Denomon3144

Do you want an avatar & S-rank supports? (Poll)

  

397 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want an avatar?

    • Yes.
      203
    • No.
      194
  2. 2. Do you want S-rank supports?

    • Yes.
      261
    • No.
      136


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

If these didn't exist, FE would be dead.

People actually believe this. :lol: By that logic Heroes 1.0 and Echoes were dumb moves by IS. Calling them popular titles seems kinda wrong, am I right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found it qutie interesting seeing what people do and do not like about Avatars and S Supports. I think both could be included if they weren't just reiterated from previous games.

Thoughts on the avatar:
I noticed (and agreed with) a few people mentioning Mark as a nice avatar unit with little influence over the plot. I like the idea of being the tactician (since it actually ties in with you playing the tactical fire emblem game). While I did enjoy playing as Robin, I think removing the tactician as a unit and just directing the battle avoids the risk of having a Mary Sue. I think their inclusion to the plot could be handled simply as the advising tactician to the main lord character. I would definitely still enjoy being able to customize the look of the avatar. I also think they could include the avatar in a lot of base conversations with rest of the cast, without having to create a ridiculous amount of support conversations with them. 
My first Fire Emblem game was Path of Radiance, and I remember in my first playthrough I let Rhys die by accident and I believe Titania had special dialogue about how my actions caused his death. I think characters could react to the Avatar based on stuff like that. They could really trust the avatar's judgment if they don't mess up a lot, or be really upset if the Avatar let someone they have a higher support with die or get hurt (casual). If there were decisions presented during battles, units could react to the avatars decisions, like even if it's just wishing the avatar pushed them a little further to save all the villages from bandits, or you saved all the villages but someone died or got hurt, them questioning if it was really worth it).
Also I remember finding it really weird in PoR that Soren was the tactician but I was directing the battles before and after he joined.

Thoughts on S supports:
Nothing about S supports tells me it has to be a romantic support. It was just a higher rank than A, which we've seen with weapons. 
My biggest problem with S supports is the children. They made sense in the plot (even if time travel is a bleh plot device), but they tended to outshine their parents, and grinding for skill inheritance was a little lackluster. Then along came Fates, and the deep realms made absolutely no sense to me. But they also introduced the Partner Seals and Friendship Seals. With children who felt so out of place, and another interesting use for S supports, I got to thinking they could treat S supports like the old A supports (with rivalries, bittersweet sentiments, friendships, romances, etc) and just offer some sort of inheritance at the S rank, like perhaps a class or a skill. It would make the characters more customisable than in the old games, but wouldn't risk having them be overshadowed by their children. 
I would also like limited S supports, but also fair supports. Fates drove me nuts with characters like Reina (whom I loved). She joined earlier than several characters with full sets of supports, but only had Corrin. Heck, she didn't even support Orochi, Mikoto's other main retainer. They also did a doozie with Flora and Jakob, and a lot of other characters (Scarlet, Yukimura, etc.). Even in Awakening, Say'ri, Tiki, Basilio and Flavia and Anna all lacked decent support options. Basilio and Flavia could easily have supported each other. It just made me sad because I never really wanted to include these characters on my teams because of it, even when I really liked them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/26/2018 at 3:11 PM, fOrEiGn sOUl said:

People actually believe this. :lol: By that logic Heroes 1.0 and Echoes were dumb moves by IS. Calling them popular titles seems kinda wrong, am I right?

Echoes was a dumb move, yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, no avatars, Robin is the only one I liked and even he was somewhat close to pushing it in the last chapters in his game.

That's not to say that lord characters are perfect either of course but avatars just as a concept feel a lot more pander like so I care less for them.

S-supports I'm fine with assuming they'll give us less (3-4 for every character instead of 8-9?) so the few we do have make more sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More options for the male option please a little peeve only female got accessories in Fates I'm sure they'll get stuff this time around like headbands and stuff bring back the monocle, the ninja mouth mask and better hair choices!

Marriage will obviously stay as is many option many choices of course my unit will have the most!

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3.4.2018 at 9:31 PM, Dragonage2ftw said:

Echoes was a dumb move, yes.

Echoes is proof that IS hasn't lost touch with creating games that feel refreshing and their abbilitiy to come up with new game mechanics. Furthermore the presentation is of the best the series has and that's all on 3DS. It's the best sign that FE won't become a Loopfest of blatant fanservice you wish for (or you stick with Heroes I guess).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, fOrEiGn sOUl said:

Echoes is proof that IS hasn't lost touch with creating games that feel refreshing and their abbilitiy to come up with new game mechanics. Furthermore the presentation is of the best the series has and that's all on 3DS. It's the best sign that FE won't become a Loopfest of blatant fanservice you wish for (or you stick with Heroes I guess).

It still did had fanservice in some areas also Heroes is a obvious sign its still big and will obviously continue when it wasn't a problem to begin with.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a huge fan of games that allow the player to have a self representing avatar, so yes to Avatars. However, we've already had S-Rank + Avatar in Awakening and Fates, so I'll pass on that.  I like the way FE12 handled the Avatar, where he/she was a citizen intent on becoming a knight. It's simple, but it works. (For me at least)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FE12 type of avatar who has little impact on the plot, but better writing or silent with coversation choices. I know people give Kris a lot crap, but he was well implemented. At most, make him a recruit. Gameplay is the most important aspect of the Avatar so they should focus on that

The avatar is an observer, he isn't supposed to impact the story in any major way nor be heavily involved in the plot. The plot is meant for the lords and antagonist

There really hasn't been a overall good avatar. Each one has their flaws. Kris is a Marth worshipper, Robin is a self-insert who receives constant praise and Corrin a Mary Sue at it's worst

I don't wanna give Robin a lot of crap, but he's a mistake in the sense that IS used him as a base for Corrin. They channeled the negative aspects of Robin into Corrin. Robin is okay, but he's a bad influence for FE developers when it comes to making avatars. And a carbon copy of Robin isn't really gonna cut it if they still want to make an avatar like him

The recent avatars suffer from being a Mary Sue and a glorified self-insert. If they want to keep the self-insert part of the avatar then they need to stop with all the constant praising.

S-supports are okay. Children not, unless there's a time skip. They should focus their resources into developing better support conversations as well as making playersexuals mingle and marry with the other characters, not catering to the daddy/mommy fetish in the more recent games that lead to some characters having lesser supports as well as lackluster supports for some

Edited by silveraura25

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like S Ranks that aren't marriage proposals. Just an extra fourth support that leads to higher bonuses and a paired ending.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Echoes is the lack of a robust support system and child units to build removes much of the replay value Awakening and Fates offered. Units in general are less customizable, and the game lacked any sort of path branching in the storyline (just a couple unit choices that don't fundamentally change anything).

It's not a bad game by any means (lord no), but understand the angle us Awakening and Fates fans come from when we play Echoes. While most longtime FE fans feel like it's a return to form, us newer fans instead feel like we got a much smaller experience.

But, Echoes' status as a remake of the series black sheep of sorts puts it in a strange position since I really don't know if Awakening/Fates players were even meant to be the intended audience, or if it was just some huge experiment to gauge fan reaction for the next game, after all.

I still stand by the fact that I want supports in the Awakening/Fates style, but could do without the eugenics game child units bring. I'm split on the avatar since I think Robin's 100x better designed as a character and as a unit, but just give me freedom on unit builds. S-ranks/A+ ranks open up reclassing and skill gathering options that make for some powerful, personalized units. That's what I want, and that's something Echoes didn't have much of.

 

Heroes is an exploitative gacha machine leeching money from new and long-time fans in order to continue to stand a chance againt terribly designed powercreep from far richer/luckier players. Deleted that shit months ago. Recommend you all do that, too. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Altrosa said:

Heroes is an exploitative gacha machine leeching money from new and long-time fans in order to continue to stand a chance againt terribly designed powercreep from far richer/luckier players. Deleted that shit months ago. Recommend you all do that, too. 

Good to hear, never had any interest in that game to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Altrosa said:

Heroes is an exploitative gacha machine leeching money from new and long-time fans in order to continue to stand a chance againt terribly designed powercreep from far richer/luckier players. Deleted that shit months ago. Recommend you all do that, too. 

 

Not if you've the restrain to be Free to Play. 

And there is no real Player vs. Player, the game is much more a single player experience.

All you have is Voting Gauntlets- which are noncompetitive when you add in the multiplier making the winner come down to pure chance. The Arena too pits you against other players' units- but not against the players themselves. Unless you want to be at the top of the Arena or Tempest Trials, a mostly superficial thing, you have no urge to compete.

What instead you have is the freedom to take characters you like and favor and raise them and use them as you wish. Anyone can be perfectly usable if you're not obsessed with being the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/8/2018 at 8:30 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not if you've the restrain to be Free to Play. 

And there is no real Player vs. Player, the game is much more a single player experience.

All you have is Voting Gauntlets- which are noncompetitive when you add in the multiplier making the winner come down to pure chance. The Arena too pits you against other players' units- but not against the players themselves. Unless you want to be at the top of the Arena or Tempest Trials, a mostly superficial thing, you have no urge to compete.

What instead you have is the freedom to take characters you like and favor and raise them and use them as you wish. Anyone can be perfectly usable if you're not obsessed with being the best.

.... Units that you need to roll gacha machines for and unless said character is just "better" (4/5 star and has base access to certain skills and weapons) you need to grind the living hell out of everything to earn anything to empower those characters. Which involves using the gacha mechanic to earn other units feed skills into the units you want and to burn the rest off for feathers to raise those same fav units's star ranking. Yes, the game gives tons of orbs, it's limited and gachas are luck based. You are unquestionably at a gameplay disadvantage from those who buy orbs to pour into the gachas. Free to play, pay to win faster.

And the game is built on us rolling over and over and over for those personal fav units in the first place.

Yes, there is a matter of self-control, but any game that encourages players to spend unlimited amounts of money to improve their game, either competitive or not, is a shameful piece of garbage. 

The art is lovely and it's great that IS is using Heroes as a vehicle to introduce older games' cast, but don't waste your time and money on very clearly gross monetization schemes.

 

Anyway, this is a thread on marriage and avatars, not opinions on Heroes. Sorry, I went way off the rails.

Edited by Altrosa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Registered just to vote.

Avatar: Yes

S-supports: Yes

My first FE, was Blazing Blade, and I was mistook the series thinking that all FE have a some sort of Avatar. I was dissapointed. But, still. Likes the series.

Some years later, I able to play in FE4. And... That was magnificent. FE4 become my favorite game in series all the time, Marriages, 2nd Generation gameplay. Almost everything I likes was in FE4 (exept Avatar, since he wasnt there). Then some years later, I did play in remake of Mystery of the Emblems. Which becomes second favorite game in series.

And... years later, Awekening come out. And I was transformed from Fire Emblem fan into Waifu Emblem fan. Awekening become my first fav game, and FE4 placed second. I was really sold. Avatar for selfinsert. Romance, Marriages, everything I love was in FE:A. Although, childs in both Awekening and Fates poorly developed, and thus, not liked by me.

So, right now, I'm still hoping for FE4 Remake or new game with well developed second gen, and along with avatar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Altrosa said:

.... Units that you need to roll gacha machines for and unless said character is just "better" (4/5 star and has base access to certain skills and weapons) you need to grind the living hell out of everything to earn anything to empower those characters. Which involves using the gacha mechanic to earn other units feed skills into the units you want and to burn the rest off for feathers to raise those same fav units's star ranking. Yes, the game gives tons of orbs, it's limited and gachas are luck based. You are unquestionably at a gameplay disadvantage from those who buy orbs to pour into the gachas. Free to play, pay to win faster.

And the game is built on us rolling over and over and over for those personal fav units in the first place.

Yes, there is a matter of self-control, but any game that encourages players to spend unlimited amounts of money to improve their game, either competitive or not, is a shameful piece of garbage. 

The art is lovely and it's great that IS is using Heroes as a vehicle to introduce older games' cast, but don't waste your time and money on very clearly gross monetization schemes.

 

Anyway, this is a thread on marriage and avatars, not opinions on Heroes. Sorry, I went way off the rails.

The only thing that matters is if you have fun playing the game (and you're not going bankrupt). The games perfectly playable without spending a single cent, if you want to you can spend money to get better stuff and if that is actively increasing your level of joy, the there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, so long as your spending within your means. Yeah it's more that possible to get addicted to these things and drain your back account in which case you should probably call it quits as it's not healthy or happy, but it's also more than possible to play it and only spend a bit of money or nothing at all and no one should be ashamed of that.

(when I say you in this post I more mean you impersonal is one)

Edited by Jotari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how a game that comes with an asterisk reading "More fun the more money you spend!" doesn't set off an alarm for people.

I find issue with, "Players need to have self control," and not "Devs shouldn't exploit the players that don't/can't for whatever reason." It being playable is setting the bar pretty freaking low. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes and no. I need creative freedoms to making a total-customized unit for the protagonist's force as an avatar, but the avatar must be an "empty unit" : avatar must never have any 'character' nor any influences to the storylines. Let the avatar works as a silent common unit without mentioned by entire characters including the Lord or enemy's. Avatar's unit portrait were able to be customized, but all of them must have one equation: their eyes must invisibly covered by hair's shadows, by veils (like the Summoner), or half-covered face by their own helmets (as commonly generic units in any Japanese games). The avatar must have no personalities nor any dialogues (including in-battle dialogues / dead quotes). The avatar unit must slighly stronger than other allied units because the avatar must never have any support. Let the "official" characters has their S-support, but the avatar must NOT! Let avatar works as a guardian shadow of the protagonist's force and doesn't matter if the avatar needs to be deployed or not. The avatar must never to have their own prologue nor endings and even doesn't effects any storylines or gameplays if the avatar falls on battlefield.

Edited by illegal knight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Avatar: No. IS has failed over and over in making a compelling avatar. I'd rather refuse it altogether than ask them to make it again, and hope it does well. I would only be willing to accept an avatar if they aren't a combat unit, and cannot support anyone.

S-Ranks: No. I'd prefer there to be no marriage or children, and limited supports. With those in place, there's no reason to deviate from the traditional C -> A system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well from the new trailer Avatar: yes!

I'm obviously expecting marriage but probably no kids this time around but IS can surprise me.

Edited by Blade Lord Lyn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, it looks like the whole "Teacher" is our avatar, and referring to them as such is the work around to implement voice acting. Good stuff.

Formations seem to have replaced pair-up, so marriage is still in the air (supports might be a wholly different system, might be scrapped, still dunno.) I want marriage, but, if I had to choose one or the other, I'd pick having an avatar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I love playing matchmaker with my armies in previous games I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want romantic supports just you know I do miss platonic opposite sex supports as well. Do NOT want child units this time around I don’t hate them just we do not need a repeat of hyperbolic time chamber babies. Or rather if children units do return I want a game with generational timeskips again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.