Could Sonic work with a "more-mature" story?

[Junkhead]

I realise I've strayed a ton away from the series ever since I was younger. While it could just as easily be me simply getting older, I don't think it's so much the case.

To begin with, the series isn't really known for amazing plot points and all. I get that. However, it does really help people connect with the story and the characters. You play for the gameplay, and most likely stay for the rest. For example, even now, I can still enjoy SA1, 2 and Heroes' plot. You can easily correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I could, the series seemed to have taken a more "child-friendly" turn? Like, when you look at Boom, for example. Didn't even play the games, but it just looks a little too "cartoony" for my tastes. Another good plot example would be '06, even if the game didn't get good criticism.

 

By the way, I'd also like to hear of other Sonic games with similiar plot points.

[Jedi]

People tend to like the darker plotlines in the comics, but games people would rather it stay cartoony. 

Thats just my general interaction with the fanbase on the matter.

[Ronnie]

SA2's story always stuck out to me. Not because it was any good but because I grew up playing it as a kid and it was my reason for wanting a Gamecube in the first place. The overall grittiness of the soundtrack just kinda made some scenes very cool like when Eggman launched Sonic off the ship or when Sonic first meets Shadow. It would be cool to see another story that has the same kind of atmosphere as SA2 except y'know, better written.

I also enjoyed Color's simplistic approach where it's just Eggman vs Sonic. I think Sonic should be no more dark or mature than SA2. Just look at Shadow the Hedgehog, brrrrr.

[Junkhead]

I wonder how they could pull off a StH while keeping the "dark" tone and not going into cheesy territory.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I have no experience with Boom games or tv show, but I did play through Lost World, and a lot of scenes generally felt like they were written for a pre-teenage audience. Like this scene with Zazz. On the other hand, the Dreamcast/Gamecube era had it's fair share of ridiculous scenes too. I have friends that are always willing to quote this scene with me whenever the subject of Shadow comes up. As well as a million references to dialogue in Shadow the Hedgehog.

The only mature thing I ever envisioned them doing in a Sonic game is to kill the cast. Every side character axed in the first hour as Eggman finally wins at the beginning of a game. I thought this would be what they were building up to with the first Sonic 2017 teaser, but nope, they're all alive and well. At the end of the day, Sonic tends to be at its worst when attempting to be overly serious. In the Dreamcast era, this resulted in a handful of unintentionally brilliant moments that we joke about now, but I think they ought to just make dialogue and characters as goofy as they can. Maybe cling to the old 90s attitude for Sonic rather than write him and every other protagonist to be the most serious character in the room. This series feels extremely light on the self-referential humor too.

[Ronnie]

6 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

On the other hand, the Dreamcast/Gamecube era had it's fair share of ridiculous scenes too. I have friends that are always willing to quote this scene with me whenever the subject of Shadow comes up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU72XlMODgI

A youtuber recreated that scene and it shows a good indication that the scene is actually very cool. It's just the Dreamcast's limitations and awkward mocap made the scene a laughable discussion across the fanbase lol.

[Captain Karnage]

I'm worried of what Deviant art would create out of that mess

and Sonic 06 

Sonic 06 

[Junkhead]

9 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

I have no experience with Boom games or tv show, but I did play through Lost World, and a lot of scenes generally felt like they were written for a pre-teenage audience. Like this scene with Zazz. On the other hand, the Dreamcast/Gamecube era had it's fair share of ridiculous scenes too. I have friends that are always willing to quote this scene with me whenever the subject of Shadow comes up. As well as a million references to dialogue in Shadow the Hedgehog.

I literally don't get why they would. It's nowhere as silly as the things we've been getting from things like Boom (even if it's not the best example, I'm not even bashing on it). Too cartoony and goofy, and I don't see that in SA1 & 2. I mean, it's clearly not aimed towards adult, but that doesn't mean it's on the latter's level either. It's one of those trends people seem to think it's funny to mock the things we've grown up with. lol

Talking about that one recreated scene. Right there. That's what they're doing. I don't know, they make them exaggerately "happy-go-lucky" over-expressive? You don't have to be all serious and all to keep a character like that running.

[maybe]

sonic is fun when he's not serious 

a "more mature" story could definitely "work" if it was done well enough, but there's really not much reason for it. the characters are much better suited to fun, light stuff than serious things. i know I sure as hell wouldn't be able to take sonic seriously

[Zera]

I find that when the Sonic games try to be "dark, mature, and edgy", they instead become laughably bad stories that are joked about for years to come. And that's not a bad thing. Unless the game also sucks, like Sonic 06. Then it is definitely a bad thing.

[Junkhead]

You're misunderstanding. Sonic nor the characters have to have said kind of personalities. In other words, they should make more SA-like games to appeal to the audience (at least in terms of story and vice-versa).

[Ronnie]

50 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

Talking about that one recreated scene. Right there. That's what they're doing. I don't know, they make them exaggerately "happy-go-lucky" over-expressive? You don't have to be all serious and all to keep a character like that running.

So when you say you aren't into newer Sonic's cartoony approach, you mean like the way they move? How they're all bouncy like a Disney animated character?

I'm not really following your second sentence however.

[Junkhead]

Pretty much. As for that last part, I'm saying it doesn't need to be one extreme or the other. Characters can keep their personalities without being exaggerated about it, and more-so in regards to their gestures.

[Slumber]

No. Christ no. He's a stupid blue hedgehog that eats chili dogs and runs fast. 

Shadow the Hedgehog is "Edgy Sonic", and he's one of the dumbest things to come out of video games. Ever. 

Stick to goofy shit. Don't try to make Sonic something it isn't. They've tried that before, and it ended up with Sonic nearly boning a human. 

SatAM wasn't bad, but that was before the franchise had so much baggage. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Slumber

[Flee Fleet!]

I wouldn't mind a "dark mature story" if they do it right, while also maintaining everyone's personality.

But I'm pretty sure it will just end up looking goofy. Sonic just feels like one of those series that works better with a more light hearted story (with some serious moments, but you know, not serious all the time).

 

[henrymidfields]

It doesn't necessarily have to have a dark mature story, though I appreciate their bold decision to make 2006's story and, frankly, I would like to play a remake that is actually finished. (There are a number of people, both here and in Bulbagarden with similar opinions.) On the other hand, they could add more backstories to the different characters like the developers did for Mario Galaxy, and what they intended to follow up with Mario Galaxy 2 before the inevitable meddling by a certain director. There's no reason why the story should remain simplistic; this is 2017, not 1985, or even 1995.

[Rapier]

I prefer stories like SA1 and SA2. They were not childish or mature, but something aimed for teens (thus, something in between?), which is the public Sonic was targeted for in the first place. Ideally, I think that Sonic games should try to keep it simple, straightforward and coherent. A story like Generations is good enough (although it lacked references for old fans' nostalgic pleasure, unfortunately).

The Sonics we have which had dark mature stories are not good examples of how dark mature stories don't work. They didn't work because the writing was bad, not because such stories don't work. Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) could've been a lot better if the "revolutionary" multiple paths system didn't make him seem like an Alzheimers patient with a bipolarity disorder who just fled from a clinic. It is poorly structured, we have no idea how those locations match with each other, Shadow warps around doing quests that might contradict his whole persona if you switch from the Hero side to the Dark side, and I'm not sure if I like the background they gave to Shadow or Black Doom's concept. Also why does he have a gun and a bike ffs

But there are things they did well in that game. Shadow is actually coherent when you do the Neutral route or when you stick to one path. I personally like the ending where he goes through a stage full of clones, then Eggman convinces him that he is not the original, but a rogue creation of his who thinks he is the real deal.

If there is something we can notice from the darker Sonic games' errors, it is that they try to be too complex and fail at it. The aforementioned paths system was a big mistake, both from a gameplay perspective and a story perspective. If they had concentrated in three paths, its story could've been much more coherent. Sonic 06 was also a tryhard with the whole apocalypse thing and not!Trunks + Blaze going back in time to avoid it. I don't remember much, other than Sonic kissing Elise in the end, which is stupid, so I can't say much else about the game's story (it had interesting elements that I must recognize).

[Zera]

2 hours ago, Rapier said:

Also why does he have a gun and a bike ffs

According to the Sonic wiki, Shadow the Hedgehog was Sonic Team's response to emails asking for guns in a Sonic game (but I haven't found the source for this).

They had been wanting to make a shooter game for some time, and decided that Shadow's character was best suited for one.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Rapier said:

But there are things they did well in that game. Shadow is actually coherent when you do the Neutral route or when you stick to one path. I personally like the ending where he goes through a stage full of clones, then Eggman convinces him that he is not the original, but a rogue creation of his who thinks he is the real deal.

If there is something we can notice from the darker Sonic games' errors, it is that they try to be too complex and fail at it. The aforementioned paths system was a big mistake, both from a gameplay perspective and a story perspective. If they had concentrated in three paths, its story could've been much more coherent.

Haven't played Shadow in years, but I do recall disliking how enemies you're "allied" with would still attack you and that'd you'd have to destroy them sometimes to advance (mostly because this negatively impacts your score and thus rank). Though I know that with the ability to switch allegiances at any time would have made non-aggression broken.

The base idea of routes wasn't bad for Shadow, but it was as you point out very flawed. Perhaps it'd have been better if you had to pick one of the five "branches", and be stuck playing that entire branch, but the sum total of your heroic/chaotic/neutral actions would affect what the ending outcome of that branch would be. Likewise, how you ended the one mission would affect your entrance on the next- e.g. side with Sonic on one mission, and you'll enter the next displaying an interest in helping the heroes as the opening flavor text, whereas had you helped Black Doom, you'd have flavor text showing your interest in helping him.

[Rapier]

On 26/07/2017 at 0:33 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Haven't played Shadow in years, but I do recall disliking how enemies you're "allied" with would still attack you and that'd you'd have to destroy them sometimes to advance (mostly because this negatively impacts your score and thus rank). Though I know that with the ability to switch allegiances at any time would have made non-aggression broken.

The base idea of routes wasn't bad for Shadow, but it was as you point out very flawed. Perhaps it'd have been better if you had to pick one of the five "branches", and be stuck playing that entire branch, but the sum total of your heroic/chaotic/neutral actions would affect what the ending outcome of that branch would be. Likewise, how you ended the one mission would affect your entrance on the next- e.g. side with Sonic on one mission, and you'll enter the next displaying an interest in helping the heroes as the opening flavor text, whereas had you helped Black Doom, you'd have flavor text showing your interest in helping him.

I was talking about the story, so I intentionally omitted that flaw in the gameplay (which I could spend three paragraphs talking about).

Also, for the second paragraph, that's what happens during the early game. If the developers hadn't tried to make a complex faux Visual Novel-esque Sonic game, maybe it'd have worked. It tried to be more ambitious than any Visual Novel had ever been and they failed miserably for it. Which is why I still defend that simplicity and coherence are kings.