New banners announced: Alm's Army/Celica's Army

[Kaden]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Is anyone even looking for a physically defensive archer? Virion has top 5 offenses (if only barely) and 46/26 bulk. The guy's built like a brick wall.

Well, he's another option. Before watching the video, my thoughts were Leon would have high HP and relatively high defense and resistance at the cost of terrible attack and average speed. So, I was thinking he'd be defensive in general until I saw he had Ignis which would imply he'd have higher defense that resistance. Makes sense since he's from Gaiden. Seeing Ignis made me add in physically rather than just defensive.

Basically, I was thinking of something like Virion with actual resistance, but nonexistent attack or Gordin with actual speed and resistance, but nonexistent attack. Something like 42 HP, 25 Atk, 31 Spd, 28 Def, and 24 Def.

I never played Gaiden or Echoes, so I'm not sure on his speed. I do know from looking up on him a while back that he was considered a more defensive archer compared to Python.

Leon might end up being a reverse Felicia and Niles which isn't that great since he'd need Close Counter or else he's limited to dealing with other archers and thieves which isn't useful to dealing with mages in general.

[DehNutCase]

2 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Well, he's another option. Before watching the video, my thoughts were Leon would have high HP and relatively high defense and resistance at the cost of terrible attack and average speed. So, I was thinking he'd be defensive in general until I saw he had Ignis which would imply he'd have higher defense that resistance. Makes sense since he's from Gaiden. Seeing Ignis made me add in physically rather than just defensive.

Basically, I was thinking of something like Virion with actual resistance, but nonexistent attack or Gordin with actual speed and resistance, but nonexistent attack. Something like 42 HP, 25 Atk, 31 Spd, 28 Def, and 24 Def.

I never played Gaiden or Echoes, so I'm not sure on his speed. I do know from looking up on him a while back that he was considered a more defensive archer compared to Python.

Leon might end up being a reverse Felicia and Niles which isn't that great since he'd need Close Counter or else he's limited to dealing with other archers and thieves which isn't useful to dealing with mages in general.

The 'shitty offenses' bulky archer role is already covered by Faye, who's ignored because god damn is that kind of spread shit.

Edit: Mind, the 'Basically Selena' spread isn't going to do anyone any favors, either. It needs to be more lopsided in its defense stats (some res into def and hp) in order to run a killer bonfire set properly.

Edited July 12, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Silith13]

Mathilda is tempting to pull for but with 2 blue units on the focus I'm just going to wait untill she's actually the sole blue unit in a banner someday just like I did with Jaffar. Eh I can go like 4 more banners before I reach 999 orbs anyways.  And I can still increase my barracks size for when the mother of all pull sessions starts.

[Infinite Dreams]

Well, I'm happy about the new banners coming out, buuut Cancel Affinity looks awful.  No no no no!  It's going to be so annoying in the arena.  

[Xaos Steel Wing]

33 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

This. As I was bitching about before, Reinhardt now actually has something other than Lancebreaker to run in his B slot because it lets him break through Triangle Adept greens.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a TA green in arena - or, perhaps, I don't remember seeing one - which means if I ever did ran into one it was such a negligible threat I didn't remember it.

If you have a TA green enemy on your hands... just use a red to take it out?

Same thing goes for the Triangle Cancel... if you have to run that skill, it would probably be easier just to have a unit of the color the TA/Jewel unit is weak to fight them instead?

And if your enemy doesn't have TA or Jewels... that skill is doing nothing for you.

I don't think TAs and Jewel weapons are that common and threatening that it would be worth running a skill that exists just to negate them. Especially since there's an easier counter to those things... just use the color they are weak to! (Unless you for some reason aren't using all 3 colors in arena).

Edit: What I mean to say, is that sure it can help Rein take out some TA greens he could before. But you could also use a red unit to take out those greens too, without using up a skill slot and a 5* unit you inherit the skill from.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Xaos Steel Wing

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, Silith13 said:

Mathilda is tempting to pull for but with 2 blue units on the focus I'm just going to wait untill she's actually the sole blue unit in a banner someday just like I did with Jaffar. Eh I can go like 4 more banners before I reach 999 orbs anyways.  And I can still increase my barracks size for when the mother of all pull sessions starts.

Being in a 3 unit focus means that she's quite a bit common even after the double blue focus penalty, though. (Not to mention being in a double blue focus with only 3 units gives crazy 5* chances when sniping blue.)

[Kaden]

7 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The 'shitty offenses' bulky archer role is already covered by Faye, who's ignored because god damn is that kind of spread shit.

Yeah, but Leon would have even shittier offenses! :P

I was actually debating if I wanted to give Leon 20 or lower attack to boost his speed and defensive stats.

Speaking of Faye, part of me wants to make Brash Assault Faye because of how stupid it would be. Yay, Faye benefiting from villager BST!

Also, yeah, Cancel Affinity is a B-slot. I had to pause the video when I saw that. This is why it's both good and bad since unless a unit is changed manually and not being given random skills like in trials and training tower, BS like Reinhardt with Cancel Affinity won't exist in singleplayer, but Celica and Takumi will because they don't have B-slot skills.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Kaden

[DehNutCase]

12 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Yeah, but Leon would have even shittier offenses! :P

I was actually debating if I wanted to give Leon 20 or lower attack to boost his speed and defensive stats.

Speaking of Faye, part of me wants to make Brash Assault Faye because of how stupid it would be. Yay, Faye benefiting from villager BST!

Also, yeah, Cancel Affinity is a B-slot. I had to pause he video when I saw that. This is why it's both good and bad since unless a unit is changed manually and not being given random skills like in trials and training tower, BS like Reinhardt with Cancel Affinity won't exist in singleplayer, but Celica and Takumi will because they don't have B-slot skills.

I don't think CA will matter too much. It's about as strong a tech as Guard is for a unit fighting QR Bonfire. No one runs Guard so Cordelia doesn't have to worry about that Bonfire Lukas, and I doubt many people will run CA to fight TA-3 dragons, either. The kind of units they counter simply aren't numerous enough to demand a B-slot.

Edit: Then again, Reinhardt with it would obliterate literally the entire cast, since he's strong enough to OHKO all greens if the maximum attack penalty is only 20%---gl using B-tomebreaker, losers.

Better get that Vantage Reinhardt set up and running, I guess. The only counter to Reinhardt is a better Reinhardt.

Edit:

The team will be:

Odin (+Hp/-Atk or +Spd/-Atk), with: Fury 3, Guard, Panic Ploy, Hp Seal, to guarantee that someone on the team is damaged so Reinhardt can Ardent into Vantage range.

Reinhardt.

2 Random cavalry. (It's recommended that they are also Reinhardt, to maximize player phase obliteration when needed.)

Primary CC Vantage Reinhardt will carry Hone Cav, the other two will carry 1 Hone and 1 Fort.

 

The best part of this team? They can all carry Blarblade. : D

Edited July 12, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Xaos Steel Wing]

40 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

They could have buffed the killers instead.

I think by this point we can safely say that they are not buffing or nerfing past units at all.
If something is imbalanced, they'll try to work on it through future units/abilities/seals.

The recent releases of anti-cavalry weapons and anti-buff weapons and skills seem to indicate that.

Though they're hardly effective. Not like the Ridersbane or Zanbato will do much against Reinhardt (and Cecilia) who are the real problem if they can't get to Rein without first putting themselves into his range (unless you run a dancer, but at that point you could probably dance to and one-round Rein with a blue or green without the super effectiveness).

46 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Because killers were basically obsolete to begin with---Silvers usually sim better or comparable. 4 MT is just way too heavy of a penalty when no one runs defensive specials.

I was worried about the dreaded power creep...

But is it really power creep if it's something no one really uses anyway?

It reminds of when in Hearthstone, there was a 5/1 neutral common unit that was essentially useless (too many ways to do 1 damage) so they introduced a 5/2 neutral common unit... and still no one used it in constructed (though at least it had some use in draft arena, but that's different).

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@Kaden The last banner before this was New Mystery banner, a banner which introduces Cardinal system, Firesweep Lance, and 4 character with amazing SI potential and near min maxed stats for their base kit

This banner being busted is expected. They need to keep up with Mystery banner

[Kaden]

2 minutes ago, JSND said:

@Kaden The last banner before this was New Mystery banner, a banner which introduces Cardinal system, Firesweep Lance, and 4 character with amazing SI potential and near min maxed stats for their base kit

This banner being busted is expected. They need to keep up with Mystery banner

New Mystery seems like a lesser evil when it introduces new things and expected things like more Firesweep weapons, more double rallies, and more 2 effect blows rather than making weapons obsolete with the introduction of Slaying weapons and however Cancel Adept managed to get pass Q&A.

Seriously, they could have just upped every Killing weapons' MT by 1. Nope, let's make every Killing weapon inferior to Slaying weapons. If they had done that, Cancel Adept being the only problematic thing wouldn't be so bad since it's not like an entire weapon type suddenly became even crappier. 

[NekoKnight]

24 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

I'm not sure I've ever seen a TA green in arena - or, perhaps, I don't remember seeing one - which means if I ever did ran into one it was such a negligible threat I didn't remember it.

TA Gronnraven?

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

You're basically saying: Meg would be one of the best characters in fire emblem if she was in a game with 1 Meg and 99 Lyres. Far better than, say, Beruka in a game with 99 Camillas, whereas I'd still consider Beruka better due to a comparison of bases, growths, caps and mobility.

That's accurate. Because things don't exist in a vacuum, I weigh mutually exclusive options against their immediate alternatives.

 

1 minute ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

I'm not sure I've ever seen a TA green in arena - or, perhaps, I don't remember seeing one - which means if I ever did ran into one it was such a negligible threat I didn't remember it.

If you have a TA green enemy on your hands... just use a red to take it out?

Same thing goes for the Triangle Cancel... if you have to run that skill, it would probably be easier just to have a unit of the color the TA/Jewel unit is weak to fight them instead?

You're not running Cancel Affinity on your offense team. Players would be running it on their defense teams.

Imagine a team of 4 Reinhardts all with Cancel Affinity. With +Atk, Death Blow 3, and Hone Cavalry, they have 45 effective Atk against green. +Res Fury Nino takes 9×2+6 damage from each one. +Res Fury Julia takes 5×2+6 damage from each one.

 

Cancel Affinity would have been fine if all it did was negate Triangle Adept, but no, it negates the weapon triangle completely when you're attacking at disadvantage against a Triangle Adept user.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@Ice Dragon Any guess how TA would interact with Raven since Raven technically is a skill that gives WTA?

[Ice Dragon]

Just now, JSND said:

@Ice Dragon Any guess how TA would interact with Raven since Raven technically is a skill that gives WTA?

Litrraven's additional weapon triangle effects behave identically to any other weapon triangle effects. Weapon triangle modifiers are weapon triangle modifiers regardless of how you get them.

[DehNutCase]

11 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's accurate. Because things don't exist in a vacuum, I weigh mutually exclusive options against their immediate alternatives.

 

You're not running Cancel Affinity on your offense team. Players would be running it on their defense teams.

Imagine a team of 4 Reinhardts all with Cancel Affinity. With +Atk, Death Blow 3, and Hone Cavalry, they have 45 effective Atk against green. +Res Fury Nino takes 9×2+6 damage from each one. +Res Fury Julia takes 5×2+6 damage from each one.

 

Cancel Affinity would have been fine if all it did was negate Triangle Adept, but no, it negates the weapon triangle completely when you're attacking at disadvantage against a Triangle Adept user.

I mean, =Julia +0 with just -blade, Fury 3, and +3/+3 speed/atk buffs OHKOs (and survives) +10 levels, +6/+6, +Atk, DB 3, Moonbow Pulse Reinhardt. This means she can just run Vantage and Vantage sweep teams like that.

 

Julia has 38/35 magical bulk after Fury 3, so anyone who can reach that level, and can OHKO Reinhardt, can still be viable on defense teams, just with Vantage rather than QR.

Edited July 12, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Xaos Steel Wing]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You're not running Cancel Affinity on your offense team. Players would be running it on their defense teams.

Imagine a team of 4 Reinhardts all with Cancel Affinity. With +Atk, Death Blow 3, and Hone Cavalry, they have 45 effective Atk against green. +Res Fury Nino takes 9×2+6 damage from each one. +Res Fury Julia takes 5×2+6 damage from each one.

Cancel Affinity would have been fine if all it did was negate Triangle Adept, but no, it negates the weapon triangle completely when you're attacking at disadvantage against a Triangle Adept user.

That makes it a LOT more powerful.

I'm still not sure I understand, I looked around a bit more and am getting contradictory explanations as to what this skill actually does, and the wording of the skill itself is unclear to me.

But if I understand correctly... it still only has any effect against TA or Jewel Weapon users... and it removes WTA completely from them instead of just removing the TA bonus... So that's still not that bad, if you don't use TA or jewel weapons you're fine and unaffected.

I never was a fan of TA and only ever used it for the Legion Lunatic and Infernal battle.

Although that does remove a few green units that could survive Rein's attack with TA...

That being said, it is a 5* Exclusive skill, and I bet it will stay that way... So it's not exactly going to be super common.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Xaos Steel Wing

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Litrraven's additional weapon triangle effects behave identically to any other weapon triangle effects. Weapon triangle modifiers are weapon triangle modifiers regardless of how you get them.

so the tl;dr is AC3 Virion vs Litrraven = Virion now gets WTA against Raven?

[DehNutCase]

Just now, JSND said:

so the tl;dr is AC3 Virion vs Litrraven = Virion now gets WTA against Raven?

There's a good chance AC3 wouldn't be inheritable on archers, though. Given that they're colorless.

Mind, this is just speculation based on the fact that you can't do the 100% retarded thing of giving them TA3.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

There's a good chance AC3 wouldn't be inheritable on archers, though. Given that they're colorless.

Mind, this is just speculation based on the fact that you can't do the 100% retarded thing of giving them TA3.

Oh god i need to check if theres any possible "Colorless unit X wins against scrub unit with color Y even with TA3 on Colorless unit X" The meme potential

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

I mean, =Julia +0 with just -blade, Fury 3, and +3/+3 speed/atk buffs OHKOs (and survives) +10 levels, +6/+6, +Atk, DB 3, Moonbow Pulse Reinhardt. This means she can just run Vantage and Vantage sweep teams like that.

Forcing every player to run something like this is not healthy for a meta. Just because a counter exists doesn't justify its existence.

 

3 minutes ago, JSND said:

so the tl;dr is AC3 Virion vs Litrraven = Virion now gets WTA against Raven?

Oh, I see where the confusion comes from. The English wording is inaccurate. Yay localization team.

The Japanese text specifically uses the phrase "enhances weapon triangle effects", not "gives weapon triangle effects". Litrraven gives weapon triangle effects, but does not enhance it. Only Triangle Adept and gem weapons are affected.

Cancel Affinity Virion against Triangle Adept Litrraven would have the disadvantage negated, but Cancel Affinity Virion against Litrraven without Triangle Adept would still be at a disadvantage.

[Vaximillian]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

The Japanese text specifically uses the phrase "enhances weapon triangle effects", not "gives weapon triangle effects".

Quote

Cancel Affinity 3
Any weapon triangle affinity granted by unit’s skills is negated. If affinity disadvantage exists, weapon triangle affinity granted by foe’s skills is reversed.

Quoted verbatim from the trailer. Nowhere can the phrase “gives weapon triangle effects” be found.
Still it’s not very obvious what it does, but hey.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Vaximillian

[Ice Dragon]

Just now, Vaximillian said:

gives weapon triangle effects” be found.
Still it’s not very obvious what it does, but hey.

Quoted verbatim from the trailer. Nowhere can the phrase “

Holy shit how did that get spliced like that.

"Weapon triangle affinity granted by foe's skills is reversed" could be interpreted to include Litrraven giving weapon triangle advantage against colorless.

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

Quoted verbatim from the trailer. Nowhere can the phrase “gives weapon triangle effects” be found.
Still it’s not very obvious what it does, but hey.

It does say 'skills'- meaning Triangle Adept and weapons with innate Triangle Adept. It obeys the same wording rules as Phantom Speed does- and look where that landed us.

We really need to automatically mentally highlight the word 'skill' next time something happens.

[Vaximillian]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Holy shit how did that get spliced like that.

"Weapon triangle affinity granted by foe's skills is reversed" could be interpreted to include Litrraven giving weapon triangle advantage against colorless.

New forum software, ladies and gentlemen.

To be honest, I actually thought this is a reaver skill, turning WTD into WTA and vice versa.