception of Spartacus Kiyohime has superior NP gain compared to her competition which becomes very evident if she gets her Brave Chain off or you start with an Arts card and use her Quick/Arts card at the end. That's pretty important for a farming Servant especially since MLB Kaleidoscope or even its base form isn't a reasonable resource for everybody and Mage's Association only gives you 20% charge.

Spartacus has far less attack than her until he gets both of his Strengthening Quests. After that he will become comparable if not slightly better than her since he has an NP upgrade and a stronger Mana Burst that's why he's sitting in C for now.
Darius has a lot of problem with his NP gain and Golden Rule doesn't really fix that. Eric has the same problem so both are kinda bad for quick farming purposes. Eric in particular loses outright to Kiyohime if she gets her Mana Burst later.

7 hours ago, Skurge said:

Shouldn't Medusa/Alexander get merged with Blackbeard? 

And why is hector >Medusa/Alexander? Is it because he's the only silver/bronze AoE Lancer that's decent as farming?

That's what I get for not copy-pasting properly.

Quote

There is no particular order within tiers.

I don't particularly care about position within a tier since the difference is most times miniscule (like Alexander vs Medusa vs Teach) or their utility is not comparable at all.

7 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

honestly i would put Proto Cu in S especially after Strengthen

I would assume because of his potential for Crits, right?

Edited January 2, 2018 by Talandar

[QKumber]

1 hour ago, Talandar said:

Well, she isn't. Lu Bu is still the king in that regard.

I meant more as a day to day farmer.

NP Gain? If you really wanna brave chain with your berserkers for np gain you can prob better optimize your teams for faster farming. No reason for anyone not having at least MLB Leylines/Dragon Meridian (50% starter np)

So considering we are using Spartacus as a slot1 and using a support baterry like our ever so present Waver support, NP gain should not be among the important factors in this specific case IMO. We are probably having different approaches here.

I still value Darius higher atk or Eric faster animations for day to day uses over Kyo better np generation, just wanted to explain why I guess

 

[Shiki]

If we're using Waver then the discussion is moot since any AoE Servant with Imaginary Element or even better Halloween Princess becomes viable for that. I don't think that you should expect that NA can pull of a fast budget clear with the current line-up and that's where Waver excels.

Her better NP gain is definitely relevant if we're talking about more self-sufficient setups since that allows you to take an AoE NP for your support (which more likely has MLB Kaleidoscope and NP2+ on it) instead of Waver.

7 hours ago, QKumber said:

I still value Darius higher atk or Eric faster animations for day to day uses over Kyo better np generation

Just saying but Kiyohime can kill Hands just fine and her animations are at most 1-2 sec longer than Erics (you're not Gudako, so shut up). So those aren't really valid points against her.
The only comparable case is Spartacus due to his NP charge skill but right now he just doesn't have the damage behind him to kill the hands with just his NP. That's why I'm rating him lower until his Strengthening comes out.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Talandar

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

3 hours ago, Talandar said:

I would assume because of his potential for Crits, right?

Yup

 

One of few servant with full 3 Turn Self Modification. Granted he's not perfect in that he had no ATK buff or class type buff on his own and of course kinda terrible NP, but 2-3 turns of dealing 290% damage is quite a huge deal and he have PfA over everyone else. He faces competition in Crit Lancer with several guys but each had their own flaw whereas Proto's flaw is more on a "he don't have enough" instead of "he lacks something"

Jaguarnan lacks natural absorb outside forest which is made up by her Instinct, and high cd on 1st(a whooping downtime of 7) but is pretty much great for everything else(especially considering that her 1st.... is actually her least important skill in grand scheme of things)

Hozoin(which i honestly think is actually a solid group servant with proper set up) requires NP usage, which thankfully isn't too hard because of his Hassan with Quick UP of NP gain - theres no reason not to do this imo, Quick is Hozoin's second weakest card so he should use it to fill NP if possible and use NPAB as flagship offense, where even with just NPAB he deals 600% damage.

One thing that would stop me from reccomending Proto Cu is his absurd scaling on 1st making him extremely upgrade reliant although his mats is fairly light, outside of that he's a consistent crit servant with good survivability that can solo rather well that goes utter balistic for 3 turns against Beast.

 

Honestly i'm as much of a fan of FSN Cu as one can gets but i honestly think he's a bit overrated in that he somehow stays as THE Top 3* Lancer, with some saying he's better than many 4* and 5*. Its a view i personally share, but i won't say he's like wayy better than Jaguarman/Hozoin/Proto that he's a tier apart. He's on par with them at best but its because they are the cream of the crop for 3* servant to begin with. Cu is somewhat mediocre as a group servant since his survivalist approach isn't backed by anything else and his godly survivability hinges on 2 terrible skill