A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones thread: A Clash of Threads

[Lushen]

On 8/23/2017 at 5:30 PM, Elincia said:

Man episode 6 was insane. (Fire and Ice <3) Can't wait for the finale. I am a bit bummed over this season being cut short (from what I've heard it was supposedly cause of time and budget constraints).

Havent gotten around to reading the books yet. I'm well aware that the show has long gone off the books, but still. Should probably read through them while waiting for season 8.

Yea, you have to look at how expensive this season was. Dragons, zombie polar bears, armies left and right full of extras, new locations like Dragonsreach, Field of Fire 2.0, etc, actors renegotiating contracts.  Dunno why they didn't include the wolves though.  People keep claiming it would be too expensive but they already have Wolf assets (meshes, textures, and rigging) so all they'd need to do is the animations.  Doesn't seem like it would be that expensive, especially since the team already has a bunch of experience manipulating the asset.

I loved hearing how the writers basically told their CGI team to go fuck themselves when they said they couldn't afford to make a zombie polar bear.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Lushen

[Etrurian emperor]

Oh poor Littlefinger. He went from being one of the masterminds behind the entire war to being everyone's bitch in season 7 and getting reduced to plotting to drive a wedge between two girls....and fail. 

I have a feeling the writers just didn't quite know what to do with poor Littlefinger and just wanted to be rid of him.

[Elincia]

Man that season finale was amazing. Excited to see how Jon and Dany's relationships goes. I get that it's GoT, and things never end happily, but nevertheless I'm still excited.

I don't see them beginning related as that much of an issue. The Targaryen are pretty much incestuous by nature in order to retain their dragons blood. The Starks are even know for marrying off uncle/niece and cousin/cousin, and since Jon was raised Stark, he'll probably come to accept it to. Granted, it'll probably still make things awkward for them, but they'll most likely get over it. Jon being the true heir may cause some conflicts for Dany, since she wont be top dog anymore, but she'll learn to get over since Winter is Here. Plus I doubt Jon will accept it anyway, him and Dany will likely just rule together. The only major issue I see coming out of their relationship is that the northerners will not be please with it at all, and they're already on the verge of rebelling against Jon anyway. Also looks like Jon and Dany may have 2 armies to deal with, fuck Cersi btw.

Now comes the long wait for season 8. I guess I'll rewatch the series and start reading through the books till then.

[blah the Prussian]

The Euron I know is not terrified of a mere Wight. The Euron I know would gladly blow the Horn of Joramun from atop the Hightower and gleefully watch as the world is consumed by the apocalypse, then become god of the ashes. 

 

Also, Littlefinger should have been beaten in season six after Sansa was never given to the Boltons, because seriously, how hard is it to introduce Jeyne Poole, FFS. I'm assuming that his demise will go down somewhat similar in the books, except, you know, in the books Littlefinger would have power over Sansa, whereas in the show she has power over him, making it more a situation of "Sansa arbitrarily decides to kill him one day". Ah well, Aiden Gillen was one of the greatest casting decisions of all time, alongside Charles Dance as Tywin.

[Lushen]

I think Littlefinger's death was fine.  He might have been one of the greatest masterminds in the world but as soon as he went North you could tell he didn't know what he was doing.  He stopped plotting and started improvising.  I think he couldn't understand the rules of the North.  His other mistake, that you could see from the beginning, is his attachment to Cat (and thereby, Sansa).  The storyline played out perfectly, his whole purpose in the show was to get things going and teach Sansa how to be manipulative and play the game.

IRL, kings wed their cousins to keep their bloodline pure back in the dark ages.  Not saying that justifies it...but...well hopefully she can indeed not have kids.  One thing to note, you can tell that them being cousins will be a problem for them.  Otherwise, RR Martin wouldn't have written the story this way, why make the two characters we love the most engage in incest if they knew?  It's supposed to be awkward, I don't think RR Martin is trying to justify it too much.

I believed Euron during the finale.  Man, as ruthless as he is he was so convincing.  Prediction - Theon will save Yara and Yara will call him their king.  Yara might be prideful, but she is honorable.  If she is saved by her Brother, I think she will give the crown to him.  Either that, or she will die.  Otherwise, they would have made Yara the main character from the beginning.  Hopefully she doesn't die though, b/c I want to see her fight the walkers.

Best scene was right when danny arrived and when the walker went after Cersei. Funny, but dramatic moments.

Finale was worse than ep6, but that's to be expected.  Only once, has the finale been better than the episode before it.  Finale-1 is always the best.  The only time this was not true was the last season where ep10 and ep8 were the best, and 9 was meh.  All the other seasons, finale-1.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Lushen

[Ae†her]

Would Daenaerys even care that she just had sex with her nephew. I mean she has to know of the incestuous bloodline from which she was born of, and it works out if they join together because Jon is the rightful king plus the chosen King in the North. No one just has to know that he is the rightful King because he is actually a Targaryen. He can just join their houses properly now; Targaryen and Stark, the attempt that Rhaegar and Lyanna failed to do. People freak out over it for some reason though, Jon's genes are different enough from his aunt that they could probably not have messed up children, I mean just look at Cersei and Jaime's last two children, it can't be worse than that, right?

---------------------

Also by the way how would you guys rank the different battles in the series?

This is my ranking:

1. Defending the Wall ("We should've stayed in that cave.")

2. Battle of the Bastards (Just really angry they didn't give the giant any armor.)

3. The Dragon vs The Lion (Not really what it's called, but I like to call Daenaerys epic surprise attack just that.)

4. Defending Kingslanding (Credit goes to Tyrion here.)

5. The Night King Strikes (Really more a massacre and defend until escape more than a battle.)

6. The Night's Watch Brings Justice (When Jon attacks Karl Tanner, and the other traitors.)

7. The Five Bearded Men vs Army of the Dead (Just amazed that they weren't swarmed by the entire army, when literally one of the wights got on the rest of them should've just ran up the five men and ganged them, but for some reason that didn't happen. Did not really like this fight.) 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Logos

[blah the Prussian]

5 hours ago, Lushen said:

IRL, kings wed their cousins to keep their bloodline pure back in the dark ages.  Not saying that justifies it...but...well hopefully she can indeed not have kids.  One thing to note, you can tell that them being cousins will be a problem for them.  Otherwise, RR Martin wouldn't have written the story this way, why make the two characters we love the most engage in incest if they knew?  It's supposed to be awkward, I don't think RR Martin is trying to justify it too much.

 

It was never about keeping bloodlines pure. When it happened(which was more in early modern era than Middle Ages) it was because royal families were so intermarried already that making alliances resulted in incest by accident. They didn't care about keeping the bloodline pure.

[Lushen]

8 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

It was never about keeping bloodlines pure. When it happened(which was more in early modern era than Middle Ages) it was because royal families were so intermarried already that making alliances resulted in incest by accident. They didn't care about keeping the bloodline pure.

I had always assumed it was because they didn't want to give other families any power.  By keeping the king's bloodline in the royal family, no other house could have a strong claim or enough power to overthrow the royal family.  But, I'm not too much of a history buff, so you probably know more than I.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

It was never about keeping bloodlines pure. When it happened(which was more in early modern era than Middle Ages) it was because royal families were so intermarried already that making alliances resulted in incest by accident. They didn't care about keeping the bloodline pure.

Weren't there "forbidden degrees" of relatedness which you could file for divorce within the RCC over?

[blah the Prussian]

10 hours ago, Lushen said:

I had always assumed it was because they didn't want to give other families any power.  By keeping the king's bloodline in the royal family, no other house could have a strong claim or enough power to overthrow the royal family.  But, I'm not too much of a history buff, so you probably know more than I.

Quite the opposite; in the Middle Ages monarchies had virtually no power, so needed to marry noble families to have power bases. The issue was that by the 1600s or so the noble families were all so related that it was de facto incest.

[Elincia]

16 hours ago, Lushen said:

IRL, kings wed their cousins to keep their bloodline pure back in the dark ages.  Not saying that justifies it...but...well hopefully she can indeed not have kids.  One thing to note, you can tell that them being cousins will be a problem for them.  Otherwise, RR Martin wouldn't have written the story this way, why make the two characters we love the most engage in incest if they knew?  It's supposed to be awkward, I don't think RR Martin is trying to justify it too much.

They pretty much hitted at Dany getting pregnant during a conversion between her and Jon. 'Death is the price for life' Dany had just lost Viserion, something close to her, which could allow her to once again bare children. 

The Targaryens are incestuous by nature so that they can retain their dragon blood. So yeah it might be awkward for them initially, but I truly doubt it will split them up, and Jon being the true heir gives them even more reason to be together.

[Elincia]

13 hours ago, Logos said:

Would Daenaerys even care that she just had sex with her nephew. I mean she has to know of the incestuous bloodline from which she was born of, and it works out if they join together because Jon is the rightful king plus the chosen King in the North. No one just has to know that he is the rightful King because he is actually a Targaryen. He can just join their houses properly now; Targaryen and Stark, the attempt that Rhaegar and Lyanna failed to do. People freak out over it for some reason though, Jon's genes are different enough from his aunt that they could probably not have messed up children, I mean just look at Cersei and Jaime's last two children, it can't be worse than that, right?

I feel like people are making way too much of a big deal about it. Both the Targaryens and Starks have a history of incest. Both of them must be aware of their houses history to some extent. IRC Dany's parents were siblings and she turned out perfectly fine. And yeah, you cant get worse than Jamie and Cersi, lol.

[Ae†her]

17 hours ago, Lushen said:

I think Littlefinger's death was fine.  He might have been one of the greatest masterminds in the world but as soon as he went North you could tell he didn't know what he was doing.  He stopped plotting and started improvising.  I think he couldn't understand the rules of the North.  His other mistake, that you could see from the beginning, is his attachment to Cat (and thereby, Sansa).  The storyline played out perfectly, his whole purpose in the show was to get things going and teach Sansa how to be manipulative and play the game.

While it certainly was fun to see Little Finger die a horrible death, you would think someone who played the game so well would deserve at least a somewhat more dignifying end, but instead we got this instant betrayal from Sansa. It felt somewhat irregular to me that Sansa and Arya were just pretending to be in conflict so that Little Finger would think he could manipulate them to get them to turn on each other. It wasn't clear at all, and it didn't develop enough for an actual plot point. In fact if Sansa wanted to kill Little Finger she could've done it a long time ago, it didn't make sense why she did it all of a sudden just because Littlefinger wanted to turn her against Arya. Little Finger got her father killed, didn't help her mother when she would need it the most, and still gave her to the Boltons, and I certainly hope she just didn't go against Little Finger because Bran had just informed her of everything L. Baelish has done. They would at least have to show that on screen because it's such an important occurrence not to mention it wasn't even hinted at during the "trial" that Sansa started. Just didn't feel right for Aiden Gillan to go out like that.

----------------

On a different matter Jaime leaving to Winterfell to warn the northerners was the best thing. It seemed like Jaime hadn't changed much personality and motive-wise, other than his increased sense of pity, and empathy for others. Now you can truly see that Jaime is done being called the backstabber, and he wants to do what's right which is helping the North defeat the threat above. He called out Cersei on her irrationality and lack of judgement, and it was something I truly enjoyed seeing.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Logos

[Lushen]

13 minutes ago, Logos said:

While it certainly was fun to see Little Finger die a horrible death, you would think someone who played the game so well would deserve at least a somewhat more dignifying end, but instead we got this instant betrayal from Sansa. It felt somewhat irregular to me that Sansa and Arya were just pretending to be in conflict so that Little Finger would think he could manipulate them to get them to turn on each other. It wasn't clear at all, and it didn't develop enough for an actual plot point. In fact if Sansa wanted to kill Little Finger she could've done it a long time ago, it didn't make sense why she did it all of a sudden just because Littlefinger wanted to turn her against Arya. Little Finger got her father killed, didn't help her mother when she would need it the most, and still gave her to the Boltons, and I certainly hope she just didn't go against Little Finger because Bran had just informed her of everything L. Baelish has done. They would at least have to show that on screen because it's such an important occurrence not to mention it wasn't even hinted at during the "trial" that Sansa started. Just didn't feel right for Aiden Gillan to go out like that.

That's why I loved it though.  Like you have this mastermind manipulator and when he went to the north he slowly realized that he didn't know what he was doing outside of king's landing.  You kept seeing him slowly and slowly sulk in the corner more, he was fighting hard to stay relevant.

 

13 minutes ago, Logos said:

On a different matter Jaime leaving to Winterfell to warn the northerners was the best thing. It seemed like Jaime hadn't changed much personality and motive-wise, other than his increased sense of pity, and empathy for others. Now you can truly see that Jaime is done being called the backstabber, and he wants to do what's right which is helping the North defeat the threat above. He called out Cersei on her irrationality and lack of judgement, and it was something I truly enjoyed seeing.

Am I the only one that thought Cersei was going to kill Jamie at the end?  There were no major deaths in a long time, they had that music playing, it was one of the final scenes. I was so sure he was dead.  

A lot of people are speculating that Jamie will kill Cersei with his baby instead of himself.  I still think he will kill her himself right before she is about to do something totally immoral.  Others are speculating that him and Brienne will get together, but I don't think so.  He needs to have a tragic moment where he kills the only person he ever loved, he can't move on until then.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Lushen

[Etrurian emperor]

Does anyone find it pretty damming that Danny doesn't ask Eleria Sand back? Judging from her final scene it seems much more likely that she is still in the dungeon getting tortured then that she's dead. Eleria may be a complete monster but she's still Danny's ally yet Danny doesn't say a word about her. 

[-Cynthia-]

9 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Does anyone find it pretty damming that Danny doesn't ask Eleria Sand back? Judging from her final scene it seems much more likely that she is still in the dungeon getting tortured then that she's dead. Eleria may be a complete monster but she's still Danny's ally yet Danny doesn't say a word about her. 

 

I think the show is just trying to ignore Dorne at this point. It's possible that Ellaria's leadership over Dorne was pretty shaky anyway since she's just a bastard that was married to a Martell. We don't see any other Dornish houses so it's hard to say for sure what's happening down there.

[blah the Prussian]

Almost certain that the Yronwoods would have marched on Sunspear the moment she was captured. The problem with the Littlefinger story is that there was no real danger to any o the heroes at any point, and thus no suspense.

[Ansem]

Can we talk about how it took Jon 7 seasons to meet Daenerys and only 7 episodes to fuck her? 

 

[Lushen]

On 9/4/2017 at 9:33 PM, libtard snowflake said:

Can we talk about how it took Jon 7 seasons to meet Daenerys and only 7 episodes to fuck her? 

Some people think the entire storyline of "Ice and Fire" was getting Ice (Jon) to meet Fire (Danny).  Personally, I don't think that's the case b/c Jon is not actually a Snow or a Stark so I don't think he classifies as "Ice".  I think it's simply Ice (Whitewalkers) and Fire (Men).  Why Men and not a specific house or dragons?  Well one of the ways to kill the whitewalkers is with fire, something Man is credited with discovering and using since the cave men.  So I think all Men contribute to the 'fire' part of Ice and Fire. Additionally, humans are warm blooded (fire) while the dead are cold blooded (ice).  Fire also corresponds to life whereas Ice corresponds to death.  I think there's a lot of metaphors suggesting Ice (Whitewalkers) and Fire (Men).  Don't think it's dragons b/c I think the dragons are a tool for the Men.  

More to your point, I wonder if Danny has political reasons.  I don't think Jon would, he doesn't care for politics.  Now I know Danny has personal feelings for Jon, but I can't help but think some of it is because she needs an ally.

 

edit:
This is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Lushen

[Moblin Major General]

18 hours ago, Lushen said:

Some people think the entire storyline of "Ice and Fire" was getting Ice (Jon) to meet Fire (Danny).  Personally, I don't think that's the case b/c Jon is not actually a Snow or a Stark so I don't think he classifies as "Ice".  I think it's simply Ice (Whitewalkers) and Fire (Men).  Why Men and not a specific house or dragons?  Well one of the ways to kill the whitewalkers is with fire, something Man is credited with discovering and using since the cave men.  So I think all Men contribute to the 'fire' part of Ice and Fire. Additionally, humans are warm blooded (fire) while the dead are cold blooded (ice).  Fire also corresponds to life whereas Ice corresponds to death.  I think there's a lot of metaphors suggesting Ice (Whitewalkers) and Fire (Men).  Don't think it's dragons b/c I think the dragons are a tool for the Men.  

More to your point, I wonder if Danny has political reasons.  I don't think Jon would, he doesn't care for politics.  Now I know Danny has personal feelings for Jon, but I can't help but think some of it is because she needs an ally.

 

edit:
This is the funniest thing I've seen in a long time

 

GoT shot as a wholesome family romance.

[Ae†her]

I know this feels kind of random, but after listening to Season 3 OST on repeat, I just felt I had to come back to this thread and say this: 

Looking back ever since Season 5 the show has noticeably dropped in quality of writing with Season 7 having been the worst so far (at least for me). I'm not sure what is store for us in Season 8, but I sincerely hope the writers of the show get their act together, and take elements from Season 1-4, and start making the show as good as it was back then.

Also I'm curious how do other ASOIAF and Game of Thrones fans rate the season in terms of quality? For me it was 4/3 > 1 > 2 > 6 > 5 > 7.

 

[blah the Prussian]

13 hours ago, Logos said:

I know this feels kind of random, but after listening to Season 3 OST on repeat, I just felt I had to come back to this thread and say this: 

Looking back ever since Season 5 the show has noticeably dropped in quality of writing with Season 7 having been the worst so far (at least for me). I'm not sure what is store for us in Season 8, but I sincerely hope the writers of the show get their act together, and take elements from Season 1-4, and start making the show as good as it was back then.

Also I'm curious how do other ASOIAF and Game of Thrones fans rate the season in terms of quality? For me it was 4/3 > 1 > 2 > 6 > 5 > 7.

 

For me, 3>2>4>1>6>5>7. Season 7 has a huge issue in that the Others only get past the wall thanks to Diabolous ex Machina. They should have kept how the Wall will fall from the books; makes much more sense.

[Ae†her]

22 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

For me, 3>2>4>1>6>5>7. Season 7 has a huge issue in that the Others only get past the wall thanks to Diabolous ex Machina. They should have kept how the Wall will fall from the books; makes much more sense.

Interesting, I'm curious why you put them in that order? And yes the story writing done by David and Dan is just awful, the way they killed off Littlefinger, made Arya into a randomly well-skilled ... whatever she is supposed to be (especially with that dumb fight scene against Brienne), and all the deus ex machina moments it was horrendously, and noticeably different than the other seasons. It's like as soon as Martin left to do his books the show fell apart.

[blah the Prussian]

9 hours ago, Logos said:

Interesting, I'm curious why you put them in that order? And yes the story writing done by David and Dan is just awful, the way they killed off Littlefinger, made Arya into a randomly well-skilled ... whatever she is supposed to be (especially with that dumb fight scene against Brienne), and all the deus ex machina moments it was horrendously, and noticeably different than the other seasons. It's like as soon as Martin left to do his books the show fell apart.

Seasons Six and Five at least kept some of the politics, which the show IMO was actually doing sort of well, while character growth and fantasy is what they screwed up. Come Season Sevdn all that's gone and we get stuff like the Others only being able to destroy the Wall with Viserion and Euron passing out.

[Ae†her]

1 hour ago, blah the Prussian said:

Seasons Six and Five at least kept some of the politics, which the show IMO was actually doing sort of well, while character growth and fantasy is what they screwed up. Come Season Sevdn all that's gone and we get stuff like the Others only being able to destroy the Wall with Viserion and Euron passing out.

I actually have the same ending order 6 > 5 > 7 I was curious about what you liked about the excellent first four seasons individually. For me Season 4 and Season 3 had Jon's best Arc, which was going North so it was pretty spectacular, and of course there's the red wedding, and my favorite battle scene: Battle on Castle Black. Lol there were just so many good things in Seasons 3 and 4.