Fate/Grand Order General

[redlight]

Reines' skills:

Spoiler

• Team defense up (3T) and damage cut (3T) and small amount of NP charge

• Charge 1 teammates NP and increase their attack (3T) and reduce self damage (3T)

• Give 1 teammate invincibility (2 hits, 3 turns) and increase debuff resistance (3T)

NP is really something

Spoiler

NP reduces enemy team & crit attack (OC). Self debuff removal. Removes team's class disadvantage for 3 turns

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by redlight

[Magical Glace]

So, pulled 390 quartz for Reines

Spoils:

• 1x Saber Diarmuid (now NP3)
• 2x Luvia 
• 1x Fionn (first copy)
• 1x Berserker Atalante (now NP3)
• 2x Waver CE
• 4x Gray CE
• 9x Flat and Svin CE

No Reines or any 5* really.  There's some nice things though, getting closer to perfect Diarmuid now that I'm done saving Gold Fou for Richard and can use them on him.

[redlight]

@Glaceon MageOof. At least you got a few things out of it

[DehNutCase]

Spoiler

And this is why I don't use Arts teams unless absolutely necessary. Bloody NP4 Artoria took 84 turns to shoot her down. (My hp is much safer than it looks, incidentally---if I wasn't going to kill Kiara this turn I would've made a different, more heal heavy move. In the absolute worst case I would've Command Seal'd for Medea's NP, but fortunately I didn't need to use any.)

 

Looking back on it, any team that uses Atk debuffs rather than defense buffs should be able to destroy Kiara, unless she happens to be immune to them. (I doubt it, though, since it looks like she's only immune to stuns and charms---that is, disable effects.)

 

Edit: Here's the pre-kill screenshot, the kill was so guaranteed it's not even funny---and the only reason I was so low was because Kiara NP'd my face alongside a crit.

Spoiler

Double Edit: Honestly I think Medea deserves a grail or two for this performance. (Regular Medea does great vs. Kiara too, since it's a very easy way to clear all of Kiara's stuff for very low deployment cost.)

Edited April 27, 2019 by DehNutCase

[redlight]

Here's the datamine in case anyone's interested

Spoiler

Gray: https://fgo.wiki/w/格蕾

Luvia: https://fgo.wiki/w/阿斯特赖亚

Reines: https://fgo.wiki/w/司马懿〔莱妮丝〕

EDIT: 

Spoiler

Honestly not too sure about Grey QQQAB with buster NP. They could've at least given her more hit counts for quick as it's 3. I don't know what the second effect of her final skill is so I'll reserve my judgement. But it seems that she has a passive +10 NP gen

Oof. Her battery is basically less than Bedi's, but has resist against all debuffs, albeit smaller percantage than what Bedi has.

She seems to have an anti-undead niche tho that's a trait belonging to regular enemies 

Luvia is a crit monster with a focus on Arts tho she has 2 buster so you could position for more damage for BC. Her arts Mana Burst gives 30 stars at 5 CD (lvl10). Has a star absorb skill that requires 5 stars to activate and it also gives a boost to crit damage as well as NP gen (it's also 4CD at lvl10). Her first skill is gives a decent boost to atk, def and np gen. Her NP generates 20 stars and deals extra damage against evil aligned servants. She's top tier for sure IMO at least.

I'm not too sure about Reines. She has good skills and NP, but her Rider class kinda gets in the way of things with star absorption. Tho if I'm not mistaken, you should be able to negate class disadvantage for zerks. Uwu what's this? Her targetable battery boosts NP damage. Oh. It has a attack debuff demerit. Wonk wonk

Edited April 27, 2019 by redlight

[Silverly]

Oh Luvia... oy vey. Glad she’s in, but the choice of art for her leaves a lot to be desired. The style is just not very pleasant in my eyes.

[redlight]

So... Luvia is permanently in the summoning pool. If you miss her you can get her as your free pick later down the line

My thoughts/review on Grey as she's pretty controversial. I'm a novice so there are probably mistakes in this review

Spoiler

Her deck is definitely not the best that it could've been, but her kit somewhat salvages her. She has the highest ATK stats of all 4* assassin, tied with summer Ushi funnily enough (she has more hit counts tho, but is outdamaged by Grey in the NP department), but Ushi's is probably better with that offensive buff removal on the enemy team. However, Gray's OC effect benefits the party more compared to Ushi's OC effect due to card variety. She's going to be compared a lot to summer Shishou, summer Ushi, Carmilla and Enkidu. She has something similar to all of them, but Enkidu and Ushi probably the most. However there are many differences between them despite similarities, but more on that later.

Surprisingly enough she doesn't have Presence Concealment and her quick hit count isn't the best (3), but she has a NP gain passive that gives +10%, putting her near Enkidu's NP gain when using her arts card. 3x(0.71+0.10)=2.43 compared to 5x(0.53)=2.65. Ok there's a gap, but the NP gain is pretty good tho (unfortunately 1 arts). Shishou's is the same as Gray's coincidentally. Independent Action gives a rather decent boost (11%) to crit damage putting her quick cards to some use. Magic Resistance gives 15%. Remember that last passive when I'll be talking about the last skill.

Her first skill is basically Monstrous Strength A (30%) plus additional damage against Undead enemies (100%). It's a 5CD skill that lasts 3 turns. She needs as much attack as she can with that triple quick deck. She has higher attack (9456) than summer Shishou (9049) and it's above average for an SR. But that triple quick haha. Still, more attack is good as with that skill active her attack with quick will be a bit above her regular attack stat (9834 if I'm not mistaken). Her anti-undead niche isn't that impressive, but gives her a rather good use for farming those enemies if they happen to appear as she has a battery and AOE NP5. It'll come in use if you remember you have her. KnK has undead enemies, but that event already had a rerun before she appeared. The only hope you have her being used for that event is if they rerun the collab with more KnK servants released, but that's a stretch.

Her second skill is a QB Mana Burst (40%) with Invulnerability attached to it at 6 CD max. The cooldown is justified with the invul and the boost is rather nice. It's kind of a combination of Enkidu's two skills: Transfiguration and Presence Detection. While not being identical word for word, the similarities are there. Two skills in one in this case gives her more versatility for the other two skill slots for better or for worse compared to Enkidu. Enkidu always gets a Buster buff, but it's second effect is way too unreliable unless soloing or something. His boost is higher, but Gray's skill gives her a more reliable boost as you get what you're shown. You don't get access to Arts boost, but it was unreliable in getting it in the first place anyways. The problem with this skill is that it has two completely different roles and the Invul might have just made the skill CD even longer. You either want to boost your damage or protect yourself. If you use it for the intent of one you miss out on the other for 6 turns and if you're using it only for offense then the Invul made the skill worse. Pierce Invul might have been better as the CD would have been shorter and it'd have made the skill into a better offensive one. Tho she has at least versatility with that skill.

Her last skill is a bit of a disappointment. While yes, a battery is good, it's arguably worse than Bedi's. She gets a static 20% across level ups, but has 30% debuff resist for 3 turns at lvl10. Maybe DW thought that a budget battery too OP. I dunno. The debuff resist boost is lower than Bedi's tho his is only mental ones. Remember that Magic Resistance? Well she has 45% debuff resist with this skill active if I'm not mistaken. Should protect her from debuffs better at least.

Her NP is a easy NP5 so she'll have 500% damage without any trouble. As I mentioned before, her NP helps out the party due to the benefits the OC brings. It's awkward in quick deck, but it can give a chance to salvage bad draws.

IMO she's not the worst welfare or as bad as summer Shishou and is probably somewhere in the middle when put into a welfare tierlist, but I could be talking out of my ass. I'm tired so good night. Leave feedback

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by redlight

[DehNutCase]

The memorial quest said it only gave rewards the first time through, but it's all lies, lieeeeeeeees. (I got jack all from beating it---unless by 'first time' it meant the story quest.)

That said, this team definitely man-handles Demonic Bodhisattva, the raw sustain is more than enough to stomp full powered Kiara into the ground. (I have all 3 servants if you happen to have 2 of the 3 and want to use a support for the third slot.)

Only the back-line matters, incidentally. A Medea does 90% of what my entire front-line is supposed to do.

I still have all of my Command Spells so you can get over bad RNG by just full healing or forcing a Medea NP, which is nice.

[MrSmokestack]

Luvia is pretty good.

Gray is just better Summer Scathach.

Reines is trash.

On the NA side of things, got over 70 missions done. Once that’s done there’ll be more missions to do on JP. Yaaaaay.

@DehNutCase Now do the fight again. Except this time, buy only the Whip from the shop and nothing else. Have fun!

Edited April 27, 2019 by MrSmokestack

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

 

@DehNutCase Now do the fight again. Except this time, buy only the Whip from the shop and nothing else. Have fun!

I don't have that kind of time, man.

Edit: I mean, it does look a ton easier to burst down despite all her defense buffs since the Whip only version doesn't have a lot of raw hp, so it does look like I can just have Jack 3 turn her, but I'll do that for the rerun.

Edited April 28, 2019 by DehNutCase

[Alexmender]

The new servants look pretty nice, for me it'd be Luvia-face>>>>the others because who can resist that "OHOHOHOHOHOHOHO" and she suplexes trains stuff. I just play NA so it's going to be 2 years before getting her (Hopefully there's going to be a free 4* ticket so I can just skip that banner, I don't really care about Reines or Keyneth for that matter).

Gray looks ok, she seems better than summer Shishou in terms of stats and skills Shishou is still hotter, tho, but she'll probably share the same fate of being a farmer. I'm not too keen on her FA art but maybe it'll grow on me after a while.

- - -

Now on the NA side of things, CCC got crazy fast. I just reached the point where I have to farm like a madman in order to weaken Kiara and get BB...stupid 180 kills mission, the types of enemies it wants barely spawn so it's just mindless grinding on top of mindless grinding and even then not so mindless because the enemies don't suck, I'd go and kill 100% power Kiara but I want to finish the story properly before doing that.

[YotsuMaboroshi]

35 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

Now on the NA side of things, CCC got crazy fast. I just reached the point where I have to farm like a madman in order to weaken Kiara and get BB...stupid 180 kills mission, the types of enemies it wants barely spawn so it's just mindless grinding on top of mindless grinding and even then not so mindless because the enemies don't suck, I'd go and kill 100% power Kiara but I want to finish the story properly before doing that.

If it's 180 Eaters, the Secret Nape is probably the best bet, since that has 3 Eater TYPE I and 3 Eater Type III.  Since there are TYPE I there, you can use 2 MLB of the 3* CE to double that to 6.  Even without that though, I wouldn't say that they barely spawn compared with other enemy types.  Just need to check which quests have them.

[MrSmokestack]

3 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

I don't have that kind of time, man.

Edit: I mean, it does look a ton easier to burst down despite all her defense buffs since the Whip only version doesn't have a lot of raw hp, so it does look like I can just have Jack 3 turn her, but I'll do that for the rerun.

There’s a minimum turn of that quest somewhere on niconico. Even with Skadi the run is still very RNG heavy.

The old-fashioned way to do that quest was a frontline of NP2+ Arts supports and Archuria.

Finished all missions currently available. Now to tickle Kiara’s ear for five days in search of Sakura chips.

Edited April 28, 2019 by MrSmokestack

[DehNutCase]

4 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

There’s a minimum turn of that quest somewhere on niconico. Even with Skadi the run is still very RNG heavy.

The old-fashioned way to do that quest was a frontline of NP2+ Arts supports and Archuria.

Yeah Archuria's probably the safe, low command spell bet since it's hard to get 3 turn card type buffs in Quick, whereas Archuria has 40% Arts for 3 turns by herself if we include territory creation. (That would've been my backup plan if neither Jack nor Scathach panned out.)

 

Mind, by 3 turn with Jack I meant more kill her in 3 turns while all buffs are up rather than actually doing the entire fight in 3 turns---that is, I stack enough buffs (which might take upwards of 6 turns depending on how much I'd need to stack) for Jack to OHKO the boss, and I make her do it three times with 1 or 2 command spells---a very lucky or precise run can probably do it without command spells, but it would take some pretty good card RNG or very precise buff control. (If you bring Jack back in with 5 units worth of buffs right when a waver or two are coming off cooldown she should be able to loop NP without needing any command spells.)

Depending on whether Break Bars clear debuffs or not Scathach might be nice to just stun lock the boss---letting you save a unit-slot who could've been providing debuff resistance rather than raw damage at the cost of always needing 2 commands spells minimum.

 

Testing stuff like this is pretty much the main thing that takes time for the harder fights, since it's not exactly consistent what kind of things you're allowed to do in any given fight. Demonic Bodhisattva is completely stun immune, I believe, plus breaking the bar probably clears debuffs anyway, whereas Heaven's Hole is probably 100% stun-locked by someone like Scathach---although I'm not sure how her break bars work, haven't tested it.

[QKumber]

50 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Testing stuff like this is pretty much the main thing that takes time for the harder fights, since it's not exactly consistent what kind of things you're allowed to do in any given fight. Demonic Bodhisattva is completely stun immune, I believe, plus breaking the bar probably clears debuffs anyway, whereas Heaven's Hole is probably 100% stun-locked by someone like Scathach---although I'm not sure how her break bars work, haven't tested it.

I am not sure which version is which so let me share my exp: I bought the 15k thing so I faced the smaller Kiara version. Also bought the 1k kp that negates her QUICK resistance.

Team was Melt (mlb BGrail) + Waver + Scatahch (mlb Knight of Marines - any 60%+ ce works, this just adds a bit more dmg) + Waver (kaleido for OC) with plugsuit Mystic code.

I think Kiara was imune to def break from waver`s np (not sure). Triple np 1st turn, Seal for Melt np on turns 2 and 3. Needed couple more dmg from facecards on both waves

Her HP isn`t that high to make impossible for a DPS with buff stacks to kill her in 3 turns spam, so it seems doable

edit: did that because I REALLY wanted to read the story, Got damn it was tear jerker and Melt is such a loveable character <3

Edited April 28, 2019 by QKumber

[DehNutCase]

14 minutes ago, QKumber said:

Her HP isn`t that high to make impossible for a DPS with buff stacks to kill her in 3 turns spam, so it seems doable

Main issue is that the bulk of her smaller Kiara's defenses comes from the 50% card type down, and Quick straight up doesn't have good 3 turn Quick up options as of right now in US. (There's a ton of good 1 turn 50% ups, but she has 3 hp bars.)

Arts and Buster don't have that issue because Artoria has 40% by herself and Merlin has 50% on top of his 20% charisma. Tamamo is also okay if you have lot of NP2 people but if you don't Waver kind of destroys every other offensive support because 5% NP drain a turn is one of the few fights where he can be considered a 'specialist,' since fixing tiny bits of missing NP to get to 100% is the one part of his kit nobody else has.

 

Regarding the Waver NP thing I think the smaller Kiara has a 50% debuff resistance, so it's pretty likely that he just whiffed. (Unless you used his NP a lot, in which case something else is going on.)

[QKumber]

5 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Regarding the Waver NP thing I think the smaller Kiara has a 50% debuff resistance, so it's pretty likely that he just whiffed. (Unless you used his NP a lot, in which case something else is going on.)

It was probably that! I only used his np once on that fight and tbh mainly for the OC bonus so Melt could get a higher quick boost herself

 

5 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Main issue is that the bulk of her smaller Kiara's defenses comes from the 50% card type down,

Yeah, I`ve retried without buying the resistance card type and my setup just did not had enough gas to burn her down with only 2 CS. Hopefully I`ll figure something out later down the event, for now I was mostly just bum rushing to get BB and complete some missions!

57 done, 43 to go!

[Shiki]

When you do the Whip-less version then sit through 68 turns of mindless repetition and think: Why am I subjecting myself to such torture? 

Well that was a waste of time but at least I experienced first hand how good Nightingale can be for such fights.

Is there a way to replay the fight after the story? I missed the Whip version after all and that one seems harder if you don't purchase all the KP stuff.

[redlight]

@AlexmenderAh man, what happened? E- luck in your message... You didn't get Melt?? Ah man. Do you at least have any SQ left? Maybe free quests?

[YotsuMaboroshi]

2 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

When you do the Whip-less version then sit through 68 turns of mindless repetition and think: Why am I subjecting myself to such torture? 

Well that was a waste of time but at least I experienced first hand how good Nightingale can be for such fights.

Is there a way to replay the fight after the story? I missed the Whip version after all and that one seems harder if you don't purchase all the KP stuff.

It should show up as a free quest after the story, at least according to the wiki.

[Alexmender]

2 hours ago, redlight said:

@AlexmenderAh man, what happened? E- luck in your message... You didn't get Melt?? Ah man. Do you at least have any SQ left? Maybe free quests?

Even worse, I used like 180 SQ and got nothing but bare minimums (and a spook EMIYA...) and those weren't even event CEs.

The saltiest funniest part is that I got the 5* CE with the log in ticket AFTER I finished the story which felt like a kick in the teeth...at least it's effects are pretty nice and it'll get some use in the re-run. 

I still have quite a few SQ to do and the May tickets so I haven't given up but I've felt pretty unlucky lately in FEH I'm at a 5.50% rate on that picnic banner so it hurts even more.

[Shiki]

5 hours ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

It should show up as a free quest after the story, at least according to the wiki.

Wooo, I can attempt self-flagellation part 2.

@Alexmender Did you clear the story? It might help as a catalyst.
EDIT: I should read more carefully, my bad.

-----

Looking at the Case Files Servants the ones from the gacha are imo pretty good.

Reines' gimmick is tailored to Berserkers. She offers them a far bigger durability increase than any other Servant, essentially letting them have their actual HP value while adding Waver's Def buff and PfA Inv. edition on top of it. She has good enough NP gain to be able to upkeep this buff, too. It doesn't do much for other classes though unless you go against Berserkers to cancel out their effective damage.
Her synergy with the class also plays into her favor regarding her own. Berserker go in 2 ways; either they don't care because they can't pull stars for life or they have EAM-like skills to flip her Rider status off. Granted she doesn't offer any buffs for stronger crits which limits her damage amp potential compared to Waver or Merlin with their buffs. Still, she should be a decent Support for those select Berserkers that can appreciate her negating their weakness. Far from Gao tier though.
I only wish she had a better NP prop. 10/30 is a really awkward spread and while it still works for some teams a 20/50 would have made her a lot more competitive. I guess they didn't want to make too similar to Zhuge Liang (which didn't do her any favor).

Astraea on the other hand takes Rama's kit and puts some serious steroids in it. Not only she does have his best skill (with the same CD) she actually has a super-powered Instinct to feed it and this skill doubles as her Mana Burst. Her Arts NP offers some decent refund and it has a relatively common trait bonus on it, thus dealing reasonable damage pre-interlude. Add to the fact that she has decent internals on a Ruler body Luvia is ... very good overall. There is really not much to critize about her.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Magus of Memery

[MrSmokestack]

3 hours ago, Magus of Memery said:

Reines' gimmick is tailored to Berserkers. She offers them a far bigger durability increase than any other Servant, essentially letting them have their actual HP value while adding Waver's Def buff and PfA Inv. edition on top of it. She has good enough NP gain to be able to upkeep this buff, too. It doesn't do much for other classes though unless you go against Berserkers to cancel out their effective damage.
Her synergy with the class also plays into her favor regarding her own. Berserker go in 2 ways; either they don't care because they can't pull stars for life or they have EAM-like skills to flip her Rider status off.

Reines is a gimmick pick for Berserker DPSes. The two that come to mind are Jeanne Berserker and Penthesilea. Nobody else wants her.

Crit Berserkers lose too much damage from running her over the meta Casters. They want nothing to do with Reines. The best example is probably Raikou. Her “defense” is nuking things before they have a chance to attack her. The added bulk from Reines is superfluous.

However, Reines skills are not nearly as much of a problem as her class. The former can be buffed if they were underpowered, but there’s nothing to do about the latter. Rider class condemns her to a life of mediocrity.

Astraea meanwhile is excellent, and a very welcome addition to the normal gacha.

Edited April 30, 2019 by MrSmokestack

[DehNutCase]

50 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Crit Berserkers lose too much damage from running her over the meta Casters. They want nothing to do with Reines. The best example is probably Raikou. Her “defense” is nuking things before they have a chance to attack her. The added bulk from Reines is superfluous.

However, Reines skills are not nearly as much of a problem as her class. The former can be buffed if they were underpowered, but there’s nothing to do about the latter. Rider class condemns her to a life of mediocrity.

MHXA likes Reines too---her sustain, NP gen, and star gen is already good enough, and she even fixes the rider issue by dropping the star weight to 0%.

People with good instinct skills could also use Reines, but the only one I can think of off the top of my head that's a Beserker is Atalanta Alter, and her star absorb is high enough that she wouldn't have cared about Reines in the first place.

[Shiki]

6 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Crit Berserkers lose too much damage from running her over the meta Casters. They want nothing to do with Reines. The best example is probably Raikou. Her “defense” is nuking things before they have a chance to attack her. The added bulk from Reines is superfluous.

That's a "Double Merlin + Gilgamesh beats everything so why bother with anything else" statement. Couldn't care less about that considering she is obviously competing with Zhuge Liang in a team composition not with Merlin or Skadi.
Compared to him Reines' trade-off is lucrative. You lose the 50% Crit Dmg in exchange for far superior durability. Considering the whole problem with Berserkers in hard content is the latter, not the former, it's very well worth this trade since this will enable them to use their excellent burst damage more than once.

The only two Berserkers who don't care about Reines at all are Cu Alter and Heracles because they want more damage over durability as their skills provide the latter plentiful themselves.

6 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

However, Reines skills are not nearly as much of a problem as her class. The former can be buffed if they were underpowered, but there’s nothing to do about the latter. Rider class condemns her to a life of mediocrity.

If you expect her to be her general support like Gao or the Caster Quartet then obviously she doesn't hold up. On the other hand that's ignoring viable compositions and considering she enables some of the lesser Berserkers to function that's a far cry from trash.

Compared to actual fails like Osakabehime or Miyu that won't work for life Reines has a niche and by that alone she is good, just not Merlin/Skadi tier (and that's good because quite frankly this game doesn't need anymore broken supports).

5 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

People with good instinct skills could also use Reines, but the only one I can think of off the top of my head that's a Beserker is Atalanta Alter, and her star absorb is high enough that she wouldn't have cared about Reines in the first place.

Post-Strengthening Beowulf is another one with such tools.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Magus of Memery