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Missed potential in the Tellius games


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Whether it be character potential or story potential. What are some things you feel the Tellius games could have handled better? (minus the blood pact, which has been beaten to death, and I think we can all agree that that should have been handle better)

For me it was Elincia in PoR. She should have played a more central role to the story imo, instead of being reduced to the typical damsel in distress. Despite how fantastic her character development was in RD, they could have done a lot more with her in PoR, and not have her be so reliant of Ike for pretty much the whole game.

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Micaiah should have been the only protagonist in Radiant Dawn.  She could have easily been the most interesting protagonist in the series in Part III, but they decided to shove her aside after Part I for some Ike glorification.  

Edited by Glaceon Sage
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Missed potential thy name is Tormod. He really should be around doing something when his best friend and the race he devoted his life to helping started going to war with each other. He relation with Sanaki might also have been fleshed out some more. 

The Black Knight would be an obvious case of missed potential but especially his relation with Greil. Path of Radiance implied there was a very bitter confict between these two. Greil said he was the one who made the Black knight this way and BK expressed joy at being able to wipe out Greil's entire family. This all disappeared rather awkwardly in the sequel where the two really didn't have a beef with each other. BK just murdered him to see if he could. On a moral level that's even worse and I don't think that was the intention the writers were going for.  

The racial conflict should have been more equal. In the games its really just the Beorc who are to blame for them never getting along and the Laguz are just their victims who show a very justified distrust to the race that keeps enslaving them, experimenting on them and otherwise tormenting them. The races aren't really equal if one is so much better on a moral level than the other. 

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5 minutes ago, Glaceon Sage said:

Micaiah should have been the only protagonist in Radiant Dawn.  She could have easily been the most interesting protagonist in the series in Part III, but they decided to shove her aside after Part I for some Ike glorification.  

I agree with this.

Ike should have played a more minor role in RD, he already had a whole game dedicated to him. Micaiah is even play up as being the main lord in part 1, and is bascially forgotten after that. Like WTF!

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On 7/3/2017 at 3:05 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Missed potential thy name is Tormod. He really should be around doing something when his best friend and the race he devoted his life to helping started going to war with each other. He relation with Sanaki might also have been fleshed out some more. 

The Black Knight would be an obvious case of missed potential but especially his relation with Greil. Path of Radiance implied there was a very bitter confict between these two. Greil said he was the one who made the Black knight this way and BK expressed joy at being able to wipe out Greil's entire family. This all disappeared rather awkwardly in the sequel where the two really didn't have a beef with each other. BK just murdered him to see if he could. On a moral level that's even worse and I don't think that was the intention the writers were going for.  

The racial conflict should have been more equal. In the games its really just the Beorc who are to blame for them never getting along and the Laguz are just their victims who show a very justified distrust to the race that keeps enslaving them, experimenting on them and otherwise tormenting them. The races aren't really equal if one is so much better on a moral level than the other. 

Strongly agree with the first part, I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I feel like Radiant Dawn should've focused on Sothe and Tormod. Their relationship is great, and Sothe's clash with Ike could have been so much better with him taking Micaiah's place as a main character. He would have been the first Thief lord, and he had a lot of potential his class and character. Instead he ended up being relegated to Micaiah's pet dog, and part 4 throws both of them away completely. I think Radiant Dawn tried to do too much. Part 2 was fine, but it didn't add anything to story. If one were to skip Part 1 and 2, the story would be the same.  

 

 

I don't think BK meant to kill Greil. He didn't seem to hate him, but was disappointed at how weak Greil had become. He's much more cruel in FE9 in comparison to FE10. He has no problem threatening Ike and Mist, and outright kills Lotz, but spares Jarod and Skrimir for some reason. Possibly trying to win Ashnard, Micaiah, Sephiran's favor respectively? Bad writing? I don't know.  

 

Also, it's stated in FE9 that the Laguz oppressed the Beorc first. Forgot exactly where though, I'll look for it if you want me to.

Edited by Køkø
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48 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The Black Knight would be an obvious case of missed potential but especially his relation with Greil. Path of Radiance implied there was a very bitter confict between these two. Greil said he was the one who made the Black knight this way and BK expressed joy at being able to wipe out Greil's entire family. This all disappeared rather awkwardly in the sequel where the two really didn't have a beef with each other. BK just murdered him to see if he could. On a moral level that's even worse and I don't think that was the intention the writers were going for.  

Don't think there was ever any emotional conflict, it's just one of those old tropes where someone's completely obsessed with fighting/dueling to the death and they're also super good at it. Greil was all about it, Zelgius was all about it, and Ike becomes all about it in RD. Competitive nature taken to its extreme.

On that note, they should've made it possible to save Zelgius by having Micaiah stop the duel (though not without some serious resistance). Would've added a good amount of depth for all three of them, fits in with the redemption theme, and provides a good Micaiah moment in a sequence that barely includes her.

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2 hours ago, Elincia said:

Micaiah is even play up as being the main lord in part 1, and is bascially forgotten after that. Like WTF!

I wish that I could forget Micaiah existed after Part 1 is done, then I could sleep better at night!

Anyway, the LEA coming back sooner is my only thing that can think of.

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3 hours ago, Glaceon Sage said:

Micaiah should have been the only protagonist in Radiant Dawn.  She could have easily been the most interesting protagonist in the series in Part III, but they decided to shove her aside after Part I for some Ike glorification.  

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. :/

Pretty much came here just to say this. Ike had no reason to be in RD. It basically ruined all the development he got in PoR and did nothing for him beyond that anyway. I'd actually argue Ike is the mary sue, despite how much people love to paint Micaiah as one.

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39 minutes ago, Ritisa said:

Pretty much came here just to say this. Ike had no reason to be in RD. It basically ruined all the development he got in PoR and did nothing for him beyond that anyway. I'd actually argue Ike is the mary sue, despite how much people love to paint Micaiah as one.

Okay, I've avoided this thread because I'm supposed to be on break from most of the forum, and I don't want to start/cause arguments.

And I still don't want to cause any arguments.

But I don't get why anyone would say that Ike shouldn't have been in RD. Outside of a big time-skip, where would it ever make sense for Ike, the biggest hero on the continent after the Mad King's War and one of the most respected people around, to never appear in a Tellius sequel? Also, you can't really call Ike a Stu when he has PoR to explain some of the things in RD.

Micaiah is the one that shouldn't have been created, imo, if IS was just going to keep the main focus on Ike. Either that, or give them equal attention please. Micaiah was indeed a missed opportunity because Yune (NOT Ike) shoves her aside by taking over her body most of the time, but I feel Ike's role in both games was absolutely fine, and that Micaiah should've just gotten an increased role, not Ike's drastically reduced. And this is coming from someone that hates Micaiah, so there's no bias for her.

I feel Elincia's role in PoR is perfectly fine too. The story is more about the history behind the beorc and laguz and Lehran's Medallion, which ties directly in with Ike's family history. Elincia's side doesn't have as much to do with it. I don't think she was a "damsel in distress" character in PoR either. She was never kidnapped or held prisoner or anything, she didn't personally need saving. She just needed to find warriors to fight for Crimea. She was a princess left all alone with no one to turn to after her family was killed and her knight escorts were killed/captured. She's not weaker because she "relied" on Ike, she's strong because she had the resolve and strength to build an army starting with the Greil Mercs and win back her country in the end. Ike even points this out himself at the end of the game! To say Elincia was just a weak damsel in distress that relied to much on others is just not true to me.

I do think Part 2 in RD could've been a little longer though. But otherwise, I don't think she was shafted in any way by any character. And this is coming from a big Elincia fan, so there's no bias against her.

But this is just my view on the matter. I'm not intending to cause an argument. Just present reasons on why I disagree with people who say Micaiah should've been the only lord or that Ike shouldn't have been in RD. These are just my views, I realize people here don't agree with them and that's fine.

Another missed opportunity in Tellius for me is Ike and Elincia's relationship. I realize that the ship hints in PoR were like 60% NoA's doing, but it sucked how it wasn't built upon any further in RD. I wish IS had seriously known about it and decided to roll with it by giving them an ending, even if it was platonic. There were other pairings that could've easily gotten endings too, like Kieran and Marcia, Aran and Laura, Rhys and Mia, etc.

And then Ike in general in RD. I might prefer RD Ike over PoR Ike design-wise, but not character-wise. Why didn't he get anymore development and grow further? Sure, he had a whole game to do that already, but that doesn't mean he can just suddenly become kind of bland in the character/development department. He has a few amusing moments and...that's really it. :(

 

Edited by Anacybele
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Hunh, is this a thread only for story stuff? It's been quite a few years since my last Tellius playthrough, but I remember gameplay things that bothered me in 9. Like how there's no indication that skill scrolls are consumed upon use, or even what those skills really do. Also Sothe's blossom skill works in a weird way in fixed mode that severely nerfs it from normal mode. I also wish the FE6 content that you unlock through the GBA link cable was tacked onto the FE7 content, rather than being inaccessible entirely. Finally, the 5 support conversation limit, I can't think of a combination of A supports that would come into conflict with each other. Granted I haven't read even a fraction of them, but I'd wager that since the team knew they'd be doing a sequel, then that means no focus on paired endings. 

But if you want to talk missed potential with characters, no need to go deeper than the lack of supports in Radiant Dawn. Perhaps if they left a few of the returning characters on the sidelines, writing supports for the full cast would have been a less daunting task.

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I've said it before and I say it again. FE10 should have been Part 1 expanded into 30 episodes. Part 2 could have been included as Trial Maps. But there was no need for Ike and the Greil Mercs to even be there. You can tell they were shoehorned in, from a story and gameplay perspective.

Also, the lack of character development in FE10 for 80% of the cast was just too much. We know very little about the Dawn Brigade or any character introduced in this game. I understand axing the traditional Support system due to the large cast, but if you're going to have Base Convos instead, why not expand more on it? It feels like they were checking boxes so that every character appears in at least one Base Convo, but nothing much after that.

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FE10 being a very rushed conclusion to the Tellius series. In my ideal scenario, the Tellius saga would be split in 3 games, one being around Ike (FE9), the other being around Micaiah and Part 1's plot (FE10) and the other being the resolution of their conflict (Part 3 + 4). But that's expecting too much.

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FE9 is fine as it is except it's a bit too easy in the non JP mode. 

FE10 has a few plot holes and at the end it's too much focussed on Ike, especially for giving him the final blow to Ashera.

The worst part of Ike is that he has no character development. He's the "Gary Stu", the protector of everything, the superhero!
Tormod describes him perfectly in 4-4: He has bulk in his muscles, but not in his brain.

Support conversations are a hit and miss. Amazing gameplaywise due to of its flexibility at cost of the character description. All these conversations are bland for the most part unless they had a (A) support in FE9. Honestly I don't mind. I like the 1x1 support system.

Edited by はたの 秦 こころ
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Hi,

Support conversations hollow, very few paired endings, only 1 for Micayah who's the 1st lord (seriously, she doesn't even have a paired ending with her own little sister!), most of the characters are enjoyable to play, but they're no more than the ghosts of ancient heroes you can recruit in Awakening from the bonus groups.

The Laguz system is awesome, controlling the transformation bar is fantastic, more exp in human form in nice, strike level boosting damage is great, but they should split it more (C-B-A-S-SS with 7/8/9 - 9/10/11 - 11/12/13 - 13/14/15 - 15/16/17 - 17/18/19, something like that) and their crit rate should also increase (from 0 to 10% for example, 0-5-10 at C-A-SS).

There is also too much difference between legendary weapons (Alondite and Ragnell with 16 damage but 1-2 range while the others have 1 range only except for the OP double bow, and the stat bonus...why put 3 luck on the lance? It's sooo daaamn useless! Your lancers have too much def to take serious hits or the ennemies have 30% crit weapons so anyway 3 luck is useless especially with the blessing that already give you 5 in every stat...).

The Laguz are way too much side characters. Their TB mechanic has improved very much but finally you will just use full time transformation in the end, so it's like "Hey! Try this new mechanic! Oh, sorry! We forgot to adapt the final chapters to this mechanic so just throw the 6 Laguz you have put 80k exp on each and use the royal Laguz instead, they are even stronger than the black knight!"

Mounted units are really really bad: Paladins are useless for most of the game since the majority of the levels they are in don't allow them to move. Plus, their max stats at every single part of their growth are trash. Falcon knights are not bad for their avoid and mobility but...hey, they hit even less than swordsmen and their crit rate is normal...so basically they can't deal any damage to late game armored units...Only Wyverns are taken ino the game balance, and they are like super predators.

Tormod is useless, he doesn't bring anything, give us Jill in the next chapter and Vika would be 1000% useless even if she has a great potential, because she is put aside for like 20 chapters after the few ones she's in. Muarim is too much of a pet for Tormod, following him like a dog and never thinking by himself. Seriously, he looks so cool! Why is he so hollow?!

Nephenee has been so much nerfed, omg! She can't even take 2 hits in the chapter she comes in against little 1st grade units! Except for swordsmen (and I'm not mentionning swordsmasters, but myrmidons) she can't survive to even 2 halberdiers level 1 in the 2nd chapter! I tried normal mode and I benched her instantly! she's sooo useless! Just put Brom on the front and give him all the experience of the part 2 (some to Marcia for her role in P3 and th rest to Haar because he's the only flying unit in P3 for the GM) he will tank without taking damage or close and he will get exp from 1st attack and fatal blow. Marshalls are slow,but they can really roll on most of the game.

Meg come underlevelled, but just try to hard level her to general or close the chapter she joins (Laguz are the best exp source of the 1st part by far). Since she won't take any crits it's really easy to do even on normal mode (never tried hard mode so I can't tell). I linked it so you can see I'm not joking. And she is by far the best general (Alondite, best speed between all generals, can max ALL her stats without any BEXP, just reset a few times when she level ups like a sh** and it's easy).

Provoke should be Gatrie's skill, not Shinon's! Why the hell would an archer provoke everyone around him?

Rolf has some weird growths for an archer, it isn't normal. Lucia isn't a mage! Why has she more magic than strength? not even playable she can't even harm a level 1 myrmidon! Tormod isn't a mercenary! He's a mage! a M-A-G-E! stop increasing your strength and start putting some points in magic! The same goes for Elincia, she has one of the best swords of the game but she hardly raises her poor starting strength, while her stats are those of a level 15 falcon knight at level 1 final class! Plus she hardly get any exp from part 2 and she's really weak when she joins in part 4! Oscar is the worst jeigan of history, if we can call him a jeigan. His growths are pure trash, even Titania's are better (even if she get nearly 0 point into def in 24 levels). Tauroneo should have more growth rate into def but he's good compared with most of the ones I've mentioned previously. Heather could be so good with just a little more def and strength!

Part 3-P is useless except for little BEXP but you could really do better without those annoying time-consuming feeding Laguz. Hey guys, stop going get suicide when your transformation's gone! And Boyd, please, your base def is even lower than Nolan's no reset def at level 1 Warrior, do something about it! At least he has some good HP...generally, GM join with a good level but their stats just su** for their level (Gatrie should have already capped his def, speed and strength at this level, but no, he's like 3 points far from each or even more! My Brom had 29 def at level 10 and speed capped! Boyd's speed is terrible for a Warrior when he joins! 18 is the speed I aim for with Nolan as a Fighter! And sometimes I get even more! Healers's stats are sooo trash! it's like they were both promoted at level 10-12 and benched after that!)

Crimean knights should not even exist in this game, since they don't bring anything to the table and they're barely playable outside the final chapters. Plus their class is trash (only Astrid has some correct stats level 60 but she's a pain in the *** to hard level, especially in normal, hard and maniac modes). Marcia is underlevelled, she suffers from the absence of Paragon given to useless or close to useless units and from her max stats really low in bulk and strength.

Sothe is useless, he has noob stats and growths for his class, I'd prefer have Heather for Jeigan, at least she has stats adapted to her class and she promotes faster (MUUUCH faster, like part 2 in normal mode or beginning of part 3 in normal mode) and when her biorythm isn't low she avoids everything even with 130+ accuracy not even promoted. Just daggers are trash until the last ones (the 13 damage throwing knife and the Baselard) plus they break in 15 fights for the toughest ones, in 10 fights for the others.

I think it's enough for now (^^) tell me what you think of it!

Meg chapitre 4 A distant voice (Facile).jpg

Meg général chap 4 a distant voice (map).jpg

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My contribution to the discussion of rewriting things:

Spoiler

I think we can agree that the Dawn Brigade could have used a few more chapters/had what we have already adjusted. Convert this designer note into 2 tutorial chapters. One where it's just Micaiah and Sothe taking on a few bandits or a few mean Begnion troops, followed by a new Escape chapter to replace the old one where Micaiah and Sothe team up with Nolan, Edward, and Leonardo. After this, add a battle where the newly formed DB gains acclaim and do some good, during which we can recruit Laura the hapless healer instead of having her responsible for a filler fetch battle. Then, after the passing of some time where the DB does good without it being seen onscreen, we get a fight which ends in the DB being captured by Jarod, whom they meet for the first time (basically combine 1-1 with 1-3 in terms of plot). Then we finally get Aran, and everything at that point onwards proceeds according to the actual ingame storyline, with maybe one extra fight under the banner of the Daein Liberation Army after Fiona joins.

Rewriting details on Part 2:

Spoiler

For Part 2, I rather liked it's brevity- it was a good transition from the intensity of Part 1 to the even more intense Part 3. It also helped flesh out Elincia and her retainers, who weren't given that much time to show their dynamics given how late they joined. The concise storyline was also solid- a rebellion told briskly and effectively; a short story that works better than many of IS's entire Emblem epics. I wouldn't deny that an extra chapter or two wouldn't be bad, nor an expansion of the size of the uprising. Ludveck needed additional Crimean noble allies- what fool does it alone? And he didn't need his men blaring his name as they went around looking for recruits, I doubt he'd be opposed to having an ally noble take the public lead while he masterminded the rebellion in the shadows, only to surface when Elincia he was certain would kneel before him.

The GMs did do a spotlight steal at the very end, and while I adore the Lucia hostage crisis as is, rewriting the Lucia situation could work (this is getting to be bit much). Have Bastian send Volke (temporarily- it's back to the Izuka search ASAP once the crisis is over) to Elincia's shadow when he catches wind of Ludveck's schemes breaking out at last. Volke saves Lucia in the gallows instead of the GMs. While Geoffrey is away, bogged down in his new Charge against a red herring noble allied to Ludveck, Ludveck strikes Elincia and is defeated in battle, like in the actual game, but, Ludveck pulls out the Lucia card before being taken away, using that card to avoid being taken away due to Elincia's hesitation. Elincia makes her faithful decision to let Lucia die, when Volke saves Lucia, Geoffrey attacks the rebels again, with their abruptly new noble leader trying to flee (possibly to western Begnion, where he has "friends" willing to host him in exile until he can either return in triumph or after negotiations with Elincia). As said leader tries to flee during this post-denouement battle, the GMs, hired at the last minute by Bastian via Volke to help Elincia, block the rebel leader's escape, allowing them screentime without quite as much flair.

Part 3 rewriting:

Spoiler

For Part 3, expand Elincia's and Micaiah's parts a bit. Failing to stop the Laguz Alliance during 3-6 and 3-7, Daein is told by the Senate to pass through Crimea and strike Gallia, which they chronologically do before the LA or Begnion can reach Crimea due to having a smaller army. Daein tries to pass through Crimea to Gallia without bothering the neutral Crimea, but inevitably fighting breaks out (playable from the CRK's perspective). Daein is deflected for now, and while Crimea warily watches it's Daein border for some time, Begnion shows up to the south as in the actual game, and being much stronger and suzerain to Crimea, is not as easily deflected in contrast to Daein. Then, chronologically during and after 3-10, an extra battle occurs (from Miccy's perspective) where Daein tries again to enter Crimea, but is suddenly turned away with the events of 3-10 resolved. The matter of the very end of Part 3 needs to be worked out better though, there was little point in passing through Daein when Geoffrey could probably defend eastern Crimea without too much difficulty- the easily traversable border seems small.

As for Ike's still extant Part 3, cut down a bit on the praise and focus on him (he is still the main playable character though), and shift him a little more into the mentor role given he is already developed. Skrimir should be shown more obviously to be the central developing protagonist, with Ranulf as the connector between him and Ike, and Tibarn being there prominently too. Skrimir does develop fairly well over Part 3 already, just add additional details to Skrimir's life and his growth, with Ike acting a little more mentor like to our Young Lion. He doesn't actually have to be playable during P3, and is pretty fine in his current roles as is.

Part 4 doesn't need too much work. The BK needs some touchups to their motivations and backstory. Micaiah needs to say more in the Tower of Guidance overall, and we need a conversation between her and Yune, the two never actually talk to each other. Make the final blow a little more equally the effort of Ike and Micaiah. Keep the 3 way route split though, I like it (particularly the Hawk Army stuff). Making Naesala playable while wiping out the Blood Pact and keeping Travant 2.0 nuanced and somewhat ambiguous would be tricky though, particularly with the betrayal and Hawk slaughter Kilvas is party to in RD. And just why and what would he do following the betrayal now? Would there even be a betrayal?

 

I would've liked more Soane and Stefan's Branded Village as I've indicated before, but it wouldn't make much sense to get much of either ingame as is. It'd be more of a developer's notes thing. Hatari could also use more detail, and I like world building so I'd take more of that everywhere if I could.

 

Supports don't really work well for RD with the Part structure really limiting availability. More Base Conversations as suggested before would work better, even if it'd be nothing more than dialogue for dialogue's sake with no gameplay benefits. But of course- why add meaningless dialogue when it's just more work for the writers? I guess RD didn't have the time and resources or its writers the willingness to do such writing.

 

19 hours ago, Køkø said:

Also, it's stated FE9 that the Laguz oppressed the Beorc first. Forgot exactly where though, I'll look for it if you want me to.

It just doesn't feel like the discrimination is portrayed equally on both sides. Laguz are felt to mostly be the victims, while Beorc are mostly felt to be the aggressors. Maybe they should've included some Beorc living in Gallia/Phoenicis or something who get discriminated against- a self-contained community at the mercy of their Laguz superiors' wills and forbidden from leaving the country due to the useful services they provide the Laguz with. They could have also kept Naesala morally ambiguous to even things more, or included an instance of Phoenicis attacking Begnion including innocents.

 

4 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Meg come underlevelled, but just try to hard level her to general or close the chapter she joins (Laguz are the best exp source of the 1st part by far). Since she won't take any crits it's really easy to do even on normal mode (never tried hard mode so I can't tell). I linked it so you can see I'm not joking. And she is by far the best general (Alondite, best speed between all generals, can max ALL her stats without any BEXP, just reset a few times when she level ups like a sh** and it's easy).

Provoke should be Gatrie's skill, not Shinon's! Why the hell would an archer provoke everyone around him?

Looking at your Meg: 103 turns. No, just no. The tedium of that grind, I can feel it. As for Shinon having Provoke- have you paid any attention to his personality? Provoke is gameplay reflecting on his tendency to be provocative disposition, just as Ulki and Janaff have Vigilance and Insight; Personal Skills of sorts before Fates ran with the idea all the way.

 

As for Elincia in PoR, I accept her role for what it is, given that from its earliest days in development, FE9 was centered on Ike, with his parents, Mist, and Sephiran all present as well. The title Afterthought Princess belongs to Hinoka, but Elincia was a later addition, not that that excuses her portrayal completely, it just makes it understandable why she isn't more proactive/central to FE9.

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4 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Muarim is too much of a pet for Tormod, following him like a dog and never thinking by himself. Seriously, he looks so cool! Why is he so hollow?!

I wouldn't really say Muarim is all that submissive to Tormod. He has independent thoughts of his own that can differ from Tormod's. He wants to give himself in despite Tormod obviously being against such a thing, scolds Tormod when he pushes himself and  tries driving Tormod away in a base conversation. 

Though there really is something to Muarim being a bit of a pet. New material reveals that was what Muarim was to Tormod's parents so that past probably rubbed off on him to some degree. 

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Meg doesn't need 103 turns in one chapter to become useful in FE10.
She's usable in easy and normal, yes, and even in hard mode with less effort than you did.
However it's not really worth the time and effort since you have other units in the DB who can do their job well with much less effort.

This example shows impressively FE10's main gameplay issue: The poor balance of the unit's availibility.
Too many units are unusable because they don't join with the required level / bases or are off for too long and won't be autoleveled after that (Tormod, Lucia, Geoffrey...).

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On 7/3/2017 at 7:40 PM, Rapier said:

FE10 being a very rushed conclusion to the Tellius series. In my ideal scenario, the Tellius saga would be split in 3 games, one being around Ike (FE9), the other being around Micaiah and Part 1's plot (FE10) and the other being the resolution of their conflict (Part 3 + 4). But that's expecting too much.

I agree with this 100%.  The first time I played RD I was shocked at how long the game was and felt it should have been broken in to at least 2 games with more character development.

I feel like Sanaki and Micaiah both need more background and I would have liked it if the whole story of how Micaiah ended up in Daein was explained and what happened to their parents.

Tormod's group being missing from the Laguz army doesn't make any sense at all and they should have been in the thick of those battles.

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I really would have liked if in Part 4 everyone reunited in Sienne in an actual chapter rather than Caineghis soloing the map off screen. It would have made for a bit of a book end with the game having city chapters near the start and end. Fighting in a city isn't something we really see a lot of in the series and all prior depictions were sort of limited in scope due to the spritemap. It could also be a really big map where you get to choose what reinforcements you get (as the other armies arrive) similar to the Serenes Forest chapter in the previous games. Make the end game Part 5 for a more rounded number (and to get rid of that Endgame Part 1, 2, 3 strangeness) and we're golden.

Oh and having glanced at the expanded Japaneses script they definitely missed some stuff with Sephrian's memory sequences in the localisation. The moment when he decides everyone just has to die seems so much cooler in the original with a big barrage of voices and him actually using that Dias Reyson mentioned to kill a group of people.

Also sign me up for wanting Micaiah's plot to be expanded into her own game and giving Elincia a bit more backbone in POR.

Edited by Jotari
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Endings for many characters were disappointing.  I realize some just go about their daily lives but things like Ike disappearing without a trace despite the Greil Mercenaries still being active to the point that Titania was still the deputy commander never made much sense to me. 

Black Knights motives are a bit weird to be honest.  I can perfectly understand wanting to surpass his teacher and the fact that he was working for Daein made him the bad guy (up till there I'm good in PoR).  But then in RD its portrayed like oh he was not that bad a guy all along...sure he went as far to kill his teacher leaving Ike and Mist without parents but he was "honorable" about it and just misunderstood.  At that point it got a little too nonsensical to me.  I guess if you were going for him being the epitome of a knight with fighting to the death, honor, chivalry sure but I didn't really get that feeling.

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Storywise, I regard Tellius as the high-point of the series. And anything I can throw out in terms of "they could have done that better" or "this was a missed opportunity" is just me being nitpicky. The games built a remarkably fleshed out setting where every country had its own history and flavor, with a dynamic morally-ambiguous conflict and highly developed factions-within-factions on every side.

Gameplay wise however, I feel they cut a lot of corners because they were so laser-focused on making their maps tell a story, they at some level forgot they were also making a game.

Some of those giant-hordes-of-green-units and "you're fighting nothing but cats and tigers lol have fun" maps could have used a bit more polish.

And I get that as a matter of plot the Laguz Royals are supposed to be hilariously overpowered--but holy hell--they could have toned it down just a bit. 

To this day: Tibarn is probably the most gamebreakingly stupid unit in the history of the franchise.  

Edited by Shoblongoo
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Micaiah and Pelleas  aside pretty much all new characters introduced in Radiant Dawn where missed potential. Some more effort was put into Nolan, Leonardo and Edward, but even then we still had to learn about their past from other sources. Other characters like Vika, Kyza and Aran had to make due with maybe one or two base conversations.

Gameplay-wise i'd say the third tiers where a wast of potential. The idea sounds cool on paper, but they essentially just nerfed the second tiers into the ground and gave the third tier units an instant kill move. Only the Marksman class felt like they where unique.

 

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Oh yeah, I think they missed a pretty major opportunity by not revealing the prince of Daein and Black Dragon stuff earlier in Path of Radiance. I played Radiant Dawn and hearing about how Ashnard treated his wife and kid made him and his situation as a villain much more interesting. But it's barely explained in Path of Radiance and some how manages to simultaneously feel tacked on and fully planned out. I think they sacrificed playing their hand sooner in that regard just to give Ena and arc with an end game conclusion but the story of our main villain using a baby as bait and then abandoning it after making dragon slaves is much more interesting. Even a reference to Pelleas' existence in Path of Radiance would be nice (wait, was Ashnard's son called Pelleas or is that actually the name of the orphan boy? Must be the former giving Almedha calls him that unless the baby didn't have a name yet when it was abandoned).

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37 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Even a reference to Pelleas' existence in Path of Radiance would be nice (wait, was Ashnard's son called Pelleas or is that actually the name of the orphan boy? Must be the former giving Almedha calls him that unless the baby didn't have a name yet when it was abandoned).

The infant probably didn't have a name. It clearly wasn't Soren otherwise Almedha would have recognized it. I don't think Ashnard cared enough to give his son a name, and if Almedha gave him one, she probably stopped using it once her son was taken from her. She probably calls Pelleas Pelleas because it's the name he grew up with and she'd rather be kind and call him that than force a new name on him- his royalty revelation is enough for him already.

I'll guess Almedha gives birth, Ashnard see the child looks like an ordinary Beorc and that Almedha is now powerless and thus finds little use for either. He then shoves them away somewhere and gives them just enough care to keep them alive for some reason (maybe he hopes something useful will come of them). Within what I'd imagine is a year of Almedha giving birth, Rajaion and his cohorts find Almedha. And for Ashnard finds the idea of having Red Dragons and a royal Black one under his control fascinatingly powerful, so he rips his son out of Almedha's arms and uses him as a hostage. Rajaion's group is captured and drugged (random bandits have the feral drug in PoR C14, so it has to be rather commonplace), and then Ashnard out of a loathing for Almedha chucks his useless child aside.

Why the child ends up in the care of an old woman, I don't know, I would've thought Ashy would have chopped the kid to bits. But his hatred may not have been so strong as to want that, if they lived- he didn't care; if they died of disease, hunger or exposure, oh well. Ashnard was King of Daein at this point I think- he came to power in 627, PoR starts in 645 and Soren is ~16 at the time- so he might have had a grunt take the baby and abandon it somewhere, where the old woman discovers it.

As for what happens to Almedha- Dragon Laguz look very Beorc-like, it wouldn't have been much of a challenge to hide her origins and blend in. Even if Ashnard didn't give her a tiny stipend in a remote royal estate to live on, she could easily have run off to a convent and spent two decades there- for it's the classic medieval abode of women whose lives are ruined.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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8 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The infant probably didn't have a name. It clearly wasn't Soren otherwise Almedha would have recognized it. I don't think Ashnard cared enough to give his son a name, and if Almedha gave him one, she probably stopped using it once her son was taken from her. She probably calls Pelleas Pelleas because it's the name he grew up with and she'd rather be kind and call him that than force a new name on him- his royalty revelation is enough for him already.

I'll guess Almedha gives birth, Ashnard see the child looks like an ordinary Beorc and that Almedha is now powerless and thus finds little use for either. He then shoves them away somewhere and gives them just enough care to keep them alive for some reason (maybe he hopes something useful will come of them). Within what I'd imagine is a year of Almedha giving birth, Rajaion and his cohorts find Almedha. And for Ashnard finds the idea of having Red Dragons and a royal Black one under his control fascinatingly powerful, so he rips his son out of Almedha's arms and uses him as a hostage. Rajaion's group is captured and drugged (random bandits have the feral drug in PoR C14, so it has to be rather commonplace), and then Ashnard out of a loathing for Almedha chucks his useless child aside.

Why the child ends up in the care of an old woman, I don't know, I would've thought Ashy would have chopped the kid to bits. But his hatred may not have been so strong as to want that, if they lived- he didn't care; if they died of disease, hunger or exposure, oh well. Ashnard was King of Daein at this point I think- he came to power in 627, PoR starts in 645 and Soren is ~16 at the time- so he might have had a grunt take the baby and abandon it somewhere, where the old woman discovers it.

As for what happens to Almedha- Dragon Laguz look very Beorc-like, it wouldn't have been much of a challenge to hide her origins and blend in. Even if Ashnard didn't give her a tiny stipend in a remote royal estate to live on, she could easily have run off to a convent and spent two decades there- for it's the classic medieval abode of women whose lives are ruined.

No, the prince's name most likely wasn't Soren but I find it quite possible that it was named Pelleas, was abandoned and then called Soren by it's new caregiver. And likewise taking the name of the prince alongside the reputation is something I find to be more than likely. I feel if Almedha's son did have a name that wasn't Pelleas she would have used it at least once. But in the end I guess we'll never know.

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