A PSA from your FE Warriors Editor

[Jave]

4 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Also I would like to say sorry if I came off generally too strongly in that OP, if you have your reasons for not supporting it, power to you. It might not appeal to you roster or gameplay wise, I just wanted to try to help a potential spinoff franchise I know I'll like. 

I don't know if anyone in this thread should apologize, but I'm sure it shouldn't be you.

[NoirCore]

I'm in. I'm expressing my wish to buy this game.

I lack a Switch at the moment, and I may get Splatoon 2 first, but I WANT to get a copy of this game and help the cause to get this a sequel. This is the first FE game with live-time combat instead of watching battles unfold like you're a sports coach, and I don't want to risk this being the last.

I get it; there's plenty of universes currently omitted, and there's plenty from said universes I'd love to see in the game. I also see that Rowan and Lianna aren't too liked (though, I personally don't get what's so bad about the designs, and below-average VA work never fazed me anyway). But I want to support this game, because this is possibly the best way we can get more characters beyond Archanea, Ylisse/Valm and Hoshido/Nohr beyond possible DLC to join this experience, even if it has to be in a sequel. Better than them never getting in at all in my book.

[Jedi]

1 minute ago, Jave said:

I don't know if anyone in this thread should apologize, but I'm sure it shouldn't be you.

Just covering my bases honestly, I wasn't sure if my emotions had gotten the better of me. 

Whatever news comes around i'll be sure to keep doing it for the fine folks here, I just had to get this out haha. I felt it was the RIGHT THING TO DO! 

[The DanMan]

Honestly, (to vent about the roster for the first time since the reveal) they don't need to include all the lords. DQHeroes avoided including the series' MCs because they're all self-insert sword lords who don't offer anything in the way of character or gameplay. Pick the most popular sword lords who also fill different niches (Marth: fencer, Roy: fire, Lyn: flashy swordmaster stuff, Ike: pure power, Chrom: jack of all trades, done) while having the likes of Ephraim, Hector, and Micaiah in the wings who have plenty of uniqueness to them. Will there be salt? Of course! There's always going to be salt.

A broad sampling focused on unique capabilities over pure popularity would work wonders. Give us some oddball and unexpected characters, they'll be quirky and unique. 
The image that's being painted seems like Koei jumped to a limiting factor to kick-start development and then IS kinda strong-armed them from there. 

32 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Maybe I am shilling, but I love both of these franchises and I want it to succeed regardless of the cost or my image. 

The blame will also be on the general FE fanbase being generally unpleasant elitists. Have you seen our public image? Its generally horrible and for good reason outside of SF (mostly).

Yes. And it's largely, IMO, unwarranted nowadays. Who in their right mind uses gamefaqs and youtube comments as a metric for judging groups of people? I've been semi-active on the subreddit for a good few months and the amount of genuinely unpleasant people there can be listed on one hand. There's far more frustrating stuff from the newer folks. Most of the really shitty old guard got seemingly driven out years ago. I'm really against judging fanbases as a whole anyways just because there's so many people and subsets to them.

Hyrule Warriors, besides the "herp derp warriors games suck" mentality popping up here and there, was met fairly positively overall. Limiting games worked much better there because there's just a few checkmarks you need to hit: Link, Zelda, and Gannondorf. Yeah, that approach did cause some negativity as it came down the line, but they'd established enough goodwill and sales to crank out DLC for over a year after release and address most of those complaints.

FEW? As I mentioned in a PM, everywhere I've gone there's been cynicism and negativity surrounding it. And as @Thane mentioned, the PR hasn't helped things-- coming off as hypocritical and tone-deaf. When even the gaming press is raising eyebrows and/or making fun of your decisions and statements, you've done goofed. The potential for the game to fail to meet sales expectations, I'd say, is perfectly realistic. And they'll have shot themselves in the foot-- if they don't blow off the whole leg (being spinoff titles for the series).

*sigh* And I say all this as somebody who's going to buy the game if I get my hands on a Switch.

Edited July 15, 2017 by The DanMan

[Lightchao42]

11 minutes ago, Jave said:

Actually, I'm willing to bet if the three universes featured in the game were Elibe/Magvel/Tellius with all the others confirmed not to be in, the complaining would be even larger. Yes, even here. I don't know why people think that Awakening/Fates fans don't post on the Internet. I see them everywhere I go.

Heck, Tumblr and Twitter would be a freaking shitstorm in that scenario, I can assure you that.

I know that people would complain (probably more than there are now), but I mostly meant that the "hardcore" fanbase on Serenes and the reddit would complain less. I mentioned "the Internet" because I didn't want to seem like I was calling out Serenes in particular.

11 minutes ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

Admittedly, they haven't handled the cast well up until now, and I'm certain no one would've complained (as much) if the game was just a collection of Lords from all games, swords be damned, but you can't fault them for taking this course, from a sales standpoint. 

True (but we can't tell how the cast was handled yet), but the developers placed an emphasis on the weapon triangle as one of the main gameplay mechanics, which clearly wouldn't work if 90% of the roster mainly used swords.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Lightchao42

[Refa]

I'll buy it if Corrin uses their bloody chainsaw sword like an actual chainsaw.

[Anacybele]

7 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Honestly, (to vent about the roster for the first time since the reveal) they don't need to include all the lords. DQHeroes avoided including the series' MCs because they're all self-insert sword lords who don't offer anything in the way of character or gameplay. Pick the most popular sword lords who also fill different niches (Marth: fencer, Roy: fire, Lyn: flashy swordmaster stuff, Ike: pure power, Chrom: jack of all trades, done) while having the likes of Ephraim, Hector, and Micaiah in the wings who have plenty of uniqueness to them. Will there be salt? Of course! There's always going to be salt.

Yeah, this. Though you could argue fire for Ike as well because Hero of Blue Flames. :P It IS more Roy's thing, but still. And for Fates, Corrin still brings her dragon form too.

[Jedi]

2 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Yes. And it's largely, IMO, unwarranted nowadays. Who in their right mind uses gamefaqs and youtube comments as a metric for judging groups of people? I've been semi-active on the subreddit for a good few months and the amount of genuinely unpleasant people there can be listed on one hand. There's far more frustrating stuff from the newer folks. Most of the really shitty old guard got seemingly driven out years ago. I'm really against judging fanbases as a whole anyways just because there's so many people and subsets to them.

Hyrule Warriors, besides the "herp derp warriors games suck" mentality popping up here and there, was met fairly positively overall. Limiting games worked much better there because there's just a few checkmarks you need to hit: Link, Zelda, and Gannondorf. Yeah, that approach did cause some negativity as it came down the line, but they'd established enough goodwill and sales to crank out DLC for over a year after release and address most of those complaints.

FEW? As I mentioned in a PM, everywhere I've gone there's been cynicism and negativity surrounding it. And as @Thane mentioned, the PR hasn't helped things-- coming off as hypocritical and tone-deaf. When even the gaming press is raising eyebrows and/or making fun of your decisions and statements, you've done goofed. The potential for the game to fail to meet expectations, I'd say, is pretty realistic. And they'll have shot themselves in the foot-- if they don't blow off the whole leg (being spinoff titles for the series).

*sigh* And I say all this as somebody who's going to buy the game if I get my hands on a Switch.

I'm not only judging from gamefaqs and youtube, that would be silly, but just the plain reaction you get from being an FE fan these days bring back my bad memories of being laughed off sites and such for being a Sonic fan, and as such its a trigger for me to see people that could give others the wrong impression and this fanbase has quite a number and I know not everyone is gonna be bad about it. Theres tons of great people, just look here and somewhat on the reddit I guess, but the more the fanbase grows the more negative people that we're going to get as well, the Yin & Yang of a large fanbase really. 

The PR, has been done poorly I can agree there, at least we can be glad its not on the same tier as Earthbounds horrendous marketing I guess haha.

[Anacybele]

23 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Just covering my bases honestly, I wasn't sure if my emotions had gotten the better of me. 

Whatever news comes around i'll be sure to keep doing it for the fine folks here, I just had to get this out haha. I felt it was the RIGHT THING TO DO! 

Oh yeah, you do that, Jedi! And I've been wanting to help spread the news too. I just seem to be asleep every time it comes out... >_<

[Jave]

12 minutes ago, The DanMan said:

Yes. And it's largely, IMO, unwarranted nowadays. Who in their right mind uses gamefaqs and youtube comments as a metric for judging groups of people? I've been semi-active on the subreddit for a good few months and the amount of genuinely unpleasant people there can be listed on one hand. There's far more frustrating stuff from the newer folks. Most of the really shitty old guard got seemingly driven out years ago. I'm really against judging fanbases as a whole anyways just because there's so many people and subsets to them.

I disagree it's unwarranted because I don't really feel we've gotten better as a fanbase. With FEW, I can certainly understand the disappointment with roster decisions and the generally bad PR, but at the same time, I feel a lot of fans, even here, have handled this situation with excessive negativity and cynicism to the point I really can't blame outsiders to think negatively of us. Heck, I still remember some of the initial reactions to the confirmation of a Archanea/Ylisse/Fates-only roster. Some of that stuff was pretty... volatile.

And I think the biggest problem with that is not a matter of reputation, but the fact it has made discussion about this game in general very frustrating. It feels that every thread about FEW at some point devolves into discussion of "Stupid roster decisions" or stuff like that. It's like I see a new thread, read the OP, and get excited, but then I read the rest of the thread and suddenly all the excitement is gone, and I'm not even in the mood to reply.

[The DanMan]

17 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I'm not only judging from gamefaqs and youtube, that would be silly, but just the plain reaction you get from being an FE fan these days bring back my bad memories of being laughed off sites and such for being a Sonic fan, and as such its a trigger for me to see people that could give others the wrong impression and this fanbase has quite a number and I know not everyone is gonna be bad about it. Theres tons of great people, just look here and somewhat on the reddit I guess, but the more the fanbase grows the more negative people that we're going to get as well, the Yin & Yang of a large fanbase really. 

The PR, has been done poorly I can agree there, at least we can be glad its not on the same tier as Earthbounds horrendous marketing I guess haha.

I'm not saying it's you that does that-- I'm saying that to find the actual nasty stuff you have to go there nowadays. Actual dedicated FE groups tend to be much better. And it's exactly that: the Yin and Yang of a large fanbase. That's kinda why I don't like talking about fandoms in general. And for what its worth, some would love to argue we're worse than the Sonic fandom. 

Earthbound was reverse psychology from a Nintendo that went full 90's backfiring horribly. (At least that's what it looks like now-- I wasn't around then.)

6 minutes ago, Jave said:

I disagree it's unwarranted because I don't really feel we've gotten better as a fanbase. With FEW, I can certainly understand the disappointment with roster decisions and the generally bad PR, but at the same time, I feel a lot of fans, even here, have handled this situation with excessive negativity and cynicism to the point I really can't blame outsiders to think negatively of us. Heck, I still remember some of the initial reactions to the confirmation of a Archanea/Ylisse/Fates-only roster. Some of that stuff was pretty... volatile.

And I think the biggest problem with that is not a matter of reputation, but the fact it has made discussion about this game in general very frustrating. It feels that every thread about FEW at some point devolves into discussion of "Stupid roster decisions" or stuff like that. It's like I see a new thread, read the OP, and get excited, but then I read the rest of the thread and suddenly all the excitement is gone, and I'm not even in the mood to reply.

True, a few people do keep beating a dead horse. But I'd argue the dedicated FE groups have gotten better overall-- if you single out the loudest dissenters, yeah things are always going to look bad.

Edited July 15, 2017 by The DanMan

[Anacybele]

10 minutes ago, Jave said:

I disagree it's unwarranted because I don't really feel we've gotten better as a fanbase. With FEW, I can certainly understand the disappointment with roster decisions and the generally bad PR, but at the same time, I feel a lot of fans, even here, have handled this situation with excessive negativity and cynicism to the point I really can't blame outsiders to think negatively of us. Heck, I still remember some of the initial reactions to the confirmation of a Archanea/Ylisse/Fates-only roster. Some of that stuff was pretty... volatile.

And I think the biggest problem with that is not a matter of reputation, but the fact it has made discussion about this game in general very frustrating. It feels that every thread about FEW at some point devolves into discussion of "Stupid roster decisions" or stuff like that. It's like I see a new thread, read the OP, and get excited, but then I read the rest of the thread and suddenly all the excitement is gone, and I'm not even in the mood to reply.

You know, I kind of think Jave has a point here. Thinking more on it, I rather see where he's coming from. I don't go to Gamefaqs either, though I do go on Youtube. But even here I've seen just what he's describing. And it's not pleasant.

I will even admit myself that I was probably overly negative when that news on FE Warriors first came. And I feel bad about it now after hearing all this stuff from the developers and how some of their staff even had their own rage. This can't make things easy for the other devs at all. It's not right to act like that. And I apologize for my own actions.

Although, Jave, we also can't forget that every other fanbase will have some bad apples too.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Anacybele

[DancingDanny]

I'm really excited for FE:W! I've only played Hyrule Warriors (and like 30 minutes of Dynasty Warriors with my friend), but I really had fun with it! :)

Part of the reason I'm excited is the fact that I get to be a Fire Emblem character that I get to directly control. It's really cool doing that! :D

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm certainly rooting for this game to do well. Its the crossover I always dreamed of so I'd say I feel some investment in its success. Such a perfect combination not doing well would just feel wrong. 

With the current roster I definitely think this isn't going to be the fantastic game it should have been but that doesn't mean it can't still be good. If the game is good and sells well then we can expect a sequel that might still make the most of all the potential a Fire emblem Warriors has. The first game laying a solid foundation while the sequel improves greatly on the good that's already there wouldn't be a bad deal.   

[Emeraldfox]

I've been interested since day one. The roster isn't an issue(well, only character I want is Velouria), Corrin has actually grown on me and her gameplay looks neat. There is only one character between the three games that I dislike, but it won't kill me when they add him(Takumi).

[Arthur97]

1 hour ago, The DanMan said:

This post was going to be a lot longer, but it was basically "if this game fails IS and Ninty have nobody but themselves to blame (yet again)."

I doubt it will tank. It has the two most popular titles and Marth at the helm.

I will certainly be buying (Robin and Lucina made sure of that) and I really need something to play on my Switch. My brother (who doesn't play much Fire Emblem as apparently he likes the characters but doesn't care for that type of strategy) is even considering streaming it with me as a guest.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

The reality is, there are a lot of Fire Emblem fans who are very displeased about this game, especially when it comes to the roster. There's also plenty of people who are excited about it.

What's wrong with expressing one's displeasure and criticizing decisions made in making the game?

Sure, it lends itself to a negative atmosphere, but hey, there's a large amount of people who are critical about the game.

Just like people can express their excitement and postitivity about the game, so people can also express their disappointment and negativity.

At times I feel like some people would only want to hear the positive and would want everyone who is critical or disappointed to be quiet. That's just wrong. That's not how discussion forums work. People are free to express their opinions, positive or negative. If you want to express your excitement for the game, keep in mind that people who are disappointed in it have an equal right to express that too.

It goes both ways, positive or negative.

 

1 hour ago, BlizzardWolf95 said:

To be fair, with Warriors games, seeing gameplay is nowhere near indicative of how good the game will play. When I first saw gameplay of SW4? I quite honestly though it was shit, but upon playing it, having the character's actions in my hands, it felt so good. It's the kind of series that you can't just watch, as all the cathartic feelings are trasferred through your own choices in the battle. Warriors games far too often get labelled as mindless, but I think it's the exact opposite. Playing these games while being mindless will get you Game Overs screens quick. 

I will say that while I'm annoyed that in recent Warriors titles (Berserk, Hyrule, SW4), getting 1000 kills is an expectation, where as older games make it feel like a true accomplishment, and FEW seems to be going off the new age of things, it seems like the enemy density plays into that a lot, and the KO count in FEW shows that the Switch isn't slacking on processing power, which can only mean it'll be a quality experience, at least as far as Warriors games go.

I'm not meaning for this to change anyone's minds, but Warriors IS a series that generally isn't fun to watch, but is a blast to play, and I hope someone keeps that in mind when considering buying FEW.

 

Ideally there would be a demo of the game. Or, I could borrow Hyrule Warriors from a friend to try that out.

But in general, I'm not into that kind of game. IF I it had the GBA characters I liked, I might be interested in it. The gameplay just doesn't seem that appealing to me. For me, it's a game I have a very marginal interest in, and if it had my favorite characters that could be enough to get me to buy it. Without that, probably not.

The reasoning for the decision doesn't change the final result.

I love Fire Emblem and SRPGs... but a hack and slash action game with some FE characters... that's not really interesting to me.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Xaos Steel Wing

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'll be honest, "Fire Emblem Warriors Legends" is precisely the thing I had been worried about since they name dropped Shadow Dragon, Awakening, and Fates. I tried to keep quiet since I didn't want people to be down on this game too early due to "what ifs". But seriously, why buy this game when the better game with more content is coming next year? It's a gross practice, a second game will always sell much better than DLC packs. We'll justify our purchase with "well at least it's a new game and I can play as Lyn in this one".

Of course, none of this is confirmed, and I don't really find this quote from the interview particularly suspect. Not as damning as the case example of Hyrule Warriors Legends. And if we don't buy the first game, then there won't be a second game that we really want. Either the fans come out the loser, or everybody comes out a loser. It sucks.

[omegaxis1]

You guys are still complaining about the game and mentioning how the sequel is like some hostage, but most of you guys aren't even realizing that it isn't just US that are upset at the fact that only Awakening, Fates, and SD are in the series. The developers literally mentioned in the interview that even THEY were upset. Some argued, and even threatened to rage quit if "this and that" didn't happen or didn't get in. 

You guys have to realize that the developers are also fans and they actually also have the same opinions that we do. They aren't happy that only three titles were able to make it into the series. They themselves wanted more. There are surely Tellius series fans, Elibe series fans, hell, probably even Jugdral fans, that probably wanted to bring in their series to be part of it. But they couldn't in the end.

There are tricky things and marketing strategies that many of us aren't even capable of comprehending. But we have to realize that the devs aren't out to get us, because they are also human and act like we do, since they themselves are also fans of the series.

[Anacybele]

12 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

The reality is, there are a lot of Fire Emblem fans who are very displeased about this game, especially when it comes to the roster. There's also plenty of people who are excited about it.

What's wrong with expressing one's displeasure and criticizing decisions made in making the game?

Sure, it lends itself to a negative atmosphere, but hey, there's a large amount of people who are critical about the game.

Just like people can express their excitement and postitivity about the game, so people can also express their disappointment and negativity.

At times I feel like some people would only want to hear the positive and would want everyone who is critical or disappointed to be quiet. That's just wrong. That's not how discussion forums work. People are free to express their opinions, positive or negative. If you want to express your excitement for the game, keep in mind that people who are disappointed in it have an equal right to express that too.

It goes both ways, positive or negative.

You're right, but as said before, it's the way people express this that bothers us. I'm even still trying to learn to do this better myself, and as I said before, I admit to probably being guilty of that behavior in the past. And if I am, I don't want to behave like that anymore.

There's a difference between something like...

"It's rather disappointing not to see characters from other games in this."

And...

"No Ike or Lyn?! What fucking bullshit is this?! This game is shit!"

You know?

[ChibiToastExplosion]

I'm getting this game day 1 - and probably for both systems, even though I said I would do my best not to. The idea I can play as Camus (or at least Xander, I'll get 1 blonde Paladin at the very least) is just too appealing to me.

Archanea is my jam, so I can deal with Awakening/Fates bias. I am a bit of a completionist though, or at least I try, so I hope it's not too much like HW in the sense that you are forced to use certain characters in the adventure maps (if there are any). Agitha was not my cup of tea.

I'm still hoping for Roy, and I'm sure at least one of my favorites isn't going to make it, but I never expected the entire roster to cater to my tastes - that was selfish. As it stands, Marth & Xander is enough to justify my purchase. Of course I'm hoping for more, though.

[Emeraldfox]

21 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

The reality is, there are a lot of Fire Emblem fans who are very displeased about this game, especially when it comes to the roster. There's also plenty of people who are excited about it.

What's wrong with expressing one's displeasure and criticizing decisions made in making the game?

Sure, it lends itself to a negative atmosphere, but hey, there's a large amount of people who are critical about the game.

Just like people can express their excitement and postitivity about the game, so people can also express their disappointment and negativity.

At times I feel like some people would only want to hear the positive and would want everyone who is critical or disappointed to be quiet. That's just wrong. That's not how discussion forums work. People are free to express their opinions, positive or negative. If you want to express your excitement for the game, keep in mind that people who are disappointed in it have an equal right to express that too.

It goes both ways, positive or negative.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the hate this game will still get from the same people two years from now.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

12 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

You're right, but as said before, it's the way people express this that bothers us. I'm even still trying to learn to do this better myself, and as I said before, I admit to probably being guilty of that behavior in the past. And if I am, I don't want to behave like that anymore.

There's a difference between something like...

"It's rather disappointing not to see characters from other games in this."

And...

"No Ike or Lyn?! What fucking bullshit is this?! This game is shit!"

You know?

I can get that. I try to keep my criticism reasonable and meritorious. It's just, if there's so much negativity and cynicism... there's got to be a reason for that.

When FEW was announced I was really hyped at being able to play as some of my favorite characters like Lyn, Hector, Eirika, and Ephraim in full 3D action combat.

As time goes on, I find out it's more and more likely that won't happen... that the big draw and promise the game held for me isn't there... The reason I would have to buy game isn't there.

Worst case, I just won't buy it. It won't be that big of a loss, the Warriors gameplay probably ain't my thing anyway. Maybe they'll have some of those characters as DLC... that might change my mind.

I'm not going to hate the game or bash it for that, I'm sure it was a difficult decision to make in terms of the roster, but I can't help but be disappointed, and at this point I'm leaning towards not getting it, though there's still a lot left to be announced until the game is released.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who think likewise, who would have wanted to get the game mainly to play as some of their favorite FE characters in an action game, but if those characters aren't there, well, for some that could take away any excitement this game may have held.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Xaos Steel Wing

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Xaos Steel Wing said:

I can get that. I try to keep my criticism reasonable and meritorious. It's just, if there's so much negativity and cynicism... there's got to be a reason for that.

When FEW was announced I was really hyped at being able to play as some of my favorite characters like Lyn, Hector, Eirika, and Ephraim in full 3D action combat.

As time goes on, I find out it's more and more likely that won't happen... that the big draw and promise the game held for me isn't there... The reason I would have to buy game isn't there.

Worst case, I just won't buy it. It won't be that big of a loss, the Warriors gameplay probably ain't my thing anyway. Maybe they'll have some of those characters as DLC... that might change my mind.

I'm not going to hate the game or bash it for that, I'm sure it was a difficult decision to make in terms of the roster, but I can't help but be disappointed, and at this point I'm leaning towards not getting it, though there's still a lot left to be announced until the game is released.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who think likewise, who would have wanted to get the game mainly to play as some of their favorite FE characters in an action game, but if those characters aren't there, well, for some that could take away any excitement this game may have held.

That's very understandable. You have every right to be disappointed since your favorites aren't in the game. I would be disappointed too if my favorites weren't in the game, and might not want to really buy it. However, a part of me would want to still give it a chance and maybe see how they handle some characters. Maybe some characters I once disliked can be given in a new light that might make me like them a bit more. 

But the choice is yours in the end, cause its your money that's going into the game, and everyone wants their money to be well spent.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Maybe some characters I once disliked can be given in a new light that might make me like them a bit more.

Yeah. I can't say how many times I've done a run where characters that I didn't care for just "grew on me". I'm working on the hard/classic blitzkrieg in echoes, and my archer!Kliff & Lukas haven't been astounding, but Python and Forsyth have really been stepping it up - two guys I haven't used on my main file. I've always loved Python, but now I can appreciate Forsyth a lot more than before. And honestly, I love the game a lot more for it once I stepped outside my comfort box.

That's just one story of many. HW had a few guys that I ended up liking more than I normally would, like Ruto. It all depends, and sometimes trying something new is all people need to do. It doesn't always work, but approaching the game with an open mind really helps. If you decide you won't enjoy it before you pick up the controller, well, guess what:

You're not going to enjoy it.