Are DLC Classes Supposed to Be Used after Level 20?

[starburst]

I know that one can use the DLC classes on units at any level, and some characters (like Odin) really benefit from an early class-change right upon recruitment. But I have also felt that these early class-changes (promotions) break the game's difficulty (Conquest Hard Classic.)


I have class-changed (promoted) Odin to Grandmaster right after his recruitment at Chapter 8, and he had more 'stat points' at level 5 than Corrin, Effie or Silas at level 11 at that chapter. Granted, if Effie or Silas had ten more 'points' spread in Magic or Luck, it would not make them better units, but almost every point gained by Grandmaster Odin is useful.
By Chapter 13 or so, Grandmaster Odin was overpowered and I decided to quit the campaign and continue an earlier save.

On another campaign, I class-changed (promoted) Silas to Lodestar after chapter 8 of Conquest, and at Chapter 10 he could solo the left side of the map. I replayed the map, and he could almost solo the centre-right advances (where I usually have to deploy Corrin paired up with Effie.) I felt that it was broken and continued a save before his promotion.

I do over-level support users, like Elise or Azura, but they do not break the game. I mainly over-level them to keep them safe and not to worry about them later. For example, I tend to class-change Elise (to Strategist) at level 19 (or when her Magic caps) before Chapter 10. And I usually level up Azura to level 10 in Chapter 5, and till level 15-18 in Chapter 9. Both are overpowered, but they do not break the game, they simply do not die easily, and it saves me a reset on difficult maps.


I have never used a DLC Seal at level 20 and my current campaign is at chapter 11 (still far from class-changing.) Does it work more similarly to a normal promotion, or are the gains totally useless at that point?

What do you guys think about it? How do you manage your DLC classes?

Edited July 21, 2017 by starburst

[Seafarer]

Well, the DLC classes are all special classes, so their stats should be pretty comparable to having a promoted unit that early on. It's similar to using an early Heart Seal on Jakob for Paladin - it'll make the early game much easier, then level off stat-wise as you promote your other units. In Conquest especially, the lategame should be challenging enough regardless of when you used the DLC seal.

Personally, I use the DLC seals as free Master Seals, since actual Master Seals can be in short supply early on. Witch!Sakura is basically my MVP in Birthright these days because of it.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I always wait until for a unit if unpromoted to hit level 20 before using a DLC class item. Using them early lets you have the cake of not gimping a unit out of all their available level ups, and eat it too and get an early immediate power boost.

Even if you use the items early, if you're playing on Hard or Lunatic, the combat EXP curve  will keep that unit from getting so ahead in leveling that they'd overpower enemies later in the game. And once enemies promote, the stat lead of early promotion bonuses will be mitigated. Add in enemy staff and skill use, and you should still find the mid and late games challenging.

[starburst]

4 minutes ago, Seafarer said:

Personally, I use the DLC seals as free Master Seals, since actual Master Seals can be in short supply early on. Witch!Sakura is basically my MVP in Birthright these days because of it.

I concur. For example, when playing as female Corrin there are three characters who really want to use an early Heart Seal: Jakob, Odin and Mozu. But there is only one Heart Seal available at the store and one more dropped by Haitaka, which forces you to decide whom to 'sacrifice.' A Grandmaster or a Dread Fighter Seal would mitigate this problem.

 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I always wait until for a unit if unpromoted to hit level 20 before using a DLC class item [...]

Even if you use the items early, if you're playing on Hard or Lunatic, the combat EXP curve  will keep that unit from getting so ahead in leveling that they'd overpower enemies later in the game [...]

I think that this is what I will do this time; wait until level 20 to use a DLC Seal. This way the stat gains will not be as notable as they are in the first chapters.

[kcirrot]

Like literally everything about Fates, you have to find your own tolerance for difficulty v. fun. 

I usually reclass Sakura and Elise to witch immediately, because I hate leveling no-attack healers.  Except for their lack of skill, they become enormously powerful, but I just don't enjoy leveling healers, but I do enjoy those characters.  So any loss of difficulty is made up by the fun I get from using them early.

[sirmola]

On 7/21/2017 at 4:09 PM, starburst said:

I concur. For example, when playing as female Corrin there are three characters who really want to use an early Heart Seal: Jakob, Odin and Mozu. But there is only one Heart Seal available at the store and one more dropped by Haitaka, which forces you to decide whom to 'sacrifice.' A Grandmaster or a Dread Fighter Seal would mitigate this problem.

I usualy solve that problem by going to other people's high level my castles, and buying heart seals from their level 3 shops (as a reminder, you can buy anything from such a shop as long as that shop level has it in unlimited quantity. You can also use forges in other peopl'es may castles, which is the only way to forge hoshido weapons in conquest and nohr weapons in birthright, or to get realy high level forges early. There is no limit in how many my castles you can visit per day.

one advantage of being in a non-promoting class (including dlc classes, dancer, and the "lancer" class on generics only.) is that you get an extra level up, because the level up from level 20 to level 21 counts as an actual level up, with actual level up gains (as opposed to the promotion growths that are build into the bases of dlc classes anyway.

Of course, there is also the fact that unpromoted characters tend to be "stuck" with b weapon ranks, and "waste" wexp. dlc classes don't have this problem.

[starburst]

I played Chapters 8-12 of Conquest Hard Classic a couple of times to try early promotions into different DLC classes.

Chapter 8 is a joke if Dread Fighter Odin is present, for he can basically solo the entire map. Even though Odin joins as an under-levelled unit, the stats gains provided by the Dread Scroll are ridiculously high: Level 5 Dread Fighter Odin has better, higher stats than any other party member, including level 11 Corrin.
I need to try Grandmaster Odin again.

In Chapters 10-12, Witch Ophelia (Felicia's daughter) was frail, as expected, but could kill any unit in one attack.
Ophelia's own magic growths and high critical hit rate may have clouded my perception of how powerful the Witch class is, because Witch Felicia or Witch Elise may not be as powerful (because of a lack of magic or skill or critical hit rate). Yet Witch Ophelia was a walking atomic bomb and I guess that other magic-oriented units will perform similarly as Witches.
I do prefer the appearance of Dark Mage and Sorcerer over Witch, though.

I class changed Effie to a Great Lord right after she attained level 10, and it was a fun ride. The speed and skill gains complemented her already high strength and defence, but I had to rethink my strategies because she tanked less and, more importantly, she gave completely different pair-up bonuses.
Oh!, and watching her dodge countless attacks of the berserker in Anna's recruitment (right after Chapter 8) was a first-time experience.

Lastly, I class changed Corrin to a Vanguard before Chapter 10, and I really liked the class. He already had a +Speed -Magic build with the idea of turning him into a Hero, but I may just use him as a Vanguard instead. I really wanted to use axes early in the game, but most options implied losing access to Yato. Vanguard addresses this issue, his pair-up bonus and looks are great, and the class did not alter my strategies for those chapters.

I did not try Dark Falcon, and I had already decided that Xander would be a Lodestar and Leo, a Grandmaster. But I did not play that far.

Of the four DLC classes that I tried, I think that
· Dread Fighter (Odin) is just broken.
· Witch (Ophelia) is overpowered, but did not play long enough to see if it was indeed broken.
· Great Lord (Effie) and Vanguard (Corrin) felt powerful but not broken, and enemies in further chapters may be as difficult to deal with as if I were using normal, non-DLC classes.

Edited September 13, 2017 by starburst