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What characters do you want?


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5 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

Subaki happens to be the only male Pegasus rider, which could be enough to get him a spot.  The Whitewings have the triangle attack, which is unique to them among the rep'd games.  Virion is somehow notable enough to have made it to TMS and be the first summon ever in FEH.  Jeorge has Parthia (probably).  Gordin is the first archer of the series.

I don't doubt that they can make all the movesets relatively unique (in fact, I brought up how their movesets could be made unique).  Potential for a moveset isn't the issue here, weapon diversity is.  Robin will have the coverage on the weapon triangle as Leo, with the main difference being movement type (they've mentioned horse-mounted characters would be generally more mobile).

Like I said, I'd prefer they balance the available weapon choices, even if they have to pass over some main characters to do so, because that is the reason they gave for not spanning the series.  I want them to actually stick to what they gave as a reason, even if it means some of the characters I'd like to play from the games they chose don't make it.

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Using your example, we'd have:

- 3 Axes (Camilla, Lissa, Frederick)

- 5 Tomes (Linde/Merric, Robin, Tharja, Elise, Leo)

- 5 - 6 Lances (Camus, Cordelia, Hinoka, Azura, Hardin and maybe Caeda if they don't give her swords)

- 1 Dragonstone (Tiki, maybe Grima!Robin falls here?)

- 8 - 9 Swords (Marth, Chrom, Lucina, Ryoma, Xander, Corrin, Lianna, Rowan, Gangrel, and maybe Caeda if they don't give her lances)

- 2 Bows (Sakura, Takumi)

Say there's a map where all enemies are Lances.  Almost a third of the cast is then weak to the entire map, while only 3 out of the 25-ish characters are strong against that map (assuming Tome, Dragonstone, and Bow are neutral).  They could force the issue by putting Tomes in with Axes, Dragonstones in with Swords, and Bows in with Lances, but that doesn't match up with any FE game I know of.  Fates had Tomes with Swords, and Bows with Axes, but that makes a full 13 characters minimum (almost half the roster) weak to this hypothetical Lance map, and only 5 strong against it.  That's not good if they want the weapon triangle to be a consideration for what characters you pick for a map.

This also gives us all of one possible armored unit, Hardin, and only if he's from FE3/FE12, which is not one of the games they mentioned pulling from.  He was a Cavalier in FE1/FE11.  Guess armorslayers, heavy lances and hammers don't have much of a special effect anymore.

Subaki being male isn't that big of a deal, and it certainly won't be the reason why he would ever get into a Warriors game. Gender alone won't get you places. Caeda is the main Pegasus Knight, the face of them. We certainly aren't getting her and all of the Whitewings. Virion is the first Heroes summon and he did get into TMS but he isn't very popular, and isn't very noteworthy/memorable compared to the other archers. I left out Gordin and Jeorge because I think they stand a (albeit small imho) chance.

In my honest opinion, it's a bit late to balance out the weapon choices when they've already announced 8 sword characters. They could have fixed it if Rowan/Lianna used say an axe and a bow, some weapon besides a sword. I'm not sure if they're worried about having all of the weapon types be balanced in quantity, I think they're more focused on having enough characters of each type. They've kind of already shot themselves in the foot because I don't think we'll be seeing like 6 axes to make up for there being 8 swords.

And for that lance map, while a HUGE chunk of the roster would be at a disadvantage, I don't think the weapon triangle would have that much of an effect. It still certainly won't be favorable, but it won't hinder you in a major way. I'm probably wrong though since I haven't seen much gameplay footage.

And honestly, those characters were something I just said for examples. Just brainstorming. Hardin isn't an armored unit in FE1/11, you're right, but he was just a character that came to mind at the time. Replace him with Draug. I said Grima and Gangrel in case they wanted villains (plus Gangrel as a spellblade since he has the Levin sword sounds cool). And the roster may be bigger than the characters I speculated on, who knows. That's just what I personally would hope it would come out to be. I don't see many armored units because there's not many notable ones (who does Awakening have? Kellam? Kjelle? Fates has Effie and Benny and I'm not sure on SD). I'd much rather the weapon triangle be lopsided on swords because there's not much of a reason to not have all the main characters of the games they're focusing on. The royals are all unique in weapons. While the roster would have three axes, once again it may turn out to be bigger than what we all think. The way I see it, we shouldn't have to miss out on main characters because they wanted to include 8 characters who used a sword so they have to include more axes and lances to balance it out. This is my honest opinion, but if they were really worried (not really as in honestly but really as in extensively) about having too many swords, once again, Rowan and Lianna wouldn't use one.

Regardless, if we have around 25 characters, maybe 24, maybe 26, we know that 8 use a sword. That's about a third of the roster. Nothing can change that. If we want swords, axes, and lances to all have the same amount of characters, in that roster of 24, it'd just be 8 swords/8 axes/8 lances. There'd be no room for Robin (who's already confirmed) and any archers or Tiki, or Leo (who's hinted at), etc. Since nothing can truly change the roster's overwhelming weakness to lances, you might as well include all of the Fates royals for weapon diversity (1 flying axe 1 foot lance 1 flying lance 1 bow 1 cleric/bow 1 tome 1 tome/cleric 1 foot sword 1 horse sword 1 manakete sword. That's a lot of diversity!) instead of trying to balance out the quantity of each different kind of weapon. Too late for that. That's how I see it.

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6 minutes ago, Pokechu said:

Subaki being male isn't that big of a deal, and it certainly won't be the reason why he would ever get into a Warriors game. Gender alone won't get you places. Caeda is the main Pegasus Knight, the face of them. We certainly aren't getting her and all of the Whitewings. Virion is the first Heroes summon and he did get into TMS but he isn't very popular, and isn't very noteworthy/memorable compared to the other archers. I left out Gordin and Jeorge because I think they stand a (albeit small imho) chance.

Just noting that Virion was the 8th most popular male in the Awakening Poll 

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html

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Just now, Jedi said:

Just noting that Virion was the 8th most popular male in the Awakening Poll 

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html

I knew that would come up. I know in Japan he's pretty popular I assume but he didn't even break the top 100 in the Heroes poll, he got 173rd place. His popularity may have declined or he might just not be popular in the U.S., but I honestly haven't seen any fans of him. It's 99% just me though so I shouldn't let my personal experiences get into my reasoning, but that 173rd place in the Heroes poll is still kind of telling, even if the poll isn't too reliable.

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7 minutes ago, Pokechu said:

I knew that would come up. I know in Japan he's pretty popular I assume but he didn't even break the top 100 in the Heroes poll, he got 173rd place. His popularity may have declined or he might just not be popular in the U.S., but I honestly haven't seen any fans of him. It's 99% just me though so I shouldn't let my personal experiences get into my reasoning, but that 173rd place in the Heroes poll is still kind of telling, even if the poll isn't too reliable.

Thats fair as well, although I will note that Koei-Tecmo tends to focus more on the Japanese side of things when it comes to Warriors related polls (probably because Warriors stuff is much more well regarded in Japan), but you raise a good point with Heroes, although it might just be partly that the pool is so much larger or what have you. 

Both have their merits, all we can do is wait and see haha.

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Just now, Jedi said:

Thats fair as well, although I will note that Koei-Tecmo tends to focus more on the Japanese side of things when it comes to Warriors related polls, but you raise a good point with Heroes, although it might just be partly that the pool is so much larger or what have you. 

Both have their merits, all we can do is wait and see haha.

True! You have a point, especially after the last interview where it was confirmed IS showed the popularity polls to KT and requested some characters. The pool is significantly larger so that may have played a part as well. At least there's only two months until we find out! :lol:

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17 minutes ago, Pokechu said:

Subaki being male isn't that big of a deal, and it certainly won't be the reason why he would ever get into a Warriors game. Gender alone won't get you places. Caeda is the main Pegasus Knight, the face of them. We certainly aren't getting her and all of the Whitewings. Virion is the first Heroes summon and he did get into TMS but he isn't very popular, and isn't very noteworthy/memorable compared to the other archers. I left out Gordin and Jeorge because I think they stand a (albeit small imho) chance.

In my honest opinion, it's a bit late to balance out the weapon choices when they've already announced 8 sword characters. They could have fixed it if Rowan/Lianna used say an axe and a bow, some weapon besides a sword. I'm not sure if they're worried about having all of the weapon types be balanced in quantity, I think they're more focused on having enough characters of each type. They've kind of already shot themselves in the foot because I don't think we'll be seeing like 6 axes to make up for there being 8 swords.

And for that lance map, while a HUGE chunk of the roster would be at a disadvantage, I don't think the weapon triangle would have that much of an effect. It still certainly won't be favorable, but it won't hinder you in a major way. I'm probably wrong though since I haven't seen much gameplay footage.

And honestly, those characters were something I just said for examples. Just brainstorming. Hardin isn't an armored unit in FE1/11, you're right, but he was just a character that came to mind at the time. Replace him with Draug. I said Grima and Gangrel in case they wanted villains (plus Gangrel as a spellblade since he has the Levin sword sounds cool). And the roster may be bigger than the characters I speculated on, who knows. That's just what I personally would hope it would come out to be. I don't see many armored units because there's not many notable ones (who does Awakening have? Kellam? Kjelle? Fates has Effie and Benny and I'm not sure on SD). I'd much rather the weapon triangle be lopsided on swords because there's not much of a reason to not have all the main characters of the games they're focusing on. The royals are all unique in weapons. While the roster would have three axes, once again it may turn out to be bigger than what we all think. The way I see it, we shouldn't have to miss out on main characters because they wanted to include 8 characters who used a sword so they have to include more axes and lances to balance it out. This is my honest opinion, but if they were really worried (not really as in honestly but really as in extensively) about having too many swords, once again, Rowan and Lianna wouldn't use one.

Regardless, if we have around 25 characters, maybe 24, maybe 26, we know that 8 use a sword. That's about a third of the roster. Nothing can change that. If we want swords, axes, and lances to all have the same amount of characters, in that roster of 24, it'd just be 8 swords/8 axes/8 lances. There'd be no room for Robin (who's already confirmed) and any archers or Tiki, or Leo (who's hinted at), etc. Since nothing can truly change the roster's overwhelming weakness to lances, you might as well include all of the Fates royals for weapon diversity (1 flying axe 1 foot lance 1 flying lance 1 bow 1 cleric/bow 1 tome 1 tome/cleric 1 foot sword 1 horse sword 1 manakete sword. That's a lot of diversity!) instead of trying to balance out the quantity of each different kind of weapon. Too late for that. That's how I see it.

First, I do think that having 8 swords shown so far means that we have more than 24-26 characters, mostly because they've asked us to be patient with the fact that mostly swords were upload.  'Nothing can truly change the roster's overwhelming weakness to lances' except, you know, including more axes (and bows if they get thrown in with axes like fates).  The fact that they've put emphasis on the weapon triangle in interviews, but have still revealed 8 swords, is the main reason I think 24-26 would be too conservative.

Second, KT is aware of the hubbub surrounding their decision and 'too many swords'.  As per interviews, this happened internally as well, before it was announced.  While I don't doubt the roster will be weighted towards swords (FE as a whole is weighted towards swords, just look at FEH), I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the PR speak wasn't just lip service.  If it isn't lip service, that means they made an effort to balance the available weapons.  If we assume Tome/Bow/Dstone are neutral, the roster could be roughly split into 4 weapon types with those three falling in the fourth category.

They have used weapon choice as an example of strategic decision making in the game.  You send a sword to fight axes because he's good at fighting axes.  Having a map where almost a third of the roster is disadvantaged but only an eighth of the roster is advantaged is bad design.  If they want the weapon triangle to be a core mechanic for FEW that separates it from other Warriors titles, they need to balance the weapon diversity.  Otherwise, the game will get bad press ('too many swords lol'), might not sell as well as it could have, and then they won't be able to make the sequel they want to that would bring in other games of the series.

Third, on Subaki specifically, what if KT wants to have a male and female rep for as many classes as possible (they did say they were looking for representatives for classes)?  Subaki, Severa/Selena, and Jakob's chances increase significantly in that specific instance because they are the opposite gender that their class normally is.  Jakob is a promoted Troubadour and Subaki is a male Pegasus rider, which were female only classes up until Fates (though Jakob as a Troubadour rep is stretching a bit).  Severa is the second female Mercenary in the series, and Malice doesn't seem to be in consideration due to coming from FE3 (FE12 she was a Myrmidon).  We don't know the actual criteria they used to pick the playables, just vague talk from interviews.

Fourth, on Rowan and Lianna using swords:  The twins being designed to use swords doesn't mean they didn't try to balance the roster and there are design reasons why they might want the protagonists of this story to use swords.  Swords are traditionally heroic, and for FE specifically, sword and board fighting was originally used by Marth (and later by Chrom in Awakening as a nod to this) by using the Falchion alongside the Fire Emblem as a shield.Their design is probably a throwback to this, since Marth is a fencer in this game, and Chrom and Lucina use a shield-less style.  Also, their swords from the cover art look more like real world falchions than the Falchion does, which might be a subtle nod to the Falchion.

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From the way I look at it, Fates could easily have less characters than Awakening present in-game. Azura, Takumi, and Camilla is really all that's need to cover all the bases, even Leo would be pushing it, I think. With Hinoka, Sakura, Elise, and a couple of the retainers as NPCs? That'd probably be perfect. At this point, I'd actually be annoyed if half the game ended up being Fates characters.

Compare to Awakening, who could get Cordelia, Gaius, Tharja, Gangrel or Walhart added. Awakening kinda has all of it's necessary "story" characters, so I'm assuming the rest of it's roster will be padded with fan-favorites, meanwhile Fates still needs a few more units to be considered "complete" if they want to do some sort of slight retelling of the early chapters, like Awakening seems to be doing.

Shadow Dragon has this too, though SD has roughly the same amount of "important" story characters that Awakening does, but unlike Awakening, most of those characters are also the fan-favorites (Caeda, Tiki, etc.). I don't know where they're going with this. To make a good Talys recreation, assuming the game will give you 4 characters to have a full team right off the bat, you'd need Marth, Caeda, Jagen and Draug/Gordin, with Cain and Abel as NPCs, but if Rowen and Lianna will be on your team, or you get Awakening characters before that, then Marth/Caeda is more than enough. We just don't know how that'll work yet.

I think we can at least expect to see the following characters revealed in the next few weeks:
Takumi, Camilla, Azura, Cordelia, Caeda, Tiki
 

4 minutes ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

First, I do think that having 8 swords shown so far means that we have more than 24-26 characters, mostly because they've asked us to be patient with the fact that mostly swords were upload.  'Nothing can truly change the roster's overwhelming weakness to lances' except, you know, including more axes (and bows if they get thrown in with axes like fates).  The fact that they've put emphasis on the weapon triangle in interviews, but have still revealed 8 swords, is the main reason I think 24-26 would be too conservative.

My sentiments exactly. For all the talk about Weapon Triangle being implemented, having a majority of the game being one weapon type is a huge red flag. I'm still sticking by my 30-35 cast size. I don't see how they could feasibly make a big deal out of a Triangle system with any less.

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1 hour ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

From the way I look at it, Fates could easily have less characters than Awakening present in-game. Azura, Takumi, and Camilla is really all that's need to cover all the bases

Considering how much the developers are stressing weapon variety, there will no doubt be other Fates characters that use Daggers, possibly one that uses Scrolls, and even one of the 4 beast characters. There's lots there to cover in terms of weapons, so I wouldn't count Fates out on the character department.

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6 hours ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

From the way I look at it, Fates could easily have less characters than Awakening present in-game. Azura, Takumi, and Camilla is really all that's need to cover all the bases, even Leo would be pushing it, I think. With Hinoka, Sakura, Elise, and a couple of the retainers as NPCs? That'd probably be perfect. At this point, I'd actually be annoyed if half the game ended up being Fates characters.

Compare to Awakening, who could get Cordelia, Gaius, Tharja, Gangrel or Walhart added. Awakening kinda has all of it's necessary "story" characters, so I'm assuming the rest of it's roster will be padded with fan-favorites, meanwhile Fates still needs a few more units to be considered "complete" if they want to do some sort of slight retelling of the early chapters, like Awakening seems to be doing.

Shadow Dragon has this too, though SD has roughly the same amount of "important" story characters that Awakening does, but unlike Awakening, most of those characters are also the fan-favorites (Caeda, Tiki, etc.). I don't know where they're going with this. To make a good Talys recreation, assuming the game will give you 4 characters to have a full team right off the bat, you'd need Marth, Caeda, Jagen and Draug/Gordin, with Cain and Abel as NPCs, but if Rowen and Lianna will be on your team, or you get Awakening characters before that, then Marth/Caeda is more than enough. We just don't know how that'll work yet.

I think we can at least expect to see the following characters revealed in the next few weeks:
Takumi, Camilla, Azura, Cordelia, Caeda, Tiki
 

My sentiments exactly. For all the talk about Weapon Triangle being implemented, having a majority of the game being one weapon type is a huge red flag. I'm still sticking by my 30-35 cast size. I don't see how they could feasibly make a big deal out of a Triangle system with any less.

I think Leo is basically a shoe-in though, considering how popular he is and also his potential to be pretty unique. I'm expecting a majority of the Royals to get, with maybe only Elise, Sakura, or Hinoka not making it. Fates is two casts of characters in one game so I wouldn't be surprised if Fates has the same if not more representation than Awakening, though I definitely see what you mean with the other games having "story" characters. 

I've actually changed my mind on my original estimate of ~25 characters. I'm guessing (and hoping) for ~30, if not just slightly more. 

4 hours ago, pik3rob said:

Considering how much the developers are stressing weapon variety, there will no doubt be other Fates characters that use Daggers, possibly one that uses Scrolls, and even one of the 4 beast characters. There's lots there to cover in terms of weapons, so I wouldn't count Fates out on the character department.

I would be shocked if they didn't include other Fates characters outside of the royals. There is quite a bit of potential that would be lost if they do, and as much as I like the royals I'm hoping they add others. If not, I'm hoping that other Fates characters would at least get a chance in DLC or something or free download (like they did with the villains/Medli in HW). 

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6 hours ago, YotsuMaboroshi said:

First, I do think that having 8 swords shown so far means that we have more than 24-26 characters, mostly because they've asked us to be patient with the fact that mostly swords were upload.  'Nothing can truly change the roster's overwhelming weakness to lances' except, you know, including more axes (and bows if they get thrown in with axes like fates).  The fact that they've put emphasis on the weapon triangle in interviews, but have still revealed 8 swords, is the main reason I think 24-26 would be too conservative.

Second, KT is aware of the hubbub surrounding their decision and 'too many swords'.  As per interviews, this happened internally as well, before it was announced.  While I don't doubt the roster will be weighted towards swords (FE as a whole is weighted towards swords, just look at FEH), I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the PR speak wasn't just lip service.  If it isn't lip service, that means they made an effort to balance the available weapons.  If we assume Tome/Bow/Dstone are neutral, the roster could be roughly split into 4 weapon types with those three falling in the fourth category.

They have used weapon choice as an example of strategic decision making in the game.  You send a sword to fight axes because he's good at fighting axes.  Having a map where almost a third of the roster is disadvantaged but only an eighth of the roster is advantaged is bad design.  If they want the weapon triangle to be a core mechanic for FEW that separates it from other Warriors titles, they need to balance the weapon diversity.  Otherwise, the game will get bad press ('too many swords lol'), might not sell as well as it could have, and then they won't be able to make the sequel they want to that would bring in other games of the series.

Third, on Subaki specifically, what if KT wants to have a male and female rep for as many classes as possible (they did say they were looking for representatives for classes)?  Subaki, Severa/Selena, and Jakob's chances increase significantly in that specific instance because they are the opposite gender that their class normally is.  Jakob is a promoted Troubadour and Subaki is a male Pegasus rider, which were female only classes up until Fates (though Jakob as a Troubadour rep is stretching a bit).  Severa is the second female Mercenary in the series, and Malice doesn't seem to be in consideration due to coming from FE3 (FE12 she was a Myrmidon).  We don't know the actual criteria they used to pick the playables, just vague talk from interviews.

Fourth, on Rowan and Lianna using swords:  The twins being designed to use swords doesn't mean they didn't try to balance the roster and there are design reasons why they might want the protagonists of this story to use swords.  Swords are traditionally heroic, and for FE specifically, sword and board fighting was originally used by Marth (and later by Chrom in Awakening as a nod to this) by using the Falchion alongside the Fire Emblem as a shield.Their design is probably a throwback to this, since Marth is a fencer in this game, and Chrom and Lucina use a shield-less style.  Also, their swords from the cover art look more like real world falchions than the Falchion does, which might be a subtle nod to the Falchion.

Okay, but if there's over 30 characters then it just makes no sense at that point to not have all of the royals, especially when they're all so varied. And yeah, you can add more axes and lances, but nothing will change the fact that if a roster was 26 characters, a third would still be weak to lances. That was my point. You can't change the overwhelming weakness to lances in a 26 man roster because trying to include more axes would just let you not include weapons outside the triangle like tomes and stones. You have limited space, just 26. I made a 26 character roster. So why would you expect it to be perfectly balanced? I've stated by now that was just characters who came to mind at the time. Yeah if I had more spots then I would had given them to axes but once again, it was hypothetical. I never said "My roster WILL HAPPEN! Get ready!" You're taking my words out of context imho : ^ (, either that or I'm not explaining myself well, probably the latter :lol:

You say they need to balance weapon diversity and I'm agreeing with you, that's why you add the royals?? all of them are very strong candidates and have their own niche and though the sisters besides Camilla have a bit of competition/hurdles against them, even then Sakura wouldn't be that irrelevant (another bow user for an alternate to Takumi and for the weapon triangle, fits in because you might want more neutral-to-everything people, also fits for pegasus knight bonus damage).

And I honestly don't see how gender is such a big deal. Okay, Subaki's the first male Pegasus Knight, it doesn't make him the face or a representative of Pegasus Knights. They said they're fans of FE too, and that they're choosing the roster from a fan perspective. That won't be true if they're shoving characters in just based off of what's between their legs. Even just "they're popular" would be a better reason imho.

And I never said that oh because the twins use swords they don't care about balance. No! I said if they were extensively worried about balance of weapons, then they would make the OC's something else besides swords. It makes sense for there to be a bit of balance in weapon types but it doesn't require them to be exactly equal in quantity. And while it makes sense why the twins use swords, they could also come up with a reason why they would use lances or axes.

I really don't think I have anything else to say past this since I feel like we'll just go in circles.

Edited by Pokechu
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Shadow Dragon: Marth, Caeda, Tiki, Minerva, Merric, Linde, Draug*, Hardin/Camus**

Awakening: Chrom, Lissa, Frederick, Robin, Lucina, Vaike, Cordelia, Gaius, Tharja, Kellam*, Aversa***

Fates: Corrin, Xander, Ryoma, Azura, Camilla, Leo, Takumi, Elise, Sakura, Hinoka

OCs: Rowan, Lianna, Darius

*I feel there should be at least one Armor unit rep, and Draug is pretty popular in Japan, IIRC, but Kellam might get in on meme status

**I'm doubtful that they'd both make it in, I would've given the edge to Camus, but if class = weapon type then Paladins use swords, whereas Camus is most famous for the Gradivus, Hardin, however, joins as a Cavalier, so he could still use Lances (and does have the Gradivus in Mystery)

***Admittedly a bit of a long shot, but being a Flying (Dark) Magic user does give her a unique niche

dlc: Lyn, amiibo characters not already in (Ike, Roy, Alm, Celica, Male Corrin), Female Robin, Owain, Inigo, Severa, Shade, Emma, Yuzu, Randal

Edited by Mysterique Sign
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These are the characters from the confirmed games that I am hoping to see

Shadow Dragon- Ogma, Barst, Corst, Cord Jaegan, Cain, Abel, Frey, Minnerva, Princess Caeda, Hardin,

Awakening- Cherche, Gerome, Flavia, Bassilo, Vaike, Henry, Gaius, Kellum

Fates- Keaton, Velourie, Silas, Sophie, Scarlet, Rinkah, Benny, Arthur, Charlotte, Shiro (I didn't list the Royal Siblings because we will probably see more Fates Royals anyway).

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