Revival of Mafia Mafia- Day 3

[BBM]

I don't have a real opinion on Paper atm.

my initial reason for voting SB was that it seemed like he was voting Shin for a reason that could have applied for a while, so it did seem opportunistic, but as a vote just to get reactions it's ~ok~

##Unvote, ##Vote: Cam

reading back his Paper vote sort of bothers me because it's not like Paper said people were scummy or bad for voting Shin for his supposed scumslip; he was just like "I don't agree with this". Cam didn't vote Shin over it either so presumably he had the same opinion as Paper, so voting him seems kind of weird?

[Izhuark]

Then why would you say "would or would not do" except for proving me that you read my post without paying any attention. Yeah it don't mean SB is town and i never argued that, it's just means that the reason for you vote is very weak and based on past occurences.

[Paperblade]

I don't see how that contradicts what I said in my last post

[Izhuark]

Then your last post as no point. Discussion endend

To get back on the actual game, could you expand on why cam is scummy bbm ? Your post is more based around paperblade and i don't see what cam did that was scummy for you except spoofing around. (Wich could be a valid reason anyway)

[CT075]

2 hours ago, Izhuark said:

Well it doesn't seem that opportunistic to me, i must agree with SB on that one. That Day one was slowest ever and we needed to get it started. There are no reason for mafia to put someone in hammer range without actually hammering them (and even then it's pretty dum), yeah they could bait a towny to put suspicion on him but that will never happen ED1.

whoa whoa whoa what

how can you say this and then say that paperblade is scummy for doing the same thing? this feels like a really weak way to jump on what appears to be a counterwagon

##Unvote

##Vote Izhuark

[CT075]

oh there's another page

[CT075]

...right multiquoting is cancer so i'm going to be spamposting instead

 

1 hour ago, BBM said:

reading back his Paper vote sort of bothers me because it's not like Paper said people were scummy or bad for voting Shin for his supposed scumslip; he was just like "I don't agree with this". Cam didn't vote Shin over it either so presumably he had the same opinion as Paper, so voting him seems kind of weird?

at the time, shin was at L-2 (i think?). i also probalby would have voted shin if i were around (talk is cheap, etc etc). i also was an idiot and thought paperblade had voted for SB

[CT075]

53 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

Then your last post as no point. Discussion endend

yeah okay i'm fine with my vote

"discussion ended" is a terrible way to actually end a discussion, and you move away to talk about BBM with your vote still on paperblade? Is the discussion over or not?

[CT075]

man i was about to make a big post but rich text editor sucks so i won't

[Izhuark]

What ? Can you explain me when SB was in hammer range ? If i found paperblade scummy it's because the reasons for his vote seem weak a best and irrelevant at worst while seeming confident about it. Yes this is not a big scum read but it's the most suceptible one i have.

Seriously you keep your  vote me on my "discussion ended" ? You know i did that because the discussion was pointless anyway and that it was getting on my nerve right ?

[CT075]

2 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

t was getting on my nerve right ?

this is not a good reason

[Izhuark]

Well for me and my sanity it's a good reason. You should at the very least read the discussion before saying it should not be ended because you clearly didn't, it was going nowhere and wasn't pointing finger on anyone neither SB paperblade or me. I just started it to point out paperblade reasons for voting made no sense on itself.

[BBM]

@Cam- i don't get what izhuark did that was hypocritical? how is what paperblade did similar to what SB did? also you were around to vote Shin for it, before he was at L-2. You RVS voted SB instead.

[CT075]

9 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

Well for me and my sanity it's a good reason

then walk away and stop playing for a few hours if it's causing you that many problems

10 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

wasn't pointing finger on anyone neither SB paperblade or me

you're voting paperblade.

if it's going nowhere, walk away and ignore it. "this discussion has ended" accomplishes nothing except make it seem like more has been concluded than it has

13 minutes ago, Izhuark said:

You should at the very least read the discussion before saying it should not be ended because you clearly didn't,

i also really don't like how izhuark's default response is to "you didn't read it" -- that sounds fine and dandy but it's a nice way to shut down an argument without actually doing anything

 

 

@BBM -- that was before prims claimed numbers?

[CT075]

speaking of walking away, i think i'm gonna do that for a while; i have an assignment due tomorrow and trying to parse izhuark's posts is giving me a headache

[Izhuark]

Okay i know mafia is not a game were you offer flower but that's just rude and add nothing to the game. Please refrain to do that.

 

[Izhuark]

Sigh, anyway. Sorry to everyone if my post are uselessly convoluted or if my bad grammar make my incomprehensible but the fact that we can't edit doesn't help.

1. It does not cause me problems i just find some reactions like the one you had right know at best inconsiderate for the other player and at worst middly insulting while adding nothing to the game but frustration and I think i shouldn't be treated like a crybaby for thinking so.

2. The discussion wasn't about paperblade himself. It was about the reasons mafia could have to put someone at hammer range just after RVS. So stop making it look like it was a case on paper blade when it obviously wasn't.

3.I really don't like how cam start talking about me at the third person when all the rest of his message was adressing me directly. If i wanted to bad mouth him i would say it was for making the interlocutor look scummy when they are no real reason to it. Anyway if i said "you clearly didn't [read it]" it was because i genuinely don't see how you could have a seriously read the discussion and argue  it was important to continue.

[Sunwoo]

##Unvote

The early breaking-out-of-RVS stuff reads as relatively routine. SB's reasoning for voting Shin and Paperblade's reason for voting SB don't really bother me. But I don't agree with the votes on Paperblade, I feel it's blowing his actions out of proportion. That said, I'm currently reading SB and Paper as townies arguing over actions trying to break out of RVS.

##Vote: Izuhark

His vote on Paperblade seems especially bad. Is Paperblade actually scummy for what he said? Also, dismissing possibilities because "no sane town/mafia/person would do it" is not a good argument, especially considering that SF as a whole have proved that we are that incompetent. It feels like shutting down discussions based on hypotheticals.

[Refa]

Cam, why did you vote Paper?  He just said "I don't think this is scummy" and you were like "well it's fine for ED1" and that translates to a vote how?

Paper, if SB's vote was super opportunistic, why didn't you vote him an hour before you made that post?

Boron, how do neither of SB's or Paper's reasoning bother you?  They're contradicting each other, so it stands to reason that you'd at least disagree with one.  Actually, you voted SB, so his vote at some point had to have bothered you.  Don't like how you dismissed your vote without any sort of followup.  Additionally, how is SB's reasoning for voting Paperblade better than Izhuark's (because they're using very similar reasoning)?  How is Izhuark's worse than Cam's (the only Paperblade vote that bothers me)?

Don't like BBM's switch off of SB because he doesn't actually give a reason for doing it.  Despite getting reactions from SB, I still don't know what his current opinion is on the slot.  Logic for the Cam vote is fine, but I don't get why he couldn't have made it at the time.  Overall, this reads to me as him wanting to switch off of SB and creating a new case to do so.   Those aren't really scummy on their own, but together it bothers me.

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

[Sunwoo]

The reason SB and Paper's reasonings don't bother me is because they both read as "breaking out of RVS" reasons with a slightly exaggerated degree of suspicion in the hopes of generating serious discussion. I'm just not really getting scum intent from either one right now.

Izuhark's reasoning bothers me more because I can't really see why he's voting Paperblade. His vote feels tacked on and not well explained. I also don't like the way he is throwing around appeal to emotion, it feels like he's trying to get people to back off. Cam's vote on Paperblade, once again, reads as if trying to get out of RVS. 

[Izhuark]

I don't think paperblade is ultimately scum but his the one for now that seemed the more scummy to me. Since we are still ED1 i don't think that struggling to have reads is in itself scummy, yeah you could argue that at least Paperblade is confident about it when i'm just frustrated but for me it seemed rather suspicious from him to jump on SB with no real reason except "Shin is always misslych" when Shin was never in danger in the first place. 

Also i don't quite agree on the "blowing out of proportion". Even if i respect that you think Paperblade don't have enough reasons to be considered scummy it's not like he have a bangwagon on his head it's just 2 vote, i hardly see how it became too big. It's more the little  fuse between me and paperblade  then the argument with cam that got out of hand.

Please don't make me come back on this discussion, once again i don't have anything to hide about it it just that it annoys me because I find it pointless now. I don't see how me saying that i found the idea of town hammering people at rvs ridiculous is scummy, yeah it could happen but are we really here to discuss extremely corner case scenario ?

-------------

Wow , that is some great post refa. I forgot how concise you could be. 

I don't really understand BBM problem with Cam though i don't see where he said what bothered him. I asked him but it was lost in my arguments, can you help me on that one ? Was it  just the activity of cam at the time ?

[Izhuark]

Okay it's just that my posts are convoluted and so nobody understand my point across again it seems >_>

What am i supposed to do about it seriously? 

[Refa]

^^BBM's problem with Cam is Cam's Paper vote.  I have the same issue and BBM even explained it better than me, so it's aight in my books.

1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

The reason SB and Paper's reasonings don't bother me is because they both read as "breaking out of RVS" reasons with a slightly exaggerated degree of suspicion in the hopes of generating serious discussion. I'm just not really getting scum intent from either one right now.

Izuhark's reasoning bothers me more because I can't really see why he's voting Paperblade. His vote feels tacked on and not well explained. I also don't like the way he is throwing around appeal to emotion, it feels like he's trying to get people to back off. Cam's vote on Paperblade, once again, reads as if trying to get out of RVS. 

If SB's reasoning didn't bother you, why did you vote him in the first place?

What confuses me is how you can excuse SB and Cam for trying to get out of RVS but aren't considering the possibility that Izhuark did the same thing.  Maybe there's something that makes Izhuark's vote worse but I'm not seeing it.  I'm also not bothered by his later posts (if he was trying to get votes off of him as opposed to ending a pedantic discussion, I would be), but that's beside the point.

[Izhuark]

Oh okay, i see now. Tbh cam's paperblade vote did'nt bothered me because it was in the same "we must get out of rvs" logic than most of us but it's true that his reversal seemed a little off but nothing scummy imho. 

[Prims]

Not feeling a Paper lynch yet. Izhuark is overly dedicated to arguing this though and I'm reading that as townie getting hung up on a point? I'm not 100% sure on this and I'll be keeping an eye out but I don't really want to lynch him as is.

I still like my Shin vote. I think moving a vote off of not-you onto you is the worst thing in this thread so far even if Shin likes self-voting. I'm not taking the "scumslip" seriously but FWIW there really are 9 town and 3 scum. I just kept 9-scum 3-town mistake when posting because it was funny.

I'm also irked by Zeonth's post here where the joke about not wanting to be seen scummy rubs me the wrong way because even if he's kidding I think scum is more likely to be thinking about that early on. Need him to post again. Nothing else strikes me as overtly scummy so far.