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So... Hans got a skill buff

Spoiler

Mermaid's Love is Innocent Monster on crack. Targetable NP charge gain over 3 turns (10 every turn), 15 stars and demerit removed or weakened (can't remember)

 

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Hans buff is a targetted 3 Turn 10 NP regeneration, and Innocent Monster 15 THOSE BASTARDS POWERCREEPED SABERLOT AGAIN I CANT STAND FOR THIS INJUSTICE if you dont understand how it changes his star gen.... it doesn't

 

Star gen always operates based on a self buff that generates stars to put into global star collector, so by making it targetable the functional difference is to make it so that enemy need to buffwipe the target instead of Hans

 

So yeah

 

 

 

Hans is totally the Fionn of this round, all of the other changes ranges from ok to boring, and he got absurd change that catapults him above. I would admit practically speaking Li Shuwen is the true winner, because Interlude is a huge deal of a buff for any servant, especially when applied to single target. To give an idea, NP1 Li Shuwen is now a 46.200 damage NP, and if he's at Np2, he does 57.800


NP2 SSR is, for all intent and purpose, a pseudo SSR, and in this regard Li Shuwen when SSR normalized is (slightly) stronger than Scathach on a servant who have no issue reusing that NP... and everytime you use it, he debuff you by 30% doing close to the original damage

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2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Hans is totally the Fionn of this round

Except this change happened on a Servant that was already Top Tier material.
... which is just insane.

This strengthening round is ... let's say it's impactful to say the least.

Spoiler

Semiramis
Biggest loser of this round. Didn't get a huge buff to her NP damage buff scaling which makes her own damage just disappointing. Buff removal resistance has its uses for CQ and Semiramis is support-ish but eh, it doesn't fix her problems.

Passionlip
Just your basic NP upgrade. Still, 3000 heal is pretty solid and especially Passionlip can always find use for more sustain.

Edison
He continues to be ... himself. He covers some weird niches but nonetheless that skill upgrade is really good. He wasn't a good user of Morph to begin with, now he can make someone else really durable. I honestly want to try out a stall team with him (if I had the guy).

Beowulf
He went from unremarkable to "ima crit ya now". Self Mod-like buffs are really stupid and Beowulf as a Berserker profits a lot from this. He is still probably not good for CQ as he has no sustain and burst damage isn't exactly in high demand for CQ. Still, excellent buff.

Li Shuwen
People complain this buff doesn't fix his "problems". What problems? His forte is dealing burst damage and sure he has a slightly longer downtime compared to other damage dealers but to change that means to overhaul his entire skillset which is not going to happen (if anything Geronimo deserves that much more). Heck, even his SSR Assassin self is not better in that regard and 30% Def debuff is stupid on an Arts Servant that can spam semi-reliably spam his NP.

Kiara
I have no words. She completely eclipsed Ivan's and Qin Shi Huang's best skill.
That's really stupid.

Hans
As JSND said this is a huge buff and makes his entire usage less dependent on his survival. But Honako will still cry about his change-based buffs.

This might be one of the best Strengthening rounds we got so far.

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8 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Except this change happened on a Servant that was already Top Tier material.
... which is just insane.

This strengthening round is ... let's say it's impactful to say the least.

  Hide contents

Semiramis
Biggest loser of this round. Didn't get a huge buff to her NP damage buff scaling which makes her own damage just disappointing. Buff removal resistance has its uses for CQ and Semiramis is support-ish but eh, it doesn't fix her problems.

Passionlip
Just your basic NP upgrade. Still, 3000 heal is pretty solid and especially Passionlip can always find use for more sustain.

Edison
He continues to be ... himself. He covers some weird niches but nonetheless that skill upgrade is really good. He wasn't a good user of Morph to begin with, now he can make someone else really durable. I honestly want to try out a stall team with him (if I had the guy).

Beowulf
He went from unremarkable to "ima crit ya now". Self Mod-like buffs are really stupid and Beowulf as a Berserker profits a lot from this. He is still probably not good for CQ as he has no sustain and burst damage isn't exactly in high demand for CQ. Still, excellent buff.

Li Shuwen
People complain this buff doesn't fix his "problems". What problems? His forte is dealing burst damage and sure he has a slightly longer downtime compared to other damage dealers but to change that means to overhaul his entire skillset which is not going to happen (if anything Geronimo deserves that much more). Heck, even his SSR Assassin self is not better in that regard and 30% Def debuff is stupid on an Arts Servant that can spam semi-reliably spam his NP.

Kiara
I have no words. She completely eclipsed Ivan's and Qin Shi Huang's best skill.
That's really stupid.

Hans
As JSND said this is a huge buff and makes his entire usage less dependent on his survival. But Honako will still cry about his change-based buffs.

This might be one of the best Strengthening rounds we got so far.

Hey fionn is already mid tier before the buff, it just made him almost the god of arts

 

but yeah realistically speaking, Li Shuwen is the true winner of this round by far

 


Also no, QSH best skill is by far and wide his NP charge

 

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

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Beat the Saber Alter Memorial Quest, took 14 turns using @QKumber‘s Archuria, Merlin, Waver, and to a tiny extent Mash because Merlin died a turn or two before the fight ended.  Merlin and Waver were carrying 2030 and there were two Ideal Holy Kings in backrow

Gawain’s is harder really, SAlter ultimately  just has a lot of HP and Merlin owes her ten bucks.  Gawain has his doubled np charge, burns and skill seals, combined with being AOE makes him far greater danger.

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Also no, QSH best skill is by far and wide his NP charge

Well, considering his NP, yes. But in a vacuum I would say AoE NP drain with essentially a Charisma buff is busted, especially on a 6-turn CD.

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10 minutes ago, Magus of Memery said:

Well, considering his NP, yes. But in a vacuum I would say AoE NP drain with essentially a Charisma buff is busted, especially on a 6-turn CD.

AOE Np drain kinda isnt that busted as a whole - its situational(read: if the CQ isn't AOE its a ST drain so the big distinct value is gone)and many CQ runs on different charge timing. Take a look on monkeys as a most recent example.

On QSH part of it is because Merlin is his best complier and he didn't give a fuck. Same with AOE Stun honestly, but unlike AOE drain, AOE stun lets you free from card damage for a turn so its stronger. I honestly think AOE drain is QSH's worst skill and its not even close. Honetsly unlike Summer BB(where people around the world have fucking amnesia and forgot Self Mod is one of the most bullshit thing in the world), this one is a no brainer. AT least i can say Summer BB's 2nd looks strong on paper, when its actually such her worst skill it can be removed for little harm done

Theres also how for the most part if you didn't run NP based drain, Tama drain is enough for some mid range NP cycle areas. Basically the bar of usefulness between 2 Skill NP drain and 1 NP based NP drain + 1 Skill based NP drain is huge. The former can be shaky, the later can arguably do their stuff even against bullshit like Miyu

 

Which one is more valuable, Waver NP, or his entire 50 Battery. Even if you ban every other unit NP

The answer, is clearly the 50 battery. Its tied to how powerful your NP gets, but on average "doing double damage because use Black Grail" is more valuable than "eh they Np 1 turn later"

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Those Memorial quests reminded me of how fricken cool the Tiamat fight was, I love that OST! 

I haven't done the Salter quest yet (I'll do it later today) but I'd rank the other 6 fights like this in descending difficulty order:

  • Jalter. She wasn't hard but having 2 Wyverns with super high Hp was annoying. They managed to get to my backline so that says something.
  • Forneus+Medea Lily. I killed Medea ASAP because no way I'll let her heal the pillar for 9k every so often but the pillar itself was annoying with it's burns. 
  • Tiamat. The battle is epic af and I'll do it another 4 or 5 times. It wasn't all that hard but the buff removal spam was certainly annoying. 
  • Altera. I can't believe I had so much trouble with her in Septem, now she seems like a chump.
  • Cu Alter/Gawain. Euryale shits on them so yeah, they were a joke. Bonus points because Gawain managed to get his NP off like twice and even then he did nothing to Euryale.

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8 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

AOE Np drain kinda isnt that busted as a whole - its situational(read: if the CQ isn't AOE its a ST drain so the big distinct value is gone)and many CQ runs on different charge timing.

The only situation where AoE drain isn't busted are fights with only a single opponent and losing its distinct value is a moot point since it still provides the same utility, just on a smaller scale. Considering how almost every bigger battle now has at least 2 bigger enemies it cannot even be considered situational anymore and different charge timing is most definetly not an argument against its viability.

8 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Same with AOE Stun honestly, but unlike AOE drain, AOE stun lets you free from card damage for a turn so its stronger. I honestly think AOE drain is QSH's worst skill and its not even close. Honetsly unlike Summer BB(where people around the world have fucking amnesia and forgot Self Mod is one of the most bullshit thing in the world), this one is a no brainer. AT least i can say Summer BB's 2nd looks strong on paper, when its actually such her worst skill it can be removed for little harm done

... how can you consider the AoE stun superior?
It's a 70% chance to stick. Considering how most Servants run around with MR or the like it's closer to 50-60%. Sure, compared to other stun skills it's busted because it's on a 6-turn cooldown while affecting all enemies but it's still not reliable enough without a debuff success rate buff. You can break it down to being glorified Valor and without the Atk boost I would consider it mediocre at best. Do you like relying on coin flips?
Summer BB's 2nd skill only looks strong because it has a lot of buffs on it but once you look at her NP and that awful CD it's immediately pales in comparison to her other busted skills. In comparision QSH has a relatively even skill level across his set.

8 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Theres also how for the most part if you didn't run NP based drain, Tama drain is enough for some mid range NP cycle areas. Basically the bar of usefulness between 2 Skill NP drain and 1 NP based NP drain + 1 Skill based NP drain is huge. The former can be shaky, the later can arguably do their stuff even against bullshit like Miyu

Except once we put Tamamo into the equation it becomes moot since your CD cycle is much faster to begin with.
Skill-based Drain + NP drain is about as same in terms of reliability. Any fight with NP drain or (even worse) NP seal neuters that setup.

8 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Which one is more valuable, Waver NP, or his entire 50 Battery. Even if you ban every other unit NP

The answer, is clearly the 50 battery. Its tied to how powerful your NP gets, but on average "doing double damage because use Black Grail" is more valuable than "eh they Np 1 turn later"

On average "preventing my opponent from dealing any significant damage" is better than "hitting my opponent with my wet noodle NP". It's easy to warp such an argument.
Sure, QSH's strength like most other Servants is tied to his NP but NP prop by itself is only as good as your NP (and no, Black Grail isn't capable of saving every NP).

EDIT:
I'll concede though that NP props are far more versatile than a NP drain.

Edited by Magus of Memery

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5 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Beat the Saber Alter Memorial Quest, took 14 turns using @QKumber‘s Archuria, Merlin, Waver, and to a tiny extent Mash because Merlin died a turn or two before the fight ended.  Merlin and Waver were carrying 2030 and there were two Ideal Holy Kings in backrow

Gawain’s is harder really, SAlter ultimately  just has a lot of HP and Merlin owes her ten bucks.  Gawain has his doubled np charge, burns and skill seals, combined with being AOE makes him far greater danger.

I'll disagree with you on that on the grounds that Gawain gets trivialized by Euryale charmlocking, while Salter doesn't have the same glaring weakness and goes out of her way to nuke the supports. Granted, if he was immune to charms his better np would easily make him the more dangerous one.

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Man, I really need to pay more attention to FGO. I almost missed out on MHXA's story which was really, really enjoyable!

I tossed what Tickets I had and 30 Quartz at her, but she didn't show up. Extra tickets may go her way if I get them in time, otherwise I'm still trying for that Ishtar fund for May.

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10 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Beat the Saber Alter Memorial Quest, took 14 turns using @QKumber‘s Archuria, Merlin, Waver, and to a tiny extent Mash because Merlin died a turn or two before the fight ended.  Merlin and Waver were carrying 2030 and there were two Ideal Holy Kings in backrow

Gawain’s is harder really, SAlter ultimately  just has a lot of HP and Merlin owes her ten bucks.  Gawain has his doubled np charge, burns and skill seals, combined with being AOE makes him far greater danger.

Hey glad she helped :D I do love my squirtle a lot

Gonna try that quest tomorrow. So far Gawain was the hardest for my tastes.... ended up just running Tamamo Squirtle Waver for a fast clear cuz God knows I hate Galatine

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2 hours ago, QKumber said:

Hey glad she helped :D I do love my squirtle a lot

Gonna try that quest tomorrow. So far Gawain was the hardest for my tastes.... ended up just running Tamamo Squirtle Waver for a fast clear cuz God knows I hate Galatine

I you love your squirtle why haven't it evolved into Blastoise ;thinking;

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I decided not to invenst in Arjuna and keep Robin, as he is more useful for story mode.

And the Hans buff is for the japanese version right?

Shame, because he’s a great support servant on my team and works really well with Kotarou and Robin.

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11 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

I decided not to invenst in Arjuna and keep Robin, as he is more useful for story mode.

And the Hans buff is for the japanese version right?

Shame, because he’s a great support servant on my team and works really well with Kotarou and Robin.

Hans will get his buff in two years for NA. That goes for any content released in JP, the NA devs have stated they want to keep the gap

also, even if Arjuna is one of the less good 5*, he’s still 5* and worth it for the stats alone.  He also generally does a different role than Robin as he’s primarily a farmer compared to Robin bosskilling

Edited by Glaceon Mage

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41 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Hans will get his buff in two years for NA. That goes for any content released in JP, the NA devs have stated they want to keep the gap

also, even if Arjuna is one of the less good 5*, he’s still 5* and worth it for the stats alone.  He also generally does a different role than Robin as he’s primarily a farmer compared to Robin bosskilling

Yikes, two years? 

And I didn’t mean that I going to sell Arjuna, I just meant that I won’t dedicate resources to level him up now because my resources are still low, though I do plan to make him a farmer eventually.

And speaking of release dates, when will Proto Arthur be released in the west? I kinda want to put him on the same team as my Proto Chulainn.

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33 minutes ago, Water Mage said:

Yikes, two years? 

And I didn’t mean that I going to sell Arjuna, I just meant that I won’t dedicate resources to level him up now because my resources are still low, though I do plan to make him a farmer eventually.

And speaking of release dates, when will Proto Arthur be released in the west? I kinda want to put him on the same team as my Proto Chulainn.

Proto Arthur will release in a few weeks, with the second CBC.

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19 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

I you love your squirtle why haven't it evolved into Blastoise ;thinking;

Have you never watched the shows? The mascots NEVER evolve :P

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I completed the Valentine event, got most of the stuff I wanted from the shop, and beat the challenge quest using a team of Raikou, Waver, and Merlin. Now I get why those two put together are so powerful.

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Trying a stall team for the Challenge Quest as I have no Merlin. (Tamamo [NP2], Mash, Support Jeanne // Kuro, MHX, Herc)

I'm at Turn 30 and just got Salter to halfway HP on her first phase...

Send help pls. This is a terrible idea...

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12 minutes ago, Sire said:

Trying a stall team for the Challenge Quest as I have no Merlin. (Tamamo [NP2], Mash, Support Jeanne // Kuro, MHX, Herc)

I'm at Turn 30 and just got Salter to halfway HP on her first phase...

Send help pls. This is a terrible idea...

lmao, oh no.

Sounds like its working at least. Ive actually been considering a stall team for a bit, but I have no one I can actually make it work with since I dont have a Jeanne or a Tamamo. I have the Lancer one, but not the one needed for stalling lol.

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yolo'd on america banner, got li shu wen.

this puts my gold rarity characters in the past three weeks at

Da Vinci NP2, MHX Alter, Astolfo, Medusa Lily, Li Shu Wen.

 

you win gacha.

i won't quit.

come on gudako just give me quetz, drake, ishtar, or musashi and i'll never complain. 

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No updates on my stall team yet, but I will post the FGO IDs because I haven't done that in a while..

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Serenes FGO - Friend Code IDs

Spoiler

If I missed anyone, need to make a correction, or remove you from the list, let me know! (Use the [@UserName] feature so I get a notification, or just quote one of my posts.)

Note that I (Sire) do not play the JP version, so I will not know the in game names.

[UPDATE LOG - February 28th, 2019]
-- Added Jedi (Jedi).
-- Added Tolvir (Tolvir). [Friends Capped]

Forum Posters (NA)
MrSmokestack - 062,476,598 (MrSmokestack)
Magus of Memery  - 863,169,679 (Ren) Note: Please notify Magus of Memery if adding as a friend in FGO.
Sire - 815 519 689 (Sire)
JSND Alter Dragon Boner - 283,900,798 (JSND)
Jingle Jangle - 812,852,640 (Jingles)
Glaceon Mage -  171,099,109 (Glaceon Mage) Note: Please notify Glaceon Mage if adding as a friend in FGO.
LuxSpes -  292,726,441 (Lux)
Alexmender - 423,824,954 (Alexmender)
Jedi - 854,778,144 (Jedi)

Active Members (NA)
SecondWorld - 403,067,254 (David)
MediocreLee - 015,794,040 (MediocreLee)
Rothene - 750,157,837 (Rothene)
Ebony - 233,925,133 (Hannah)
TheGeek - 722,418,335 (Geek)
N30 - 086,951,059 (Arcadia)
Mister Rogers - 356,589,556 (Czarpy)
Scoot -  999,540,146 (Nat)
Troykv - 370,389,828 (Micky) Note: Please notify Troykv if adding as a friend in FGO.
Necrofantasia - 025,447,171 (Jules) Note: Please notify Necrofantasia if adding as a friend in FGO.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Friends List Capped (NA)
Zak Something - 883,068,826 (Zak)
QKumber - 314,369,629 (QK)
Emeraldfox - 674,653,620  (Emeraldfox)
Lord-Zero - 285,321,342 (Lord-Zero)
Polydeuces - 302,111,199 (Poly)
Sekki - 082,416,051 (Sekki)
Tolvir - 636,017,397 (Tolvir)

Inactive Members (NA)
Phillius the Crestfallen - 961, 944, 081 (Time)
eclipse - 917,798,708 (eclipse)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

JP IDs
Glaceon Mage -  278 184 018 // Note: Please notify Glaceon Mage if adding as a friend in FGO.
N30 -  555 282 304

Edited by Sire
Update

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I'm confused. I can't find Salter's memorial quest. Is it the last one that needs all of them cleared?

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Just now, redlight said:

I'm confused. I can't find Salter's memorial quest. Is it the last one that needs all of them cleared?

Yes.

7 hours ago, Sire said:

Trying a stall team for the Challenge Quest as I have no Merlin. (Tamamo [NP2], Mash, Support Jeanne // Kuro, MHX, Herc)

I'm at Turn 30 and just got Salter to halfway HP on her first phase...

Send help pls. This is a terrible idea...

If you want to abandon that boat, try Chloe - Tamamo - Waver - Mash - Robin Hood - Herc. That was my setup for this but it required CS usage for the last 500k HP.
Honestly if your Waver is high enough you can use a Support Merlin to make your party immortal.

--------

The challenge quest were ok, it was a good reminder how fights were back then.

Spoiler

For these quests I banned the usage of:
- Gilgamesh
- Saberlot
- Merlin
Because they would erase the "challenge" part of the challenge quests.

Orleans
Team: Shiki - Tamamo - Support Waver - Mash - Vlad - Saber Alter (Bond farming)
This fight reminded how much I hate Wyverns. Probably the most challenging fight among the first 5 since both Ruler JAlter and the Wyverns are pretty tanky with the latter killing your Casters very fast if they are not dealt with. But it's pretty basic overall.

Septem
Team: Robin Hood - Waver - Support Waver - Tamamo - Mash - Saber Alter (Bond farming)
This fight is a joke. Robin Hood with Black Grail almost 1-shots Altera and even without that just counterclassing with Archers makes this super easy.

Okeanos
Team: Iskandar - Ozymandias - Support Waver - Mash - Kintoki (Rider) - Saber Alter (Bond farming)
Could have been challenging if not for the fact that both are weak to Riders. Honestly I shouldn't even have bothered to deploy Dio, a 2nd use of Ionian Hetairoi would have finished this fight much quicker.

London
Team: Mordred - Bedivere - Support Waver - Mash - Saber Alter (Bond farming)
See Septem fight except now you use Sabers.

E Pluribus Unum
Team: Scathach - Waver - Support Waver - Mash - Kojiro - Saber Alter (Bond farming)
You can probably guess what Scathach's CE was. Cu Alter was very dead after the first turn.

Camelot
Team: Chloe - Tamamo - Support Waver - Mash - Robin Hood - Heracles
I'm a bit disappointed that Gawain doesn't have his stronger grail buff but this fight is still somewhat challenging. Chloe just rips him apart so quickly and while I lost Waver from constant Galantine spam, it was easier than I thought.

Babylonia
Team: Vlad - Tamamo - Support Waver - Mash - Shiki - Saber Alter (Bond farming)
Maybe I read it wrong but I remember there is a challenge quest where you face her without the underworld buffs. Would have made this fight far more interesting but as it is just hitting her till she dies.
But man, that music is so good.

Fuyuki
Team: Chloe - Tamamo - Support Waver - Mash - Robin Hood - Heracles
First fight with break bars and I now fully understand why people dread this mechanic. Uff, Saber Alter has a lot of HP and that added Def debuff doesn't do any favors keeping your team alive. I had to use CS after taking away around half of her last bar which is a bit unfortunate but Chloe's skill are just at 4/4/4 and I messed up by forgetting Tamamo's Morph. Meh, I will probably attempt this again with a different team.

 

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