Jump to content

Witches and Gender


Recommended Posts

A friend of mine with only passing familiarity with Echoes wants to explore witches in the Fates universe, and has asked if there is some gender limitation to the witch process in-universe. It occurs to me I have no idea myself- I know witches are female-only, but I don't recall the game ever explaining why, or if Arcanists can be considered male witches in the plot department.

Is it just because, or is there some reason for witches to be female-only?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, phineas81707 said:

A friend of mine with only passing familiarity with Echoes wants to explore witches in the Fates universe, and has asked if there is some gender limitation to the witch process in-universe. It occurs to me I have no idea myself- I know witches are female-only, but I don't recall the game ever explaining why, or if Arcanists can be considered male witches in the plot department.

Is it just because, or is there some reason for witches to be female-only?

In game Witches are described as being women who have sacrificed their soul to Duma in exchange for power.  Arcanists are never really stated to go through a similar process, though they look similar so it might be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Near the end of the game, 

Spoiler

Celica becomes a witch after her soul is offered to Duma, and it's heavily implied the same was going to happen to Alm right after. Whether or not he would become a 'witch' or arcanist is unknown, sadly.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spoiler

It's not clear why men and women are treated differently in the Duma Faithful, but witches and arcanists are distinct. Witches (all female) are said to have sacrificed their souls in order to obtain great magical power. This turns them into barely sentient husks that are more like puppets than individuals. We see this with Sonya's sisters whom Jedah sacrificed (by his account, they gave their souls willingly) to get more power. There is the witch Nuibaba who seems to have retained her soul but she made her pact with a demon, Medusa, so it could work differently than the pacts with Duma himself. Arcanists (all men) have the same blueish skin but unlike witches, they retain their own wills.

 

Edited by NekoKnight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Duma is sexist or something like that. It's probably along the same lines of like Ye Olde Thought Processe of women have like innate purity to give up or some thing like that. I feel like the gender differences in this game are mostly from it being a remake though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Selena4Lyfe said:

Taking all bets on how long it'll take for Tumblr to blow up about the barely-sentient woman witches answering to the clearly conscious-superior male arcanists.

Cis blue male scum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the closest male counterpart to witches in this game are the various undead foes, but their souls aren't given to Duma.

Spoiler

Alternatively, Berkut sort of fits that bill in a more metaphorical sense.

If Alm was defeated by "Witch" Celica, we would have seen him befall the same fate as her.

In any event, in folklore the male counterpart to a witch is a warlock.  However, it seems that Rigel strictly sacrifices women.  We don't know the reason behind this aside from the obvious excuse of the writers wanting there to be as many damsels in distress as humanly possible, but it could either be because Duma specifically requires the souls of women for the most part, Rigel/the Duma Faithful are sexist, the women are less capable of defending themselves (because of the former reason, mind you; they probably don't train female soldiers), or a combination of all these.

For those last two reasons, you might point to Nuibaba, but she seems to be a very unique case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean that can still fall in the realm of sexism though. If a woman can prove she's "as strong as a man" (eugh.) she's likely to be taken seriously. So that makes sense with respect to Nuibaba because she's incredibly powerful.

 

Come to think of it, there aren't even any female generic enemies outside of witches. This isn't really uncommon in Fire Emblem games for classes that share gender, but there are usually at least Pegasus Knights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/25/2017 at 9:07 AM, Umbran Darros said:

Come to think of it, there aren't even any female generic enemies outside of witches. This isn't really uncommon in Fire Emblem games for classes that share gender, but there are usually at least Pegasus Knights.

 

Spoiler

There's at least one female priestess and a few female villagers in Thabes as well.

Edited by CriticalMiss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, CriticalMiss said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

There's at least one female priestess and a few female villagers in Thabes as well.

Interesting, but

isn't that army some sort of undead/ethereal type of deal? I mean this isn't as much of the same idea as Duma Faithful or Rigel not using women among their ranks other than Nuibaba and witches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Umbran Darros said:

Interesting, but

  Reveal hidden contents

isn't that army some sort of undead/ethereal type of deal? I mean this isn't as much of the same idea as Duma Faithful or Rigel not using women among their ranks other than Nuibaba and witches.

 

Spoiler

Yeah, you're right about it being an undead/ethereal thing. The Priestess I mentioned is in the Fire Dragon fight on the 5th floor, and I think she's a Specter (I could be wrong though). The Villagers start appearing in Floor 6, which is the first floor of Forneus's sealed workshop. That might imply that they were subjects for his tests to create undead armies. I think you're also right about Rigel and the Duma Faithful only having male soldiers outside of Witches and Nuibaba. It's disappointing, but, as you said before, unfortunately not uncommon in FE. Hopefully FE Switch will have more generic female enemies.

EDIT:

Spoiler

I just wanted to correct something I said earlier. I think there is also a Priestess at the start of the battle with The Creation in addition to the Priestess in the Fire Dragon battle.

 

Edited by CriticalMiss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Witches are only female. I know not why, but that simply seems to be the case.

However, there are a couple of males who seem to share a similar fate, I think. In the final battle, you face off against numerous enemies (e.g. Cerberus, Hades, Aurum, etc.) who aren't Arcanists or Cantors, but share the same purple skin and dead eyes as Witches. While I believe it's not explained who these characters are (I haven't beaten the final level yet), it seems reasonable to assume that they went through the same/similar ritual as Witches go through to receive more power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Witch is just used to describe a term of a female spell caster typically. No different in this spot to be honest, I am pretty sure Arcanists are the same thing just male. Typically the term for a "Male Witch" is a Warlock though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jedah is stated to have gained his "unearthly appearance" from being reborn with Marla and Hestia's sacrifice.

Many of the Duma faithful bosses, including Arcanists, Witches, and Cantors, do drone the same mantra as in a trance in the original. This does suggest Arcanists and Cantors of the Duma Faithful have lost humanity just like their witch counterparts.

Edited by Emperor Hardin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/25/2017 at 6:07 AM, Umbran Darros said:

I mean that can still fall in the realm of sexism though. If a woman can prove she's "as strong as a man" (eugh.) she's likely to be taken seriously. So that makes sense with respect to Nuibaba because she's incredibly powerful.

 

Come to think of it, there aren't even any female generic enemies outside of witches. This isn't really uncommon in Fire Emblem games for classes that share gender, but there are usually at least Pegasus Knights.

 

On 7/28/2017 at 7:45 AM, Umbran Darros said:

Interesting, but

  Hide contents

isn't that army some sort of undead/ethereal type of deal? I mean this isn't as much of the same idea as Duma Faithful or Rigel not using women among their ranks other than Nuibaba and witches.

 

To my knowledge, the enemy can't use Pegasus Knights in the original because they have gargoyles which share the data of Pegasus Knights. Same with Arcanists and Male Mages, as well as Witches and Female Mage.

Notice Sonya is a witch when she's an enemy, then a mage when she's playable?

EDIT: Double post mistake

Edited by Emperor Hardin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...