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Revival of Mafia Mafia- Day 3


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23 hours ago, Izhuark said:

I'm not dedicated to argue a paper lynch actually. I'm dedicated to argue on anything paperblade is just my only real read for now. But people jumped on me for voting him and i admit that i freaked out because i didn't saw what was wrong in my manner of putting it.

i can see why prims thinks i'm browbeating someone that i know is going to react poorly, but i really really don't see why a townie should get so hung up on defending themselves from like two people, especially considering that, at that point, he admitted that paperblade was his only real read. if you think paperblade is scum, why not push him for it?

23 hours ago, Izhuark said:

Yeah i think Shin should come back and start playing so we can move on from his shitposting and have actual reads. Same for zeonth and gaius but for different reasons, noc should take more effort than eimm imo it's not because the deadline is larger than you can flake more.

i also think this is the only thing izhu had said about anything in particular at that point in the game

3 hours ago, Izhuark said:

I still really don't like this argument from paperblade why shouldn't Shin ve suspected, i know past meta can be important but we shouldn't be suspicious for pressuring a player known for being mislynch.

i don't have a problem with this counterargument but i don't know where he's going with this -- is paperblade scum for making this argument? is shin suspicious? why?

 

3 hours ago, Izhuark said:

Most other people are either not posting enough for now or content was either null or town. If someone is interested in a listpost or my opinion on other cases don't hesitate to ask, it just seems the most tangible one to me.

let's have it. your case on me seems to be largely rehashes of what everybody else has been saying, plus some nitpicking at my use of the phrase "keep in mind" or whatever, and the rest of your posts are literally arguing over semantics

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42 minutes ago, BBM said:

'what town would not do' and 'what scum would do' are most of the time pretty similar. Yes scum can emulate town behaviour but they do it for scum motivations. I don't know why you're spending time on this semantic difference izhuark.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Gaius

Idk its frustrating that Cam is rolling over but ultimately I don't think he's wifoming here.

why're you voting gaius here

do you think Izhu is village?

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1 minute ago, Paperblade said:

Also I don't think scum Cam spams up the thread like this

even without getting into "i don't play often enough that trying to meta me is a good idea", i'm spamming partially because it's less painful than trying to deal with RTE

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Zeonth had time to message me "hi" on Discord the other day (presumably about eimm which is why I didn't respond xd) but still hasn't posted content in this game. @Mod: has he been prodded yet?

@BBM, Boron, Cam: Would you guys be down for a Gaius pile-up? I still think he's scummy and a lot of the game has him down as at least a secondary suspicion. Seems prudent to take care of that now and not later.

Refa is basically coasting on his Elie vote at this point which doesn't look too hot this late in the day. I can't tell who else he'd consider lynching besides possibly me but he hasn't even been particularly pushy about that. @Refa: priorities between Gaius-Cam-Izhuark (since they seem like the most likely lynch candidates as is)?

I got cut by a lot of stuff including BBM moving to Gaius and Cam freaking out so that's cool. I don't actually townread Cam over this but I think Gaius is more likely to flip scum regardless; was more interested in how Cam would take being wagoned since my Gaius vote wasn't really going places at the time.

##Unvoting
##Vote: Lord Gaius

There is a Cam inconsistency (TM) I noticed though. @Cam: how do these two posts fit together? If you could post a more thought-out read on Gaius that'd be great.

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25 minutes ago, CT075 said:

This is painting me black pointlessly; how was i cutting any discussion short? if you think i'm wrong, tell me why

 

i honestly don't know what that means. are you saying i have no reads? here's one: i think you're scum. i haven't budged from this at all; you're just nitpicking at my wording

 

so let me get this straight: I'm scum because "incoherence is a good way to mask scum intentions". Care to tell me what those scum intentions might be?

 

what possible scum advantage could i gain from this?

1.The fact that you ignored 90% of my post to concentrate on a part that can be easily dismissed is no different to me than cutting down the discussion.

2. I'm not saying that you don't read me has scum but that nothing to back it up except ED1 confusion and vague suspicion.

3.Well i'm well known for my lack of confidence, stressing under the pressure and overall bad play votes so keeping a vote on me to force me to spoof under pressure bringing vote upon my head seems a good strategy especially since i rapidly grew into a wagon. 

4. Simple, eluding even more the different reasons you have to keep your vote on me making it seems it's totally normal.

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2 minutes ago, Prims said:

There is a Cam inconsistency (TM) I noticed though. @Cam: how do these two posts fit together? If you could post a more thought-out read on Gaius that'd be great.

that is actually a good catch; i was kind of stream-of-consciousness-ing. I think that Gaius is lazy [something]; I was actually reading the thread to find specifics when I got pinged so I'll have a full analysis in a moment (not being able to ISO suuuucks)

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1 minute ago, Izhuark said:

4. Simple, eluding even more the different reasons you have to keep your vote on me making it seems it's totally normal.

like what? it's clearly not ggetting me any town points

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2 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

2. I'm not saying that you don't read me has scum but that nothing to back it up except ED1 confusion and vague suspicion.

..i'm sorry for having ED1 reads during ED1?

3 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

especially since i rapidly grew into a wagon. 

people that voted you:

me

boron

 

what are you talking about?

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oh god spamposting makes reading through the whole thread looking for people's posts fucking awful what have i done

23 hours ago, Lord Gaius said:

Prims pushing Shins self vote bothers me, especially since it was in the muck of RVS.

this is a really lazy vote; i would hav eliked to hear something about the whole sb/paperblade stuff

23 hours ago, Lord Gaius said:

Izhu wagon is not my favorite. Cam's voting him for the discussion ended point mainly which is more semantics than anything else and Boron's vote doesn't make much sense to me. If Izhu believes Mafia would/wouldn't do something (regardless of the true answer) he'd push/vote according to that belief. Where's the actual scum intent in his Paper vote (bad logic isn:t scum intent)

This defense of Izhu is fine, although I'm not sure if this is "your arguments suck" or "izhu is town because ???"

20 hours ago, Lord Gaius said:

If he parked on Shin as scum he'd probably get more pressure so I would think optimal play is to move to someone else. The case is meh to me, Cam/Izhu interactions were a lot of playstyle differences/that point, not the whole gist but a part of it, enough for my defense at least. Explained about pressure on him above.

this is not wrong, but I don't think it says anything meaningful -- notably, my argument with Izhu is primarily because of playstyle issues which excuses izhu but nothing about me (i could have the order of events wrong, but i think at least BBM had said something about it by then).

20 hours ago, Lord Gaius said:

Boron's gotten pressure and you haven't (or it didn't stick out to me if you have.) 

I buy this, but it doesn't seem like a useful thing to do

I would be okay with piling Gaius but primarly because it's "not me". i don't have huge issues with what he's said (i don't even think i missed any actual posts), i just don't think he's actually said anything (this is what i mean by noncommittal) -- he's defending izhu, but i don't know if that's because izhu is town or because boron and my arguments are bad. 

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20 hours ago, Lord Gaius said:

I struggle to see how Shin's self.vote is worth more of a look than say SB/paper interactions unless im fucking up the timeline (Prims vote Mid page 3, SB/Paper stuff Page 2- Early Page 3)

oh i guess i missed this one too

it's not wrong, but i don't see why gaius doesn't appear to have anything to say about SB/paper interactions either

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14 minutes ago, CT075 said:

 

i can see why prims thinks i'm browbeating someone that i know is going to react poorly, but i really really don't see why a townie should get so hung up on defending themselves from like two people, especially considering that, at that point, he admitted that paperblade was his only real read. if you think paperblade is scum, why not push him for it?

i also think this is the only thing izhu had said about anything in particular at that point in the game

i don't have a problem with this counterargument but i don't know where he's going with this -- is paperblade scum for making this argument? is shin suspicious? why?

 

let's have it. your case on me seems to be largely rehashes of what everybody else has been saying, plus some nitpicking at my use of the phrase "keep in mind" or whatever, and the rest of your posts are literally arguing over semantics

1. I'm not defending myself and i never was. Sure i freaked when you jumped on me after my paperblade vote, but i was not defending myself but my reasoning. It was akward yes but saying defending my reasoning is like defending my self is dubious as best.

2. So you either don't read me at all or don't understand my points to say that. If you want me to clarify ask me to but don't try to contradict me if you don't even get my point.

3.Yes, Paperblade seemed scummy to me for jumping on SB for no real reason other than shin meta. It's way too early to say if it affects Shin or not but it could lead to association reads eventually.

4. I tried to make my own reads and it happened to coincide with other people. Even if i my post may seem hard to understand i think i at least reinforced a bit your case while bringing some older posts to illustrate it. I don't think arguing over semantic is useless especially if scum try to use it wrong to make it look like they are scum hunting when they basically do a whole lot of nothing and you are the other 50% of those argument remember?  So i don't think you are well placed to criticise me on this one.

30 minutes ago, CT075 said:

like what? it's clearly not ggetting me any town points

Yeah but it doesn't make your vote suspicious either when it actually had little to back it up. Sure it not beneficial as town and that's the point.

30 minutes ago, CT075 said:

you keep talking about these mysterious "scum reasons" but i have yet to hear anything about what those reasons actually are

Look at point 3. of my last post again

38 minutes ago, CT075 said:

..i'm sorry for having ED1 reads during ED1?

people that voted you:

me

boron

 

what are you talking about?

I don't think that less than 24 hour before the deadline we are still in ED1 and you ED1 reads are all but relevant anymore.

Paper blade wich made me first wagon ex equo.

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Izhuark's reaction to being disagreed with seems to be to focus on that to the exclusion of the rest of the game. I'm still not reading this as scummy because if anything it seems to draw more attention to him but I do wish he'd talk about other people. Izhuark, what are your reads besides scum!Cam? Would you support a Gaius wagon?

Wagons are 3 on Izhuark, 3 on Gaius, 2 on Cam, 2 on Elie (one of which is Zeonth's jokevote) right now. Also 1 on me and Shin.  Zeonth and Elie need to come post content. Elie said he'd try to post content this morning but is four hours away from hitting the prod timer. Luckily we don't need majority to lynch today, but I'd rather not see two players effectively skip D1.

Gaius is still the best lynch for today IMO. I remember Refa said what will be telling about his alignment is the way he follows up his reads and his follow-up has so far been absolutely nothing.

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8 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

So i don't think you are well placed to criticise me on this one.

i can do whatever i want; it's bad when i did it too.

 

8 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

Yeah but it doesn't make your vote suspicious either when it actually had little to back it up. Sure it not beneficial as town and that's the point.

this is a ridiculous point. town playing badly exists, and more importantly it doesn't make sense as a scum move.

 

9 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

I don't think that less than 24 hour before the deadline we are still in ED1 and you ED1 reads are all but relevant anymore.

it's almost like the quotes you were responding to were made during ED1?

 

10 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

Look at point 3. of my last post again

 

11 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

Paper blade wich made me first wagon ex equo.

this is completely ridiculous. if i were scum, i gained nothing by having stuck to you for that long. look at the timing of those posts; paperblade posted way later into the day, and i'm still pretty sure that the three of us are the only ones who even remotely consider you a lynch target.

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Just now, CT075 said:

i can do whatever i want; it's bad when i did it too.

i have also done things other than argue over semantics, the only post of yours that i've seen that isn't in some argument over somebody's wording is your case on me (and responses to that)

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(what i mean by that is that izhu seems to be doing nothing but arguing over semantics [plus his recent case on me]; arguing about semantics by itself is not inherently bad but is kind of a waste of time)

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16 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

2. So you either don't read me at all or don't understand my points to say that. If you want me to clarify ask me to but don't try to contradict me if you don't even get my point.

can you point me to any post you made saying anything about anybody else's alignment within a page of that post? i'll wait.

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actually wait, no, i'll do it.

 

there's this one, which is basically "it's not a scum slip but hard wagoning someone early is a bad idea"

there's this post, which says paperblade is scum (fine)

this post disagrees with BBM's case on me, but doesn't give an opinion one way or another.

this one says that paperblade is scummy for jumping on SB

this post says "his reversal seems a little off but nothing scummy", where "a little off" actually means "a little scummy" ???

here, we have "shin needs to come back".

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and then there's the case on me which i think is bad but whatever.

so, to conclude: izhuark's posted opnions are "bbm's initial vote on cam was weird logic", "paperblade is scummy" and "cam is scum"

what happened to paperblade anyway? why does paperblade just disappear from the face of the planet as far as "people that are scummy" goes? i think paperblade is playing more passively than i remember, but that doesn't mean that much. paper do you actually have a lynch opinion?

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@Paperblade idk I'm very conflicted about Izhuark and I've waffled a lot. I think his posts are pretty bad and focus on semantics and how people word things rather than what they actually mean- eg the whole bit about what scum would do vs what town wouldnt do. But his tone feels genuinely frustrated and I just feel like I've seen this script of the inexperienced player flailing around and getting mislynched day 1. I also think scum would be less stubborn in this situation? 

Cam is generally low activity as either alignment so I don't think his high effort is alignment indicative. 

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2 hours ago, CT075 said:

"town bbm wouldn't do it" is literally the same thing as "scum bbm would"

fucking of course scum BBM wants to seem town. How does swapping from SB to me make scum!BBM seem town?

Wait, I know I answered this.  I basically said "his SB case was very weak, and his Cam case was good".  The reason I read it as scummy was it didn't read to me like he changed his mind on SB or followed up on it in any meaningful way.

2 hours ago, Izhuark said:

For the third time i don't think refa ever meant that BBM was scum but that i was bothering him. Even then there never really was a real SB wagon (wich you seem to think a lot) so scum!BBM could have a lot of reasons to change his vote like trying to get a better case than the one on SB that was pretty weak anyway. But if we think as town if we ignore the explanation that refa missed there was not a lot of reasons for BBM to change vote on you wich is easy to understand why it would not necessarily be scummy but bothering

Nah, I definitely meant it was scummy.  The only reason I got off of him so quickly was because I misread what he said.

1 hour ago, CT075 said:

like, "getting of SB" is a reasonable thing for scum!BBM to do. "getting off SB and onto me" is not -- why not get onto, say, paperblade, or you, both of whom would have been easier targets?

For the record, if BBM had a better case on literally anyone else, I still would have voted him.  Although if he cased Paperblade, I'd seriously question it considering Paperblade had even less content to go off of than SB.

Why are you guys talking about my vote like I'm not even there anyways?  It's fucking weird.  Just talk to me or vote me if you have an issue with my vote.

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3 minutes ago, CT075 said:

i can do whatever i want; it's bad when i did it too.

 

this is a ridiculous point. town playing badly exists, and more importantly it doesn't make sense as a scum move.

 

it's almost like the quotes you were responding to were made during ED1?

 

 

this is completely ridiculous. if i were scum, i gained nothing by having stuck to you for that long. look at the timing of those posts; paperblade posted way later into the day, and i'm still pretty sure that the three of us are the only ones who even remotely consider you a lynch target.

1. So what did both us did ? Argue on each other case and on semantic, your other interactions were minor at best. I wont say that you started it but your at least as much to blame than me on this so don't make it look like it's all my fault.

2.We already had this discussion for me making no sense as town is at least as scummy as making sense for scum if not more. I told you why i thouht it made sense as scummy but you ignored it, like 70% of my posts anyway.

3. Your actual read on me evolved so little since that they could seriously  be from ED1 it would be the same.

4. He says when voting on one of the main wagons. There are a lot of other person that actually consider me as a viable lynch target like shin or prims, BBM even said a lynch on me wouldn't bother him. So yeah scum would gain nothing from voting excep lynching town of course but what scum would want to do that ?

@Prims I had no other reads other than a minor read on paperblade. I need to read gaius posts again to confirm this but i would not be against his lynch he did nothing to help town and his overall inactivity doesn't help.

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