bethany81707 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 A friend of mine with only passing familiarity with Echoes wants to explore witches in the Fates universe, and has asked if there is some gender limitation to the witch process in-universe. It occurs to me I have no idea myself- I know witches are female-only, but I don't recall the game ever explaining why, or if Arcanists can be considered male witches in the plot department. Is it just because, or is there some reason for witches to be female-only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 witches are girls, proving that, in fact, girls are better, thank you very much this is my dissertation for philosophy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 hour ago, phineas81707 said: A friend of mine with only passing familiarity with Echoes wants to explore witches in the Fates universe, and has asked if there is some gender limitation to the witch process in-universe. It occurs to me I have no idea myself- I know witches are female-only, but I don't recall the game ever explaining why, or if Arcanists can be considered male witches in the plot department. Is it just because, or is there some reason for witches to be female-only? In game Witches are described as being women who have sacrificed their soul to Duma in exchange for power. Arcanists are never really stated to go through a similar process, though they look similar so it might be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperyena Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Near the end of the game, Spoiler Celica becomes a witch after her soul is offered to Duma, and it's heavily implied the same was going to happen to Alm right after. Whether or not he would become a 'witch' or arcanist is unknown, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Spoiler It's not clear why men and women are treated differently in the Duma Faithful, but witches and arcanists are distinct. Witches (all female) are said to have sacrificed their souls in order to obtain great magical power. This turns them into barely sentient husks that are more like puppets than individuals. We see this with Sonya's sisters whom Jedah sacrificed (by his account, they gave their souls willingly) to get more power. There is the witch Nuibaba who seems to have retained her soul but she made her pact with a demon, Medusa, so it could work differently than the pacts with Duma himself. Arcanists (all men) have the same blueish skin but unlike witches, they retain their own wills. Edited July 20, 2017 by NekoKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Duma is sexist or something like that. It's probably along the same lines of like Ye Olde Thought Processe of women have like innate purity to give up or some thing like that. I feel like the gender differences in this game are mostly from it being a remake though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selena4Lyfe Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Taking all bets on how long it'll take for Tumblr to blow up about the barely-sentient woman witches answering to the clearly conscious-superior male arcanists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Karnage Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 women can't be trusted with magic, hell they run right into archers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 13 hours ago, Selena4Lyfe said: Taking all bets on how long it'll take for Tumblr to blow up about the barely-sentient woman witches answering to the clearly conscious-superior male arcanists. Cis blue male scum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ertrick36 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 I think the closest male counterpart to witches in this game are the various undead foes, but their souls aren't given to Duma. Spoiler Alternatively, Berkut sort of fits that bill in a more metaphorical sense. If Alm was defeated by "Witch" Celica, we would have seen him befall the same fate as her. In any event, in folklore the male counterpart to a witch is a warlock. However, it seems that Rigel strictly sacrifices women. We don't know the reason behind this aside from the obvious excuse of the writers wanting there to be as many damsels in distress as humanly possible, but it could either be because Duma specifically requires the souls of women for the most part, Rigel/the Duma Faithful are sexist, the women are less capable of defending themselves (because of the former reason, mind you; they probably don't train female soldiers), or a combination of all these. For those last two reasons, you might point to Nuibaba, but she seems to be a very unique case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I mean that can still fall in the realm of sexism though. If a woman can prove she's "as strong as a man" (eugh.) she's likely to be taken seriously. So that makes sense with respect to Nuibaba because she's incredibly powerful. Come to think of it, there aren't even any female generic enemies outside of witches. This isn't really uncommon in Fire Emblem games for classes that share gender, but there are usually at least Pegasus Knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriticalMiss Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) On 7/25/2017 at 9:07 AM, Umbran Darros said: Come to think of it, there aren't even any female generic enemies outside of witches. This isn't really uncommon in Fire Emblem games for classes that share gender, but there are usually at least Pegasus Knights. Spoiler There's at least one female priestess and a few female villagers in Thabes as well. Edited July 28, 2017 by CriticalMiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 12 hours ago, CriticalMiss said: Reveal hidden contents There's at least one female priestess and a few female villagers in Thabes as well. Interesting, but isn't that army some sort of undead/ethereal type of deal? I mean this isn't as much of the same idea as Duma Faithful or Rigel not using women among their ranks other than Nuibaba and witches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriticalMiss Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Umbran Darros said: Interesting, but Reveal hidden contents isn't that army some sort of undead/ethereal type of deal? I mean this isn't as much of the same idea as Duma Faithful or Rigel not using women among their ranks other than Nuibaba and witches. Spoiler Yeah, you're right about it being an undead/ethereal thing. The Priestess I mentioned is in the Fire Dragon fight on the 5th floor, and I think she's a Specter (I could be wrong though). The Villagers start appearing in Floor 6, which is the first floor of Forneus's sealed workshop. That might imply that they were subjects for his tests to create undead armies. I think you're also right about Rigel and the Duma Faithful only having male soldiers outside of Witches and Nuibaba. It's disappointing, but, as you said before, unfortunately not uncommon in FE. Hopefully FE Switch will have more generic female enemies. EDIT: Spoiler I just wanted to correct something I said earlier. I think there is also a Priestess at the start of the battle with The Creation in addition to the Priestess in the Fire Dragon battle. Edited July 28, 2017 by CriticalMiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Glacies Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I think Witches are only female. I know not why, but that simply seems to be the case. However, there are a couple of males who seem to share a similar fate, I think. In the final battle, you face off against numerous enemies (e.g. Cerberus, Hades, Aurum, etc.) who aren't Arcanists or Cantors, but share the same purple skin and dead eyes as Witches. While I believe it's not explained who these characters are (I haven't beaten the final level yet), it seems reasonable to assume that they went through the same/similar ritual as Witches go through to receive more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noni Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I always assumed, that the witches, by giving up their souls to Duma, became something like his wives. So they're only female, cause Duma is hetero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolvir Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Witch is just used to describe a term of a female spell caster typically. No different in this spot to be honest, I am pretty sure Arcanists are the same thing just male. Typically the term for a "Male Witch" is a Warlock though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) Jedah is stated to have gained his "unearthly appearance" from being reborn with Marla and Hestia's sacrifice. Many of the Duma faithful bosses, including Arcanists, Witches, and Cantors, do drone the same mantra as in a trance in the original. This does suggest Arcanists and Cantors of the Duma Faithful have lost humanity just like their witch counterparts. Edited August 10, 2017 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) On 7/25/2017 at 6:07 AM, Umbran Darros said: I mean that can still fall in the realm of sexism though. If a woman can prove she's "as strong as a man" (eugh.) she's likely to be taken seriously. So that makes sense with respect to Nuibaba because she's incredibly powerful. Come to think of it, there aren't even any female generic enemies outside of witches. This isn't really uncommon in Fire Emblem games for classes that share gender, but there are usually at least Pegasus Knights. On 7/28/2017 at 7:45 AM, Umbran Darros said: Interesting, but Hide contents isn't that army some sort of undead/ethereal type of deal? I mean this isn't as much of the same idea as Duma Faithful or Rigel not using women among their ranks other than Nuibaba and witches. To my knowledge, the enemy can't use Pegasus Knights in the original because they have gargoyles which share the data of Pegasus Knights. Same with Arcanists and Male Mages, as well as Witches and Female Mage. Notice Sonya is a witch when she's an enemy, then a mage when she's playable? EDIT: Double post mistake Edited August 10, 2017 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alm(mond) Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 i would assume its because generally speaking witches refer to a female who uses magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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