Hero_Lucina

Fixing your least favorite/ favorite Character

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30 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Just erase Azura from existence. Please.
Her stupidity is unbearable, she doesn't contribute anything positive besides giving you a busted Midori stat-wise, is a complete waste of space gameplay-wise,

Buddy, Azura is incredibly useful in Conquest, especially on the higher difficulties. That extra turn is very useful.

41 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

she's the reason most of the conflict in Conquest and the entire conflict in Revelation happens in the first place.

I mean, if we're going to be technical, everything was Anankos' fault. But apparently, you're saying that Azura is the reason why Nohr invaded Hoshido in Conquest......even though Nohr would've done it anyway. And Revelation especially was Anankos' fault, since it was he who kickstarted the whole conflict.

33 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Stupidity:
1) Yeah, you sure feel safe around the guy / gal that went Hulk on a bunch of Vallites and then almost choked you to death, right?
2) If your shitty song injures you every time you sing it, then STOP SINGING IT! It's really that simple.

  1. It wasn't Corrin's fault. And said Vallites attacked them. You wanted the heroes to just stand there and do nothing?
  2. It actually isn't. They would've never escaped Fort Dragonfall in Birthright if Azura hadn't used her song.
36 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Also, don't try to tell me Azura can wipe out an entire platoon of Hoshidan soldiers by herself, Conquest. She can't. She just can't.

This never happened, wat?

37 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Instead of showing the stupid plot crystal to everyone, she just shows it to Corrin and no one else in Conquest and then shatters it. Until anyone proves the opposite to me: Azura shattered the plot crystal so that only Corrin could see the truth. She also refuses to reveal anything about Valla WHILE THEY ARE THERE. I can only assume she does this out of pure spite towards either Corrin or the kingdom of Hoshido.

She didn't it shatter it. It shattered itself. And she didn't tell Corrin about Valla because what good would it do at that point?

Crystal ball ex machinca was fucking stupid though, i agree.

40 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

the shittiest Fire Emblem character in history

That's actually Peri but ok.

Like, i get that you don't like Azura but a lot of it seems like you're just hating for the sake of hating. Like, i despise Sigurd and see him as the worst Lord in the series but i don't hate him for the sake of hating.

The way i see it, Azura has Two Character Syndrome (something that every main character in Fates has actually). Basically, there are actually two Azuras: Story!Azura and Support!Azura. Support!Azura is objectively the better of the two and the story would've benefited from having her. Story!Azura is the one that's written poorly.

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2 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Nice!


Of the male Royals, Leo bothers me the least, but I agree, the female Royals are leagues better than their male counterparts. Sakura and Elise in particular are two of my favourite characters in Fates.
The only thing I don't like about any of the Royals is that their retainers only exist to point out how awesome and amazing their lieges are.
People bash on Corrin for being a 'special snowflake' and praised anywhere and everywhere, but so are the Royals, especially the male ones. Maybe even to a larger dregree than Corrin themselves. To quote Mangs: 'Do you require a Royal Cockstroking, Sire?'

Like, I want to decide what characters I like and dislike myself. The constant: 'Oh, mylord / mylady [insert Royal here] is sooo awesome and sooo amazing! No one can EVER match his / her greatness!' really gets on your nerves fairly quickly.

Remove it or at least tone it down a few pegs and I'll be fine, thank you very much.
 

Laslow, Odin, and Selena probably had to be buttkissers or they wouldn't be taken as retainers, which I think was very important to their mission (whatever exactly their mission was, I still don't understand). The other retainers were in bad shape when they were recruited for the most part, Niles tried to rob the castle, Beruka tried to kill Camilla, Peri was a serial killer o_o, Effie was a relatively poor commoner, and Hana was vengeful and angry. They were redeemed through this job, or it least made them feel like they had a purpose.

I don't like the constant compliments, but I understand why the retainers are happy to serve, especially Camilla's retainers, who are doted on all the time like they're her newborn children, because that's what Camilla does :\

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27 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Laslow, Odin, and Selena probably had to be buttkissers or they wouldn't be taken as retainers, which I think was very important to their mission (whatever exactly their mission was, I still don't understand).

That's not really the case. They were taken as retainers under the strict orders of Garon. Both Leo and Xander imply to their retainers that their opinion wasn't taken into account and that they actually didn't really want them as retainers. Leo even says he tried getting rid of Odin. 

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42 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

The only thing I don't like about any of the Royals is that their retainers only exist to point out how awesome and amazing their lieges are.
People bash on Corrin for being a 'special snowflake' and praised anywhere and everywhere, but so are the Royals, especially the male ones. Maybe even to a larger dregree than Corrin themselves. To quote Mangs: 'Do you require a Royal Cockstroking, Sire?

I actually like how the close bond the royals have with their retainers reflect on their character. 

That Takumi is so close to his retainers is a good indication that he's a good guy once you get past the whole tsundere thing. With Camilla I'd say her bond with her retainers is downright vital to her character because it shows that she doesn't just dote on Corrin because he's the player character but that she does it to everyone she loves. 

Its when the relation seems rather impersonal like with Ryoma and his retainers that I think the lord and retainer set up starts to fail. 

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7 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's not really the case. They were taken as retainers under the strict orders of Garon. Both Leo and Xander imply to their retainers that their opinion wasn't taken into account and that they actually didn't really want them as retainers. Leo even says he tried getting rid of Odin. 

Ah, okay. I actually didn't know that. Why is it that Garon made them the retainers?

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9 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Ah, okay. I actually didn't know that. Why is it that Garon made them the retainers?

No idea. If I were to guess it would be due to the fact that Garon doesn't really care who his people are as long as they are powerful. He employs complete psychopaths and slum dwellers for that reason so recruiting a bunch of nobodies who prove to be powerful wouldn't be out of character for him.  

Its probably the one thing Nohr has going for it over Hoshido. In Hoshido the retainers are all nobles or from a long line of servant families but in Norh anyone can get a high rank. It may also be a negative because it leads to people like Hans, Iago and Peri having high ranking jobs. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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42 minutes ago, Hero_Lucina said:

That's basically Shinon.

True.

42 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Buddy, Azura is incredibly useful in Conquest, especially on the higher difficulties. That extra turn is very useful.
The only times she was ever truly relevant were Chapter 10 and the Endgame on my most recent Hard Mode playthrough. Every other time I either didn't field her or only used her to finish a map quicker.

I mean, if we're going to be technical, everything was Anankos' fault. But apparently, you're saying that Azura is the reason why Nohr invaded Hoshido in Conquest......even though Nohr would've done it anyway. And Revelation especially was Anankos' fault, since it was he who kickstarted the whole conflict.
While it was Anankos' fault, I do feel like Azura's suggestion to attack the Hoshidan and Nohrian commanders played a big part in branding Corrin a traitor, so from that viewpoint, it was her fault that the other Royals were so quick to mistrust Corrin in the first place.

  1. It wasn't Corrin's fault. And said Vallites attacked them. You wanted the heroes to just stand there and do nothing?
    While true, I don't really think it smart from Azura to be so quick to feel 'safe' around a person that went berserk not five minutes prior. On another note: How did she get her hands on a Dragon Stone?
  2. It actually isn't. They would've never escaped Fort Dragonfall in Birthright if Azura hadn't used her song.
    I will concede that point. However, she also did sing it for no reason on multiple occasions despite knowing what it did to her.

This never happened, wat?
It does happen. Watch the introduction to Ninja Hell (CQ Chapter 17) again: Azura will come up to Corrin and say (paraphrased): 'I have dispatched the enemy on my side as well'.

She didn't it shatter it. It shattered itself. And she didn't tell Corrin about Valla because what good would it do at that point?
Eh, the crystal in itself is a problem. Maybe my headcanon of Azura being an evil mastermind gets in the way sometimes.
Telling Corrin about Valla (and especially Anankos) could have possibly prevented Ryoma and Takumi dying horribly.

Crystal ball ex machinca was fucking stupid though, i agree.
Yup.

That's actually Peri but ok.
Eh, I at least get a chuckle out of her introduction. Her presence does invalidate Xander's good judgement and intelligence, though. Like we needed any more proof that Xander is an imbecile...

Like, i get that you don't like Azura but a lot of it seems like you're just hating for the sake of hating. Like, i despise Sigurd and see him as the worst Lord in the series but i don't hate him for the sake of hating.
Don't worry, I never hate for the sake of hating. In this particular case, it was a lot of built up frustration and this topic felt like a good opportunity to let it out and vent a bit.
I didn't play FE4, so I can't really judge Sigurd. I only know him from Awakening's DLC and as Alm and Celica have taught me, Awakening's DLC isn't the most reliable source on legacy characters. The fact that he apparently falls in love with and marries Deirdre (Diadora?) in the span of one Chapter seems pretty stupid, though.

The way i see it, Azura has Two Character Syndrome (something that every main character in Fates has actually). Basically, there are actually two Azuras: Story!Azura and Support!Azura. Support!Azura is objectively the better of the two and the story would've benefited from having her. Story!Azura is the one that's written poorly.
Elise and Sakura behave like they do in the story from what I can remember.
But you're right. If Azura was her support self, I would like her a lot more. Especially her supports with Keaton and Kaden illicit an 'Awww' from me.
On that note: It isn't just main characters, some side characters suffer from it as well. Compare Hana's behaviour towards Corrin during her introduction in Birthright and her behaviour in My Castle outside of the Private Quarters to her supports with Corrin. It's like she does a complete 180.

 

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27 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

While true, I don't really think it smart from Azura to be so quick to feel 'safe' around a person that went berserk not five minutes prior.

I think we can both agree that this is more of Fates' writing making everyone worship Corrin. Replace Azura with say, Sakura, and the same thing would've happened.

37 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

How did she get her hands on a Dragon Stone?

I don't know man. The better question is why does anything happen in this game? Listen, i love the "don't question it, just accept it" writing style (example: Doctor Who, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure) but it does not work in Fates (or Fire Emblem in general). I feel like Fates tried that writing style, but instead of being entertaining like in the examples i listed, it just leaves you asking questions that should've been answered.

 

28 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

It does happen. Watch the introduction to Ninja Hell (CQ Chapter 17) again: Azura will come up to Corrin and say (paraphrased): 'I have dispatched the enemy on my side as well'.

Ah that. Xander says it too and while he is a powerful warrior, he isn't soloing a platoon. This isn't Warriors. It makes more sense if you look at it as Azura and Xanders being commanders of their respective platoons. Then, it makes more sense. 

31 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Her presence does invalidate Xander's good judgement and intelligence, though.

I agree. Like, Xander is like "oh, watch out for Hans, he's a murderer". He says that while he has Peri, who i see as a slightly less violent Hans but is a "good girl" because the game demands it. It just makes Xander look hypocritical.

33 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

The fact that he apparently falls in love with and marries Deirdre (Diadora?) in the span of one Chapter seems pretty stupid, though.

Well, he does fall in love with Deirdre at first sight, but they get married in the time between Ch.1 and Ch.2. Which is like, a year. Time actually passes in FE4.

That's not why i don't like Sigurd though. I don't like him because he lacks personality. Back then, i also thought he was perfection incarnate but after discussions, i came to realize that he probably has the most flaws out of any Lord. But again, his lack of personality makes me not care.

Listen, i don't mind heavily flawed and perfection incarnate characters. Just give me a reason to care about them.

But hey, at least Manga Sigurd is actually a good character.

 

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5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

That's not why i don't like Sigurd though. I don't like him because he lacks personality. Back then, i also thought he was perfection incarnate but after discussions, i came to realize that he probably has the most flaws out of any Lord. But again, his lack of personality makes me not care.

 

Did lords have personality prior to Leif? I'm not being rhetorical here.

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Well, he does fall in love with Deirdre at first sight, but they get married in the time between Ch.1 and Ch.2. Which is like, a year. Time actually passes in FE4

I do like how the First Gen is actually realistic and it takes a while to complete time-wise. The 2nd Gen sadly ended its war in a year. IS is always so unrealistic about this. Real wars take a while, could you at least stretch it to two or three years? Seven as the max is fine.

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Ah that. Xander says it too and while he is a powerful warrior, he isn't soloing a platoon. This isn't Warriors. It makes more sense if you look at it as Azura and Xanders being commanders of their respective platoons. Then, it makes more sense. 

Azura has formal military training?

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2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Did lords have personality prior to Leif?

Marth, due to him having two games at the time.

Pre-Awakening Alm and Celica had no personality, but neither did anyone in Gaiden. 

Honestly, i found Seliph to have more personality than Sigurd.

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Azura has formal military training?

No but neither did Corrin honestly. Because like, sparring sessions with Xander and probably Gunter aside, i wouldn't make Corrin the leader of my army, given that he was locked up in a tower for most of his life.

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On 9/16/2017 at 10:39 PM, Armagon said:

I think we can both agree that this is more of Fates' writing making everyone worship Corrin. Replace Azura with say, Sakura, and the same thing would've happened.

I don't know man. The better question is why does anything happen in this game? Listen, i love the "don't question it, just accept it" writing style (example: Doctor Who, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure) but it does not work in Fates (or Fire Emblem in general). I feel like Fates tried that writing style, but instead of being entertaining like in the examples i listed, it just leaves you asking questions that should've been answered.

It's probably just dialogue to hint at the similar background they both share, it's hardly "worship" and I think that particular complaint is a bit of an exaggeration in general. 

Also, Azura having a Dragonstone makes sense when you consider who her father was (King of Valla after all)

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17 minutes ago, HylianBelmont said:

It's probably just dialogue to hint at the similar background they both share, it's hardly "worship" and I think that particular complaint is a bit of an exaggeration in general. 

Everyone except Takumi and a few select others (not counting villains) treats Corrin like he's Jesus, when he's done nothing to deserve it. If he actually proved his worth, then people would have less of an issue. 

20 minutes ago, HylianBelmont said:

Also, Azura having a Dragonstone makes sense when you consider who her father was (King of Valla after all)

That'd only make sense if her father was a Manakete, which would mean Azura's also a Manakete, and that isn't the case. 

Also, if Azura really did have a Dragonstone on her the entire time, then that's some next levels of plot convenience.

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20 hours ago, Armagon said:

Everyone except Takumi and a few select others (not counting villains) treats Corrin like he's Jesus, when he's done nothing to deserve it. If he actually proved his worth, then people would have less of an issue. 

Also, if Azura really did have a Dragonstone on her the entire time, then that's some next levels of plot convenience.

I meant more the Valla royal bloodline was close to "you know who"

Anyway... I'll respect your opinion but honestly I just don't think the "worship" is as big a thing as some people actually make it out to be, that's all. The only two characters I can honestly think of who do sorta act that are Kana and Rhajat (You could "maybe" argue Caeldori too, but that was due to Subaki himself overhyping Corrin because he was too nervous about teaching her himself)  and even then it makes sense considering their reasons. Aside from them the rest of the Fates second gen (who IMO, Corrin has better supports with compared to the first gen overall) just treat him/her like any other friend in most cases. And Hell, Shiro even challenged M!Corrin's ideals in their supports IIRC.

Hopefully you get where I'm coming from here!

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39 minutes ago, HylianBelmont said:

Anyway... I'll respect your opinion but honestly I just don't think the "worship" is as big a thing as some people actually make it out to be, that's all. The only two characters I can honestly think of who do sorta act that are Kana and Rhajat (You could "maybe" argue Caeldori too, but that was due to Subaki himself overhyping Corrin because he was too nervous about teaching her himself)  and even then it makes sense considering their reasons. Aside from them the rest of the Fates second gen (who IMO, Corrin has better supports with compared to the first gen overall) just treat him/her like any other friend in most cases. And Hell, Shiro even challenged M!Corrin's ideals in their supports IIRC.

Hopefully you get where I'm coming from here!

You bring up the Supports but you have to remember that there are two different Corrins in Fates: Story!Corrin and Support!Corrin. We are talking about Story!Corrin here. With Story!Corrin, no one ever questions him. No one ever asks if he's truly doing the right right thing. Nope, none of that. Instead, everyone falls in love with him at first sight (not necessarily romantically but you get the point). He shows up in Hoshido after being gone for so long, and everyone except Takumi kisses his feet. Takumi was the only reasonable guy here, because it makes absolute sense to not trust someone, even if he was your brother, who was raised in the enemy country for most of his life.

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On 9/20/2017 at 11:22 AM, Armagon said:

You bring up the Supports but you have to remember that there are two different Corrins in Fates: Story!Corrin and Support!Corrin. We are talking about Story!Corrin here. With Story!Corrin, no one ever questions him. No one ever asks if he's truly doing the right right thing. Nope, none of that. Instead, everyone falls in love with him at first sight (not necessarily romantically but you get the point). He shows up in Hoshido after being gone for so long, and everyone except Takumi kisses his feet. Takumi was the only reasonable guy here, because it makes absolute sense to not trust someone, even if he was your brother, who was raised in the enemy country for most of his life.

I do still think Takumi was being a bit of twat regardless, including unnecessarily being a jerk to Azura who HAD been there for a while (which he himself acknowledges later on) but I do understand your perspective as well. Even if I don't entirely agree with it.

On a side note, I've seen the whole "the Story and Support versions are totally different characters!" opinion for Xander once or twice before. But never with Corrin until now, haha. 

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