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Kotaku/Nintendo Dream info (Class Change/Promotion teased, uneven character distribution, and ...Donnel... ?)


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Just now, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Did Warriors games always have elements?

Pretty sure they do. They tend to act more like status effects (like damage over time) or bonus damage through certain conditions (like enemies getting more damage if knocked in the air than staying on the ground) than determining weaknesses and resistances though. With that, I'd say we're likely gonna have the five main FE elements (Fire, Thunder, Wind, Light, Dark) play a role in this game, perhaps another element, while the rest of the typical JRPG elements are only for visual effects.

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5 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Did Warriors games always have elements?

Yep, though they tend to proc only on certain attacks with each having a different effect (Fire's some damage over time,Wind is the best and makes attacks unblockable, forget everything else because those were the only two I find worth using).

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14 hours ago, Armagon said:

Of course, that canonically drains her life. Maybe Azura becomes the SSBM Pichu of this game.

Well, the work doesn't have to be faithful to every aspect of the series.

I mean if it hinders gameplay, that is a design decision they must make.

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10 hours ago, DaloDask said:

Also do to Medeus what they did to Ganondorf in Hyrule Warriors and I'll be instantly sold

You can't beat the Ganon slap!

Or that mane- Medeus would be a much more complex character by virtue of just having that.

 

As for game distribution, it seems it'll be more unbalanced than HW was. Ocarina of Time totally had the most representation in the base game, but Twilight Princess wasn't that far behind, and is about equal when DLC is factored in. Skyward Sword was the most neglected game of the trio referenced. If I had to set ratios of representation in terms of characters plus locales at this point, I'll say 10% OC (Original Creation), 50% Awakening, 30% Fates, 10% Archanea.

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5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You can't beat the Ganon slap!

Or that mane- Medeus would be a much more complex character by virtue of just having that.

 

As for game distribution, it seems it'll be more unbalanced than HW was. Ocarina of Time totally had the most representation in the base game, but Twilight Princess wasn't that far behind, and is about equal when DLC is factored in. Skyward Sword was the most neglected game of the trio referenced. If I had to set ratios of representation in terms of characters plus locales at this point, I'll say 10% OC (Original Creation), 50% Awakening, 30% Fates, 10% Archanea.

Twilight Princess had three, Ocarina had two. Sheik and Impa were not from there.

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16 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Twilight Princess had three, Ocarina had two. Sheik and Impa were not from there.

Yeah, the mainline game with the most representation was Twilight Princess, while OoT and SS got only two characters each, with OC!Impa and OC!Sheik "cheating the numbers" so that it looked like all three had equal representation.

Though that kinda worked out for fans of those OoT and SS characters since they would latter be prioritized in terms of costumes for the Legends DLC.

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Personally I took "uneven character distribution" to mean that each game won't have the exact number of characters, but what do I know.

7 hours ago, Folt said:

Right now, I have hope for Azura, since Rena Strober did say something rather suspicious in that regard.

I've never heard Ms. Strober say anything relating to Warriors or Azura being in Warriors, so I would like to know what this "something rather suspicious" is.

Edited by Lightchao42
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15 hours ago, Gustavos said:

Anna had better be playable. She'll cut into everything EXCEPT for those profit margins.

I know the 20+ characters is just speculation, but I think clones or shared, generic movesets would be the only way we reach that many. Gotta save some ideas for 2018's Hyrule Warriors Legends.

Sorry, I'm just really peeved that the question of Pikmin Warriors was shut down. Come on. There's nothing too weird or out there for a warriors game.

I can think of at least two dozen movesets they could pull from the main Zelda games without relying on Warriors. As long as they focus on doing a moveset that matches the class, overlap is fine. No Pikmin Warriors is disappointing, but I guess I can latch onto Dreamland Warriors in its stead...

13 hours ago, Slumber said:

I was initially looking forward to this as being a big celebration of Fire Emblem in Warriors(A franchise I'm not really a fan of) form, which got me excited. 

Then they announced that it was mostly going to be Shadow Dragon, Awakening, and Fates, my enthusiasm dropped significantly, because by and large, those are my three least favorite casts in the franchise. And their "There'd be too many swordies" reasoning was so confusing and stupid that it frustrated me. But, I do actually like a fair chunk of Fates' characters, and while I really don't care for the Archanea characters because I think they're as bland as all hell, I do respect the archetypes many of them set, and the potential for expansion could be fun.

But with a lot of these interviews, the focus comes back to Awakening, which is hands down my least favorite cast in the franchise. And things like "Oh yeah, Donnel's a meme, and people like memes, so we'll think about adding him. Thanks for constantly memeing about Donnel, Kotaku." just make me wonder why I would ever play this if it's a franchise I'm not super into and characters I don't like are going to be front and center. 

It's cool if other people are still excited, but this game is turning out to be everything I didn't want it to be. 

At the risk of sounding callous, it sounds like you were setting yourself up for disappointment from the start. Anyone that had hope for this announmcent AND hope for representation from the past games (a fair number of which never made it out of Japan) was flying too close to the sun. Still, it is sad to hear that it's not going to be towards your liking; here's hoping that something gets announced in the lead-up that brings you (and me) back on board with the notion.

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14 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Personally I took "uneven character distribution" to mean that each game won't have the exact number of characters, but what do I know.

I've never heard Ms. Strober say anything relating to Warriors or Azura being in Warriors, so I would like to know what this "something rather suspicious" is.

I don't have the source on hand, but there was an interview a while back with Rena Strober where she mentioned she was excited to voice Azura again for FEH and a few other things she couldn't talk about yet.  That's what's being referred to as 'suspicious'.

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32 minutes ago, DIO said:

I can think of at least two dozen movesets they could pull from the main Zelda games without relying on Warriors. As long as they focus on doing a moveset that matches the class, overlap is fine. No Pikmin Warriors is disappointing, but I guess I can latch onto Dreamland Warriors in its stead...

At the risk of sounding callous, it sounds like you were setting yourself up for disappointment from the start. Anyone that had hope for this announmcent AND hope for representation from the past games (a fair number of which never made it out of Japan) was flying too close to the sun. Still, it is sad to hear that it's not going to be towards your liking; here's hoping that something gets announced in the lead-up that brings you (and me) back on board with the notion.

I didn't expect equal distribution, and I fully expected some games to get preferential treatment. Chrom was the reveal character, after all. But I was at least hoping that people from more than 3 games would be represented. Go look at any of the threads that were made prior to the "It's going to be SD, Awakening and Fates" comment, and you'll see pretty much everyone hoping/expecting at least one or two representatives from each game. I really was far from alone when it came to expecting units from all throughout the franchise.

Then the "SD, Awakening, and Fates" comment came out, and some people saw the writing on the wall, but some people were at least hoping for equal distribution if they were just limiting themselves to 3 games.

And now that's pretty much out the window, as every new piece of information about the game that's coming out is "Don't expect equal distribution, expect more Awakening."

For some people, that's great. For me, it's pretty much the worst outcome imaginable.

Edited by Slumber
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58 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

Personally I took "uneven character distribution" to mean that each game won't have the exact number of characters, but what do I know.

I've never heard Ms. Strober say anything relating to Warriors or Azura being in Warriors, so I would like to know what this "something rather suspicious" is.

 

41 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

I don't have the source on hand, but there was an interview a while back with Rena Strober where she mentioned she was excited to voice Azura again for FEH and a few other things she couldn't talk about yet.  That's what's being referred to as 'suspicious'.

I found the relevant interview for you. It's under a spoiler just in case:

Spoiler

The relevant stuff starts around 25:50 or so, but because it can be taken out of context, I'd recommend you start at 24:16 (which is when the interviewer asks about her returning as Azura in multiple FE installments) or 25-25:30 minutes in (she's still answering the question at that point).

 

Edited by Folt
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26 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I didn't expect equal distribution, and I fully expected some games to get preferential treatment. Chrom was the reveal character, after all. But I was at least hoping that people from more than 3 games would be represented. Go look at any of the threads that were made prior to the "It's going to be SD, Awakening and Fates" comment, and you'll see pretty much everyone hoping/expecting at least one or two representatives from each game. I really was far from alone when it came to expecting units from all throughout the franchise.

Then the "SD, Awakening, and Fates" comment came out, and some people saw the writing on the wall, but some people were at least hoping for equal distribution if they were just limiting themselves to 3 games.

And now that's pretty much out the window, as every new piece of information about the game that's coming out is "Don't expect equal distribution, expect more Awakening."

For some people, that's great. For me, it's pretty much the worst outcome imaginable.

I remember, I also had the mindset that the clamor and furor was ultimately gearing up to be dissapointed. I remember Hyrule Warriors initial release and all the speculation about who could be brought in from the GBC days, and the backlash when it turned out that only OOT, TP, and SS were being represented. It's the sad reality, especially of a series that has at least 50 named characters per game that could be 'viable' for inclusion. Much as I'd wish and hope, I don't hold out a lot of hope that say, Fredrick or Gregor will be included. But that's fine, because I really don't see anything appealing to me about the game.

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6 minutes ago, DIO said:

Fredrick

In my opinion, Freddy has a better than average chance of getting in. Being one of the two natural Great Knights in the featured games could give him an edge. He could specialize in Lances (or Axes, if the Lance cavalry spot is taken by Camus), which'd seperate him from Xander.

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44 minutes ago, Folt said:

I found the relevant interview for you. It's under a spoiler just in case:

  Reveal hidden contents

The relevant stuff starts around 25:50 or so, but because it can be taken out of context, I'd recommend you start at 24:16 (which is when the interviewer asks about her returning as Azura in multiple FE installments) or 25-25:30 minutes in (she's still answering the question at that point).

 

Thank you, but obviously she's implying that Fates is getting a sequel, not that Azura will be in Warriors. Or maybe she's getting another version in Heroes? I figured that Azura was likely, but it's nice to know that she's even more likely than I previously thought.

(But still I don't really mind there being only three games as long as there is enough variety/balance and the gameplay is good)

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2 hours ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

In my opinion, Freddy has a better than average chance of getting in. Being one of the two natural Great Knights in the featured games could give him an edge. He could specialize in Lances (or Axes, if the Lance cavalry spot is taken by Camus), which'd seperate him from Xander.

I think it's more likely Frederick would be the axe cav unit with Camus for lances and Xander for swords. One cav each from the three games.

Edited by AbsoluteZer0Nova
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2 hours ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

I think it's more likely Frederick would be the axe cav unit with Camus for lances and Xander for swords. One cav each from the three games.

Considering Heroes, I definitely think Frederick will be in and using axes. They may feel like Xander takes care of Camus' character niche, though, and could instead maybe go with Abel (due to Cain getting the spotlight in TMS). At least that's the reasoning I've cooked up.

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2 hours ago, AbsoluteZer0Nova said:

I think it's more likely Frederick would be the axe cav unit with Camus for lances and Xander for swords. One cav each from the three games.

Are you forgetting the man, the myth, the 'Death was too scrubby for me' Walhart? Because it feels like everybody glosses over the villain of the second arc of Awakening in discussions.

I just want to see a throwing Axe on a horse dude

27 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Considering Heroes, I definitely think Frederick will be in and using axes. They may feel like Xander takes care of Camus' character niche, though, and could instead maybe go with Abel (due to Cain getting the spotlight in TMS). At least that's the reasoning I've cooked up.

I think it's less about 'Character' and more about the cool shit said characters could do, and while Abel is associated with Lances as of Heroes, he doesn't have the plot relevancy or extremely heavy ties to a legendary weapon that Camus has.

It also gives them them all three Cav weapons fairly easily with safe picks that have major plot importance to their games. Especially Camus with his relevance to Gaiden as well taken into account.

Edited by DaloDask
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14 hours ago, Folt said:

Samurai Warriors is a Warriors game set in the age of the Three Unifiers, and I don't believe it was a sequel/spiritual successor to anything. But the point is moot because I know for a fact that Samurai Warriors did not have 22 playable characters at launch. It had 15 unique characters and a custom character who the player could give one of three different movesets (Sword, Spear, and Naginata). Latter on, an expansion was released which had 4 more characters, bringing the roster total up to 20. I guess if you want to count the custom character movesets as separate, we would get up to 22 playable characters.

Or if you count the different custom character styles as separate which would give us 15 + 8 for a total of 23 but that's kinda cheating.

I accidentally counted Ieyasu Tokugawa, Nagamas Azai, and Lu Bu has characters, but they're just unique NPCs. My bad.

17 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

As far as characters I want, I have my obvious (and not so obvious) preferences, but at most they'll merely decide the urgency for me acquiring this game.  Like, if Oboro and Catria aren't in, I might wait a little until either DLC that has them or other FE characters I'm really clamoring for is out, or I'll get it when I have the money and nothing else I want is on the horizon.  And I wager there's probably a 50% chance that this will be the case.

I also think people are putting too much stock into the ever so flawed CYL campaign that happened much later into FE Warriors' development cycle, as well as the "importance" of dumb little memes, but whatever...

Like Blizzard said, it was "collaborative games", not "all games".  Also, if I'm remembering correctly, SW was sort of a sequel/spiritual successor to an earlier Warriors game, so technically it isn't actually a debut.  Please, any Warriors fans clarify if I'm right or wrong about this.

Regardless, I think you can be cautiously optimistic at least.  I doubt they'd mention it if it weren't a significant difference, but at the same time, this could be PR talk or some weird "technicality".  Though I think assuming it'll be something like 13 is setting your expectations lower than the threshold they've offered.  Nothing wrong with that, of course; I think that at worst just sets themselves up to be pleasantly surprised.

It's not a spiritual successor I believe. It was its own thing.

18 hours ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

To clarify, they said "most characters of any Warriors collaborative game". This only reduces it by a small amount (DW Gundam had 19 units in it's first instalment, so I believe it had the most, without dlc), but I doubt they would've made a point of noting that FEW has the most if they're only going over the cap by 1-2 characters.

I'm standing at it being 28-33 characters.

My bad. So it means there'll be at least 20 characters, which still debunks the rumor an earlier person heard.

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Just now, DaloDask said:

Are you forgetting the man, the myth, the 'Death was too scrubby for me' Walhart? Because it feels like everybody glosses over the villain of the second arc of Awakening in discussions.

I just want to see a throwing Axe on a horse dude

I think it's less about 'Character' and more about the cool shit said characters could do, and while Abel is associated with Lances as of Heroes, he doesn't have the plot relevancy or extremely heavy ties to a legendary weapon that Camus has.

It also gives them them all three fairly easily with safe picks that have major plot importance to their games. Especially Camus with his relevance to Gaiden as well taken into account.

Oh yeah, point taken. Walhart is possible, especially because he does have unique weapon. Though it would be rather interesting because Camus, Xander and Walhart are all mounted units with unique weapons and they are all antagonists (Shadow Dragon and Birthright for the former two of course) but are even obtainable as playable characters in one game or another.

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12 hours ago, DaloDask said:

I think it's less about 'Character' and more about the cool shit said characters could do, and while Abel is associated with Lances as of Heroes, he doesn't have the plot relevancy or extremely heavy ties to a legendary weapon that Camus has.

It also gives them them all three Cav weapons fairly easily with safe picks that have major plot importance to their games. Especially Camus with his relevance to Gaiden as well taken into account

Abel's always been associated with lances and Cain with swords (in every game they've both appeared in they've started with higher ranks in their respective weapons, and virtually every piece of artwork featuring them besides the old TCG has had them as their signature weapons). And remember, the game started development in 2015-- SoV was meant to just be a quickly churned-out side project during that time (development begun after Fates' completion with a fall 2016 release date).

Edited by The DanMan
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30 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Abel's always been associated with lances and Cain with swords (in every game they've both appeared in they've started with higher ranks in their respective weapons, and virtually every piece of artwork featuring them besides the old TCG has had them as their signature weapons). And remember, the game started development in 2015-- SoV was meant to just be a quickly churned-out side project during that time (development begun after Fates' completion with a fall 2016 release date).

Cain actually wields lances in TMS#FE. 

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4 minutes ago, Jave said:

Cain actually wields lances in TMS#FE. 

Said "every game they've both appeared in" to try and make clear I didn't count TMS, but now I remember Abel was a mini-boss in it.

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1 minute ago, The DanMan said:

Said "every game they've both appeared in" to try and make clear I didn't count TMS, but now I remember Abel was a mini-boss in it.

Yeah, Abel is a sidequest boss. For the record, he wields lances too. 

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