Shiki Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) @Sire Do you mind changing my entry again? Sorry for being a bother. On 8.7.2018 at 3:42 AM, Mister Rogers said: :/ don't bulli best nurse You know she's probably still worth raising up for the buster buff. I'm not swayed by 'plot'. On 8.7.2018 at 4:34 AM, MrSmokestack said: While NP Strength Down is normally a mediocre debuff, the 50% Atk Down on her NP isn’t. Yeaaaah, about that; takes a while to get here. It happened October 2017 in JP. Before that her NP is quite lackluster. That being said Nightingale is by no means bad. From an objective standpoint she is one of the better picks-up compared to real letdowns like Drake or Medb. Might even be better than Vlad within her class since she is a more complete package and doesn't rely on having Support. It's just that I can't stand her character and art. --- Oh, start of a new page and we got Strengthening Part 4. How convenient. You know what that means. Spoiler Changes from previous list: Mozart B -> A Oh, boy, it's happening. Besides having a massive Arts booster he gets an 'Ultra Instinct' skill. What does it do? It produces 50 stars every 6 turns at max. level. Say hello to the best budget Arts support you can get. Asterios B -> A I teased this one a while ago and I will go through with it. Asterios is one of the best low-rarity Servants in the game if Grail usage is assumed and considering this kind of massive increase isn't as noticeable compared with other 2* and lower Servants, he is arguably the best target among the F2P selection. That being said without them he performs significantly worse due being quite frail. Spartacus C -> B Finally he gets his 3rd skill that fixes his lack of damage. Now he is one of the best Servants for farming with his effective damage against every class and sizeable NP charge skill. Good stuff. Bedivere A Before his NP interlude comes out he is just A and you have to keep in mind that he is story-locked. That's about it really when it comes to downsides though. Combined with his high ST damage and overall solid base stats he is the best Saber in terms of pure damage and one of the best free Servants in the game. Tawara Touta B At least his bonus trait is common enough to make him useable. His skillset offsets his bad bases good enough to earn him a spot in B. Probably the worst 3* Archer but that doesn't mean he is bad; his competition is just absurd. Hassan of Serenity B Honestly she doesn't seem very good but at least her NP is useable and the effects have a decent chance to stick by using her 3rd skill. Worse than HFH but not by that much, so B should be good enough for her. ---------- S: - Mash Kyrielight - Robin Hood - Cu Chulainn (Stay Night) - Medea - Hans Christian Andersen Spoiler These Servants are the best among the F2P pool. All of them can fit in any team and will bring great results. Even if you have a selection of SR or SSR Servants highly consider raising these guys, they will serve you well. Mash has a strong focus on defense and support. Her entire skillset is designed to give her party longevity, starting from a basic party-wide defense buff to a Taunt skill and targetable Invulnerability. Adding to that her NP even further reinforces the party's defense while providing a sizeable Atk buff. She is the only 0 cost Servant in the game and if you have struggles to meet your cost requirements, Mashu is always a great pick as a filler and will never be deadweight. Robin Hood is known as the prime damage dealer among the low rarity Servants. His NP, Yew Bow, has incredible scaling on its bonus effect, allowing him to reach numbers on poisoned targets that surpasses the majority of Servants in the game. Aside from that he doesn't offer much utility besides a meager Atk debuff and if his Sabotage skill misses his NP won't deal a lot of damage. Still, his NP makes him entirely worth it and once he gets some dedicated support he becomes unstoppable. Cu Chulainn, in contrast to his tendency for early deaths in other works, has reached immortality in this game. He is nigh indestrucible thanks to his Protection from Arrows skill and even has Battle Continuation to keep him covered if he runs out Evades or it is bypassed by Sure Hit or Ignore Invincibility. Disengage rounds out his kit with a small heal and, more importantly, debuff removal on a short cooldown. His NP deals decent damage with a defense debuff, complementing Cu's role as "the last man standing" very nicely. Medea has the rare niche of being able to remove buffs with her NP. This makes her incredibly useful for fights in which Servants tend to spam buffs. This is a common sight in high-level challenges. While her NP damage output is much lower compared to the average variety she can use it in quick succession which compliments her niche very well and can still be devastating if enough buffs are stacked on her. Her skill, Teachings of Circe, allows her to remove Debuffs from her team and give anyone a sizeable buff to their NP generation, expanding her role with another supportive trait. Hans takes the title of best budget support. Thanks to Rapid Divine Words he can use his NP right from the bat to buff the entire team which is a great boon for any team. There is a random factor attached to it and his low stats don't really help his longevity in combat but Hans has no problem to spam his NP several times before he crosses that line. A: - Gaius Julius Caesar - Bedivere - Euryale - David - Billy the Kid - Cu Chulainn (Prototype) - Leonidas - Ushiwakamaru - Georgios - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Fuma Kotaro - Lu Bu - Asterios(*) Spoiler This tier includes mostly Servants that are either outstanding in specific situation, can provide good support or have other defined roles that can be quite essential for more challenging content. They do have some smaller drawbacks but they are still reliable picks for most teams and it is recommended to have them around. Caesar possesses solid stats, features several offensive party buffs to improve the party's offense. His NP is ST, meaning he will deal a good amount of damage in Servant fights or other bosses. He doesn't have any particular weakness aside from lacking a skill for survival which doesn't hamper his utility much. Always a good choice with no real drawbacks, be it for raw damage or Support. Bedivere is the strongest 3* Saber that a F2P player has access to. He has strong base stats and a powerful NP that deals serious amount of damage. While his skills do not seem impressive they support his NP usage and Oath of Protection can be a very useful tool if it is used in conjunction with other defense buffs. Keep in mind that he is story-locked so unless you spent SQ on his rate-ups his damage output is a bit limited due to his low NP level. Still he will serve well, especially if he is supported by buffs. David is a Support-oriented Servant, having Charisma and the highly-valued Harp of Healing which grants the entire party a 1-time Evade. These alone would elevate him to a great Servant but there is more. He has the highest base Atk among the 3* or lower Archers and features a ST NP which means he can dish out decent damage. However his deck doesn't match with his NP type, having 3 Arts card. Therefore he is a bit hampered when it comes to maximum damage output. Still David is a very strong Servant, making him a good pick especially against enemies with AoE NPs. Euryale is the prime male Servant counter who are ever so often present in the game. The bonus trait against males elevates her damage to ridicilous amounts against them and will trivialize a lot of the toughest boss fights in the game, which earns her place in this tier. Even outside of her niche her skills give her enough power to be able to contribute for regular fights but she will perform quite a bit worse since half of her kit is tailored against males. Billy the Kid is the master of crits. He has the highest Crit multiplier in the game, allowing him to deal devastating amount of damage once he gets some Crit stars on his cards. If that doesn't do the job he can fire off his ST NP which he is able to use quite frequently thanks to Quick Draw and his explosive NP gain from his Crits. The only problem is that he is not able to provide the Stars necessary by himself and his best Crit multiplier only lasts a single turn, so he is pretty average until he can use his skills again. Nonetheless he is a force to be reckon with if you give him proper support. Proto Cu functions similarly to his original counterpart, trading some of the legendary endurance for a Crit focus and the ability to annihilate Beast-type enemies. It makes him more situational to use but he is still a solid Lancer even outside of that role and performs almost the same in most teams. Leonidas and Georgios are great tanks. Both have skills that grants them Taunt and Guts which are essential for that kind of role. The difference between them lies within their deck and the way how they receive the Taunt effect.Georgios is more suited for general use since he has his Taunt right away for 3 turns, coupled with a strong defense buff and can heal himself. His NP is unfortunately worthless because his Atk is almost non-existent and the Def buff is pretty low despite lasting for just a single turn. He has some meme potential with Siegfried though.Leonidas' Taunt skill lasts only 1 turn but provides a buff to his NP generation which in turn fuels his NP which grants the same benefits as Georgios. Having it on a NP means that Leonidas is potentially able to stack the defense buffs on it (also known as the Leonidas loop). On top of that he generates stars with it and coupled with his party-wide Buster buff he is much better suited for Buster teams than his Rider companion. Ushiwakamaru is similar to Caesar having multiple party-wide buffs in her disposal. What sets her apart from him is tje stupidly high multiplier on her NP, allowing her to outright destroy Casters and deal massive damage against anything else. She is one of the most well-rounded Servants in the game, having a good balance of offense, Support and survivability. Mozart has only a single role; be an Arts support. His stats are bad, his NP doesn't do any damage and Artistic Aesthetic might be the worst skill of all time. Yet he excels in his specialty like no other. Protection of Muse offers a strong Arts boost for the entire party and his NP grants respectable debuffs if a bit unreliable. His new skill, A Little Night Music, produces so many stars that it puts Intuition and its clones to shame. While you have to be a bit mindful how you use him, Mozart offers so much burst potential for a team that can use his talents. Fuma Kotaro is another excellent Support Servant combining many different niches. His Crit star generation is 2nd only to Jack the Ripper who has the highest one in the game. Between that and his Ninjutsu skill Kotaro can provide a substantial amount of stars and survivability to a party at the same time. On top of that Paranoia practically deletes any kind of resistance against debuffs which means effects like Stun or Charm are almost guaranteed to work. His NP is pretty weak but it makes up for it with its high hit count, giving him another tool to generate stars for the team. Lu Bu is often dubbed as discount Heracles and rightfully so (that's a huge compliment btw.). He has the highest attack of any 3* Servant and features 3 Buster cards alongside a ST Buster NP that can reach outrageous values. His Valor skill further increases his impressive offensive, meaning Lu Bu will be able to dish out massive amount of damage and tear apart even the most durable Servants. However, he is quite frail and his defense buff is lackluster compared to an Evade or even Guts skill, meaning he needs some support for prolonged battles. Asterios is an unique case. His NP doesn't deal any damage but instead provides hefty debuffs on enemies which lasts double the time than most effects in the game. If this is exploited he can make the enemy deal zero damage permanently. His skill are solid, with Natural Demon providing him some sustainability he needs as a Berserker and Monstrous Strength is a solid Atk boost. Labrys of the Abyss allows him to deal significant damage with his Buster Brave Chains, especially if he crits with his cards. But Asterios requires Grails to do all of this. His low stats makes it hard for him to perform reliably without them as even a single crit might spell death for him. If you don't mind spending your Grails (especially if you're not interested in reaching lvl. 100 with your Servants), he stands out among his peers to receive them. B: - Fergus Mac Roich - Gilgamesh (Kid Gil) - Tawara Touta - Arash - Hektor - Medusa - Alexander - Edward Teach - William Shakespeare - Jing Ke - Hassan of the Hundred Personas - Hassan of Serenity - Hassan of the Cursed Arm - Sasaki Kojiro - Kiyohime - Eric Bloodaxe - Spartacus Spoiler Servants from B-Tier are solid but they aren't performing well enough to be chosen for harder content. Instead most of this tier excels at farming, being able to clear out waves quite efficiently. This is still an important utility as most fights have several waves of mobs to clear before you face the real challenge.Not to mention efficient farming Servants will preserve your sanity in the long run. Fergus is a Saber that copied Lu Bu and learned a thing or two about survival. Compared to him he trades damage for better durability, having Mind's Eye to dodge NPs and lacking the Berserker class traits, taking regular damage from most sources. While he performs quite decently he pales in comparision to Caesar and Bedivere who can not only provide some support to the team but also have ST NPs to deal way more damage against tougher enemies. He doesn't have any outstanding traits as his entire kit is pretty basic. Kid Gil has some solid skills to his disposal, including Charisma at its highest level. This gives him some value as offensive Support but he further backs it up with solid base stats. The only downside to him is his AoE NP which doesn't deal a lot of damage and the side effects are too mediocre to compensate that flaw. That makes him pretty mediocre overall. Tawara Touta is weird. Based on his skills alone one might think he would be an excellent Archer but his poor stats and NP hold him back quite a bit. Especially the latter is disappointing, giving him only bonus damage against enemies with the Demon trait and while some of the tougher mobs can have that trait it isn't exactly the best effect on a NP. He is serviceable but compared to the other Archers he is not amazing. Arash is known for his role as a suicide bomber (I mean no offense btw.). You use his NP, he takes his enemies with him. Simple. While that may sound like that you have to fight with 5 Servants instead of 6 this makes him universally useable in any team that wants to have a quick way to bring down a wave of mobs and being a 1* Servant makes him incredibly cheap cost-wise. However, don't expect him to do anything outside of that as he is very lacking in everything else. Hektor has a solid skill set and a rare AoE NP among the Lancers that can apply a sizeable defense debuff on top of being able to ignore defense buffs. This makes him a good choice if you're facing multiple Archers. Proof of Friendship can be used as a failsafe with its NP drain and Stun chance, though it is a bit unreliable. Aside from that Hector is rather unimpressive. Medusa and Alexander have AoE NPs that allows them to clear a Caster wave with relatively ease, making them very useful Servants for farming (especially for the daily Treasure Vault quests). Medusa is more suited for farming since she can build up her NP gauge faster while Alexander has several party-wide buffs with Charisma and Omen of the Conqueror. Blackbeard might seem underwhelming when Medusa and Alexander exist but he has several buffs to offset his lack of damage. Despite this he is really not great as he is still a 2* Servant, meaning he has low stats. The famous playwright Shakespeare is a welcome sight for any Berserker or other Buster-oriented Servant. Between his sizeable party-wide Buster buff and targetable NP battery skill he can provide good Support to a Buster team and even live to tell the tale thanks to Self-Preservation. However, his low stats and atrocious NP hold him back, so he is only useful for that specific niche. Jing Ke has good offensive stats for an Assassin and a ST NP, which she can boost with Insolent. Among the 3* or lower Assassins she has the highest NP damage output. However she suffers from low hit counts which makes her star generation rather average and compared to her fellow Assassins she is entirely selfish, leaving not many stars for your other team members to use. Hundred Personas has very solid skills, giving him surprisingly good star generation despite having an Arts focus. The problem is that his Atk is quite low and his only damage buff is chance-based, making his overall damage output inconsistent compared to his peers. He is still serviceable if you need an Assassin for your Arts team. Serenity is similar to Hundred Personas that she is Arts-based. Compared to him she focuses a bit more on team support, having an NP drain and Throwing Daggers to produce additional stars. Her NP has several effects that can reliably stick on an enemy thanks to her 3rd skill. Besides that she shares the same problem of having lackluster stats. Her damage output is quite a bit lower and her focus on Instant Death makes her unreliable. Hassan of the Cursed Arm was dubbed as the king of Crit Star generation before the release of Fuma Kotaro. Similar to Cu Hassan has a broken Evade skill in form of "Protection from Winds", giving him great sustain and bolsters his Crit star generation to a level where only few can hope to compete with him. The downside of using CA Hassan is his low Atk and mediocre NP, making him unsuitable as your primary damage dealer compared to Jing Ke or his other counterparts. While Sasaki Kojiro lacks the ability to generate a lot of stars with his regular attacks his NP and Vitrify provide huge amounts of them at once, meaning you are less reliant on his subpar cards. He is no slouch as a fighter as well, possessing an incredible skillset for that purpose though he is held back by his low stats as a 1* Servant, requiring Grails to fully realize his role as a damage dealer. Compared to Asterios this is a less appealing option due to the lower class multiplier, innate to Assassins. Kiyohime is a strange Berserker because she forsakes her Atk stat for more HP. Needless to say this is not a good trade for someone in her class. Nonetheless her NP deals a good amount of damage with her new 3rd skill and even has a chance to stun the entire enemy party. Thanks to Morph and aforementiond HP pool she is not as frail as other Berserkers and her "Stalking" skill can be used to soften up tougher targets but one should be mindful of the demerit. In a similar vein Eric has some uses as a debuffer thanks to Support Spell which applies a massive defense debuff without repercussions, coupled with a small Atk debuff. However, his low stats hold him back and his NP is quite literally suicidal which doesn't bode well for his overall performance in harder and longer fights. Still, he is a decent choice for farming and has at least some uses as a debuffer. Spartacus is one of the best choices for a cheap farming Servant. While he is a 1* Servant with terribly distributed stats he compensates his weakness with a sizeable Buster boost from his EX Rank Madness Enhancement and 3rd skill. He also has a NP charge skill that allows him to bypass the common Berserker problem of having bad NP gain. Aside from that his entire kit is focused in keeping him alive with healing though you shouldn't rely on it alone for survival. C: - Gilles de Rais (Saber) - Romulus - Diarmuid Ua Duibhne - Boudica - Cu Chulainn (Caster) - Mephistopheles - Charles Babbage - Paracelsus von Hohenheim - Henry Jekyll & Hyde - Charles-Henri Sanson - Mata Hari - Darius III - Caligula Spoiler C-Tier inhabits Servants that are rather underwhelming. If you're comtemplating about those you should probably look elsewhere in the higher tiers. Some of them have redeeming qualities but most of the time it doesn't outweight their negatives. Gilles de Rais doesn't make any sense. His NP is detrimental to use because it provides a long lasting defense debuff that will get him killed in a fight. Yet he has two skills that increase his NP damage despite being unable to deal any damage. He is only saved by the fact that his Strengthening gives him a virtually permanent boost to his Buster cards, allowing him to deal some hefty damage if he decides to use his NP. But still, every other Saber is a better and more safe choice than him. Romulus is unimpressive and mostly outclassed by the other 3* Lancers. While Imperial Privilege is a nice skill to have it is unreliable and aside from that his damage output is too mediocre. In terms of AoE NP Hektor will always perform better. The founder of Roman civilization has no noticeable niche for himself and that is quite sad to say. Diarmuid faces a similar problem. He pales in comparision to other ST Lancers. Unless you like the Fate/Zero Lancer you shouldn't use him since his base stats are lacking and. his skills are terrible. Debuffing only female enemies is meaningless if it only lasts a single turn and his low hit counts make the star generation buff meaningless. He has a buff removal on his ST NP which can be situationally useful but it doesn't save him and unlike others with that niche he has trouble to use it frequently. Boudica is plagued by bad stats and only provides defensive buffs with her NP which just isn't good enough for a Support-oriented Servant. Her 1st skill might not exist due its narrow scope and as a Rider she will take away stars from the team which contradicts her supportive role. Caster Cu has Protection from Arrows which he shares with his Lancer counterparts. However, his AoE NP is very weak and he has no in-built way to boost his damage output. It doesn't help that he is story-locked meaning it is not possible to raise his NP levels without spending currency. Cu is a durable Caster but that's it. He doesn't do anything else, making him a lackluster Servant overall. Mephisto has not only really bad stats but a disappointing NP as well. He doesn't know what he wants to be and without a clear focus there is little reason to use him. His debuff seal has some uses against specific bosses but it doesn't justify fielding him over another Servant. Babbage fails utterly in his role as an offensive Caster due to his atrocious stats. He has the worst Atk among all 3* Servants and having an AoE NP on top of that makes him quite awful as the main damage dealer. His only saving grace are his skills that boost his damage output to somewhat acceptable levels. Because of that he can be useful against multiple Assassins but you should not expect him to do much else. Paracelsus has some Support utility with his party-wide Arts buff and targetable Guts skill but he is held back by his lower-than-normal multipler on his NP. Even worse his NP is AoE-based and he has some trouble to reliably clear out Assassins waves. It doesn't help either that all of his skills have very long cooldowns which hampers his usefulness quite a bit. Mata Hari and Sanson can excel in very specific situations, having skills tailored to their respective niches. Outside of that they are not good at all, performing poorly as Assassins and their low stats hold them back even further. Jekyll can't utilize his full potential due to his gimmick. This gimmick of his robs him his NP and his deck prohibits him from performing Buster Brave Chains, limiting his overall damage output. Add to the fact that his Crit damage is wasted on his Berserker form thanks to their low innate star weight he doesn't perform well enough to compensate his lack of NP and his Assassin form being utterly useless. Darius has nothing special about him besides his NP. Being a Berserker his deck and stats do not match up with his class, which is a shame since his NP provides good debuffs with respectable numbers. He is the definition of mediocrity among the Berserkers and can't really distinguish himself from the others that offer more than him. Caligula offers a lot of damage potential but ultimately is too unreliable to use. All of his skills give him a massive damage buff but Imperial Privilege is always a gamble without the use of Ozymandias and Sadist gives him a not neglible Defense debuff which can prove to be fatal for him. His NP might as well be non-existent as the effects on it are useless. D: - Musashibou Benkei - Geronimo - The Phantom of the Opera Let's keep it simple. Don't bother with these. They are the worst of the worst and no amount of effort will make them salvageable. Edited September 16, 2018 by The Priest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 2 hours ago, The Priest said: @Sire Do you mind changing my entry again? Sorry for being a bother. I'm not swayed by 'plot'. Yeaaaah, about that; takes a while to get here. October 2017 in JP to be exact. Before that her NP isn't very good. That being said Nightingale is by no means bad. From an objective standpoint she is one of the better picks-up compared to real letdowns like Drake or Medb. Might even be better than Vlad since she is a more complete package. It's just that I can't stand her character and art. Time to save for class gacha and hopefully they added Bedivere on it. Otherwise it's going to be disappointing though that frees up tickets for Karna and dozens of Rare Prisms. well Drake wouldn't be the absolute worst since she'd be good for farming! and yeah, nightingale's art is weird. 5 hours ago, eclipse said: I'm almost done with Camelot. Hide contents I ship Mash and Bedivere. Someone talk some sense into me, please. Spoiler Poor Galahad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingle Jangle Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 For my rolll on the guaranteed banner I got np2 Rama and Tesla. Decent stuff Quote and for a ticket for the Da Vinci banner I got Saberlot, neato Quote Also, how do Rama and Saberlot compare to each other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QKumber Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 6 hours ago, The Priest said: Tawara Touta B At least his bonus trait is common enough to make him useable. Plus his skillset offsets him bad bases good enough to earn him a spot in B. while I agree with this, I just think the availability (is that a word?) of good/better archers, diminishes Tawara value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Rama murders certain things, IIRC (demonic, maybe?). But I don't have him. Instead, I have Lancelot. Lancelot's skills make him a GBA Swordmaster thanks to crit star generation/gathering/crit strength up, but he needs help with that (because one Quick card). Once Mozart gets his strengthening, he'll be Lancelot's BFF - Arts buff means that his NP will hit even harder, and those extra crit stars should be self-explanatory. IMO I'd put Tamamo as the last member, so that everyone can skill spam faster. Waver will also work, but I'd rather have Tamamo's utility NP than Waver's hard debuff one. Finished Camelot. My thoughts: Spoiler IMO it's about on par with Orleans, in terms of characters. Sherlock was random, though. Instead of everyone else disappearing, WE disappeared, and that was pretty funny. Glad to have Da Vinci back. Gameplay-wise, those gimmicks sucked the first time around. Once I'd memorized them, they weren't so bad (though Gawain can bite me, using double Artemis made me feel dirty). In terms of effectiveness, Gawain's was irritating, Mordred's was balanced out by relatively low damage (thank goodness), Tristain's made no sense, and Lancelot got his ass kicked by a certain OP Avenger (and before anyone says "Dantes", I used him against the first Demon God Pillar, and credit my survival to him). Egypt was arguably worse - Rider/Caster in the same battle, three times, isn't fun in the least. Also assassin spam was awful, due to my Caster pool being extremely limited. MVP of this singularity is Kintoki, for being the clean-up guy. First wave's job was to soften the enemy, then Kintoki shows up and insta-NPs something. Runner-ups are Mash for dying in place of someone else, and. . .Koujirou for giving Ozy the finger repeatedly. Since Cu doesn't have advantage against Riders, I put Nightless Rose on Koujirou and had him do something similar. Beasts Under the Moon saw some serious work here, and it saved Tesla during one of the Mordred battles. Ended that battle with 500 HP on Tesla, after using his NP twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jingle Jangle said: For my rolll on the guaranteed banner I got np2 Rama and Tesla. Decent stuff and for a ticket for the Da Vinci banner I got Saberlot, neato Also, how do Rama and Saberlot compare to each other? Rama: Have a mediocre defensive skill - Heal paired with 3 turn Guts, but its a defensive skill regardless Charisma buff 1 Turn 100% Crit buff on standard value but with 4 CD NP hits demonic and magical which is like 2 servant and some mobs worse card set - basically the old 1:1 Quick vs Arts card set Basically Rama is Anne and Bonnie, but just done better in every way possible, largely because that kind of design works better on Buster. You NEED to supply him with stars. You do a BIG BURST every 4 turns and call it a day creating a constant offense. The problem with Rama otoh, is his mediocre NP gen(the NP gen is dead average, but the new 3:2 card set up is actually a decent jump on NP gen), which downgrades how powerful he is. This is because, one of the biggest draw of Buster NP is that Buster NP gives you Buster bonus WITHOUT wasting the Buster Card. Rama's lack of free access to this is a very big downside. Another big problem for Rama is: skill synching and his damage isn't as impressive as it seems While a crit skill that is alvailable every 4 turns is amazing, that means every 4 turns you are dishing out unoptimal and unbuffed damage - most skills have 5-6 turn CD at 3 turn duration, while Rama have 4 turn CD skill. Rama relies on Warrior Blessing, so this is fairly notable For damage 100% crit damage buff looks amazing, but when you remember a standard crit servant could have 75% Cri already, adding 100 isn't much better than adding 50 Rama's NP damage is mediocre, so it largely serves as a means to give you a Buster Card to start a chain for massive damage But theres no denying that Rama is able to just blow up things really well. If, for example DW buffed Rama with Lancelot's Knight of the Lake, it could significantly improve Rama since it covers all of his flaws. Lancelot: Have a 30% battery that produces 20 Stars Have a skill that FLAWLESSLY redirect stars Lancelot, for 2 years have by far the highest crit absorb in the game at 6100 3 Turn 50% Crit buff that produces 15 Stars on demand NP have pre-casted Arts Buff which basically means it will always deal near-top damage One of the most versatile card set in the game - its the new standard 3:2 but he comes with a 4 hit Buster which could comes in handy with some synergy Ever imagine how nice it is if your critical based servant could summon 2030 and Golden Carp out of thin air? Thats Saberlot If Rama focuses on making his crit hits as hard as possible, Lancelot is all about spamming the hell out of critical hits. No servant in the game is better than he is at enabling Crits since he have literally everything - he have Instinct to kickstart a critical strikes, and puts him closer to NP. He have eternal arms mastery to force it so that he WILL crit. Knight of Owner makes his crit hits hard, and makes sure that he can crit for the next 3-4 turns. He would just crit all day, fill NP fast, and then turns it into NP which in turn makes his next NP comes by faster. Like Berserker Lancelot all of his skills are comically broken - Knight of the Lake does 2 things at once. Eternal Arms Mastery have a ridiculous numbers to the point that he would get 100%/100% with 20 Stars even if his teammate is 2 Rider. Knight of Owner literally activates instinct for 3 turns while increasing damage. Alondite overload casts 30% Arts buff regardless, so his NP basically always have Mana Burst tied to it Lancelot's weakness is his lack of defensive skills of any form, and his NP damage is unimpressive without help since he have no interlude as an SR, but everything else about him basically made him explode when the right support is applied. 47 minutes ago, eclipse said: Rama murders certain things, IIRC (demonic, maybe?). But I don't have him. Instead, I have Lancelot. Lancelot's skills make him a GBA Swordmaster thanks to crit star generation/gathering/crit strength up, but he needs help with that (because one Quick card). Once Mozart gets his strengthening, he'll be Lancelot's BFF - Arts buff means that his NP will hit even harder, and those extra crit stars should be self-explanatory. IMO I'd put Tamamo as the last member, so that everyone can skill spam faster. Waver will also work, but I'd rather have Tamamo's utility NP than Waver's hard debuff one. Finished Camelot. My thoughts: Reveal hidden contents IMO it's about on par with Orleans, in terms of characters. Sherlock was random, though. Instead of everyone else disappearing, WE disappeared, and that was pretty funny. Glad to have Da Vinci back. Gameplay-wise, those gimmicks sucked the first time around. Once I'd memorized them, they weren't so bad (though Gawain can bite me, using double Artemis made me feel dirty). In terms of effectiveness, Gawain's was irritating, Mordred's was balanced out by relatively low damage (thank goodness), Tristain's made no sense, and Lancelot got his ass kicked by a certain OP Avenger (and before anyone says "Dantes", I used him against the first Demon God Pillar, and credit my survival to him). Egypt was arguably worse - Rider/Caster in the same battle, three times, isn't fun in the least. Also assassin spam was awful, due to my Caster pool being extremely limited. MVP of this singularity is Kintoki, for being the clean-up guy. First wave's job was to soften the enemy, then Kintoki shows up and insta-NPs something. Runner-ups are Mash for dying in place of someone else, and. . .Koujirou for giving Ozy the finger repeatedly. Since Cu doesn't have advantage against Riders, I put Nightless Rose on Koujirou and had him do something similar. Beasts Under the Moon saw some serious work here, and it saved Tesla during one of the Mordred battles. Ended that battle with 500 HP on Tesla, after using his NP twice. Lancelot actually requires like 0 Help when maxed. Knight of the Lake produces 20 Stars. Knight of Owner produces 15 Stars. Even without 2030 he would consistently crits like it was nothing. For skill based critical enable, he's only begind Merlin and just about ties with Kiritsugu. He's closer to Thracia 776 Pursuit Crit abuser I mean like, most other servant uses 2 copy of 2030 to crit consistently. Lancelot is literally a walking pair of 2030 AND on demand Golden Carp Edited July 8, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) Didn't roll on guaranteed. I feel like if I did I'd just get a NP2 Altera, and not Artoria/Mordred, basically a waste of $30. I don't like Altera at all, only reason I keep her around is a lack of Sabers. I might have been willing if the banner had limited SSR (want Gil) or if there was a SR version (Astolfo, Rama, Ibaraki), but nope. Edited July 8, 2018 by Glaceon Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said: Lancelot actually requires like 0 Help when maxed. Knight of the Lake produces 20 Stars. Knight of Owner produces 15 Stars. Even without 2030 he would consistently crits like it was nothing. Lancelot is unironically the single best critical stars support in the game(yes, i am suggesting that Lancelot is a WAY better crit enabler than Jack) behind just Merlin and about tied with Kiritsugu. He's closer to Thracia 776 Pursuit Crit abuser When running crit-heavy servants, 15 isn't enough. I usually aim for 35 PER TURN, not 35 once every six turns. At least with Mozart, it's big numbers twice every six turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 32 minutes ago, eclipse said: When running crit-heavy servants, 15 isn't enough. I usually aim for 35 PER TURN, not 35 once every six turns. At least with Mozart, it's big numbers twice every six turns. 15 is enough. Theres only 5 card per round which really averages around 2 card per set. Throw in 1 copy of 4 stars CE and you basically round it out, and this can be backed by using cards(contrary to popular belief you don't start every turn with 0 stars. Also Quick 3 is good). Lancelot's Quick 3 alone would produce 6 stars while average servant produces 4 stars. Thats enough to back up his active period The magic number of critical hits is 25, because its 200% stars used for NP-Card-Card critical set up. with 5 to deal with variants. But the thing is its impossible to have any variance with Saber Lancelot to begin with. You need to do something mind blowingly stupid to make variance happen - something like "use Saber Lancelot with Nobunaga who equipped MLB Bazzet, and activating Demon King when you want to crit with Saberlot" kind of stupid After this just knowing how to press his button is enough - if you pull 2 card, activate 1, 2, 3 and then crit. Next turn the pull would be 1 and 2 so EAM covers it nicely. If you don't pull any, that means one of the phase would have 3-4 Saberlot cards. Pre-cast KoO and then press EAM with Knight of the Lake next turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sire Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Out of curiosity, how does Medea compare to Nitocris when spamming their NPs? I feel like Nito may be better overall (due to AoE and stats), but Medea allows for more spam since her NP charge is greater and her NP effect adds NP at base. I don't have a Nito, but I wonder if she could be swapped in instead of using Medea in an Arts NP Team. * * * * * With the 1/2 AP Dailies, I'm currently working on the following servants... Saber- Artoria Lily, 77/80: My main 4* Saber, used for her AoE NP. If I ever get a Saber Alter, she will replace Saber Lily.- Bedivere, 1/30: After Camelot, I'm working on this guy. Dude deserves the EXP. Archer- Robin Hood, 65/70: I put him on the backburner to raise other Servants, but it is time to finally level him completely. - Arash, 60/60?: I am sincerely considering tossing a grail his way to make him 70. After Camelot, Arash definitely rose up the ranks for me. The extra 800 attack doesn't hurt either.- EMIYA, 40/50: My free 4* Servant from that thing a while back, I'm trying to level up EMIYA since he is used in a lot of events. I also love his character as well. Lancer- Cu FSN, 60/70: The project that never ends, but hopefully with the 1/2 AP I'll finally be able to get him up to 70. He'll end up replacing Heracles as my backline once Herc reaches Bond 10! (Just ~800 battles to go, if we estimate 500 BP a battle...)- Cu Prototype, 50/60: Another Cu that I want to level. At some point I want to run the Cu Chu train for laughs, but I need to level up all of them first (and maybe get Cu Alter). Rider- Kintoki Rider, 50/60: I never managed to raise him during the event as I was busy with other Servants, but I hear he is rather ridiculous. I could use a single-target Rider anyway, so he's an important man to raise. Caster- Irisviel, 63/70: She's been a Servant I've been wanting to level, but I haven't had time due to all the events. Despite this, she was fielded for Camelot due to the abundance of assassins.- Nursery Rhyme, 1/40: She is an AoE Caster which is something I desperately need since I was a fool back when I first started FGO back in October and didn't bother with Halloween Elisabeth (It doesn't help I'm not a big fan of Elisabeth). I'm honestly indifferent to Nursery Rhyme as well, but I need an AoE Caster since Cu Caster and Shakespeare really do not fit the bill. Assassin - Kerry, 46/50: I will continue to raise Kiritsugu because he was awesome in Fate/Zero. I do have Shiki and she is probably better since she is NP 5 and Kerry is NP 1, but still!- Carmilla, 40/50: A good Assassin that may see usage as a budget Jack since MHX has a niche use. Berserker- Nightingale, 1/50: My latest acquisition and obtained from the 5* Gacha, Nightingale will be raised. She also came at a good time since my Berserker embers are mostly being used on filler projects.- Heracles, 80/80?: I am thinking about grailing Herc, especially since I will be getting Bond 10 with him some time in the future (hopefully before the finale of Part One). At the moment though, there are other grail options that are tempting me (Nobu to 90 because she is my crit servant and already 10/10/10 NP5. Arash to 70 because he is Arash and the 800 attack is nice.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Oh yeah 1/2 AP off week FML haven't even finished camelot for the free bedivere. (I'll just stash the cards for the end of the week then.) Sabers to level Fergus Chevalier Bedivere (eventually) Lancers Proto Cu Hector Maybe Romulus? Idk Archers Ugh fuck idk I think Nobunaga needs some more exp to hit level 80. Emiya of course I think Ko Gil isn't max level, but idk. Riders Ozymandias (Priority #1) Rider Kintoki (#2) (These two divine riders are going to be taking a lot of the rider gems farmed this week lol.) Alexander Idk who else goes here since every other rider I have is max level aside from Boudic Casters Sanzang Caster Liz Irisveil? Might as well get her prepped for the future Medea Lily? I might as well. Shakespeare Mozart Paracelsus Assassins Stheno (Welp) Hundred Faces Jing Ke Fuuma God why didn't serenity come. Damnitall. Berserkers Tamacat Kiyohime Spartacus Fuck idk who's a better farmer between Darius and Bloodaxe. Maybe I'll just grail Asterios to 90 instead for the investment. Everyone wants skill levels too. Let's not forget about finishing camelot, but hey whatever. I'm still getting my A team pimped out. I can feasibly say that I have every niche in my roster filled out. STNP and AoE NP servants for every class. Support List is looking good for getting more FP slaves Farming Team is pretty much set and done with. I"m close to making my oppai waifu support list. All I need now is an oppai archer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Half AP? Hmm. . . Saber - Lancelot/Nero/d'Eon - Need to cap off all three, though Lancelot's gonna be stuck for a while because of his ascension materials. In d'Eon's case, that's another grail. Lancer - Li Shuwen/Liz - The latter just needs some levels, the former needs my heart. If I somehow get both of them up to speed, throw Cu in there, too. Archer - Orion/Emiya - Orion's the big one, but Emiya's the event guy. If I somehow get both of these maxed, Billy the Kid is next. Rider - Kintoki/Astolfo - Both of these guys should hit max level. I hope. I could use some variety. Anne/Mary are if I have extras (highly improbable, though) Caster - Iri/Mozart - Lancelot is going to shine, because I said so. If I somehow have any extras, they get funneled into Hans (who I'll grail once JUST FOR THIS). Assassin - Shuten/Kerry/Shiki/Koujirou (and I am forgetting someone) - That's why I was a little hesitant when I drew Shuten. I'm drowning in Assassins! Berserker - Tamamo/Ibaraki - The former's almost capped, the latter needs all the love she can get! Other - Mash gets all my generic Blazes until further notice. If I summon Angry Dessert, he'll have to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) It's too bad Hans needs a couple of grails to shine (on himself and the servants he's supporting, though the second part is more or less guaranteed). 80% on his def buff means that his NP is a lot more like a sustain NP than a durability NP, so everyone needs just a tad more raw bulk to weather the the rare times his def buff misses right before an enemy NP lands. Innocent monster reducing defense also doesn't help, although at least it's fairly low at 14% demerit. I suppose you could also just dump some hp CEs on your servants, though. (2030 pairs well with Hans' crit buff and gives all hp, but 2030 is basically the Merlin of CEs.) Edit: @Sire I would say Nito is strictly better. Their NPs have the same damage multiplier, but Nito's is AoE, and, despite the fact that Medea's refunds some NP... if you're using their NPs outside their Divine Words, you're using their cards, and Nito's cards do more damage. Practically speaking their Divine Words are identical since both reach 100% without issue, and cds are the same. This is just in terms of their NPs, though. They obviously have a different set of support skills. Double Edit: Note, this is in the case that their NP levels are the same, which is pretty rare, since Nito's 4* vs. Medea's 3*. Edited July 8, 2018 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmokestack Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 11 hours ago, The Priest said: Oh, start of a new page and we got Strengthening Part 4. How convenient. You know what that means. Reveal hidden contents Changes from previous list: Mozart B -> A Oh, boy, it's happening. Besides having a pretty massive Arts booster on a 5-turn cooldown he gets an 'Ultra Instinct' skill. What does it do? It produces 50 stars every 6 turns. Say hello to the best budget Arts support you can get. Asterios B -> A I teased this one a while ago and I will go through with it. If the grails are used on him he is one of the best low-rarity Servants in the game and considering the increase of performance isn't as noticeable compared to other 2* and lower Servants, he is arguably the best target. That being said I will mention that he will significantly perform worse if one does not spend these grails on him. Bedivere A As I said before his NP interlude comes out he is just A and I have to keep in mind that he is story-locked. That's about it really. Combined with his high ST damage, decent NP gain and overall solid base stats he is the best Saber in terms of pure damage and one of the best free Servants in the game. Tawara Touta B At least his bonus trait is common enough to make him useable. His skillset offsets his bad bases good enough to earn him a spot in B. Probably worst Archer but if you're in that spot with that skillset, it tells you how absurd your competition is. Hassan of Serenity B Honestly she doesn't seem very good but at least her NP is useable and the effects have a decent chance to stick by using her 3rd skill. Worse than HFH overall but not by much, so B should be good enough for her. ---------- S: - Mash Kyrielight - Robin Hood - Cu Chulainn (Stay Night) - Medea - Hans Christian Andersen Reveal hidden contents These Servants are the best of their kind. All of them can fit in any team and will bring great results. Mash is the only Servant in the game that sports 0 cost and comes with several supportive skills that tremendously bolster the team's survivalability. Having a combination of Taunt and targetable Invincibility makes your entire party immune against damage for an entire turn and even against AoE NPs she can use her 1st skill to prevent most of the damage. On top of that her NP provides both a sizeable Def and an Atk buff. She is easily the best free Servant in the game and if you have a spot open there is no reason not to bring her along. Robin Hood pretty much functions as a 1-time nuke outside of dedicated Arts Team and cannot contribute much otherwise due to his bad stat distribution and mediocre skills. However his NP damage is absurdly high and he is borderline broken in a dedicated team, making him the best general boss killer in the 3* department. Cu Chulainn excels in fixing unpleasant situations; meaning battles where he stands alone as the last man. He is nigh indestrucible thanks to his Protection from Arrows skill and even has Battle Continuation to keep him covered if it runs out or gets removed. Disengange rounds out his kit with a debuff removal on a short cooldown so he is covered on that front, too. His NP deals decent damage with a defense debuff, complementing Cu's role very nicely. Medea is an unique Servant since she is able to nullify buffs with her ST NP which she can spam with ease. That makes her incredible useful for fights in which Servants tend to spam buffs which become more common later on. While her NP damage output is much lower the fact that she can use it in quick succession more than makes up for it and can give her devastating amount of damage if coupled with buffs. On top of that her Teachings of Circe allows her to remove Debuffs from her team and give anyone a sizeable buff to their NP generation, expanding her role with a supportive trait. Hans takes the title of best budget support. Thanks to Rapid Divine Words he can use his NP right from the bat to buff the entire team which is a great boon for any team. There is a random factor attached to it and his low stats don't really help his longevity in combat but Hans has no problem to spam his NP several times before he crosses that line. A: - Gaius Julius Caesar - Bedivere - Euryale - David - Billy the Kid - Cu Chulainn (Prototype) - Leonidas - Ushiwakamaru - Georgios - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Fuma Kotaro - Lu Bu - Asterios(*) Reveal hidden contents This tier includes mostly Servants that are either very good in specific compositions, can provide good support or have defined roles that can be quite essential for harder content. They do have some drawbacks but they are still reliable picks for a team and it is recommend to have them at least max. Ascension. Caesar possesses solid stats, features several offensive party buffs and his NP is ST, meaning he will deal a good amount of damage against bosses and high HP targets. He doesn't have any particular weakness aside from lacking a skill for survival which doesn't hamper his utility much. Always a solid choice, be it for raw damage or Support. Bedivere is the strongest 3* Saber people have access to. He has very strong base stats and a powerful NP that deals serious amount of damage. While his skills do not seem impressive they support his NP and Oath of Protection can be a very useful tool if used in conjunction with other defense buffs. Keep in mind that he is story-locked so unless you spent SQ on his rate-ups his damage output is limited. David is a Support-oriented Servant having Charisma and the highly-valued Harp of Healing which grants the entire party a 1-time Evade. This alone elevates him to a strong Servant but there is more. He has the highest base Atk among the 3* or lower Archers and features a ST NP that can apply the situational skill seal on his opponent. However his deck doesn't match with his NP type, resulting in a mismatched deck that limits his maximum damage output a bit. Still David is a very strong Servant, making him a good pick against enemies with AoE NPs, be it just for being a failsafe in conjuction with the Battlesuit. Euryale is the prime male Servant counter who are ever so often present in the game. She deals tons of damage against male enemies with her NP and will trivialize a lot of the toughest boss fights in the game, which earns her place in the A-Tier. Even outside of her niche her skills give her enough power to be able to contribute but do not expect peak performance since a lot of her power comes from her multiple Charms and bonus damage against males. Billy the Kid is the master of crits. He has the highest crit multiplier in the game, allowing him to deal devastating amount of damage. If that doesn't do the job he can fire off his ST NP which he is able to use quite frequently thanks to Quick Draw and his Np gain from crits. The only problem is that his buffs only last a single turn, so he is pretty average until he can use his skills again. Nonetheless he is quite unique and while he requires a bit of a setup he will perform very well if he is given that. Proto Cu functions similarly to his original counterpart, trading some of the legendary endurance for the ability to kill Beast-type enemies like the dreaded Chimeras. It makes him more situational but he is still a solid Lancer even outside of that role and can perform just as well as the original Cu in your last team spot. Leonidas and Georgios are great tanks. Both have skills that grants them Taunt and Guts which are essential for that kind of role. The difference between them lies within their deck and the way how they incorporate the Taunt effect to their kit.Georgios is more suited for general use since he has his Taunt right away for 3 turns, coupled with a strong defense buff and can heal himself. His NP is unfortunately worthless because his Atk is almost non-existent and Def buff is too small for lasting a single turn.Leonidas' Taunt skill lasts only 1 turn but provides a buff to his NP generation which in turn fuels his NP that grants him Taunt as well. Having it on a NP means that Leonidas is potentially able to stack the defense buffs on it which means he could become impervious to damage. On top of that he generates stars with it and coupled with his party-wide Buster buff he is a welcome sight for Buster teams. Ushiwakamaru is similar to Caesar having multiple party-wide buffs in her disposal. What sets her apart from him is her stupidly high NP multiplier, allowing her to outright destroy Casters or at least deal massive damage against anything else. She is one of the most well-rounded Servants in the game, having a good balance of offense, Support and survivability. Mozart has only a single role; be an Arts support. His stats are bad, his NP doesn't do any damage and Artistic Aesthetic might be the worst skill of all time. Yet he excels in his specialty. Protection of Muse offers a strong Arts boost for the entire party and his NP grants respectable debuffs though like Hans' it is a bit unreliable. His new skill, A Little Night Music, produces so many stars that it puts Intuition to shame. While you have to be a bit mindful how you use him, Mozart offers so much burst potential that it is hard not to have him around. Fuma Kotaro is another excellent Support Servant combining many different niches. His star generation is 2nd only to Jack the Ripper who has the highest one in the game. Between that and his targetable Evade skill, Ninjutsu, Kotaro can provide a substantial amount of stars and survivability to a party at the same time. On top of that his skill Paranoia immensely debuffs enemies' Debuff resistance which means effects like Stun or Charm are almost guaranteed to work, giving him another support niche. His NP is pretty weak but it makes up for it with its very high hit count, giving him another tool to generate stars. Lu Bu is often dubbed as discount Heracles and rightfully so (that's a huge compliment btw.). He has the highest attack of any 3* Servant and features 3 Buster cards alongside a ST Buster NP which he can boost even further with new skill. His Valor skill further increases his impressive offensive, meaning Lu Bu will be able to dish out massive amount of damage. However, he is quite frail and his defense buff is too lackluster compared to an Evade or even Guts skill, meaning he needs some support for prolonged battles. Asterios is a weird case in many ways. His NP doesn't deal any damage and instead provides hefty debuffs on enemies which lasts a good amount of time. If this is exploited he can make the enemy party deal zero damage permanently. His skill are very good, with Natural Demon providing him the sustainability he needs as a Berserker and Monstrous Strength is a solid Atk boost. Labrys of the Abyss allows him to deal significant damage with his Buster Brave Chains, especially if one produced enough stars. But Asterios requires Grails to do all of this. Asterios' low stats makes it hard for him to perform reliably as even a single crit might spell death for him. Without them he performs significantly worse and they are a very limited resource. Still if you don't mind spending your Grails (especially if you're not interested in reaching lvl. 100 with your Servants), he is easily the best choice. B: - Fergus Mac Roich - Gilgamesh (Kid Gil) - Tawara Touta - Arash - Hektor - Medusa - Alexander - Edward Teach - William Shakespeare - Jing Ke - Hassan of the Hundred Personas - Hassan of Serenity - Hassan of the Cursed Arm - Sasaki Kojiro - Kiyohime - Eric Bloodaxe Reveal hidden contents Fergus is a Saber that copied Lu Bu and learned a thing or two about survival. Compared to Lu Bu he trades damage for survival, having Mind's Eye to dodge NPs and lacking the Berserker class traits. While he performs quite decently he pales in comparision to Caesar and Bedivere who can not only provide some support to the team but also have ST NPs to deal way more damage against tougher enemies. Kid Gil has some solid skills to his disposal, including Charisma at its highest level. This gives him some value as offensive Support but he further backs it up with solid damage output and NP generation. The only downside to him is his AoE NP which doesn't deal a lot of damage and the side effects are too mediocre to compensate that flaw. Tawara Touta is weird. Based on his skills alone one might think he would be an excellent Archer but his poor stats and NP hold him back quite a bit. Especially the latter is really, giving him only bonus damage against Demon enemies and while some of the tougher mobs have that trait it isn't exactly the best effect on a NP. He is serviceable but compared to the other Archers he is not amazing. Arash is known for his role as a suicide bomber. You use his NP, he takes his enemies with him. Simple. While that may sound like that you have to fight with 5 Servants instead of 6 this makes him universally useable in any team that wants to have a quick wave clear and being a 1* Servant makes him incredibly cheap. He has incredible AoE damage and will especially shine against multiple Saber Servants who will get destroyed by him. However, don't expect him to do anything outside of that as he is lacking in everything else. Hektor has a solid skill set and a rare AoE NP among the Lancers that can apply a sizeable defense debuff and ignores defense. This makes him a good choice if you're facing multiple Archers. Proof of Friendship can be a panic button with its NP drain and Stun chance, though it is a bit unreliable. Medusa and Alexander have AoE NPs that allows them to clear a Caster wave with relatively ease, making them very useful Servants for farming (especially for the daily Treasure Vault quests). Medusa is more suited for farming since she can build up her NP gauge a bit faster while Alexander serves as Quick support with Charisma and Omen of the Conqueror. Blackbeard can be even better farmer due being Buster-based and featuring several attack buffs to bolster his damage output. He suffers in everything else due to his low stats as a 2* Servant, making him unsuitable for anything outside of that. The famous playwright Shakespeare is a welcome sight for a Berserker. Between his sizeable party-wide Buster buff and targetable NP charge skill he can provide good Support to a Buster team and even live to tell the tale thanks to Self-Preservation However, his low stats and lackluster NP hold him back, so he is only useful for that specific niche. Jing Ke has good offensive stats for an Assassin and even has a ST NP for overall decent damage, which she can boost with Insolent. Among the 3* or lower Assassins she has the highest NP damage output. However she suffers from low hit counts which makes her star generation rather average compared to her fellow Assassins. Hundred Personas has very solid skills, giving him surprisingly good star generation despite being Arts-based. The problem is that his Atk is quite low and his only damage buff is chance-based, making his overall damage output inconsistent compared to his peers. Serenity is similar to Hundred Personas that she is Arts-based. Compared to him she focuses a bit more on team support, having an NP drain and Throwing Daggers to produce stars without using her own weak cards. Besides that she shares the same problem of having lackluster stats. Her damage output is quite a bit lower and she focuses on Instant Death which is very unreliable. Fortunately it has several other debuffs on it with a decent chance to stick with her Silent Dance skill. Hassan of the Cursed Arm was dubbed as the king of Crit Star generation before the release of Fuma Kotaro. Similar to Cu Hassan has a broken Evade skill in form of "Protection from Winds", giving him good sustain and bolsters his Crit star generation to a level where only few can hope to compete with him. The downside of using CA Hassan is his low Atk, making him unsuitable for dealing damage. While Sasaki Kojiro lacks the ability to generate a lot of stars with his regular attacks his NP and Vitrify provide huge amounts of them at once, meaning you are less reliant on his subpar cards. He is no slouch as a fighter as well, possessing a very good skillset for that purpose though he is held back by his low stats as a 1* Servant, requiring Grails to fully realize his role as a damage dealer. Kiyohime is a strange Berserker because she forsakes her Atk stat for more HP. Needless to say this is not a good trade. Nonetheless her NP deals solid damage with her new 3rd skill and even has a chance to stun the entire enemy party. Thanks to Morph and aforementiond HP pool she is not as frail as other Berserkers and her "Stalking" skill can be used to soften up priority targets. In a similar vein Eric has some uses as a debuffer thanks to Support Spell which applies a massive defense debuff without repercussions, coupled with a small Atk debuff. However, his low stats hold him back and his NP is quite literally suicidal which doesn't bode well for his overall performance in harder and longer fights. Still he is a decent choice to deal with multiple enemies as his AoE NP deals good amount of damage. C: - Gilles de Rais (Saber) - Romulus - Diarmuid Ua Duibhne - Boudica - Cu Chulainn (Caster) - Mephistopheles - Charles Babbage - Paracelsus von Hohenheim - Henry Jekyll & Hyde - Charles-Henri Sanson - Mata Hari - Darius III - Caligula - Spartacus Reveal hidden contents Gilles de Rais' kit doesn't make any sense. His NP doesn't deal any damage, in fact it is detrimental to use it at all because it provides a long lasting defense debuff that will get him killed in a fight. Yet he has two skills that support him using his NP which doesn't even deal damage. He is only saved by the fact that his Strengthening gives him a virtually permanent boost to his Buster cards, allowing him to deal some hefty damage. But still, every other Saber is a better choice than him. Romulus is unimpressive and mostly outclassed by the other 3* Lancers. In terms of AoE NPs Hector surpasses him thanks to his NP interlude and Tactics skill, while his strongest buffs is tied to Imperial Privilege which is too unreliable. The founder of Roman civilization has no noticeable niche for himself and that is quite sad to say. Diarmuid pales in comparison with the two Cu Chulainns. Unless you like the Fate/Zero Lancer you shouldn't use him since he lacks both damage or durability compared to other alternatives. His skills are mediocre, only boosting his star generation and debuffing female enemies is meaningless if it only lasts a single turn. He has a buff removal on his ST NP which can be situationally useful but it doesn't save him. Boudica is plagued by bad stats and only provides defensive buffs with her NP which isn't good enough for a Support-oriented Servant. She will eventually get better with her Strengthening Quest though. Caster Cu has Protection from Arrows which he shares with his Lancer counterparts. However, his AoE NP is quite weak and he has no in-built way to boost his damage output. It doesn't help that he is story-locked meaning it is not possible to raise his NP levels without spending Saint Quartz. Overall, Cu is a durable Caster but that's it. He doesn't do anything else, making him a very lackluster Servant. Mephisto has a mismatched deck, a skill set that is all over the place and really bad stats. He doesn't know what he wants to be and that makes him quite lackluster. His debuff seal has some uses against specific bosses but it doesn't justify fielding him over another Servant. Babbage fails utterly in his role as an offensive Caster thanks to his atrocious stats. He has the worst Atk among all 3* Servants and having an AoE NP on top of that makes him quite awful. His only saving grace are his skills that boost his damage output to somewhat acceptable levels. He can be useful against multiple Assassins but you should not expect him to do much else. Paracelsus has some Support utility with his party-wide Arts buff and targetable Guts skill but he is held back by his poor Atk and lower-than-normal multipler on his NP. Even worse his NP is AoE-based and he has some trouble to reliably clear out Assassins waves. It's a shame since he has Rapid Divine Words to spam it. Mata Hari and Sanson can excel in very specific situations, having skills tailored to their respective targets. Outside of that they are not good at all, performing rather poorly as Assassins and their low stats hold them back. Jekyll can't utilize his full potential due to his gimmick. This gimmick of his robs him his NP and his deck prohibits him from performing Buster Brave Chains, limiting his damage output. Add to the fact that his Crit damage is wasted on his Berserker form thanks to their low innate Star weight he really doesn't perform well enough to compensate his lack of NP and his Assassin form being utterly useless. Darius has nothing special about him besides his NP. Being a Berserker his deck and stats do not match up with his class, which is a shame since his NP provides good debuffs with respectable numbers. He is the definition of mediocrity among the Berserkers and can't really distinguish himself from the others that offer more than him. Caligula offers a lot of damage potential but ultimately is too unreliable to use. All of his skills give him a massive damage buff but Imperial Privilege is always a gamble without the use of Ozymandias and Sadist gives him a not neglible Defense debuff which can prove to be fatal for him. His NP might as well be non-existent as the effects on it are useless. Spartacus has the worst Atk of all Berserkers and his displayed Atk is the worst in the game. His actual Atk is not as bad but it is still nothing to write home about. His niche is supposed to be a durable Berserker, having multiple sources of healing in his kit. But with his low stats and taking double damage as a Berserker this doesn't work. He has some uses in daily farming but outside of that Spartacus is a really subpair choice for a Berserker. D: - Musashibou Benkei - Geronimo - The Phantom of the Opera Let's keep it simple. Don't bother with these. They are the worst of the worst and no amount of effort will make them salvageable. I’m thinking Fergus is a C. Outside of just being a worse Lu Bu, he’s a stat stick. Gorilla deck means he is not getting his NP off that often either. Yes, I’m aware that puts him on the same level as Saber Gilles My point about Nightingale stands though. The Atk Down on NP doesn’t make or break her. She’s great now and she’ll be even better later on. 4 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said: Also, how do Rama and Saberlot compare to each other? Rama is a stat stick. Saber Lancelot is a monster. They fill the same niche, but Lancelot is ahead of Rama by leaps and bounds thanks to his sustain and NP spam. Rama is pretty much past his prime now that Rashomon and Onigashima are over unfortunately. He is Merlin friendly but using Merlin is cheating anyway 2 hours ago, Sire said: Out of curiosity, how does Medea compare to Nitocris when spamming their NPs? I feel like Nito may be better overall (due to AoE and stats), but Medea allows for more spam since her NP charge is greater and her NP effect adds NP at base. I don't have a Nito, but I wonder if she could be swapped in instead of using Medea in an Arts NP Team. Nitocris and Medea are suited to different roles. Medea is strictly better for bossing, while Nito expedites farming against trash mobs due to her instant kill gimmick. Nitocris hits like a wet noodle outside of instant kill, so her NP is hardly worth spamming even when significantly buffed. The buff removal, debuff clear, and NP gain that Medea has is much more valuable in difficult content. Nito is notably more bulky than Medea due to her Guts, however. The comparison for Caster point man lies in Sanzou vs Medea, and I think Sanzou is the clear winner. She has significantly more bulk than Medea and is better at keeping the team alive. And even then, buff removal and instant NP are still advantages Medea has over her. 3 hours ago, eclipse said: When running crit-heavy servants, 15 isn't enough. I usually aim for 35 PER TURN, not 35 once every six turns. At least with Mozart, it's big numbers twice every six turns. @JSND Alter Dragon Boner already sperged about Lancelot but you triggered me too so I’m going to say the same thing he did. Lancelot is the most consistent critical servant in the game. He can both produce stars on demand and over time, and ensure that he takes them all for himself. His only flaw is his lack of defensive tools in his kit. You really don’t need anything more than Mash or Tamamo to make sure the crits never stop. Either or both are very common to use on an arts team anyway. 2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said: It's too bad Hans needs a couple of grails to shine (on himself and the servants he's supporting, though the second part is more or less guaranteed). Purely from a gameplay perspective, grailing support casters is not practical. There is nothing in Hans kit that directly improves by grailing him, unlike Asterios for example. You can argue that the increased HP makes him less frail, but grailing just for HP seems like a waste. He is already fairly bulky when factoring in his NP and the supports he’s likely to run with. My laundry list for this week is pretty hefty. I have to level: -Ozymandias -Ibaraki -Shielder -Jack -Bedivere -Fuuma -Nitocris On top of doing all the strengthen quests for this week. I just got Robin Hood’s 3rd earlier today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmokestack Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Since forums are not letting me edit my last post: And as JSND mentioned already, 30+ critical stars is more for critical units with low star weight and/or non-NP brave chains. Lancelot instantly sucks up most stars due to the weight boost on EAM so this issue hardly affects him. For Caster AOE? Nursery Rhyme and Caster Liz. I prefer the former. Alice has an interlude buff and a powerful crit skill in Self-Modification, while Caster Liz is an easy NP5 that can provide stars. Alice has similar perks to Nito (debuff clear and NP battery mainly) while also having Morph for added bulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said: Purely from a gameplay perspective, grailing support casters is not practical. There is nothing in Hans kit that directly improves by grailing him, unlike Asterios for example. You can argue that the increased HP makes him less frail, but grailing just for HP seems like a waste. He is already fairly bulky when factoring in his NP and the supports he’s likely to run with. Dead units don't support, is the problem. (They don't do damage either, but that's a different issue.) Assuming you don't just Jeanne/Merlin through NPs, Hans needs at least enough hp to survive an AoE NP without his own NP buffing him, because otherwise you're taking a 20% chance for him to die every time the enemy NP happens. Although I guess you can treat him like Arash and just dump him after he uses all his skills once, but I'm not sure why you'd do that to one of the better sustain servants in the game. The more hp he has, the less chance Hans dies in the 'worst case' scenarios like getting AoE NPd and then brave chained afterwards. His NP is amazing for sustain because it always gives hp regen and most of the time gives defense to cut down incoming damage, but it's inconsistent in terms of durability, meaning the frailer members of the team would need another source of bulk. (And being 2*, Hans usually is that frailer servant.) This comes from either Servants, CEs, or Grails, and neither Grails nor CEs take up a servant slot. Regarding the Medea vs. Nito thing, you know Medea's NP has the same multiplier as Nito's, right? If they had the same Atk stat and NP level they do the same damage. Of course, Medea usually has the better NP level, but Nito usually has the better Atk stat. Edited July 9, 2018 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Here's the thing with crits - I don't leave them up to chance. If I do, then it means that the situation isn't that serious. To guarantee a full crit Brave chain, that's 30 crit stars. The extra 5 are in case I calculated something wrong. A six-turn CD means that I'm going to miss one Brave chain, short of someone dying. Hence why things like support exist - that way, I get my crits as needed, and I can slap something like Another Ending on him. It's not going to always line up, but it's worked out fairly well so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiki Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, MrSmokestack said: I’m thinking Fergus is a C. Outside of just being a worse Lu Bu, he’s a stat stick. Gorilla deck means he is not getting his NP off that often either. Being a solid stat stick with a good NP is enough for B. Yes, he doesn't have a lot of perks but he has no sore spot in his skills or stats either. He actually hits harder than Bedivere or Caesar with his regular cards if their skills are active. His NP gain isn't that much worse either considering he has almost the same NP gain and hit count as Caesar with the exception of trading a Quick with a Buster. Plus he has an NP interlude behind him and 20% Def debuff is a good side effect to have on an AoE NP. So no, he's not C. Not even close. He is very comparable to the rest of B-Tier. 7 hours ago, QKumber said: while I agree with this, I just think the availability (is that a word?) of good/better archers, diminishes Tawara value. Just because the other Archers are good doesn't mean I should penalize him for that. I mean he is probably worse than Kid Gil but he is still serviceable enough to stay in B. EDIT: Looking at my backlog it says: Bedivere (1/30 -> 40/40): Screw those Proofs of Hero. I think I will have to wait until Summer to get the Medals for his final Ascension. Caesar (60/70): He is part of the Servants that I want to have at max. Ascension despite not being in my planned roster. I regret a bit that I didn't have him ready during Camelot. Ozymandias (1/50 -> 60/60): ... Chains. At least I have 10 of them, so 12 more to go. *internal screaming intensifies' Alexander (60/60): See Caesar, except I don't have the Proof of Heroes for him for max. Ascension. *internal screaming becomes external screaming* Shakespeare (55/65): See Caesar ... again. Mozart (40/40 -> 60/60): He is finally getting that skill, so he was the priority. Emiya Assassin (60/60): He needs to reach 3rd Ascension for his future Interlude. But yet again I don't have the Bones and Dusts to raise him to max. Ascension. *resignation sinks in* Serenity (1/30): Only to 3rd Ascension so I can do her Interlude; whenever that one comes around. Kojiro (80/80 -> 90/90): But of course. Lu Bu (50/50): See Alexander but switch Proofs with even more Bones, Dust and Claws. Stahp. I don't think I will be able to raise him during the Anniversary. Mash (60/70): Not leveling Mash is stupid. Edited July 9, 2018 by The Priest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QKumber Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, The Priest said: Just because the other Archers are good doesn't mean I should penalize him for that. I mean he is probably worse than Kid Gil but he is still serviceable enough to stay in B. Your list, your criteria. If you do not value that that is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 8 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said: For my rolll on the guaranteed banner I got np2 Rama and Tesla. Decent stuff and for a ticket for the Da Vinci banner I got Saberlot, neato Also, how do Rama and Saberlot compare to each other? Rama is basically just a beatstick until he gets his NP off. He's fine, but his real value was in the recent japanese themed events with demons. I'd say he's kind of like Saberlot's prototype, being a crit saber and all. I still use him since he's still my only STNP saber option outside of Caesar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmokestack Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, DehNutCase said: Dead units don't support, is the problem. (They don't do damage either, but that's a different issue.) Assuming you don't just Jeanne/Merlin through NPs, Hans needs at least enough hp to survive an AoE NP without his own NP buffing him, because otherwise you're taking a 20% chance for him to die every time the enemy NP happens. You could also remove the problem child before they get to NP, or use other skills to pair with Hans own buffs. He is very rarely run as the only support unit. If you are facing a lot of enemies, chances are their health is low enough that they can be dropped before they start causing problems. If there is only one, in the case of ST you can use Mash’s taunt (or any plugsuit taunt really) to buy a free turn. In the case of AOE you have plenty of options: Jeanne and Merlin like you said, but also Tristan and David. If the enemy NP ignores invincible (extremely rare mind you) the strategy can just time defense buffs to take 0 from them. This is doable with certain teams. Some fights with legitimately undodgeable NPs like Da Vinci and Abigail have gimmicks that allow you to control when the enemy NPs as well. Amakusa in Shimosa too, but every support suffers from that fight. It calls for a different strategy. At Lv 100 and max Fou, Hans gets about 12k HP, 2k more if you give him a MLB CE that boosts only HP. That is barely enough to tank an NP from full health. I’d argue the grails in his case make no difference unless you get lucky with damage variation. Also, enemies can’t brave chain like servants can. No enemy can attack more than 3 times in one turn. Sometimes you get unlucky and a support dies. That’s fine. Either reset or have a contingency in place. 2 hours ago, DehNutCase said: Regarding the Medea vs. Nito thing, you know Medea's NP has the same multiplier as Nito's, right? If they had the same Atk stat and NP level they do the same damage. Of course, Medea usually has the better NP level, but Nito usually has the better Atk stat. I’m well aware. However. Nitocris can’t remove buffs, nor is her NP gain nearly as good as Medea’s. Medea can overcharge her NP (or just let Tamamo overcharge hers) for massive refund. Pair that with her 3rd skill (which is targetable and has a debuff clear tacked on) and she can NP repeatedly. Nitocris can’t. Obviously there are fights that Nitocris can handle better than Medea, but overall Medea’s buff removal is more relevant than Nito’s instant kill in difficult fights. 2 hours ago, eclipse said: Here's the thing with crits - I don't leave them up to chance. If I do, then it means that the situation isn't that serious. To guarantee a full crit Brave chain, that's 30 crit stars. The extra 5 are in case I calculated something wrong. A six-turn CD means that I'm going to miss one Brave chain, short of someone dying. Hence why things like support exist - that way, I get my crits as needed, and I can slap something like Another Ending on him. It's not going to always line up, but it's worked out fairly well so far. If you really need to kill something, you’re most likely going to use his NP. Meaning you only need like 20 stars minimum assuming he has exactly two cards in the hand. We’re not saying that you shouldn’t provide stars from other units to support him, but the amount of crit support he needs is minimal, honestly. Hans and 2030 on supports like Tamamo and Mash are going to be mainstays like always. You say 6 CD, but the downtime on Knight of Owner means you’re really just waiting 3 turns to get 15 stars as usual, and 5 turns concurrently to get 35 stars. For Lancelot, 15 stars is plenty. You’ll have to wait even less if Tamamo uses her NP just once. The 5 CD on EAM also means only two turns of downtime before he starts drawing stars again. Again, 2030 and IM from teammates let him continue to draw stars until his burst is back up again. 56 minutes ago, QKumber said: Your list, your criteria. If you do not value that that is ok. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sire Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Thanks for the talks about Medea and Nito! I feel more enlightened about their usage. The main reason I asked is because I tend to use Medea whenever I'm against Assassin comps, as my main Anti-Assassin team is currently Medea, Tamamo Mae, and Iri. It is not the fastest way to beat mobs (especially since Iri was underleveled during my Camelot run), but it gets the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 18 hours ago, eclipse said: I'm almost done with Camelot. Reveal hidden contents I ship Mash and Bedivere. Someone talk some sense into me, please. Spoiler Mash is 16, Bedivere is god knows how old. Is that enough to convince you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said: If you really need to kill something, you’re most likely going to use his NP. Meaning you only need like 20 stars minimum assuming he has exactly two cards in the hand. We’re not saying that you shouldn’t provide stars from other units to support him, but the amount of crit support he needs is minimal, honestly. Hans and 2030 on supports like Tamamo and Mash are going to be mainstays like always. You say 6 CD, but the downtime on Knight of Owner means you’re really just waiting 3 turns to get 15 stars as usual, and 5 turns concurrently to get 35 stars. For Lancelot, 15 stars is plenty. You’ll have to wait even less if Tamamo uses her NP just once. The 5 CD on EAM also means only two turns of downtime before he starts drawing stars again. Again, 2030 and IM from teammates let him continue to draw stars until his burst is back up again. Okay, NP used, SOB in front of me is alive, but in crit range. He/she/it needs to die this turn. That's already happened thrice in Camelot. Of those, I had to burn a command spell in one of those situations to get that win (which really made me mad, because I whiffed a 70% and 80% - had either of those landed, it would've been the end of the battle). Remember what the original argument was? That Lancelot really appreciates support? You named a bunch of support, which was my point. He's not fully self-sufficient, and IMO he doesn't need to be. That's what teammates are for (unless your name is Cu Alter). 20 minutes ago, The Geek said: Reveal hidden contents Mash is 16, Bedivere is god knows how old. Is that enough to convince you? Spoiler Isn't Mash 10? Regardless, nope, not a good enough argument. If dragon girls can get hitched to regular men despite the giant age gap, I don't see why this should be any different. Then again, FE isn't exactly the paragon of responsible shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DehNutCase Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said: You could also remove the problem child before they get to NP, or use other skills to pair with Hans own buffs. He is very rarely run as the only support unit. If you are facing a lot of enemies, chances are their health is low enough that they can be dropped before they start causing problems. If there is only one, in the case of ST you can use Mash’s taunt (or any plugsuit taunt really) to buy a free turn. In the case of AOE you have plenty of options: Jeanne and Merlin like you said, but also Tristan and David. If the enemy NP ignores invincible (extremely rare mind you) the strategy can just time defense buffs to take 0 from them. This is doable with certain teams. Some fights with legitimately undodgeable NPs like Da Vinci and Abigail have gimmicks that allow you to control when the enemy NPs as well. Amakusa in Shimosa too, but every support suffers from that fight. It calls for a different strategy. At Lv 100 and max Fou, Hans gets about 12k HP, 2k more if you give him a MLB CE that boosts only HP. That is barely enough to tank an NP from full health. I’d argue the grails in his case make no difference unless you get lucky with damage variation. Also, enemies can’t brave chain like servants can. No enemy can attack more than 3 times in one turn. Sometimes you get unlucky and a support dies. That’s fine. Either reset or have a contingency in place. Hans is rarely run as the only support precisely because a team needs a stable way to provide durability---if durability is less of an issue, then he can afford to pick different teammates. Like, maybe instead out going all out on a heavy defense servant like Mash he can pair with Waver instead, who's more biased towards offense. Hans gets a bit more than 500hp/grail until he hits 90, incidentally, and even I wouldn't recommend grailing him to 100. (Personally I think 5*s are the best units to level 100, for a similar reason to tossing stat items at Jagens. They start better and end better. Just because they gain less relatively and absolutely doesn't mean they wouldn't be the better units at the end. But not everyone has access to 5* supports, and Hans beats a fair amount of 4* supports in terms of skillset.) By brave chain I meant: focused with all cards. And regarding 'contingency,' that's exactly what the grail is. Just pretend pretend the 500hp Hans that's still on the field came from your backline or something, rather than grail levels. You're just spending grails for it rather than servant slots. Regarding Medea's NP gain. In terms of NP gain per card, Medea has a 50% advantage on her quick card. Their arts and buster NP gain are within 2% of each other. One can even argue that Nito has better NP gain on account of dropping more stars due to far better hitcounts, which means she crits more, but honestly that's as negligible as their NP gain difference. The quick card matters for NP gain, but not for damage---if you press it for NP Medea loses damage relative to Nito. It gains enough NP to match her own Buster's damage, but it won't gain enough NP to match Nito's cards. I'll agree she gets a lot more NPs, though (which is relevant since it's a debuff clear), but damage-wise they're pretty close even if Nito's NP did the same damage as Medea's. (Napkin math says Nito should do less damage in total before NP3, and more after---and including---NP3.) This is mostly because Medea needs an extra NP vs. Nito every 6.7 cards to be equal in total damage if Medea has 10k attack and Nito has 11.5k. It's pretty reasonable that Medea gets 2 NPs off between Divine Words, and Nito gets 1, but Medea will use enough cards that the extra NP wouldn't matter enough for damage to be noticable---the extra effects like increasing other people's overcharge and debuff clear is, though. (I know their skill sets are different enough that who to bring really depends on the team and the fight.) Edit: @eclipse Iri is like 10 or something anyway, so we even have a precedent in the Fate universe if we wanted to ship. Edited July 9, 2018 by DehNutCase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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